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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks, it's been a long time since I've posted. My full story is very long (you can probably see my old posts under my profile if you'd really like to) so I will try my best to keep this short.

Essentially, for the entirety of my wife and I's married lives, we've lived in a mostly sexless marriage. By that I mean, in nearly 16 years of marriage (separated for about three of those years) we've probably averaged some form of sexual activity maaaaybe two or three times a year, if that. To clarify what "sexual activity" means, I mean literally any kind of sexual activity, ranging from full penetrative sex, to oral sex, hand stuff, playing with toys, etc. Early on in our marriage, we had a lot of problems that led to our separation in year six, like immaturity, porn addiction on my part, really unrealistic expectations, us dabbling in some unhealthy behavior to try to spur any kind of libido, etc. (Things like wife sharing) It was messy, but we grew from that, figured out most of our messes and have been back together for the last six or so years and have since had two more children, ages 1 and 3.

My hope had been... and she assured me at the time this would happen... that as part of our maturing and figuring out the various ways that we drove our marriage into a ditch, that our sex life would grow and become healthy as well. Prior to the separation, she never had any interest in sex of any kind, any activity, but again I had hoped it was because of our marriage being unhealthy at that time. But while our marriage is SIGNIFICANTLY healthier than it ever was before, there has been absolutely zero growth in the sexual relations department. If anything, it's regressed, now to a point that it's absolutely causing the marriage to suffer. Nowadays, most nights she is quiet, nose in her phone, avoiding me at all cost, going to bed early, pretending to be too tired or sore or aching or tired or anything to so much as look at me, let alone speak, or engage in any contact whatsoever. Contact meaning she doesn't even want to touch, hug/kiss hello or goodbye or goodnight, nothing. The discomfort is thick in the air. She will go to extreme lengths throughout the day to set the stage for avoiding contact that day/night, like casually mentioning headaches, back pain, fatigue, etc. then repeat them in the evening to shut down any notion of contact. Unless plans change, in which case she suddenly feels fine and will invite people over or go out herself or whatever.

To be clear, we've talked about this stuff. I've relayed to her many times how incredibly important having a sexual relationship with my wife is. If you're into the "Five Love Languages", mine is definitely physical touch, which certainly involves much more than just sexual stuff but she wants no contact with me at all. She doesn't handle criticism well, she never has, so she refuses to talk about it most of the time or just sits and gets angrier whenever I try to gently bring anything up. I go to GREAT lengths on a daily basis to treat her like a queen as well, giving her anything she wants, doing everything I can for her, offering to help with anything, giving her back rubs/foot rubs, making her meals, fetching her treats, anything I can. I work on her love languages every day, but I can't think of any effort she has made purely on my behalf in months. Until recently, I tried not to even push her for sexual activity, I try to romance her to see if I can have it come naturally, but it doesn't happen, so lately I've been trying to just very gently outright ask her. We've been married a long time, so I know romance sometimes is hard to come by so I just started asking her. In fact, I've been gently, lovingly asking her every night for a couple weeks now, where as in the past it was more like once a month. My hope has been that maybe I could get her to see how much she rejects me, to see if she runs out of excuses. Instead, it's just been making her angry and depressed. So last week, I reminded her that she had promised me two years ago that she would find us a marriage counselor to help us out, and told her I wanted her to do that.

Since then, she's been even more angry and depressed. Even our 15 year old daughter has noticed it a lot lately. She's just mad, every day. I'm setting appointments up with a counselor, and I know she's dreading it. She seems to be assuming that the whole point of the counseling is to get her to have sex with me, but that's certainly not what it's about. Heck, I wanted HER to pick a counselor so that she wouldn't think that I picked someone who would be favorable to my needs. I want to fix whatever the problem is, not just make her have sex with me.

