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You can also suggest to her that you both need marriage counseling to figure out how to either move forward together or separately.
You shouldn't have to be a roommate.

EDT: just saw that she refused counseling -- so, YOU now have to decide how important this is to you. Sounds like you are not getting ANYTHING on the emotional side of things. She sounds rather cold -- so why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who treats you like that?
 

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Its been 3-4 years since anything even a sexual massage or foreplay. That is the confusing part too. Yes, I know some people say this, and I have just let her be for some time. I am wondering what in the world she is thinking in her mind - my husband has not had sex with me in 3-4 years - hmm, that seems obvious she is a real in tune person on intuition too. At times I am like this is a game? Years back she said perhaps I can not fulfill all of your needs - if it was up to you and we had sex 2-3 times per week - you would be happy with that - she says .. Like she knows but she is not going to do that just because I want it ??
Well she knows what you want but that's not what she wants. She has given you a hard no and proven it over the last 3 years, so I think at this point if you want to seek sex elsewhere you should. It may not be as easy as it sounds because most women aren't going to want to be with some man who is married or believe them when they say they haven't had sex for three years.

But you might get your feet wet and then see how you feel after you see what your options are out there. She just sounds postmenopausal. Likely she wasn't very sexual to begin with.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Why stay married if you are going to withhold sex?
What is confusing is that everything else is great. We have a great friendship, we have a daughter - we do things that are fun it's just that with all of that sex has gotten lost. We used to do passionate things and be very sexual. Life can be confusing when everything is changing to be honest. My wife and I used to have sex in the car and had fun so much and in fact, she was the one who was more sexual. Once my wife was pregnant it seemed that her energy shifted and then it went to 1 time per months or once every few months and along that time she would at least give me a sensual massage if she was not in the mood and after her parents passed away it then slipped to one time every six months. We discussed things, counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex. If we had sex 2-3 times per week I would be satisfied. Then it became when she met me initially she was into sex, then sex was to have a child and now she has been there and done that. She stated that she just did not feel sexual towards anyone at all. she did not know, I suggested she see a doctor and get some tests to make sure she was healthy with balance, vitamins and etc. What is crazy is when we met I was overweight a little - then we both got trainers and I got into the best shape in my life and during that time she had no interest at all - bizarre. It's not like she intends to be cold - but when I would initiate she would turn over and say she's tired or what am I doing. We might kiss and be affectionate but it would stop there. What I learned over the last few years is that I was always so focused on how to solve this and figure this out. But I was getting resistance from her when I brought up that I did not want to be a roommate with her and I wanted more. I do not know if its menopause with her being 53 this year. If anyone was in my house you would say - you guys get along amazing. Its all around the topic or the subject matter of sex - that is where I encounter the resistance. The last email I got when she discovered a text to a friend talking about this topic - she stated in an email and writing that she gives me permission to go have sex with anyone I want. That is not what I wanted to hear and that was never the intention to have sex - but lately out of frustration - this is confusing especially when all looks great and I miss the sexual experiences as I am a physical person and that is one of my love languages.

This is what was written to me by my wife:

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.

It seems lately if I do not expect anything or bring this up- everyone is happy - what do you do when you want to solve this instead of creating conflict in life. I do not think anyone wants to rock the boat or make someone do something they are not INSPIRED by. You can be in a "marriage" yet there is two people. Maybe sex is just sex and I am expecting too much from my partner in this. I never have tried to make her do anything. Its crazy when I have to come up with resources to support our family - I do not wait for inspiration before I do something for my family. I am not wanting her to just have sex - perhaps I want her to examine why this has disappeared from our relationship and has no importance when it used to be flowing. She should want to figure this out - should she not ?
 

