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So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?
Absolutely:

1 Cor 7:5
“Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”
This establishes 100% that sexual refusal to a spouse is sin. And yes, in context, Paul is speaking explicitly about sexual deprivation here.

And exactly what is marriage, Biblically speaking? Jesus quotes Moses starting in Mark 10:6

”But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.”
”Hold fast” is a well know euphemism for sex in that culture, and I would hope “become one flesh” is also understood by all. It has a far deeper spiritual meaning as well, but it certainly means physical sex.

Sexual refusal is also abandonment of the marriage covenant, which Paul also explicitly says is Biblical grounds for divorce in 1 Cor 7:10-16. I’ve counseled a number of Christian men over the years to divorce their refusing wives, with explicit approval of their churches, following church discipline procedures with the refusing spouse. And no, there was nothing physically wrong with the women, nor was there any abuse or other bad behavior of the men. Sadly, the men could be better described as doormats, but they’re all now happily re-married and hopefully not as spineless.
 

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Discussion Starter #82
My point was that you could take responsibility to make things more exciting. With the lights turned off allows for a tremendous amount of creative possibilities. You could wear a harness and attach one of those ground effect kits that people would normally use to light up underneath their cars, but instead attach a bunch of LED lighting effects to light up and ornament your junk. Combine that with some 500 watt subwoofers under the bed and drop the beat when you dive in.

I mean if you had this subwoofer setup and secretly hidden underneath you bed and surprised your wife, would it still be boring:

Haha yes, I am thinking about good vibrations those speaker would make. But she doesn't even like the vibration my motorcycle makes. I am sure the right person would have miles of smiles though.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Today on Facebook Mark Gungor made the following post...


(If you don’t think adultery is grounds for separation, you will need medication after reading this.)
WHEN A SPOUSE REFUSES SEX
I have been posting about what it means to be sexually unfaithful. While these are not exhaustive posts (in other words, not every single angle is covered) my goal is to challenge the thinking of many in the hope that they arrive at a healthy biblical perspective.
The clearest and most obvious form of sexual unfaithfulness is when a person engages in physical sex with someone who is not their spouse. But that is not the ONLY form of sexual unfaithfulness.
To understand where I am coming from, one must ask: What does it mean to be faithful?
One is faithful in prayer if they pray. If one does not pray they are not being faithful in prayer.
If one shows up to work on time and does their job, they are considered a faithful employee. If not, they are unfaithful.
Anyone who can always be depended on is called faithful. Those who always perform or discharge their duties are called faithful.
When an individual refuses sex on an extended basis to their spouse, they are being sexually unfaithful.
Concerning sex in marriage, the Apostle Paul wrote,
“The husband should fulfill his marital duty [sex] to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. Do not deprive each other...” 1 Cor 7
Couples are to be sexually faithful to one another. When one unilaterally decides to deny sex to their partner, they are no longer sexually faithful. More clearly stated: The man or woman who refuses sex to their spouse is being SEXUALLY UNFAITHFUL.
We are not talking about people who are having physical problems or those in abusive situations. We are talking about an individual, for whatever reason, just refusing to be sexually intimate with their spouse.
At it’s core, marriage is a sexual contract. Refusing sex to your partner is a violation of the contract. (“Covenant” for you uber spiritual.)
Bottom line is that couples are supposed to be sexually active with each other. When they refuse (and “refuse” is the key word here), they are being sexually unfaithful. And in such cases I always advise the same steps as if one were having sex with a person who is not their spouse.
1. Confront the unfaithfulness
2. File for separation
In my next post I will explain why separation is the best option in such a case. Often it is the only real option.
 

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So there is scripture to support divorce based on no sex?
1 Corr. 7:2 But because of sexual immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband.

1 Corrinthians 7:5 Says not to deprive one another except if both consent, for a time to pray and fast.

Withholding sexual intimacy is immorality based on sexual nature. The sexually immoral behavior spoken of in the Bible covers more than just Adultry. Adultry is just one of the immoral acts covered by the"sexual immorality" as cited for Biblical grounds for divorce.
Just like making one believe you are a virgin and you are not. That is grounds for divorce.
 

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At it’s core, marriage is a sexual contract. Refusing sex to your partner is a violation of the contract.
In my opinion that argument is based on a sense of entitlement. In reality it is going to cause additional harm. Love is patient, keeps no record or wrongdoing, always hopes, and always perseveres.

