Talk About Marriage banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi All,

Posted my story of my wife and I going thru some tough times in the other forums. Basically I became the standard beta male/Nice Guy/doormat and pushed her away while she found some alpha EA on the side (BTW, she is a true alpha female).

Thru the help of many people here and suggested readings I caught it in time (I think) and have made big changes. We aired all our dirty laundry, I called her out on the EAs, we decided marriage is worthy of saving and are working things out. My wife and I are on good terms now although we are still working thru the things that need to change to continue building our relationship for the better (talk a lot about the changes we need, we have talked alpha/beta, nice guy......(all makes sense now)........and SEX.

One hurdle we still need to overcome: SEX

Our 8 year rut sex: Being the nice guy I generally like her to go first then I go.....there is one position that she can orgasm within 20-25 minutes (doggie with everything being stimulated if you know what I mean).

Fast forward to today. She opened up to me (finally) and said she really does not like the way we have sex. It is forced and structured. She does not like my beta male ways and wants me to be more in charge........

What she really wants me to do: Be more selfish, more of a man, do not worry about her and just f&*k her and not worry about whether she orgasms or not. She even said doing this turns her on more than orgasm itself and make her feel desired and wanted (my beta male says this sounds more like the opposite, not caring about the other more than just a piece of [email protected]#). Of course being beta male for so long I need to change my habits completely. Old days......we would have sex ~45 minutes until she orgasms, then I. Now if I just focus on myself (and not the position she can orgasm) I may only last 15-20 minutes tops.....without her having an orgasm.

Questions:

--To the women out there: can anyone relate? Any insight and/or advice into where she is coming from?

--While working on more alpha/aggressive behavior, any sex tips to improve this aspect in our marriage?

--While our last few sexual encounters have been more to her liking (I initiate (before she did much of time), we go crazy for 20 minutes tops, then done), I still wonder what she is thinking with this style of sex? Does she just want more variety? More being dominated? More of something? I enjoy it but am still puzzled by this change.....so if anyone can help me understand this better it would be great.

Thanks for reading!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,107 Posts
While our last few sexual encounters have been more to her liking (I initiate (before she did much of time), we go crazy for 20 minutes tops, then done), I still wonder what she is thinking with this style of sex? Does she just want more variety? More being dominated? More of something? I enjoy it but am still puzzled by this change.....so if anyone can help me understand this better it would be great.
I suggest you mix it up. Use a new position one time. Pound her like crazy the next. Tie her up the next. She'll probably give you clues when she's really enjoying herself.

She's given you some ideas. You just need to trust her that she's telling you the truth. And she probably is. There's a reason why 50 Shades of Grey has sold 40 million copies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
She does not like my beta male ways and wants me to be more in charge........

What she really wants me to do: Be more selfish, more of a man, do not worry about her and just f&*k her and not worry about whether she orgasms or not. She even said doing this turns her on more than orgasm itself and make her feel desired and wanted (my beta male says this sounds more like the opposite, not caring about the other more than just a piece of [email protected]#). Of course being beta male for so long I need to change my habits completely...
I have a true alpha wife as well.

You need to note that there is a paradox here. By submitting to her wants (involving you acting more alpha-like) you are still behaving as a beta.

Now that she's 'opened up' to you as to her wants, you need to sit down and define your wants and then share them with her. You should also address any concerns you might have about anything that she's asking you to do that makes you uncomfortable.

Your issues here are a close reflection of my issues with my wife. The problem for me personally is that I do not find 'dominating' and 'more selfish' more 'manly'. I think of this sort of behavior as the exact opposite of manly, and have refused to engage in requests she's made that I find appalling or demeaning.

I enjoy it but am still puzzled by this change.....so if anyone can help me understand this better it would be great.
As long as what she's asking for is enjoyable to both of you, I think you're fine. But if you really want to lesson your 'beta' behavior... you might want to consider what it is that you want without defaulting to the 'I just want to please her' answer.

I can't help you understand 'why' she wants to be treated this way. The more my W wants to be 'submissive' the less I want anything to do with her. It's a huge turn-off for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,292 Posts
I am a huge fan of "nice guys" not door mats but genuinely nice or good men. I am dating a man that is caring, considerate, romantic. We are great friends, we have a fantastic time together.
This is all well and good outside of the bedroom.

