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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, this is lengthy – 12 years of marriage, my sanity, and the lifestyle of 3 daughters in the balance. Please take a moment to read this. I’m up for any advice. I started out being sappy, needy, and pathetic with my pleading to my wife. I’ve implemented the 180, which seems to be going OK. So, here it is – soak it up.

• My wife and I are in our 30s
• Separated (not legally) and moved to an apartment
• Married 12 years
• 3 daughters
• Wife and daughters live in our house
• We have successful careers that consume a lot of time
• I am somewhat controlling, stubborn, and tidy. Basically, I like things my way
• She is somewhat stubborn, outgoing, dangerously flirty with men, and very untidy
• For the past 3 years, I’ve allowed myself to drift away from my main responsibility and priorities: My wife and daughters
• For many years, my wife has gotten involved in a ton of fundraisers and community, volunteer activities


Right now, we’ve been separated for 3 weeks. I’ve been in my apartment for less than one week. We’ve discussed our issues in depth, and she said she is unhappy, needs space, needs to find herself, and does not know if she want to continue our marriage. Sound familiar? She said she has felt for years that she has changed into a different person; she feels she is always stressed out and has worked too hard to make me happy, which has caused to her be a “different person.” We married in our early 20’s while she was in her last semester of college.

She is constantly busy. She spends most of her free time volunteering in community activities and fundraisers, surfing Facebook, or going out with friends. I spend too much time at work. Some of our biggest arguments have been over her dangerous flirtation with men. This is my point of view on that issue: She is an incredibly outgoing, smiley person – she poops rainbows and sees bubbles everywhere. She is in constant, planned contact with other men, regularly has lunch dates with other men (friends, co-workers) and spends hours a day texting other male “friends.”

Over the years, I’ve had to confront her about the issue because I found that the other men would make comments to her that made me feel they were trying to “creep” over to her. Basically, she flirts enough that men in the past have likely felt they could have sex with her. Those feelings were validated after I confronted one of the men. She says this is not the case, that she is simply flirty with everyone, and that I should trust she would never let herself do anything with another man. She doesn’t think this should be an issue and to me feels like a lack of respect and loyalty to our marriage.

Overall, she says we owe it to ourselves to see if “we” can be happy elsewhere, that we should spend time apart and date others. Here is the disturbing part: She does know if she is willing to go to couples counseling, does not know if she is willing to make some changes in the way she does things (flirt heavily with men – constant contact with other men), and does not want to stop the non-stop activities in which she’s involved.

I told her I am willing to make changes in the way I’ve done things and would like us to go to counseling so a neutral party could offer some suggestions. I checked on things. I know she’s been in constant contact with two men – even before I was out the door. One is a co-worker; the other is someone she has been friends with for years. When I say constant contact, I mean hundreds of texts each day – from early morning to late at night. More than likely an EA that could lead to a PA. She says this separation is tough on her, yet she has not confided heavily on close friends or family.

I haven’t confronted her on this issue yet. I’m waiting patiently because I am extremely angry right now and don’t want to do or say something I’ll later regret. I’m biding my time for the right moment. I am in individual counseling with two different counselors and have set up a meeting with an attorney so that I can be prepared.

We have separated our finances. We are debt-free other than her student loans she is paying. We have done a great job with the children and ensuring they are getting as much attention from us as possible.

LONG STORY short, I tired of the bull****. She says she needs time to herself, yet all of her time has been going to other men. I won’t be the guy that sits around waiting for her to make up her mind by “finding herself” while she is having an EA or possibly PA with someone else. Perhaps it is possible that she just needs some attention right now and is doing a lot of talking with these men for that much desired attention. It’s possible she is already emotionally attached to them. I don’t know.

She told me she wants to date other men (“casual dates”) in order to give herself some clarity on how she feels about our relationship and that she will go “where her path leads” her. I feel that if she does date OM before trying to work on her/our issues, it will become extremely difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile.

I’ve done a pretty good job staying busy – working out, spending time with the kiddos, friends, and other activities. I don’t have the desire to date others. I know what I want – to mend the relationship with my wife. But, right now I have no control over what she does and she doesn’t want me to “check up” on her because she said she has defined herself as a single person leading a life of her own. Sounds to me like she just wants her cake and to be able to eat it too. It’s taken a lot of patience in the past 3 weeks to not file for divorce. I’ll update you all as I can.