I once thought that since marriage vows included, "to have and to hold" that I should be able to have a hug whenever I wanted. Nope! Doesn't work that way. You can let your spouse know that you are ready for a hug when they are. If your spouse does not want a hug then you can talk about why. Once you are both ready for a hug, THEN you can hug.

Getting back to sex. There is such a thing in marriage as maintenance sex. You can talk about that and come to an understanding with one another as to what the realistic expectations would be for that to happen. It does not have to be boring and can be a place of healing and connection if you are willing to put in the effort that it takes to work together as a team.

Regards,
Badsanta
 

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Today on Facebook Mark Gungor made the following post...


(If you don’t think adultery is grounds for separation, you will need medication after reading this.)
WHEN A SPOUSE REFUSES SEX
I have been posting about what it means to be sexually unfaithful. While these are not exhaustive posts (in other words, not every single angle is covered) my goal is to challenge the thinking of many in the hope that they arrive at a healthy biblical perspective.
The clearest and most obvious form of sexual unfaithfulness is when a person engages in physical sex with someone who is not their spouse. But that is not the ONLY form of sexual unfaithfulness.
To understand where I am coming from, one must ask: What does it mean to be faithful?
One is faithful in prayer if they pray. If one does not pray they are not being faithful in prayer.
If one shows up to work on time and does their job, they are considered a faithful employee. If not, they are unfaithful.
Anyone who can always be depended on is called faithful. Those who always perform or discharge their duties are called faithful.
When an individual refuses sex on an extended basis to their spouse, they are being sexually unfaithful.
Concerning sex in marriage, the Apostle Paul wrote,
“The husband should fulfill his marital duty [sex] to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. Do not deprive each other...” 1 Cor 7
Couples are to be sexually faithful to one another. When one unilaterally decides to deny sex to their partner, they are no longer sexually faithful. More clearly stated: The man or woman who refuses sex to their spouse is being SEXUALLY UNFAITHFUL.
We are not talking about people who are having physical problems or those in abusive situations. We are talking about an individual, for whatever reason, just refusing to be sexually intimate with their spouse.
At it’s core, marriage is a sexual contract. Refusing sex to your partner is a violation of the contract. (“Covenant” for you uber spiritual.)
Bottom line is that couples are supposed to be sexually active with each other. When they refuse (and “refuse” is the key word here), they are being sexually unfaithful. And in such cases I always advise the same steps as if one were having sex with a person who is not their spouse.
1. Confront the unfaithfulness
2. File for separation
In my next post I will explain why separation is the best option in such a case. Often it is the only real option.
Ok. So what are YOU going to do NOW?
 

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Discussion Starter #89
Ok. So what are YOU going to do NOW?
To be honest, work on myself. As mentioned I suffer from anxiety and agoraphobia. I spent 4 years inside my home. I developed an eating disorder and lost a huge amount of weight. I lost muscle mass. I got so bad I doubt I could have had sex if I wanted. I have improved recently and am off all mind altering meds. I am gaining needed weight and exercising somewhat. I need to work more on getting out of the house and keep the momentum going with my other progress.

Some of you may say "no wonder she does not want sex with him he is a nut case". Well yeah, I admit that it's a work in progress. But the sexless marriage preceded me going nuts by many years. I left out so many details. My wife gets angry when I get better. I could not even go for a drive around the block without my heart rate getting elevated over 160 bpm. I used to travel a lot so this all makes no sense even to me. A few weeks ago I managed to drive for 45 minutes. Very odd how much has changed and disorientating after being stuck inside for 4 years. Anyways when I told my wife that I managed to go out driving for 45 minutes she said "I can't believe you waisted that gas" and did not speak to me for a few days. Everything I do is in secret because everything is not good enough and criticized. No sharable moments or intimacy of any kind, not just the sex. If I open up about anything I know that eventually it will be used as a weapon against me and I got to ready for that. Extremely lonely but not allowed to form new relationships. Even my friends stopped coming around because they all knew how much hell I would get when they would see me.

I have a bucket list. A real adult relationship is on it. If I want to have one I think at this point my wife is not even an option. Too much anger on her part for so many years and I just don't get it. I don't hate her, I wish her well. But I am trying to figure out how to get out of what always felt like a trap. I always had bad anxiety but it was always under control, did not limit me in any way. I do a lot of wondering that if I never met my wife how things may have looked very different. I don't blame her for my illness but obviously my marital situation is a factor. Trying to figure out the way out with the least amount of drama.