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counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex
YOu need to tell her that you care about EMOTIONAL CLOSENESS that sex provides. Your counselor should have been able to help bring up that point. If they went along with HER statement, they are a lousy counselor.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.
So YOU THINK your marriage is great, you are friends, you all get along and are great together.
SHE IS TELLING YOU she doesn't care about you (if you want to separate, we can do it now). NOBODY who has a great marriage would say this to their spouse. She doesn't want to work on this but just issues an ultimatum? NOBODY who has a great marriage would do that -- they would want to discuss and try to resolve the issues (sex or otherwise).

Your marriage in YOUR EYES isn't reality. You need to really start looking without the rose colored glasses. What are YOU getting out of the relationship? What does she do FOR YOU?
 

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This is what was written to me by my wife:

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.
Well, she is missing the point that while no one is "entitled" to sex, it can be deserved by you being a diligent spouse. Also, no one is entitled to any act of service, sexual or otherwise. You don't have to do more than share bills and chores; but I bet you go beyond substantially.

But, right or wrong, she clearly doesn't love you as a romantic partner. As you noted, she doesn't care to fix this; it's your problem. She's sticking around for pragmatic reasons. Her knowing you aren't happy upsets and repels her; what she IS getting outweighs that unpleasantness (for now).

Once the needs she does have aren't met (or don't outweigh the negatives) she could walk away anyways. So, you need to do two things. First, get an attorney, know your rights and protect your property, income, and access to any minor children as best as possible.

Then, decide whether you even want to try. If so, let her know that you won't hide your sexuality and bow down to make her happy; ending the marriage is not your preferred option but IS the second-best choice.

If not, walk away.
 

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Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.
I honestly cannot fathom why you want to spin your wheels for more years. Pretending you have an otherwise splendid marriage. When it’s obvious your wife doesn’t give a **** about you and would rather you just **** off out of her life.

Seriously please do yourself a favour, and grow a backbone.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
What is confusing is that everything else is great. We have a great friendship, we have a daughter - we do things that are fun it's just that with all of that sex has gotten lost. We used to do passionate things and be very sexual. Life can be confusing when everything is changing to be honest. My wife and I used to have sex in the car and had fun so much and in fact, she was the one who was more sexual. Once my wife was pregnant it seemed that her energy shifted and then it went to 1 time per months or once every few months and along that time she would at least give me a sensual massage if she was not in the mood and after her parents passed away it then slipped to one time every six months. We discussed things, counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex. If we had sex 2-3 times per week I would be satisfied. Then it became when she met me initially she was into sex, then sex was to have a child and now she has been there and done that. She stated that she just did not feel sexual towards anyone at all. she did not know, I suggested she see a doctor and get some tests to make sure she was healthy with balance, vitamins and etc. What is crazy is when we met I was overweight a little - then we both got trainers and I got into the best shape in my life and during that time she had no interest at all - bizarre. It's not like she intends to be cold - but when I would initiate she would turn over and say she's tired or what am I doing. We might kiss and be affectionate but it would stop there. What I learned over the last few years is that I was always so focused on how to solve this and figure this out. But I was getting resistance from her when I brought up that I did not want to be a roommate with her and I wanted more. I do not know if its menopause with her being 53 this year. If anyone was in my house you would say - you guys get along amazing. Its all around the topic or the subject matter of sex - that is where I encounter the resistance. The last email I got when she discovered a text to a friend talking about this topic - she stated in an email and writing that she gives me permission to go have sex with anyone I want. That is not what I wanted to hear and that was never the intention to have sex - but lately out of frustration - this is confusing especially when all looks great and I miss the sexual experiences as I am a physical person and that is one of my love languages.

This is what was written to me by my wife:

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.