OK – LAST THING: She said the more I speak about us trying to put some parameters or expectations on our separation, the more it makes her feel I am trying to "control" everything. It puts too much pressure on her and she simply needs "space." I've seen those words on a lot of forums lately!

She wants to do what she wants, when she wants, and how she wants without any accountability. I can't force her to work with me on this issue, but she knows how I feel about her being "single" while still legally married. I won't take much for me be done with everything, as she knows I won't be plan C.
 

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Sit back and relax ( if you're willing to forgive her "dates" ) . She'll be back within a year .

Do 180 and more . Improve your self , learn about the marriage more in depth . Get in shape .
 

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Don't let her have her cake and eat it too.

You are her plan B. Are you OK with that?

She is already sleeping with other men or is planning to do so soon.

Give her a choice. She drops the OM and enters MC with you.

If she says No? File for D and go dark except for the kids.

You will never nice her out of this.

Are you paying her to leave you?
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Sit back and relax ( if you're willing to forgive her "dates" ) . She'll be back within a year .

Do 180 and more . Improve your self , learn about the marriage more in depth . Get in shape .
Sure. He should keep giving her a place to wipe her feet.
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Sure. He should keep giving her a place to wipe her feet.
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You say he is Plan B , I say " if he wants to forgive her " , any difference ?

He is her Plan B obviously , the question is does he wanna be that ?

Woman with 3 kids in her 30s , good luck to find a serious guy if you know what I mean. This is why I believe she'll be back if he wants to take her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Right now, I cant’ prove what she’s doing. I simply know she has been in constant contact with OM through text messages – several hundred over a weekend. Don’t know the content, and she recently changed the settings her phone so that I cannot see a lot of her activity (iMessage).

As of now, I have trust issues with her. She doesn’t seem to respect the fundamental issue of not flirting with other men to the point they believe a spark exists. She’s a flirty woman – always has been. I know nothing will change this part of her personality, but she has to realize the problems it causes.

I’ve started the 180 and so far it is helping me get along. I’ve stopped checking in on her activities and plan to leave it be. Her career allows her to make her own schedule, so trying to figure things out will only drive me mad! The difficult part about this is not knowing. I don’t want to jump the gun too soon if what she is doing is simply trying to get attention from other men and will, with time, realize she wants to reconcile. But, I know to trust my intuition on things, and I feel all the signs point to her already having gotten involved with someone. You know, I’ve heard friends who have gone through their spouses EA/PA and they all tell me they never thought it could happen to them. I felt the same way, but now know how it can happen to anyone.

I also have my girls to think about. If she’s not doing anything we can’t get past, and I jump the gun with the big D out of anger, then the livelihood of our girls will be forever changed. I don’t know. Right now, I’m angry and confused. She wants space and I’m giving it to her. We text a couple times a day, but it is centered on the kids – no personal talk.

I know the 180 recommends waiting for the other person to approach me about relationship talk. My wife is stubborn. How long should I wait to see if she is willing to go through counseling? Also, she has mentioned the desire for us to go on casual dates LATER. I told her I would not do this if she was dating anyone – even if her dates with OM consisted of casual dates to dinner or a movie, etc.

I know my posts are a little long, but the best way for me to vent is to write or talk to close friends and family.

Any thoughts????
 

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Hi sorry you here I assume she was having an affair based upon you referring to a om ?
It sounds like she has checked out of the m to me that being the case then at this time I would
Do like spun mentioned file and go dark she will find out soon enough that the grass is not greener
It also sounds as if she has poor boundaries with males if she does at a later time come to her senses
I would say that based on her inability to have sufficient boundaries then her activities of texting and flirting would need to stop
Or its just a matter of time that you are back here in the same place. If she has had an affair have you exposed it to others like the oms.gr or wife or family members that can reach her? Continue working on yrself and exercising that's great it will help with stress
And yr self esteem let her know that in order to reconcile you would want no contact with other males from her and mc as well as ic
With several kids I believe you mentioned 3 she will find the pickings slim except for the ones that just want to sport fck her

Take care of yr self spend time with yr kids work out develop new or old hobbies and remember you don't have to be anyone's plan b

Good luck
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Dare to Change said:
She says she needs time to herself
This is code for, "I want out of our relationship but I am trying to do this without looking like a bad Mom and also not directly hurt your feelings." For whatever reason, women are not as direct as men and try to minimize the pain up front.