I was thinking "hey I am getting better, perhaps I could get back to work and buy a very modest second home." She would still have security of this home and I could get what I want. Also, my kid would still inherit the home someday. But obviously this would not work because she does not want me to have sex at all apparently. And that's what kind of what led me to the initial question. Why does it matter so much to her as long as she gets what she wants? It's clear she does not want me. I would like to remove her from my life completely so a divorce does look good. The only problem is I can't remove her completely without abandoning my kid. So all this comes down to what I am doing now is working on myself so that I can face what will need to eventually do. My current goal is to be hopefully divorced and moved on the best I can in a years time. My confidence is low but improving, knew her in high school and now I am pushing 50.
 

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She should have celebrated that 45-minute drive, cried tears of joy for you.

Remember this moment years from now, when you are thriving.

The one who promised to love you, has watched you suffer a debilitating illness... and didn’t want to cheer you on when you found your feet.

Never forget those words, but remember to look back on them with no feeling one day, don’t let a person like that be the stain.

That day will come for you too, where you don’t feel the pain you do now when you look back on this story about somebody that you used to know.

Your wife actually likes you down and out.

You will get better, and her hatred for you will grow. You’ll see.
 

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To be honest, work on myself. As mentioned I suffer from anxiety and agoraphobia. I spent 4 years inside my home. I developed an eating disorder and lost a huge amount of weight. I lost muscle mass. I got so bad I doubt I could have had sex if I wanted. I have improved recently and am off all mind altering meds. I am gaining needed weight and exercising somewhat. I need to work more on getting out of the house and keep the momentum going with my other progress.

Some of you may say "no wonder she does not want sex with him he is a nut case". Well yeah, I admit that it's a work in progress. But the sexless marriage preceded me going nuts by many years. I left out so many details. My wife gets angry when I get better. I could not even go for a drive around the block without my heart rate getting elevated over 160 bpm. I used to travel a lot so this all makes no sense even to me. A few weeks ago I managed to drive for 45 minutes. Very odd how much has changed and disorientating after being stuck inside for 4 years. Anyways when I told my wife that I managed to go out driving for 45 minutes she said "I can't believe you waisted that gas" and did not speak to me for a few days. Everything I do is in secret because everything is not good enough and criticized. No sharable moments or intimacy of any kind, not just the sex. If I open up about anything I know that eventually it will be used as a weapon against me and I got to ready for that. Extremely lonely but not allowed to form new relationships. Even my friends stopped coming around because they all knew how much hell I would get when they would see me.

I have a bucket list. A real adult relationship is on it. If I want to have one I think at this point my wife is not even an option. Too much anger on her part for so many years and I just don't get it. I don't hate her, I wish her well. But I am trying to figure out how to get out of what always felt like a trap. I always had bad anxiety but it was always under control, did not limit me in any way. I do a lot of wondering that if I never met my wife how things may have looked very different. I don't blame her for my illness but obviously my marital situation is a factor. Trying to figure out the way out with the least amount of drama.

I was thinking "hey I am getting better, perhaps I could get back to work and buy a very modest second home." She would still have security of this home and I could get what I want. Also, my kid would still inherit the home someday. But obviously this would not work because she does not want me to have sex at all apparently. And that's what kind of what led me to the initial question. Why does it matter so much to her as long as she gets what she wants? It's clear she does not want me. I would like to remove her from my life completely so a divorce does look good. The only problem is I can't remove her completely without abandoning my kid. So all this comes down to what I am doing now is working on myself so that I can face what will need to eventually do. My current goal is to be hopefully divorced and moved on the best I can in a years time. My confidence is low but improving, knew her in high school and now I am pushing 50.
“ Women do not care about a man’s struggles. They wait at the finish line and pick the winner.”
- Richard Cooper
 

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Exception for the elderly noted and agreed.

Otherwise I stand by the initial statement. For healthy, non-elderly people; sex and sexual intimacy is a core, existential pillar of marriage.
Disagree regarding "elderly". Sexual intimacy is a core of marriage until death. We are in our seventies, and without that intimacy the marriage would be done. I am amazed people male and female would tolerate a dead bedroom for longer than it takes to file for divorce. The OP is already divorced without the paperwork.
 