But in the bedroom he is not a Mr nice guy, it's perfect. It is hard to explain but I need for him to be a little bit rough, to be in charge and to just go for it. It drives me wild when he pulls my hair, bites me, picks me up and we do it against the wall.
Being an in charge woman, independent and strong willed I want my guy to be stronger than me in our intimate life. It makes me feel desired like raw animal instinct.

There is always respect though and lots of laughter as well. There are also the times when I give him a BJ or he has a super intense orgasm that I am the one in charge and this makes me feel sexually powerful.

Just go with what your wife wants, enjoy the freedom of not having to be so polite and accommodating. keep the respect there but just give it to her like a wild man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,208 Posts
Gunthar,

have fun with this. Really let you mind go and start conjuring up some fantasies (if you already have not).

Next time you know the kids are not going to be home. Walk through the door tell her to get naked and get you started. Then I suggest you tell her to bend over the ottoman and have at it.

Damn I want an ottoman for Christmas!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,107 Posts
You need to note that there is a paradox here. By submitting to her wants (involving you acting more alpha-like) you are still behaving as a beta.
That's not true at all. There's a big difference in giving your wife what she needs, and is willing to ask for, and deferring to your wife. Most women need a man with an alpha edge. The OP's wife is just self-aware enough to know it.

A beta convincing himself that acting alpha is actually acting beta (and vice versa) is just the male rationalization hamster playing tricks on you.

Your issues here are a close reflection of my issues with my wife. The problem for me personally is that I do not find 'dominating' and 'more selfish' more 'manly'. I think of this sort of behavior as the exact opposite of manly, and have refused to engage in requests she's made that I find appalling or demeaning.
The thing is, it doesn't matter what you think about the behavior. It matters what your wife thinks. If your wife thinks that dominating behavior is sexy, you can't talk her out of that. That's just the way she thinks. You have to accept it. You can either be sexy to your wife, or you can be unsexy. That's the choice you have. You can't influence your wife to think that beta is sexy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Here are some technical tips:

1) When shifting positions, don't ask her. Just toss her to the side and start turning her body. Tell her what you want if she asks, but don't offer it up.

2) If you're doing missionary, put one of your arms underneath the base of her back. Pull her towards you when thrusting. Occasionally penetrate deeply and hold her to you.

3) Work out. Once you can build up enough strength you can do some awesome positions that depend on you holding her weight. For example, a position where you are standing up and she is wrapped around you.

4) Stretch her legs. Another example while doing missionary is to grab her leg and pull it closer to her chest.

5) Try shower sex if you can support her - I bet she'll love being pinned up against the wall

6) Breathe roughly in her ear

7) Be sure to be somewhat verbal. Just make sure whatever noises you make are very deep.

8) In general, don't ask her what she wants. Don't even ask her to do what you want. Either physically move her or tell her what she wants.

9) Tie up her hands. A lot of people do it to where she can still get out of it, but make sure the knot is secure.

10) If you're trying 9) or something where she could potentially really not like it, make sure to establish a safe word with her.

*Edit* After you're done, don't talk. Don't ask her if it was good for her, just catch your breath. If you roll to her side, make sure that you are positioned higher for her just in case she wants to lay her head on your chest.

I also can't emphasize how much being in shape can help. Not only will it naturally boost your T levels, you'll also be able to go for longer without tiring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
My husband is pretty aggressive in bed. I'm not alpha at all though...he's much more dominant than me. It's a huge turn on for me. For some women, like me, part of what turns me on and helps me orgasm is the mental part.

I LOVE that he wants me...that he NEEDS me to give him pleasure. He oozes manliness and that's a huge turn on.

What some men aren't understanding is he is in no way demeaning me. Alpha personality does not = selfish A-hole. Even when the sex is raw and animal like he is loving me. I have issues with endometriosis and ovarian cysts that sometimes makes certain positions painful for me. My husband will ask me if I'm ok when doing these positions. He stops if at any time I say it hurts. To me it adds to his manliness. Yes he's big, yes he's strong, yes he can easily hurt me...but he never would intentionally. Instead he protects me from any hurt. THAT is very manly and sexy.

I personally believe a mix of take charge sex and romance is the perfect mix. He'll be the first to admit he's not the romantic type. LOL Do I wish he'd be a little romantic sometimes? Yes, but I love and accept him as he is.

