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Well at 4 am she noticed i wasn't sleeping se we talked and hesitantly she agreed to do counciling. I told her she was either all in with the counciling or no go. i said i cant wait a year to see how you feel about us, we either work towards this now or Lets just end this now and save time. She said no dont i will do the counciling. I also told her that I want to strengthen our spiritual foundation as a couple which is weak also. thanks cc48kel. I didnt want to pull the rip cord just yet. She told me that 3 weeks ago she was ready to end the marriage but since we've been talking and working on this she is not sure thats what she wants. Hopefully the councilor will help her understand the phase she is going through.
Three weeks ago is probably when the actual physical affair started.

Sorry PaulPaul but we here at TAM have seen this play out a thousand times. The general plotline never changes.

Hire a PI to track her and dig up info. It will be the best $1,200 you ever spent in your life.
 

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I understand that you don't want to accept what everyone, for the most part is telling you, but buddy, you really need to.

And like Marc said, of course you are being weak with her, as you should have filed for divorce a long time ago.

If you wanted to spend the time an money, you would find proof of her infidelity, but I guess you are just smarted than everyone, that is why your marriage is going so well.

I won't was your and everyone else's time posting on your thread, because you are so sure that you have everything handled that went to the internet for advice.

BTW, do you see some incongruities in that last statement?


When a woman like your wife is having and affair, going to MC is a complete waste of time and it only serves to make you look like more of a fool when you find out about the actual affair.

For her, it allows her to say, well we went to MC, and I did not screw my BF that day, but MC did not help.

I hope that you will take some of the advice offered, it will help you through this situation...
On the one hand you seem to be deriding him for asking for advice on the internet, on the other you seem to insist he take your advice on the internet. I find that incongruous.
 

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You've gotten lots of posts that are sure she's cheating. You can do some easy research by reading other posts by posters in this thread and decide if they seem biased to you or not.

She may be, she may not, you know her and I don't. What would really alarm me is that she suggested an open marriage 3 weeks ago and now is walking it back. I would hope someone who was thinking along those lines would seek solo therapy or MC first.

If you do go the divorce route, I really don't recommend the confrontational route. Instead tell her her plan doesn't work and it's time to part ways, and try for an amicable divorce. No matter what sort of post-divorce relationship you want, a contentious divorce just gives everything the two of you have to the lawyers and leaves less for either of you.
 

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On the one hand you seem to be deriding him for asking for advice on the internet, on the other you seem to insist he take your advice on the internet. I find that incongruous.
Read that again and you may catch the sarcasm. I this new thing that they hope will catch on...

What I am deriding him for it being weak and not listening to what a lot of people that have been through this and studied this stuff are telling him.

We told him he was being weak.... "I am not being weak", we told him she has been cheating for a while, more than 3 weeks for sure IMHO, but his is convinced that is not the case.

Women that are NOT having affairs or are NOT trying out a new guy before pulling the trigger DO NOT ACT LIKE THIS...
 

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OH man, this absolutely screams that she has another guy. Now, go get a PI. Track down the other guy. DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE IN ON IT.
One client assaulted the other guy on the day he was going to run off with the WW. She showed up to find him beaten to a bloody pulp. He told her to GTFO as he wanted to continue living. Hubby had kicked his nards so badly his scrotum ripped. He was off to an ER to repair it. She offered to go with him, he told her to go to hell. She returned home to her bags packed. Lost both of them. Another showed up with her hubby's OW. Asked him if this is what he really wanted. He told the OW to leave. She tearfully told the wife in his presence all about their affair. He is on a leash now.

Find the other guy, bring him over to your wife and let her try to explain herself. Hand her the divorce papers, after having found a shark that will make her bleed. That is how you deal with this.
 

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OH man, this absolutely screams that she has another guy. Now, go get a PI. Track down the other guy. DO NOT LET YOUR WIFE IN ON IT.
One client assaulted the other guy on the day he was going to run off with the WW. She showed up to find him beaten to a bloody pulp. He told her to GTFO as he wanted to continue living. Hubby had kicked his nards so badly his scrotum ripped. He was off to an ER to repair it. She offered to go with him, he told her to go to hell. She returned home to her bags packed. Lost both of them. Another showed up with her hubby's OW. Asked him if this is what he really wanted. He told the OW to leave. She tearfully told the wife in his presence all about their affair. He is on a leash now.

Find the other guy, bring him over to your wife and let her try to explain herself. Hand her the divorce papers, after having found a shark that will make her bleed. That is how you deal with this.
I know some people whose attorney is going to tear their ex to shreds. But I don't know anyone whose attorney actually has.
 