What you need to realize is that she is done but would like to you take all the steps to end the marriage so she does not look bad. Can it be saved? Yes, but only if BOTH of you commit to it.

I got the same line as you and almost moved out. She was done, refused counseling, and eventually left.

Dare to Change said:
For the past 3 years, I’ve allowed myself to drift away from my main responsibility and priorities: My wife and daughters
It takes two to tango and I think you know that she is just as much to blame as you are. Don't assume all the burden on your shoulders and try to be the knight-in-shining-armor for your wife. She is just as much at fault.

Dare to Change said:
Right now, we’ve been separated for 3 weeks. I’ve been in my apartment for less than one week.
Take some of this with a grain of salt, but you need to be thinking about what to do in case your marriage continues to go south.

If you want to have custody of your children when you divorce, you just shot yourself in the foot. It is your home as well as your wife's. If you go to court, you have already set the status quo that it is okay your wife has primary custody since you are good with just up an leaving. I recommend returning and moving into a separate room.

She is 10 steps ahead of you in the process of ending your marriage. Right now she is using the "I need time & space to think" guise to blow smoke and get you to agee to things that look like you are "helping" her get back into the marriage, when in fact they are building her case for court. Don't miss the forest for all the little trees.

I may be a doom sayer, but take a look here and take some steps to protect yourself. It will take a little time but will be worth if you wife never checks back into your marriage.

THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum
 

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I’ve started the 180 and so far it is helping me get along. I’ve stopped checking in on her activities and plan to leave it be. Her career allows her to make her own schedule, so trying to figure things out will only drive me mad! The difficult part about this is not knowing. I don’t want to jump the gun too soon if what she is doing is simply trying to get attention from other men and will, with time, realize she wants to reconcile. But, I know to trust my intuition on things, and I feel all the signs point to her already having gotten involved with someone. You know, I’ve heard friends who have gone through their spouses EA/PA and they all tell me they never thought it could happen to them. I felt the same way, but now know how it can happen to anyone.

I also have my girls to think about. If she’s not doing anything we can’t get past, and I jump the gun with the big D out of anger, then the livelihood of our girls will be forever changed. I don’t know. Right now, I’m angry and confused. She wants space and I’m giving it to her. We text a couple times a day, but it is centered on the kids – no personal talk.

I know the 180 recommends waiting for the other person to approach me about relationship talk. My wife is stubborn. How long should I wait to see if she is willing to go through counseling?
Do not show any ANGER no matter what !! It is hard but reading some books about self confidence will help you allot !!

Do NOT contact her or start the conversations about your marriage at any price !!! Again get some book !

I know it is hard but the right books can set you up in the right mood - to show happiness and calm. NO DRAMA !
It will kill her believe me !



Also, she has mentioned the desire for us to go on casual dates LATER.
Means - lemme first see how is going with the OM, and if it isn't going well I MAY CONSIDER you as a potential date.

You're The Plan B !
 

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I think you wife has it made, hell your not going anywere so why should she change?
What a lucking girl, has her house husband, baby sitter, and bill payer, provider. And she also gets a boytoy to have exciting times with with no strings attached, uses him when ever she wants and when she gets tired of OM she can take a break with out any consequence.

She isn't giving her daughters much of an example, but either are you....stop being a doormate and show your wife some real consequences.

Hopefully she turns a corner and save her marriage.

What the hell are you waiting for? Do you think this is going away anytime soon? Your wife has it made!
 

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Right now, I cant’ prove what she’s doing. I simply know she has been in constant contact with OM through text messages – several hundred over a weekend. Don’t know the content, and she recently changed the settings her phone so that I cannot see a lot of her activity (iMessage).

As of now, I have trust issues with her. She doesn’t seem to respect the fundamental issue of not flirting with other men to the point they believe a spark exists. She’s a flirty woman – always has been. I know nothing will change this part of her personality, but she has to realize the problems it causes.