So the first thing, I'd love your thoughts on what I've shared so far. Secondly... I've heard from other women before, and folks here on the forums, that it's not uncommon at all for men to have a higher sex drive than women, especially when you've been married for a long time. I've also heard that it's somewhat common for wives to recognize this, and because they love their husbands, sometimes they just go along with it for his sake. I'm not saying "faking it" necessarily, but just recognizing his needs and being willing to commit 10-20 minutes to help him out. Sometimes even scheduling it, lol. One of my assistants once told me that she and her husband had to schedule it for every Thursday, and she usually wasn't excited about it but was happy to put in the effort every week "because he deserves it, for being a good guy, husband and father." So the part that bugs me is... I work damn hard to be a good husband, father and person. I make dinner every night, clean up the house, spend lots of time with the kids, hardly ever see my friends save for maybe four or five times a year, I really do treat her like a queen, give her all kinds of time to herself while I take on the kids or other projects, etc. Even if there is no hope for her libido, even if she will never be personally sexually excited again, why can't she give me just that little bit of effort every so often to show me that she cares? That I'm important to her? It's not ideal, but hell that would mean so much to me.

So that's what I mean by the "(Loveless?)" part of this thread title. These days I've increasingly believing that perhaps she just doesn't love me, and the guilt is contributing to her anger/depression. I figure even if it came out that she is asexual, I still can't rationalize why she couldn't make a little effort to throw me so much as a handjob every now and then and a few hugs/kisses. My understanding is that even asexual people still enjoy physical contact with their loved ones, just maybe not sexual contact.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated. As of now, the last time we had sexual contact of any kind was a quickie when we went on our first vacation this past february in Mexico, and before that it was about a year prior to that when she was pregnant and she gave me a handjob. (So twice in the last ~18 months) We have marriage counseling set to start next week I believe. Sorry for the length!
 

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My wife’s bestie has never had an orgasm. Her husband has a small penis and he’s a quick cummer, which might contribute to it. (Though I don’t know why she won’t use a vibe to get it done.) They’ve tried lotions to delay his sensations and last longer to no avail. She never turns her husband down for sex, though she may grimace and act unhappy when asked.

Scheduling for once a week seems like little to ask. That way she can relax the other six days knowing you won’t initiate.
 

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Early on in our marriage, we had a lot of problems that led to our separation in year six, like immaturity, porn addiction on my part, really unrealistic expectations, us dabbling in some unhealthy behavior to try to spur any kind of libido, etc. (Things like wife sharing)
I have some ideas, but they depend on more detail around this, especially the bolded.

Who's idea was this, what happened, and what has happened since?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
CraigBesuden: Heck I've thought about this too. Especially given that she had a couple of affairs years ago that certainly were sexual, but then again she and I were pretty sexual when we were in the early stages of our relationship as well. It's new, it's exciting, even illicit (we were teenagers, Christians too, so we were supposed to be saving it for marriage ya know), I get it. I really don't have any shame in this department. I'm about 6" hard, which is right about average I'm told but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if I'm not. My wife and past girlfriends have told me I'm of good girth too, for what that is worth. I don't think I'm a quick cummer, though again I wouldn't be offended if I found out I was, but I don't think it would matter because the few times we have had any sexual contact of any kind my wife has made clear that she wants me to finish as fast as possible. In fact that added pressure has often meant that I can't get off, meaning I'm lasting too long and she gives up or asks me to stop.

Others have asked if she ever masturbates. In years past, she did occasionally. Even while ignoring my needs I would find out that she would masturbate with her favorite vibrator probably about once a week or so. This was when she worked as a nurse working odd hours, so she would have a couple days a week with at least a few hours to herself at home. How did I know she was masturbating? I wanted to know for myself if she was getting herself off so I started checking the exact position of her vibrator in her drawer from time to time. Like the EXACT position, so I could tell if it had been moved, cleaned, taken out of it's bag and put back in, etc. Like I said though, to my knowledge she hasn't masturbated in a long time, or at least no where near as often as the once or so a week she used to. Honestly I'm not even sure when she would find the time to do so now, as we always have kids in the house needing our attention these days.
 

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CraigBesuden: Heck I've thought about this too. Especially given that she had a couple of affairs years ago that certainly were sexual, but then again she and I were pretty sexual when we were in the early stages of our relationship as well. It's new, it's exciting, even illicit (we were teenagers, Christians too, so we were supposed to be saving it for marriage ya know), I get it.
Wait, what? When did she have these affairs? Were you married?
 

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Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated.
People are who they are, and the notion that something needs to be fixed often will only serve to make the problem worse.

My advice would be to acknowledge that your wife has zero libido and let her know that it does not effect the love you have love for her, but that as a result you struggle to feel loved by her. Let her know that she does not need to be shamed for having no libido. Have a conversation about what you each need from one another to feel loved.