He never asks me if I want sex. To me that would be weird. He will often text me when either of us are at work that he wants to bang the sh!t out of me when he gets home or some other similar comment. He doesn't tell me he's going to make love to me or act all mushy. Maybe you can try doing something like that with your wife.

I'd also like to add, my hubby isn't a selfish lover. Yes sometimes it's all about him, but he loves to make me orgasm. I could see it as getting mundane if it was the same routine each time, as you've mentioned it is with your wife. Switch it up a bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
The thing is, it doesn't matter what you think about the behavior. It matters what your wife thinks. If your wife thinks that dominating behavior is sexy, you can't talk her out of that. That's just the way she thinks. You have to accept it. You can either be sexy to your wife, or you can be unsexy. That's the choice you have. You can't influence your wife to think that beta is sexy.
That's not true at all. =)

Sex isn't going to happen for either one of us if I'm not excited and aroused. Since I find 'male dominating behavior' repugnant, I am neither excited nor aroused. I have a lack of physical response.

IE: Upon seeing a woman tied to the bed, some men will see an exciting sexual opportunity and become aroused. Others men will see it as a humiliating position for her to be found in, and want to untie them. Neither is 'wrong' in how they feel, but only one of these two men will have desire for sex.

So, what I (personally) think about a behavior, does indeed matter to me. It's the choice my wife has. She can't influence me to think it's sexy. It works both ways,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
.
Being an in charge woman, independent and strong willed I want my guy to be stronger than me in our intimate life. It makes me feel desired like raw animal instinct.
OP, this may be at the root of your wife's desires.
Holland also mentioned respect, which is a must.

What she may be asking for, with knowledge or unwittingly, is a little bit of a Dominant/submissive scene in the bedroom. Don't freak out, there's varying degrees of this "kink," and it does not have to involve ropes, whips, and gags.

Depending on your communication level, I would ask her, suggestively, what she would like-- hair pulling, a$$ spanking, for you to command her (suck my d*** slvt!), and then next time you're intimate, throw a little something into the mix.
A D/s relationship (sexually speaking) can be very satisfying for the both of you, if you're at all interested. She gets to put away her take-control persona and you get to make all the decisions and have your partner worship you and your c0ck, in a sense.

People who don't understand the dynamic may say that it's demeaning to the sub. In most cases, that is far from the truth. A sub gives of herself (or himself) willingly. It's a gift to her Dom, and in turn, herself because it's what she wants. And a good Dom learns his subs desires and her limits and at the end of it all, cares for her, offering real affection.

IRL, I'm a serial monogomist, dress fairly modestly, no short skirts, very little cleavage, but I LOVE being called a filthy w4ore, dirty little girl, and horny $1ut in bed (or in flirty vm's, emails, or texts). I would loathe this in day-to-day conversations, I prefer babe, sweetheart, mama... And of course, I hate violence against women, but I love being spanked, having my hair pulled, and a little squeezing (my wrists as they're pinned down, or my neck as he takes control.)

Anyway, there's lots of fun to be had, from dirty talk, to demanding that she go commando at work as foreplay for both of you. And there's lots of stuff on the Internet: ideas, templates for guidelines, and awesome erotic photography.

Or, I'm way off base and this idea appalls one or both of you.

In any case, sounds like new things are going to be happening in your sex life, so ENJOY!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,107 Posts
So, what I (personally) think about a behavior, does indeed matter to me. It's the choice my wife has. She can't influence me to think it's sexy. It works both ways,
Right. I never said your views don't matter to you. I said they don't matter to your wife. Just as your wife's views don't matter to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,301 Posts
I don't buy into all this alpha beta stuff. I believe we're all individuals and each respond differently to the same stimulus. I think it's quite common for women to want a man who exudes confidence. I think most women want their man to be assertive and not wishy washy. They want to feel he desires them and is passionate about his desire.

As for your sex with your wife I would suggest following your imagination while guaging her responses. If you try going a certain route and you sense it's exciting her than go for it. If you sense it's not really doing anything for her than try something different. I would take her instructions to you to take license to really push the boundaries wherever your imagination takes you.

Enjoy!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,107 Posts
I don't buy into all this alpha beta stuff. I believe we're all individuals and each respond differently to the same stimulus.
People aren't snowflakes. People are just people. And most people like the same things, or similar enough that we can make generalizations. Most women think Brad Pitt is more attractive than John Goodman.