It seems lately if I do not expect anything or bring this up- everyone is happy - what do you do when you want to solve this instead of creating conflict in life. I do not think anyone wants to rock the boat or make someone do something they are not INSPIRED by. You can be in a "marriage" yet there is two people. Maybe sex is just sex and I am expecting too much from my partner in this. I never have tried to make her do anything. Its crazy when I have to come up with resources to support our family - I do not wait for inspiration before I do something for my family. I am not wanting her to just have sex - perhaps I want her to examine why this has disappeared from our relationship and has no importance when it used to be flowing. She should want to figure this out - should she not ?
I want to add that she said this after she found a message to a friend in which my friend said to me that my wife should know that I expect to have a sexual connection within the relationship. Perhaps she does not get how important that is as part of it. He mentioned that the reason my romance with her is **** is that maybe she does not really get that a sexual connection is important to me. I think she knows this after many conversations. She was probably pissed that she read my message in which he described in a sarcastic tone that my relationship is **** - in which she got upset and said you should not be talking of me in this light and that me telling or talking about her is - deformation of character and I should just worry about me. Perhaps she is pissed another part perhaps she is backed into a corner and has no energy left to give except just take care of herself. Perhaps she is more in a survival mode of eating, exercise, work on her business, and sleep because she has nothing extra to give..
 

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.....

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.

.....
I don't know how you missed the bolded part. This woman does not love you the way you want to be loved. Why don't you believe what she has written? Your wife is showing you who she is and what she thinks of you. Now you need to start believing her.
 

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I want to add that she said this after she found a message to a friend in which my friend said to me that my wife should know that I expect to have a sexual connection within the relationship. Perhaps she does not get how important that is as part of it. He mentioned that the reason my romance with her is ** is that maybe she does not really get that a sexual connection is important to me. I think she knows this after many conversations. She was probably pissed that she read my message in which he described in a sarcastic tone that my relationship is ** - in which she got upset and said you should not be talking of me in this light and that me telling or talking about her is - deformation of character and I should just worry about me. Perhaps she is pissed another part perhaps she is backed into a corner and has no energy left to give except just take care of herself. Perhaps she is more in a survival mode of eating, exercise, work on her business, and sleep because she has nothing extra to give..
After ALL the responses you've gotten...WHY do any of these points matter...??

SHE KNOWS -- she knows what you want, she knows what you need, she knows what she is doing...SHE DOES NOT CARE.

That should be the ONLY thing that matters - you cannot have a real marriage or relationship when one or both of the partners don't CARE about the other. It's empty, lonely, and NOT a loving relationship, no matter how superficially friendly you are to eachother.
 

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Sunchild,

You may have a long time to live without sex at your age, unless you really like going to cat shows with your wife and helping her clean the house and watching the royals on TV.

One question you did not answer, but that is important is did she ever cheat on you, this can also include an emotional affair where she fell in love with someone on another continent, or contact with an old boyfriend.

The reason that is so important is that women frequently emotionally divorce their husbands during an affair and never again regain respect, romance or love for them. This can occur behind your back.

Also does you W masturbate? Her comment, I think it was something like "I have to be in the mood", sounds like she has desire just no desire for you, and she knows it and comes up with excuses to avoid the real reason.
 

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What is confusing is that everything else is great. We have a great friendship, we have a daughter - we do things that are fun it's just that with all of that sex has gotten lost. We used to do passionate things and be very sexual. Life can be confusing when everything is changing to be honest. My wife and I used to have sex in the car and had fun so much and in fact, she was the one who was more sexual. Once my wife was pregnant it seemed that her energy shifted and then it went to 1 time per months or once every few months and along that time she would at least give me a sensual massage if she was not in the mood and after her parents passed away it then slipped to one time every six months. We discussed things, counseling, and what was happening and I would get shamed with phrases like all I care about is sex. If we had sex 2-3 times per week I would be satisfied. Then it became when she met me initially she was into sex, then sex was to have a child and now she has been there and done that. She stated that she just did not feel sexual towards anyone at all. she did not know, I suggested she see a doctor and get some tests to make sure she was healthy with balance, vitamins and etc. What is crazy is when we met I was overweight a little - then we both got trainers and I got into the best shape in my life and during that time she had no interest at all - bizarre. It's not like she intends to be cold - but when I would initiate she would turn over and say she's tired or what am I doing. We might kiss and be affectionate but it would stop there. What I learned over the last few years is that I was always so focused on how to solve this and figure this out. But I was getting resistance from her when I brought up that I did not want to be a roommate with her and I wanted more. I do not know if its menopause with her being 53 this year. If anyone was in my house you would say - you guys get along amazing. Its all around the topic or the subject matter of sex - that is where I encounter the resistance. The last email I got when she discovered a text to a friend talking about this topic - she stated in an email and writing that she gives me permission to go have sex with anyone I want. That is not what I wanted to hear and that was never the intention to have sex - but lately out of frustration - this is confusing especially when all looks great and I miss the sexual experiences as I am a physical person and that is one of my love languages.