Her first step is to acknowledge that you have an active libido and that it is nothing for you to feel ashamed about it one way or the other. That is what it is. Just like her not having a libido, it is what it is.

Once you remove any shame (if there is any), THEN you can work towards what you need to do for one another to make each other feel loved and cared for in the marriage.

Regards,
Badsanta
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Marduk: I have one or two very long threads on this from the past but to try to summarize... basically the lack of sexual contact for so many years led me further into porn addiction. Porn use is a progressive addiction, meaning you can't use the same material over and over again without it getting stale and needing more, different material. Eventually I found myself turned on by the idea of watching her have sex with someone else. In my mind at the time, I thought that might even awaken her libido. I had some sexy photos of her that she had posed for in the months after our first child was born one lucky evening, and I hinted that I'd love to share one or two with a friend of mine. She allowed that, heard his compliments on the photos and was open to me taking and sharing more. She liked the attention, the compliments, etc. Over time that led to me sharing that I wouldn't mind seeing them be frisky. Most of this she was opposed to, but over time it started to turn her on as well, and eventually one evening while video games it just sort of happened. I think we played a racing game and turned it into strip racing somehow. They hooked up, and she had a blast. Then she jumped on me and that was great too. The next day she felt enormous guilt which I tried to help her cope with. Over the following months she would bounce back and forth from wanting to repeat it, to feeling guilty about it, but mostly she was good with it and for a while our sex life improved immeasurably. Eventually that stopped, but we were also into posting pics on a wife sharing board online, anonymously, but someone happened to recognize her somehow despite there being no face pictures. That person and his wife were basically swingers, and happened to be parents of a daughter who was in our daughter's class of all coincidences. We decided to get to know them a bit, to see where that went. Honestly I found them very weird, creepy, etc. and wasn't interested in hanging out with them at all, let alone anything more than that, but he started pursuing her behind my back. Given the other issues occurring in our marriage (like I mentioned earlier, immaturity, selfishness, unfair expectations, depression (hers), feeling inadequate (her), etc.), she was very susceptible to his advances and they ended up having an affair, without his wife's knowledge as well, which lasted several months. During that affair, she was so happy to just have the admiration/affection of another guy without any feelings of guilt, so she was ready to divorce me. When he bailed on her after getting caught, despite promising to run away with her essentially, she fell back into our relationship and in therapy we discovered how dysfunctional our marriage was, completely unrelated to the dabbling in wife sharing. That's how I learned about how my own views on the marriage were harming it as well, and creating an environment where intimacy couldn't really grow naturally. There is a LOT more to that story however.

So again, we screwed up, she would openly admit that she did as much as I did. I was and am completely willing to forgive/forget the past, meaning I am not really blaming her for being sexually reserved back then when she was married to a guy who was a bit of an *******. Since we got back together years later though, I regularly check in on my wife to see how I'm doing, I've offered therapy many times if need be, and she's always said that I'm doing great. I'm certainly not perfect by any stretch, but I'm very confident that even my wife would tell you that I've been a very good husband and father for the last 6+ years since we reconciled.
 

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...my wife has made clear that she wants me to finish as fast as possible. In fact that added pressure has often meant that I can't get off, meaning I'm lasting too long and she gives up or asks me to stop.
Let me give you another perspective on that. Imagine she feels sexually inadequate to ever please you. She knows you really want it. Yet when you do get down to business it seems like you want it but just not with her. How horrible must she be if you are desperate and can not climax with her during sex?

That is how low self esteem can manifest itself into some horrible sexual problems.

I totally get where you are coming from regarding the male point of view. No man wants duty sex, and then on top of that to be asked to hurry it up as fast as you can will mess with your head. Sex is about making an emotional connection, not about emptying the balls.

Just want you to see both points of view.