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Disagree regarding "elderly". Sexual intimacy is a core of marriage until death. We are in our seventies, and without that intimacy the marriage would be done. I am amazed people male and female would tolerate a dead bedroom for longer than it takes to file for divorce. The OP is already divorced without the paperwork.
I won't speak for @DudeInProgress, but my assertion on the elderly was not meant as a universal statement, but a general truism. And it is true, even if not for you and others. There are plenty of elderly people in happy fulfilled marriages without having sexual intimacy. There are even elderly people who get married knowing that there will be no sex between them. And there are younger people who are that way as well. My biggest point is that these types of people exist, in enough numbers we can easily point to examples, and are more frequent in certain demographics.

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To be honest, work on myself. As mentioned I suffer from anxiety and agoraphobia. I spent 4 years inside my home. I developed an eating disorder and lost a huge amount of weight. I lost muscle mass. I got so bad I doubt I could have had sex if I wanted. I have improved recently and am off all mind altering meds. I am gaining needed weight and exercising somewhat. I need to work more on getting out of the house and keep the momentum going with my other progress.

Some of you may say "no wonder she does not want sex with him he is a nut case". Well yeah, I admit that it's a work in progress. But the sexless marriage preceded me going nuts by many years. I left out so many details. My wife gets angry when I get better. I could not even go for a drive around the block without my heart rate getting elevated over 160 bpm. I used to travel a lot so this all makes no sense even to me. A few weeks ago I managed to drive for 45 minutes. Very odd how much has changed and disorientating after being stuck inside for 4 years. Anyways when I told my wife that I managed to go out driving for 45 minutes she said "I can't believe you waisted that gas" and did not speak to me for a few days. Everything I do is in secret because everything is not good enough and criticized. No sharable moments or intimacy of any kind, not just the sex. If I open up about anything I know that eventually it will be used as a weapon against me and I got to ready for that. Extremely lonely but not allowed to form new relationships. Even my friends stopped coming around because they all knew how much hell I would get when they would see me.

I have a bucket list. A real adult relationship is on it. If I want to have one I think at this point my wife is not even an option. Too much anger on her part for so many years and I just don't get it. I don't hate her, I wish her well. But I am trying to figure out how to get out of what always felt like a trap. I always had bad anxiety but it was always under control, did not limit me in any way. I do a lot of wondering that if I never met my wife how things may have looked very different. I don't blame her for my illness but obviously my marital situation is a factor. Trying to figure out the way out with the least amount of drama.

I was thinking "hey I am getting better, perhaps I could get back to work and buy a very modest second home." She would still have security of this home and I could get what I want. Also, my kid would still inherit the home someday. But obviously this would not work because she does not want me to have sex at all apparently. And that's what kind of what led me to the initial question. Why does it matter so much to her as long as she gets what she wants? It's clear she does not want me. I would like to remove her from my life completely so a divorce does look good. The only problem is I can't remove her completely without abandoning my kid. So all this comes down to what I am doing now is working on myself so that I can face what will need to eventually do. My current goal is to be hopefully divorced and moved on the best I can in a years time. My confidence is low but improving, knew her in high school and now I am pushing 50.
Your wife sounds like my ex husband. I also suffer anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, panic attacks, lost lots of weight because I couldn't eat. So much you have written I could have written myself. I finally left an emotional, mental, verbally abusive marriage March 2020 and filing for divorce. I'm struggling daily thanks to all the trauma from that marriage. I understand what you are going through. Your life won't improve till you get away from the abuse. That's what you are going through abuse :-( congratulate yourself on any progress you are making no matter how small. Going for the drive was a great achievement and you should feel proud. I am trying to go for short walks with my rescue dog and building myself back up from there. I'm now going to get myself a push bike so I can go cycling in the countryside here :) I am still trying to eat better I want my curves back haha. Here if you need support. You've got this :) I'm finding TAM very helpful and realised I'm not alone in my suffering. It's sad seeing so many of us hurt, abused and I get comfort knowing I'm not alone. Please take care :)

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Your wife sounds like my ex husband. I also suffer anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, panic attacks, lost lots of weight because I couldn't eat. So much you have written I could have written myself. I finally left an emotional, mental, verbally abusive marriage March 2020 and filing for divorce. I'm struggling daily thanks to all the trauma from that marriage. I understand what you are going through. Your life won't improve till you get away from the abuse. That's what you are going through abuse :-( congratulate yourself on any progress you are making no matter how small. Going for the drive was a great achievement and you should feel proud. I am trying to go for short walks with my rescue dog and building myself back up from there. I'm now going to get myself a push bike so I can go cycling in the countryside here :) I am still trying to eat better I want my curves back haha. Here if you need support. You've got this :) I'm finding TAM very helpful and realised I'm not alone in my suffering. It's sad seeing so many of us hurt, abused and I get comfort knowing I'm not alone. Please take care :)