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Well at 4 am she noticed i wasn't sleeping se we talked and hesitantly she agreed to do counciling. I told her she was either all in with the counciling or no go. i said i cant wait a year to see how you feel about us, we either work towards this now or Lets just end this now and save time. She said no dont i will do the counciling. I also told her that I want to strengthen our spiritual foundation as a couple which is weak also. thanks cc48kel. I didnt want to pull the rip cord just yet. She told me that 3 weeks ago she was ready to end the marriage but since we've been talking and working on this she is not sure thats what she wants. Hopefully the councilor will help her understand the phase she is going through.
Sounds like her boyfriend isn’t quite the “for sure” deal she thought he would be.
 

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Well at 4 am she noticed i wasn't sleeping se we talked and hesitantly she agreed to do counciling. I told her she was either all in with the counciling or no go. i said i cant wait a year to see how you feel about us, we either work towards this now or Lets just end this now and save time. She said no dont i will do the counciling. I also told her that I want to strengthen our spiritual foundation as a couple which is weak also. thanks cc48kel. I didnt want to pull the rip cord just yet. She told me that 3 weeks ago she was ready to end the marriage but since we've been talking and working on this she is not sure thats what she wants. Hopefully the councilor will help her understand the phase she is going through.
A councilor isn't going to fix this. You need to get your balls back. Read up

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy
 

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You have been warned. She is surely involved with at least one other man. We know this because she gave you the ilybinilwya speech. Yes, there is an acronym for it because it is so common. Most of the time women who give this speech are already cheating. 100% of the time when this speech is accompanied by "I want an open marriage," she is cheating.
 

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Are you abusive, an alcoholic/drug addict, chronically unemployed/grossly underemployed, cheating yourself or have checked out of the relationship yourself and haven't spoken to her or had no contact with her or the kids for the past year???

If the answer to all of those questions is no, then there is pretty much 99% certainty that she has fallen for another man.

Married women with young children simply do not tell their husbands to get a GF and then pack their stuff and leave unless the husband is one or more of the catagories above or they are involved with someone else.

Do a sincere search with total due diligence and you will find another man in the picture even if she says there isn't (all cheaters lie and deny it)

I agree with the above poster that suggested the reason for her considering counseling at this time is because the OM is showing signs of not taking her full time if she leaves you. (most OM are simply in it for the poontang and have no interest in actually taking on the woman and small children full time)

If you attempt reconciliation and counseling while she is still engaged with the OM you are simply spitting in the wind. Any efforts to save a marriage while still engaged in an affair is all for not. The affair must be blown up and completely ended before any attempts at reconciliation can ever hope to be successful.

Anything else will be a false reconciliation and a lie and a sham.
 

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You have been warned. She is surely involved with at least one other man. We know this because she gave you the ilybinilwya speech. Yes, there is an acronym for it because it is so common. Most of the time women who give this speech are already cheating. 100% of the time when this speech is accompanied by "I want an open marriage," she is cheating.
Agreed....

Add up what she has told him and one gets an empirical formula for calculating absolute metaphysical certitude that she is cheating.

Zero doubt.

Counseling? For what? Denial?
OP, you need an attorney. You are wasting valuable time. If you give her enough time tom her over her guilt and stop caring about you at all, you’re going to suffer when she guts you financially. You’re already going to be gutted by her betrayal.

But the truth will materialize soon enough.
 

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This reads like a script for a cheating wife. My first thought too is she is actively in an affair. Usually when women are checked out they tell you they aren't happy blah blah blah..., this is a whole new level when she tells you she wants to open the marriage, you are living on borrowed time my friend. She probably wants you to agree so she doesn't feel so bad about riding her AP like a mechanical bull while your at work. No MC will help you at this point. I know you don't want to hear it but you need to--start getting your affairs in order and start picturing your new life without her in it, I don't see this ending well.
 

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She is obviously in an affair. I suggest that you demand that she leave as that shakes them out of rainbow/unicorn land. Let her know that once you have proof of her extra curricular activities, it will become public knowledge. Ask her, can you live with everyone knowing what you are up to?

I gave that little throwaway line to my ex BIL. My SIL laughed in his face when he said it. She thought that there was no way on earth he could prove his allegations. She did not realize that a man with friends (ex-Israeli defense forces) that a)dislike her and b)have the funds to pay for a private investigator, will carry through on his threats. So, one morning she arrives at my MIL's house for morning coffee. MIL does not answer the door. MIL's car is in the driveway. She panics and calls MIL. MIL picks up the phone, and asks what has she been up to with X? How do you know about him? MIL comes to the door. There is a photographic file in her hand, the first pic is a kiss, the second is taken out of doors, on her favorite walking trail (my wife and I use it all the time). She has a cute tush, just like my wife, too bad in the picture it was being raised and lowered over X's ****. Her jaw hits the floor. She hurriedly calls her husband, only to be told, that her mother was the tip of the iceberg. The phone rings again. It is X's wife, who promises that her entire family will be beating my SIL to death. She goes to work, only to find her and X are escorted from the building (major charity, they could not afford to have their image hurt).