Regards,
Badsanta
 

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CDBaker, we need to confront the elephant in the room right off the bat. If the wife you have today is the wife you have for the rest of your life and not a single thing changes in the frequency of your sex life/other forms of intimacy, is that good enough for you? Would that be a deal breaker? How long could you go exactly as you are today before you would be looking to divorce her?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
BadSanta: Great advice. Like I mentioned, I've said as much to her recently as well. Basically that, perhaps it's unrealistic to expect that her libido will grow over time, with or without therapy or any other active steps like medication or anything like that. If that's the case, I've made clear to her that I certainly still love her, but that her ignoring my needs like this for years on end has led me to feel completely unloved and unvalued by her, so we need to come up with an alternative solution, one that doesn't rely on waiting for years for her to feel "in the mood" some day. I'm hoping that marital therapy will help with this.

Marduk: Yeah, like I said, there were affairs. Some were traditional PA's, some EA's, some were more of a once or twice off kind of thing. All told... two PA's (one about six months which is the one I described in brief above, one that was technically about two years which kicked off our separation), two that were basically once or twice off encounters of opportunity (one was a former boyfriend she ran into at a bowling alley while out with friends and saw again once or twice that week on her own, the other wise another wife sharing forum guy who found us and she connected with at least once or twice as well without my knowledge), and there was actually one EA just over two years ago that lasted about two months. Another former boyfriend who reached out to her on FB. Never went to PA, never was even really emotional in the sense that there were no expressions of love or running away together, but it was a hidden text/online chat relationship in which they discussed inappropriate things and occasionally discussed getting together to hook up. Mostly it was him pestering her about wanting to see her and her playing coy and sometimes feeding his lust a bit, making and then canceling plans. After I discovered this "relationship" I tracked it privately for about a month to see how deep it went and how far it went without them knowing, so I'm confident I know the extent of what happened. When I busted her is when I told her she needed to either move out or commit to finding a therapist. She did neither, and I ended up not following through on enforcing it, so that's my fault of course. Now I'm finally enforcing the therapist element, which is what we're trying to schedule to begin now.

For what it's worth, her old therapist has shared with me that she felt all of the old "affairs" were not the result of her wanting out of the marriage, but rather depression and low self esteem. All of the guys she engaged with in any form were ...for lack of a better word, beneath her. Two were twice her age and out of work, nearly homeless. One was a cable installer, another an exterminator, both were overweight and married. My wife is young, attractive, and is a registered nurse with a good income, so she could "do better" as it relates to finding a man if she wants to, but her therapist said that what gave these guys a chance is the very fact that they were "beneath her" in terms of desirability. None of them could ever make her feel unworthy or undesirable, because it was obvious they would be lucky to have her.

For the record, I'm quite confident that she's not cheating in any form right now, nor has she since the suedo-EA two years ago. If anything, our marriage has improved in many ways since then, and I've learned to be very tuned in to the various signs of infidelity in a spouse.
 

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CDBaker, I wasn’t implying that you are small or a quick cummer. Just that my wife’s bestie, who clearly gets nothing out of it, doesn’t turn her husband down for sex.
 

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In all honesty, it might just be that she’s checked out of the marriage, and isn’t interested in having sex with you at all. A lot of women’s sex drives are much higher than those of men, mine is one of them. I could happily have sex twice a day. When I was married though, my (now XH) shot me down regularly in the first year of marriage. So, I stopped initiating. During the course of our almost 4 year marriage, there were numerous things that pushed me in the direction of checking out, and in the end, I killed my sex drive because just the thought of sleeping with him made me want to vomit. And yes, I talked to him about our marriage issues quite a bit.

Talk to your wife: has she checked out? What keeps her in the marriage? What makes her smile? Maybe she really is going through a depression and needs some help through that. Does she have another man in her life?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Nekonamida: Yep, this is something that's been on my mind for a while now. Say we do marriage counseling, or she ends up doing IC, or we try many counselors, and the end result is that she is simply not willing to take any step to improved our sex life in any form whatsoever, period. I don't know what I would do. The marriage was improving so much that we decided to have two more kids who are just one and three years old now. With that said, I don't think I could continue to live the way we do now forever. I think hope is what keeps me going now, but if that hope was gone, I think we would have to divorce. NOT just because she doesn't want to have sex with me, but because it would mean she doesn't love/value me enough to even go through the motions of meeting my needs.

There are lots of things we all do for our spouses that we don't feel like doing, that's not news to anyone. That is the single biggest issue that bothers me now. Even if her having a libido is just not in the cards for her, it's never going to happen, then I still can't find any reasonable explanation for why she's willing to put us through all of this for years on end and more recently this daily misery of avoiding me, appearing to be miserable and angry, etc. unless it's the fact that she just doesn't love me (maybe never did) and feels guilty/depressed about it.