As for alpha/beta, they're just labels for types of behaviors. Alpha is used to describe behaviors that women tend to find attractive.

I think it's quite common for women to want a man who exudes confidence. I think most women want their man to be assertive and not wishy washy. They want to feel he desires them and is passionate about his desire.
You're right. And all of those behaviors are what we call alpha behaviors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
Your issues here are a close reflection of my issues with my wife. The problem for me personally is that I do not find 'dominating' and 'more selfish' more 'manly'. I think of this sort of behavior as the exact opposite of manly, and have refused to engage in requests she's made that I find appalling or demeaning.
I'm with you on that Mr Vanilla.

I think it's important though to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

For example, vampire stories are a genre of literature that a great many women find interesting and erotic. Imaginary vampires are a harmless fantasy. They don't really exist. But a real vampire would be a dangerous predator, murderer and a monster.

Fifty Shades Of Grey is a similar phenomenon. A great many women find this series to be interesting and erotic. Christian Grey as a fictitious character is a harmless fantasy. A real, flesh and blood Christian Grey complete with a past history of sexual abuse driving his predatory tendencies would be a sociopath at best.

Similarly, fantasies in the bedroom are just fantasies. They're not a pure reflection of who we really are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Many thanks for the comments and suggestions.

I will say her attitude is a complete about-face from where we stood back in August (low point in marriage....fights, no or bad sex, talking divorce, she having a EA).

Came home form work yesterday and gave her the classic 10 second kiss.....grabbed her p$%sy and she was moaning.....wow....run to bedroom and you can guess what next :) and that is with 6 kids running around the house!

Great advice from all. Letting it sink in and will go a bit slow at first so that I do not cross any lines.

One thing that I am puzzled by is that over the past 7 years I thought we were doing ok sexually (first year or two I know we were on FIRE....did it everywhere (even in public such as restaurants, movie theaters, etc.))........but I guess not.

Not sure why my wife waited all this long to say something (maybe some subtle hints but sometimes I need a sledgehammer to get thru to me). My guess is that her EAs and dreaming of a more passionate, dynamic relationship (like when people meet early and are under the fog/dopamine effect) has changed her for the good.

Another good thing about our divorce talk/her EAs is that she is taking much better care of herself now, dropped 30 pounds, dresses up more, and is much more of a turn-on for me as she is acting more sexual (talk about a rut we have been in...did not realize it was so bad).

Also, I am still keeping a close eye on her per suggestions of others on this sight......for obvious reasons as that is how I found out about what she was thinking/doing while I was away.

BTW, I did mirror her actions...dropped 40lbs to my college weight, lifting weights, dressing nicer. That and finding the "alpha" that has been hidden for many years has made me much more content with where I am......maybe I did move up the sexual rank a bit in my wife's eyes........save marriage and reignite sexual spark all at same time....hope so....:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,190 Posts
Gunthar said: --To the women out there: can anyone relate? Any insight and/or advice into where she is coming from?

--While working on more alpha/aggressive behavior, any sex tips to improve this aspect in our marriage?

--While our last few sexual encounters have been more to her liking (I initiate (before she did much of time), we go crazy for 20 minutes tops, then done), I still wonder what she is thinking with this style of sex? Does she just want more variety? More being dominated? More of something? I enjoy it but am still puzzled by this change.....so if anyone can help me understand this better it would be great.

Isn't it funny how Alpha's & Beta's pair up together... Opposites attracting again. Very common... and for good reason.. I've found this can work very well -if you can work it all out.

I can relate to your wife...

If you guys have 6 kids (we do also).... It sounds you are in MID LIFE.... and well... this happens... happened to me too, I married the
Nice guy type (totally genuine - major pleaser, My pleasure = His pleasure)... I have always been satisfied in bed...not 1 complaint in 19 long yrs...then I hit Mid Life, let's just say my Mid Life Crisis was "all sexual"....something was happening in my body & to my psych.

He also, was the type...he LOVED when I came on to him.....even waited for this at times...He's never cared for "the chase" either like most men. IF he got the slightest idea I was not "into him", he would roll over (tooooo sensitive here)...I didn't even realize he was hurting.

I do believe this caused me some "Apathy"- without putting my finger on it... so our sex life could have been so much more "sexually charged" & exciting over the years had he just came after me and SHOWED me his need ~instead he stuffed it.... plus he was never very verbal ....playing it up flirting/ teasing/ putting a fire under me..... telling me what he wanted to do to me...type thing.... He was more silent -the touchy feely sensual type. Then I was off being "repressed" - we didn't talk about sex ~ biggest blunders of our marriage.