This is what was written to me by my wife:

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.

It seems lately if I do not expect anything or bring this up- everyone is happy - what do you do when you want to solve this instead of creating conflict in life. I do not think anyone wants to rock the boat or make someone do something they are not INSPIRED by. You can be in a "marriage" yet there is two people. Maybe sex is just sex and I am expecting too much from my partner in this. I never have tried to make her do anything. Its crazy when I have to come up with resources to support our family - I do not wait for inspiration before I do something for my family. I am not wanting her to just have sex - perhaps I want her to examine why this has disappeared from our relationship and has no importance when it used to be flowing. She should want to figure this out - should she not ?
There is nothing the least bit confusing here. She is remarkably self-aware and has expressed her intent to you quite clearly.

She has no romantic/sexual feelings or desires for you at all and is not only ok if you have sex with other people but she has also preemptively agreed to a divorce.

You are nothing more than friends and roommates. She is aware of that and has accepted that. You need to become aware of that as well.

As I said in an early post, you can continue to be friends and coparents but you are no longer lovers and won’t ever be.

Your choice is whether to stay and be friends or move on to find love elsewhere.
 

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This is what was written to me by my wife:

EXPECTING “sexuality” from someone is the same as saying you are “ENTITLED” to sex. No one is “ENTITLED” to sex (unless you are human trafficking – which is criminal - or paying a hooker then it’s a business transaction). Perhaps one can be/ moved touched and inspired to have sex with another person but ‘EXPECTING’ someone to be “sexual” can only bring you disappointment.
In conclusion: You are free (from me) to have sex with anyone you like. I am ok with that. Also if you find someone that you want to move in with and live your life with just draw up papers so we can officially separate. If you want to officially separate now, I am ok with that.
I agree with everyone that she does not care about you or your needs. Time to call her out on it and separate.

I wonder if she has cheated or is cheating on you. The lack of care and respect here is pretty astounding...so much that I wouldn't be at all surprised if she had herself a side piece.

Maybe you can ask her for her help in setting up your Tinder account.
 

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So YOU THINK your marriage is great, you are friends, you all get along and are great together.
SHE IS TELLING YOU she doesn't care about you (if you want to separate, we can do it now). NOBODY who has a great marriage would say this to their spouse. She doesn't want to work on this but just issues an ultimatum? NOBODY who has a great marriage would do that -- they would want to discuss and try to resolve the issues (sex or otherwise).

Your marriage in YOUR EYES isn't reality. You need to really start looking without the rose colored glasses.
This is well said.

YOU are not seeing the reality. You may have had a good love life years ago in the very beginning.

But that life ended years ago.

That woman that loved and had sex with you no longer exists.

That life that you thought you had and thought you would have in the future does not exist.

I am sorry. This is sad and unfortunate but it does happen and is not rare.
 

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There is nothing the least bit confusing here. She is remarkably self-aware and has expressed her intent to you quite clearly.

She has no romantic/sexual feelings or desires for you at all and is not only ok if you have sex with other people but she has also preemptively agreed to a divorce.

You are nothing more than friends and roommates. She is aware of that and has accepted that. You need to become aware of that as well.