I’ve started the 180 and so far it is helping me get along. I’ve stopped checking in on her activities and plan to leave it be. Her career allows her to make her own schedule, so trying to figure things out will only drive me mad! The difficult part about this is not knowing. I don’t want to jump the gun too soon if what she is doing is simply trying to get attention from other men and will, with time, realize she wants to reconcile. But, I know to trust my intuition on things, and I feel all the signs point to her already having gotten involved with someone. You know, I’ve heard friends who have gone through their spouses EA/PA and they all tell me they never thought it could happen to them. I felt the same way, but now know how it can happen to anyone.

I also have my girls to think about. If she’s not doing anything we can’t get past, and I jump the gun with the big D out of anger, then the livelihood of our girls will be forever changed. I don’t know. Right now, I’m angry and confused. She wants space and I’m giving it to her. We text a couple times a day, but it is centered on the kids – no personal talk.

I know the 180 recommends waiting for the other person to approach me about relationship talk. My wife is stubborn. How long should I wait to see if she is willing to go through counseling? Also, she has mentioned the desire for us to go on casual dates LATER. I told her I would not do this if she was dating anyone – even if her dates with OM consisted of casual dates to dinner or a movie, etc.

I know my posts are a little long, but the best way for me to vent is to write or talk to close friends and family.

Any thoughts????
You are exactly where I was months ago and where many men on here have been.

As scary and hard as it is, your only chance is to stand up to her once and for all. The reason you are in this situation is because you never have.

She will continue to steam roll you as long as you allow her to get away with it.

Have a good look around this place and you will see what I am talking about.

Are you financing her "single life style"?
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for your input everyone. We are debt free and have separate accounts. She pays the mortgage for our home and all utilities there, while I pay rent and utilities for my apartment. We split the costs of things for our girls (clothes, lunches, etc.) I don’t know for a fact that she is or has been seeing anyone. Looking at the sheer amount of texts, I can only deduce she is getting a lot of attention from another guy. Is she talking about her issues with relationship problems or something else – I don’t know. It’s easy for me to speculate. It’ll come out at some point if she is seeing someone else. I’m tired of thinking about it.

She agreed to move out, but I bit that bullet instead. Her career allows her to make her own schedule, so it is easy for her to take our youngest to school, pick her up afterward, and be home when the other two are done with school. My work schedule is set. That is the only reason I moved. I want the girls to stay in the house and keep as much familiarity as possible.

I’ve taken steps to help myself: reading books, going out with friends, working out, individual counseling (2 therapists), talking with crazy folk such as yourself (just kidding - thank you all by the way). Someone suggested earlier that her intent is to do or say things that would prompt me to file for D – essentially making me the bad guy. I have thought about this too. I plan to give it a little time before making a decision on D. Now, if she is having an P/A, I’ll end things right away.

I feel she has checked out as well. Trust me, I won’t be the alternate. But, I need to be careful not to overreact and plan well. I’m willing to work things out so long as she makes some changes and tries working on “us” before testing the field with other men. We’ll see. Without proof of P/A, I can’t justify to myself or my kids that filing only 3 weeks into this is the right thing to do. Especially if there is a possibility that I am seeing things wrong. It is not easy though, as she has mentioned she believes I should start dating other women myself to see if I can by “happy” with someone else. WTF! This seems like justification to ease herself of guilt if she is or has been engaged in P/A.
 

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It is not easy though, as she has mentioned she believes I should start dating other women myself to see if I can by “happy” with someone else. WTF! This seems like justification to ease herself of guilt if she is or has been engaged in P/A.
In other words "I have a posOM, why don't you get yourself a posOW so that we can call it even steven".
 

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So are you going to sit there in limbo and speculate or are you going to take action. Have you put vars in the house or in her car. Have you put a key logger on her computer. Have you put a GPS on her car? How about a PI? I mean your sitting around doing nothing, you might as well divorce you aren't doing anything else. Why are you here if that's what you want to do?

If she is dating she is cheating, why do you want to be married to her? Move back to your house and tell her to get out.
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Maybe she is or maybe she isn't but if you start spying on her and intruding on her privacy how will that make you feel? If you start spying on your wife, that is a foundation for failure. Marriage can't be based on lying, and spying. If either one of you are lying and spying then the relationship is a bad one and should not be allowed to grow. A house built on a rocky foundation will fall down. It sounds like financially you are already separated. Give her the time she asked for.

I might be the same sucker as you as I am in a very similar situation but I decided to give her the time time she asked for. It has been 2 weeks for us. It sucks but here I am.
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