What she really wants me to do: Be more selfish, more of a man, do not worry about her and just f&*k her and not worry about whether she orgasms or not.
I can NOT relate to forgoing the orgasm .... OH NEVER! I want that - or he'd be in trouble, he'd have to go another round -- he could do that once upon a time, not today.

I never went outside the marriage due to frustration though.... I just came to this forum and yakked my way through all of this......When he couldn't keep up with my insatiable sex cravings (as woman age, our Test levels go up - our "PRIME" -whereas men's is early 20's) ~ cruel joke from our Maker, I say. :(

I ended up sending my husband to get his Testosterone checked... he was on the lower end of normal..(Encron said his levels were normal for a 60 yr old man, he was only 45 ~ that comment worried me for months)....

I must say... I DO believe this plays a role in men being tipped on the Beta scale....Testosterone levels and also inborn Temperment.....in my opinion... I've read a couple books on Testosterone & how it affects our minds/actions ...and Temperments ...did a thread HERE (with tests).

Not that we can't UP our ways a little...BE adventurous, push our own boundaries...... we can!! For some of us...a little aggression comes very naturally (I am one of those) and for others, it is going against everything they hold dear. For instance....my husband despises porn where women appear to be demeaned. He thinks men who walk into a bar & want to throw around their alpha behavior (sometimes picking fights - clearly this is the BAD alpha) are the biggest A-holes that roam the earth. So it IS a struggle for such men to accually BE Selfish, be a Pric*. This flows over into sexuality too....at least for MY husband it has.

What we've learned through this ......He is turned on by MY sexually aggressive nature - in wanting him... Lucky for him I guess!!
...because it is just not him so much. And for me to get my hopes up that he will play this "Aggressive role" to MY LIKING and fantasies... I've been let down... sorry to say...I've had to let this go.... I am the more adventerous creative force between us, this is not going to change...He is ALWAYS up for the ride though ~ so in this I am blessed.

He has told me..."I am a Lover, not a Fighter".... "Making Love" is HIS thing, he doesn't even use the term "sex"... he'd never use "Fu**" --he is a sensual romantic through & through. Took a lover style test, HE is the Devoted, I am the Casanova... IT is what it is .

I DO
this, so it is not all bad. I count my blessings.


I recall one fight I had with him ...telling him I want him to be more of an "SOB" in bed, now if that is not the most rediculous thing ever....after it was over, we :rofl: so hard...Had him pinned down once on top of him naked... telling him exactly what I wanted him to do to me... practically growling at him...- result -this turned him on !! End of fight... We've had some really funny moments trying to get through this.

My 1st thread here was about this issue 3 yrs ago...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/9574-husbands-who-not-dominate-enough-wives-who-how-reverse-roles.html


One of my favorite books on Hormones....this link touches on what sex therapists call ...."RAPE Fantasies"... (this is not talking about accual Rape).....but it is very common for women to have such fantasies... Romance novels are full of them.... in these fantasies, she sees the MAN as the hapless victim who has lost control... this is what we are turned on by... you can scroll back some - on this page link & read about this - to get a better idea of why some women want this aggression, it is all about LUST/passion/ loosing control ... feeling his need. That's HOT!

The Alchemy of Love and Lust - Theresa L. Crenshaw - Google Books

One of my books -written by a Sex therapist...spoke how we WANT some selfishness in the bedroom....this is good.... it speaks to the "wanting/ needing/lusting" part of our natures.... think about it... if we felt our partner was just " Pleasing us", doing us a favor -we start to question - are they getting anything out of this.. that is disheartening to the max in sex... sinking... BORING even.... Nothing is more exciting than knowing your partner is SO damn into you, hot for you, high & reveling in the pleasurable moment - that we can FEEL, smell, taste their excitement for us.

That makes for the best sex - passion overload !

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
It is so obvious that the OPs wife is looking for the same type of sex as she had during her EA with the alpha male. He admitted that his beta pushed her away and it s apparent that she gets off on a little less romantic banging and more of a hyper, sweaty screwing.

So if I were the OP, either give her what she wants in bed or she will get it elsewhere. The track record is there as proof.
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top