Her and X shacked up in the months following. Their lives were horribly disfigured by their acts and the aftermath. She has not worked since, has relied on relatives and a small home based business. He was forced to go down south, where his reputation did not preceed him. The divorces were, as a matter of course in our country no fault. When it came to asset division and financial settlements, their actions cost them.
 

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Well at 4 am she noticed i wasn't sleeping se we talked and hesitantly she agreed to do counciling. I told her she was either all in with the counciling or no go. i said i cant wait a year to see how you feel about us, we either work towards this now or Lets just end this now and save time. She said no dont i will do the counciling. I also told her that I want to strengthen our spiritual foundation as a couple which is weak also. thanks cc48kel. I didnt want to pull the rip cord just yet. She told me that 3 weeks ago she was ready to end the marriage but since we've been talking and working on this she is not sure thats what she wants. Hopefully the councilor will help her understand the phase she is going through.
Maybe I haven't been in these forums long enough to see cheating patterns, but the amount of 'oh, she's cheating, move on' advice is pretty staggering. If she's willing to try counseling, that's great. It's also good that you've laid down the gauntlet, as in we work on this or call it off. What is her reasoning to leave the marriage? Because she isn't 'in love?' Being 'in love' isn't always as important as commitment. I personally think it is normal to not always be in love with or even like your spouse.... especially when you start hitting long term relationships and big life changes.
 

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Maybe I haven't been in these forums long enough to see cheating patterns, but the amount of 'oh, she's cheating, move on' advice is pretty staggering. If she's willing to try counseling, that's great. It's also good that you've laid down the gauntlet, as in we work on this or call it off. What is her reasoning to leave the marriage? Because she isn't 'in love?' Being 'in love' isn't always as important as commitment. I personally think it is normal to not always be in love with or even like your spouse.... especially when you start hitting long term relationships and big life changes.
Well, OK, if that is the way that you live your life, I guess that is your business.

For most people, if their spouse does not love them, that is kind of a deal breaker. I have broken up with GF's that did not love me enough, or not the way that I needed.

So, I guess everyone is different.

So you understand, no romantic relationship (marriage or whatever) can be "worked" on if one of the partners is involved in an affair. It just is a waste.

In this thread, OP's wife has had multiple affairs and in currently involved in another.

Like many betrayed spouses (BS) he is making every wrong move that he could possible make.

There is no need for counseling if she is involved in an affair, I mean why would you do that.

Now, since she has been cheating almost their entire marriage, most her are advising him to file, and move on with life.

Pretty standard stuff really...
 

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My wife 3 weeks ago told me point blank first thing in the morning that she loves me but isn't in love with me. This news took a day or so to sink in. The passion in our 17 marriage has had fits and starts but i was shocked that with 3 young children she would tell me this when it will be at least 12 years before the youngest will be old enough to live on her own. I kept my cool on the outside but inside ive had severe anxiety and depression. There are things that she said added up to the conclusion one of them being the 16 year age difference her being the younger. for the last several weeks ive addressed all of the things that were important to her and she has noticed and said that its made a huge difference but we will revisit how things look in a year but she may want to consider and open marriage. Even though she said the attraction isn't there anymore, we have never had such a hot physical streak as the last 3 weeks. Partly because she feels she can trust and get support from me what she is going through. Ive been open to her fantasies of seeing other men etc but told her acting on it could be a place that destroys our family. Even though she says she thinks we can save the marriage she says I should get a girl friend and explore that option. My friends say she is just going through a phase and encourage her to see a couples therapist. She says she doesnt want to and knows how he feels. I cant wait a year to find out if this is going to work out, I feel like i need to ask her to see a therapist so we can work on this now. I dont know if she is just trying to figure out the financials but she really doesnt seem to have any concern for the welding of our children. I am really afraid of this ripping the family apart and losing everything including the whole side of her family. She says we should care enough about each others happiness to be open to any possibily including divorce. I just dont know how I can be happy for the person who broke my heart and ripped our family apart in the middle of tasing our kids. I think tonight is the night I really tell her we really need a 3rd person to sort this out or else there will be great risk to their dads well being(me). Any advice about getting through this?
This is a classic situation and happened to me, currently happily divorced for 12 months :smile2:

If you want to get divorced, screwed and go through hell then do exactly what I did.