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Wow we do sound similar. When I would go for a bike ride or a walk I was told that I was being selfish for spending my time that way. (because nothing in life matters more than doing more work lol) In fact I was just trying to get rid of some energy and was pacing through my home and was told "I don't like it when you do that" so I decided to come here and check the forum. Back in the day (not too long ago but it's impossible now) I could ride 30 miles no problem. Loved it along with hikes in the woods and going to swimming holes. I was bit of an adrenalin junky too, that is until I had too much of it all the time that is. I would go to work, come home and walk 3 miles through my neighborhood every day. Then one day I had a massive attack during that walk and collapsed. Started to get 5 panic attacks a day after that point and became agoraphobic. Thank god I have not had any major attacks like that recently.

Knowing that I am not alone is bittersweet. Knowing that other people get it is nice but then again knowing other people are suffering for no apparent reason sucks. It's all bit confusing when all the stuff you loved and want to do again becomes what feels impossible. It's been so long I have no idea who I truly am. Anyways congratulation's on getting out of the bad relationship. I also rode my bike today. I managed to ride it back and forth to the my neighbors on both sides of me a few times. Perhaps it will give me chuckle the next time to think that somebody else is having the same issue. It's hard to wrap my head around knowing that this is all senseless yet its the hardest thing to overcome and yeah, I try to look at it with a bit of humor as a coping mechanism. (no offence intended to your struggles)
 

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Wow we do sound similar. When I would go for a bike ride or a walk I was told that I was being selfish for spending my time that way. (because nothing in life matters more than doing more work lol) In fact I was just trying to get rid of some energy and was pacing through my home and was told "I don't like it when you do that" so I decided to come here and check the forum. Back in the day (not too long ago but it's impossible now) I could ride 30 miles no problem. Loved it along with hikes in the woods and going to swimming holes. I was bit of an adrenalin junky too, that is until I had too much of it all the time that is. I would go to work, come home and walk 3 miles through my neighborhood every day. Then one day I had a massive attack during that walk and collapsed. Started to get 5 panic attacks a day after that point and became agoraphobic. Thank god I have not had any major attacks like that recently.

Knowing that I am not alone is bittersweet. Knowing that other people get it is nice but then again knowing other people are suffering for no apparent reason sucks. It's all bit confusing when all the stuff you loved and want to do again becomes what feels impossible. It's been so long I have no idea who I truly am. Anyways congratulation's on getting out of the bad relationship. I also rode my bike today. I managed to ride it back and forth to the my neighbors on both sides of me a few times. Perhaps it will give me chuckle the next time to think that somebody else is having the same issue. It's hard to wrap my head around knowing that this is all senseless yet its the hardest thing to overcome and yeah, I try to look at it with a bit of humor as a coping mechanism. (no offence intended to your struggles)
A sense of humour is good when struggling. I have a bit of a dark sense of humour at times. Someone I know is a paramedic and she said it's the dark sense of humour that gets them through their work. I used to cycle for miles around Somerset years ago when I lived there. Had to push my bike up the steep hills though. I can cycle forever if on flat ground haha. All through my marriage my ex hubby never went on long walks with me or even a short walk. Would drive everywhere and park close to where we were going. I'm an outdoor person so will be able to do my own thing now in my own time. Do you feel like you are walking on egg shells all the time?

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A sense of humour is good when struggling. I have a bit of a dark sense of humour at times. Someone I know is a paramedic and she said it's the dark sense of humour that gets them through their work. I used to cycle for miles around Somerset years ago when I lived there. Had to push my bike up the steep hills though. I can cycle forever if on flat ground haha. All through my marriage my ex hubby never went on long walks with me or even a short walk. Would drive everywhere and park close to where we were going. I'm an outdoor person so will be able to do my own thing now in my own time. Do you feel like you are walking on egg shells all the time?

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Yeah on egg shells. Just about every aspect of the marriage is bad, about power and control. Just that for me the lack of sex hurts the most. Before marriage the sex was great and no matter how tough life got I felt like I could handle anything. After marriage it was just empty promises to get what she wanted. Was thinking that I probably should have started this post a bit differently, perhaps in the mental health area. I know she is messed up and I am too. I at least am working on my issues, she wont admit to hers let alone work on them. I honestly don't think she actually knows what she wants or is unwilling to work towards any important goal.
 
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