Because seriously. Not to get graphic about it, but even leaning over and using a gel masturbator sex story on me for five minutes until I get off would count for something. It's humiliating for me to say to her, but I've specifically said even that would be ok. Seriously, she could keep her nose in her phone the whole time if need be. Why on earth is she not willing to give even an ounce of energy to me?
 

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Wow! That's a lot going on there. I am glad you noted the potential for asexual. It was a possibility I was going to mention. There is also a chance that something has changed in her body that has suppressed the sex drive to practically nothing. This could also be a possible source of her anger and frustration.

Another possibility might be some kind of borderline autism or other condition where she can experience sensory overload from physical contact.

In any case, it would probably be prudent to have a full physical done to check for issues. Now if it ends up being something physical and correctable, you should be good to go. If not then you will have lots of choices to make.

Therapy/counceling is a def, especially if you want to continue the marriage. But she has to put in her efforts as well. This issue to making a relationship work long term is making sure both of your needs are met. If not there is going to be frustrations and resentment that brews. As to what solutions are available to you depends on what kind of people you and your wife are.

Most everyone need to have both their emotional and their sexual needs met. For some, they have to be met by the same person. For others, as long as they are met, it doesn't have to be the same person. Both you and your wife have to figure out which you are. As the latter, more options are available. The former, not so much. There is no wrong or right between the two, just what is wrong or right for you and your wife.

Regardless, you need the relationship therapy first, to help you determine where you both fall. As a suggestion, ask your daughter for help. As a mid to late teen, while not quite ready to be on her own, she is surely capable in assisting in the selection of a family/marriage therapist, and your wife can't attribute the girl's motives to "getting daddy laid". She is going to want what is best for mom and you.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Craig: No worries, I understand. I just wanted to point out that heck, I'm probably not a very good lay these days, lol. I've been denied for so long, I'm WAY out of practice. I have no problem admitting that.

Ursula: Maybe she is checked out... but I don't know. We've had lots of good moments in the last year or two, even very recently. For a while I tried dropping any slight hint of sexual contact and she did become much more open to hugs, kisses, even cuddling, etc. But when I tried to take it a step further, everything shut down again. I think she's mostly addicted to her phone, she spends most of her time there on Facebook, instagram, etc. She loves spending time with her family, hates her job mostly, and being with our kids. Honestly I'm pretty certain there is no one else in the picture. Back when that was a concern, she was always super secretive, hiding her phone, making excuses to go out without me, "staying late" at work, etc. None of that is happening, and I do keep an eye out for it. I'm pretty certain that her depression is a HUGE reason for what has been happening. She's been off and on anti-depressions since she was a teenager, and right now she is off of them because of some side effects I believe. As I said, she has never ever had a high sex drive, and I really don't think she wants a divorce at all either. Heck just a week ago, even after I told her that I want us to commit to marriage therapy, she was asking me for my thoughts on if we want to have another baby. Maybe she's just taking me for granted? Figuring she's gotten away with it this long that I probably won't actually force the issue or leave?
 

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CD,
There is a certain amount of completely nonverbal signaling in a marriage. For a man - especially a man who is the primary or sole breadwinner, the proposal or acceptance of the idea of having more children is the strongest possible signal of:
1. Complete acceptance of how they are being treated
2. A desire to continue the marriage long term

By choosing to have two children BEFORE resolving this issue, you very clearly messaged that you were ok continuing to be sexless. By choosing to have two more children AFTER 13-15 years of a sexually broken marriage - you signalled acceptance.

It doesn't matter what you say now. You sent that incredibly strong message - not once - but twice in a short period of time.

IIRC - she always seemed happy to have your financial support - despite not respecting you - and that hasn't changed at all.


Hi folks, it's been a long time since I've posted. My full story is very long (you can probably see my old posts under my profile if you'd really like to) so I will try my best to keep this short.