Act like a whiny little *****
Give her all the power to make decisions
Be available at all times to keep things civil and let her do whatever she wants
Beg her to stay married
Ignore the warning signs she has another man or wants one.

If you would like to do much better than me then there are other options.

Get finances in order, open a new account with your name and have wages paid into it, close all joint credit cards and any joint lines of credit. Read and get legal advice on protecting yourself financially and ensuring you get best settlement possible.

Seek Legal advice and file for Divorce.

Tell your wife you love her or whatever else you want to say but you are moving on since she is no longer in love with you anymore and unless she is prepared to work on it with marriage counseling/therapy or whatever else you think then it is not worth dragging it out.

Start planning a new life which does not involve your wife. See friends more often, spend more time on hobbies, work more or anything else you want.

Two things will happen here, #1 you removed her choice so she will panic and come back to reality if she is lusting after another man and/or potentially seeing someone else or planning to shortly, she will want to work on things and you have to remain strong and firm on expectations here. This could save your marriage potentially if you feel it is worth it.

#2 you get divorced fast, get a good settlement, financially you are OK , mentally and emotionally you are hurt but will recover faster and have things in place to help you move on to a new life without dragging it out and being repeatedly hurt and emotionally broken.

I wish you well and understand how painful this is for you as I was in the exact same situation last year and was so depressed and had put everything in to my family and marriage i was totally unprepared for divorce.

I survived and had no family at all, few friends and not living in my country of birth, my xw has a huge family and I am no longer part of it, you will survive also.

PM me if you need to vent/talk or have questions.
 

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Well, OK, if that is the way that you live your life, I guess that is your business.

For most people, if their spouse does not love them, that is kind of a deal breaker. I have broken up with GF's that did not love me enough, or not the way that I needed.

So, I guess everyone is different.

So you understand, no romantic relationship (marriage or whatever) can be "worked" on if one of the partners is involved in an affair. It just is a waste.

In this thread, OP's wife has had multiple affairs and in currently involved in another.

Like many betrayed spouses (BS) he is making every wrong move that he could possible make.

There is no need for counseling if she is involved in an affair, I mean why would you do that.

Now, since she has been cheating almost their entire marriage, most her are advising him to file, and move on with life.

Pretty standard stuff really...
Everyone here seems to be *assuming* she is in an affair. That doesn't seem to be the OP's opinion at this point. He says it's not part of the equation, no suspicion on his part, no evidence, etc.

And a marriage of over a decade, and 3 weeks of turmoil, so assume she's cheating and throw in the towel? That's horrible advice. Get a PI, go to counseling, get to the root of the issue... Those bits of advice make way more sense. Try to work it out if possible, that seems like a reasonable thing.

And for the record, loveless marriages are hard to endorse. I wouldn't encourage anyone to live that way but... falling out of love with a spouse, or struggling with feelings in a marriage... there are lots of reasons those things happen and can be worked past. They are only THREE weeks into this.
 

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She's not going to tell you a thing. Cheaters lie a lot. Always


Acting weak just fortifies her position that there's a stronger better man out there for her.

You're doing yourself no favors man
Listen to these people, I was in denial also and there was no evidence but some how there was a new man in the mix she found time to see.
 

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Everyone here seems to be *assuming* she is in an affair. That doesn't seem to be the OP's opinion at this point. He says it's not part of the equation, no suspicion on his part, no evidence, etc.

And a marriage of over a decade, and 3 weeks of turmoil, so assume she's cheating and throw in the towel? That's horrible advice. Get a PI, go to counseling, get to the root of the issue... Those bits of advice make way more sense. Try to work it out if possible, that seems like a reasonable thing.

And for the record, loveless marriages are hard to endorse. I wouldn't encourage anyone to live that way but... falling out of love with a spouse, or struggling with feelings in a marriage... there are lots of reasons those things happen and can be worked past. They are only THREE weeks into this.
Seen it played out one to many times. This is playing from the cheaters handbook. Wrong, the OP is only three weeks into this. What has OP W been doing three weeks prior to OP getting the classic INLWYBNILWY?
 

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Seen it played out one to many times. This is playing from the cheaters handbook. Wrong, the OP is only three weeks into this. What has OP W been doing three weeks prior to OP getting the classic INLWYBNILWY?
Yes, you're correct, op is the one three weeks into this. Keep in mind, we do not know what was happening before that. Everyone can assume....

But maybe depression, or self esteem issues, possibly something that OP is doing is upsetting his spouse, maybe the age/life stage differences are causing a concern, maybe they haven't fostered their affections... there are so many things that can go wrong in relationships. Throwing every other possibility out the window to the point of absolutely no other conversation can happen here will not help.
 
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