As I said in an early post, you can continue to be friends and coparents but you are no longer lovers and won’t ever be.

Your choice is whether to stay and be friends or move on to find love elsewhere.
Which her text to you was silly.

Barring medical reasons it's far more unusual for no sex in a marriage than to be having sex.

The word entitled used tries to paint it in the worst light but expectations of sex in a marriage is, well, expected. This is not gender specific either.
 

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My guess is that she has zero sexual desire and fully expects you to not do one damn thing about going out and finding someone else to have sex with so she feels pretty safe in telling you to do so. If you've been married a while, she knows you, knows what you're capable of and more importantly, what you're NOT capable of and therefore has no fear that you will make good on her promise to you.

If it were me, I would find some things to do outside of the house for a few nights...come home late, but in a very good mood. That will ferret out her true feelings on the matter. She may find that the idea of you actually out with somebody feels very different to her once it's something she thinks you will really do.
 

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Which her text to you was silly.

Barring medical reasons it's far more unusual for no sex in a marriage than to be having sex.

The word entitled used tries to paint it in the worst light but expectations of sex in a marriage is, well, expected. This is not gender specific either.
I don’t think she is being silly at all. I think she has laid it out there as cold hard fact and this is an attempt to get it through to him.

That’s face it, the OP has been asleep at the wheel. What man goes 3-4 YEARS with no sex within a marriage that he describes as great???

She checked out and disengaged probably more than 4 years ago and he still hasn’t caught on.

Yes she was cold and blunt, but I have the feeling she had to be because he wasn’t (and possibly still isn’t) getting it.

And technically she is correct, people are NOT entitled to sex from someone else if they don’t want to.

It has just taken him over 3 years of celibacy to start to get the hint.
 

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I don’t think she is being silly at all. I think she has laid it out there as cold hard fact and this is an attempt to get it through to him.

That’s face it, the OP has been asleep at the wheel. What man goes 3-4 YEARS with no sex within a marriage that he describes as great???

She checked out and disengaged probably more than 4 years ago and he still hasn’t caught on.

Yes she was cold and blunt, but I have the feeling she had to be because he wasn’t (and possibly still isn’t) getting it.

And technically she is correct, people are NOT entitled to sex from someone else if they don’t want to.

It has just taken him over 3 years of celibacy to start to get the hint.
We all know OP has waited 3, 4 years to resolve or divorce. And in a M, a wife can indeed say no all she wants, a H is free to then leave her, and should. Quickly.
 

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Which her text to you was silly.

Barring medical reasons it's far more unusual for no sex in a marriage than to be having sex.

The word entitled used tries to paint it in the worst light but expectations of sex in a marriage is, well, expected. This is not gender specific either.
Exactly...my relationship with my exH was perfect to all those looking at it from the outside. We were very good friends who happened to be married. We did not have sex. I slowly died inside...because my expectation of marriage was that my husband would want to have a sex life with me. I do NOT think that makes me entitled in any way, shape, or form...and men are not entitled either when they have the same expectation of marriage.
 

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My guess is that she has zero sexual desire and fully expects you to not do one damn thing about going out and finding someone else to have sex with so she feels pretty safe in telling you to do so. If you've been married a while, she knows you, knows what you're capable of and more importantly, what you're NOT capable of and therefore has no fear that you will make good on her promise to you.

If it were me, I would find some things to do outside of the house for a few nights...come home late, but in a very good mood. That will ferret out her true feelings on the matter. She may find that the idea of you actually out with somebody feels very different to her once it's something she thinks you will really do.
Agree with the first paragraph. She doesn't really expect you to go get sex somewhere else. That sounds like a "damn, just stop bugging" thing to me.

Yeah she gave you permission, but I bet that if you find someone, start spending time and money with her, your wife will pull the plug on it herself.

That's why you need to see an attorney now. Anything could tip the scales toward her leaving.
 
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