Essentially, for the entirety of my wife and I's married lives, we've lived in a mostly sexless marriage. By that I mean, in nearly 16 years of marriage (separated for about three of those years) we've probably averaged some form of sexual activity maaaaybe two or three times a year, if that. To clarify what "sexual activity" means, I mean literally any kind of sexual activity, ranging from full penetrative sex, to oral sex, hand stuff, playing with toys, etc. Early on in our marriage, we had a lot of problems that led to our separation in year six, like immaturity, porn addiction on my part, really unrealistic expectations, us dabbling in some unhealthy behavior to try to spur any kind of libido, etc. (Things like wife sharing) It was messy, but we grew from that, figured out most of our messes and have been back together for the last six or so years and have since had two more children, ages 1 and 3.

My hope had been... and she assured me at the time this would happen... that as part of our maturing and figuring out the various ways that we drove our marriage into a ditch, that our sex life would grow and become healthy as well. Prior to the separation, she never had any interest in sex of any kind, any activity, but again I had hoped it was because of our marriage being unhealthy at that time. But while our marriage is SIGNIFICANTLY healthier than it ever was before, there has been absolutely zero growth in the sexual relations department. If anything, it's regressed, now to a point that it's absolutely causing the marriage to suffer. Nowadays, most nights she is quiet, nose in her phone, avoiding me at all cost, going to bed early, pretending to be too tired or sore or aching or tired or anything to so much as look at me, let alone speak, or engage in any contact whatsoever. Contact meaning she doesn't even want to touch, hug/kiss hello or goodbye or goodnight, nothing. The discomfort is thick in the air. She will go to extreme lengths throughout the day to set the stage for avoiding contact that day/night, like casually mentioning headaches, back pain, fatigue, etc. then repeat them in the evening to shut down any notion of contact. Unless plans change, in which case she suddenly feels fine and will invite people over or go out herself or whatever.

To be clear, we've talked about this stuff. I've relayed to her many times how incredibly important having a sexual relationship with my wife is. If you're into the "Five Love Languages", mine is definitely physical touch, which certainly involves much more than just sexual stuff but she wants no contact with me at all. She doesn't handle criticism well, she never has, so she refuses to talk about it most of the time or just sits and gets angrier whenever I try to gently bring anything up. I go to GREAT lengths on a daily basis to treat her like a queen as well, giving her anything she wants, doing everything I can for her, offering to help with anything, giving her back rubs/foot rubs, making her meals, fetching her treats, anything I can. I work on her love languages every day, but I can't think of any effort she has made purely on my behalf in months. Until recently, I tried not to even push her for sexual activity, I try to romance her to see if I can have it come naturally, but it doesn't happen, so lately I've been trying to just very gently outright ask her. We've been married a long time, so I know romance sometimes is hard to come by so I just started asking her. In fact, I've been gently, lovingly asking her every night for a couple weeks now, where as in the past it was more like once a month. My hope has been that maybe I could get her to see how much she rejects me, to see if she runs out of excuses. Instead, it's just been making her angry and depressed. So last week, I reminded her that she had promised me two years ago that she would find us a marriage counselor to help us out, and told her I wanted her to do that.

Since then, she's been even more angry and depressed. Even our 15 year old daughter has noticed it a lot lately. She's just mad, every day. I'm setting appointments up with a counselor, and I know she's dreading it. She seems to be assuming that the whole point of the counseling is to get her to have sex with me, but that's certainly not what it's about. Heck, I wanted HER to pick a counselor so that she wouldn't think that I picked someone who would be favorable to my needs. I want to fix whatever the problem is, not just make her have sex with me.

So the first thing, I'd love your thoughts on what I've shared so far. Secondly... I've heard from other women before, and folks here on the forums, that it's not uncommon at all for men to have a higher sex drive than women, especially when you've been married for a long time. I've also heard that it's somewhat common for wives to recognize this, and because they love their husbands, sometimes they just go along with it for his sake. I'm not saying "faking it" necessarily, but just recognizing his needs and being willing to commit 10-20 minutes to help him out. Sometimes even scheduling it, lol. One of my assistants once told me that she and her husband had to schedule it for every Thursday, and she usually wasn't excited about it but was happy to put in the effort every week "because he deserves it, for being a good guy, husband and father." So the part that bugs me is... I work damn hard to be a good husband, father and person. I make dinner every night, clean up the house, spend lots of time with the kids, hardly ever see my friends save for maybe four or five times a year, I really do treat her like a queen, give her all kinds of time to herself while I take on the kids or other projects, etc. Even if there is no hope for her libido, even if she will never be personally sexually excited again, why can't she give me just that little bit of effort every so often to show me that she cares? That I'm important to her? It's not ideal, but hell that would mean so much to me.

So that's what I mean by the "(Loveless?)" part of this thread title. These days I've increasingly believing that perhaps she just doesn't love me, and the guilt is contributing to her anger/depression. I figure even if it came out that she is asexual, I still can't rationalize why she couldn't make a little effort to throw me so much as a handjob every now and then and a few hugs/kisses. My understanding is that even asexual people still enjoy physical contact with their loved ones, just maybe not sexual contact.

Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated. As of now, the last time we had sexual contact of any kind was a quickie when we went on our first vacation this past february in Mexico, and before that it was about a year prior to that when she was pregnant and she gave me a handjob. (So twice in the last ~18 months) We have marriage counseling set to start next week I believe. Sorry for the length!
 

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I hear you, CDB. That's basically exactly what I wanted to know and how I view it too. You're willing to compromise and you're in a good spot if you can see that she needs to compromise too.

It could be a litany of issues. It difficult to say what's going on with any certainty. Asexual? Who knows but probably not due to the multiple affairs. Just not that into you? Maybe. Exacerbated by small children and lots of pregnancy/PPD/other health issues? Probably to some degree. Addicted to the thrill of new partners as a requirement for being sexual? Probably also to some degree.

What you can do before MC in the mean time is to stop asking about sex and try to detach from her a little bit. Be kind and supportive but let her come to you for anything social related. Give her some space and take a little space yourself because smothering her, no matter how kindly you're doing it and how infrequently, is going to have the opposite results that you want. Step back and see if she chases you at all. The good news is if she is checked out, this also won't hurt your relationship in any way.

In this same part of TAM as your thread, there is one by a poster named Holdingontoit. I think you should read it because it's a great example of what happens when everything goes wrong, nothing improves, but you still stay in a sexless/loveless marriage. If you spend too much time on this, there will come a time when even if she does initiate, you will turn her down because you aren't comfortable anymore with intimacy with her. He's not the only man I've known to do this and Ursula clearly found herself in the same boat too. Ideally you want to make a choice about whether this can be saved or not BEFORE this happens. Because once it does, divorce becomes your only way out.

The worst part about this is that NO ONE can make your wife do anything. Not you, not the therapist, not us, NO ONE. You can do every single little thing right from this point forward. You can install a vibrating ring to your shaft, start ****ting gold, and orgasming silver and your wife still won't bite. Because she doesn't want to. And no one can make her. The threat of separation wasn't even enough for her to spend 10 minutes on Google looking up a therapist and booking an appointment. She has to want it and right now she does not want it at all. That could change. Stranger things have happened. But if it doesn't, you will never have the marriage that you crave with her.
 

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if you keep treating her like some sort of queen, you will keep getting the spoiled princess. Just stop.
I really don't know that I would take advice from me If I was you. After all my track record in similar circumstance is abysmal.
The first thing you need to do is come to terms with the Idea that she isn't interested in you. Once you have abandoned hope things will be easier.
No expectation, No disappointment.
If you pay the bills, Let the phone expire. It's not just games she is playing.
Buy a new bed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
MEM2020: Sounds reasonable. I guess I just need to figure out how to move forward now. Can her libido be salvaged? Can she commit to respecting my needs going forward? If necessary, can I learn what ways I contributed to this and change accordingly as well? Or can I push it to the point of separation or divorce and potentially move on if need be? We'll see I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Mr. Nail: I've occasionally slept on the couch or spare bed, just because I'm so frustrated/infuriated by the situation on a given night. I have tried mostly ignoring her, stopping all of the little things I do to try to make her feel loved. I've done so for months at a time in fact, but it never seemed to make much difference. When I'm treating her like a Queen she does seem happier and will occasionally give me praises, thanking me, hugs, kisses, etc. Those are all appreciated, but pretty meaningless when the single biggest issue is so knowingly ignored.

I've read the Married Man's Sex Primer 2011 as well. Good book, and I employed a lot of it's suggestions, but it never seemed to change anything.
 
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