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Discussion Starter #41
To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.
 

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At the very least she should be telling him, look the sex isn't good and working to make it better. Spouses who don't communicate their unhappiness are bad spouses even if it's difficult. Sometimes you need to have thoughtful productive confrontation to have a better marriage.
EXACTLY what I was saying in my post that folks disagreed with -- TALK WITH YOUR WIFE. It's amazing to me how many married folks don't or can't do that.
 

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While I sorta appreciate your thoughts, there’s so many assumptions about me and my wife in your reply that it’s tough to sort through it for info that seems genuinely helpful. I’m definitely not looking to start an argument so I’m not gonna break down the whole thing. One thing though, I’ve never called by wife frigid or a cold fish or “accused” her of being low sex drive like I’m trying to insult her. She has been the one to label herself as low drive so that’s the only reason i said that(she is also on anti depressants whick I know doesn’t help). Also, I make every effort to make things about her and I’m very much devoted to being keen on what she likes but why is it not ok for a man to want their wife to occasionally treat him like she wants to be treated. It is possible for a woman to be the selfish one in a sexual relationship too. Is it wrong tha i want her to want to learn how to please me too? Also, I supported her getting the toy and a few years ago convinced her that she should try masterbating and that it’s nothing to be ashamed of. I only posted to have “someone” to say some things I’m thinking out loud to. I’m just trying to figure out how to have a sex life where we’re both fulfilled.
Here's the thing... especially if she's on ADs... it may be very hard for her to orgasm with a person compared to a sex toy. Even if she uses the sex toy with you there. I'm on ADs and post menopausal and suddenly an orgasm is as rare as a unicorn. Even if I'm alone with a toy. The problem with another person in the room for me is that I have to really concentrate to orgasm. One slight move, one sound, one anything ...even though my guy totally turns me on, and I'd much rather have sex with him than a toy, and I can't even come alone with a toy 75% of the time, but the slightest thing that distracts me, and it's over. Though I love having sex regardless, but we haven't been together 16 years...

My point is just that you being there, even if she's aroused by you, may be too distracting. And yea, it is a lot less effort alone with a toy for many.

With that said -- NO, you are NOT wrong to want her to want to please you too and make love with you. For women, it's typically more about emotional connection that orgasm anyhow. I recommend you shift your focus away from whether or not she orgasms and onto lots of "intimacy" during love making - kissing her like you mean it, telling her how beautiful and special she is, talking with her about whatever, etc. She has a toy. She can have an orgasm any time she wants (maybe). From you she needs intimacy. She can't get that from her toy.

And when the time is right, I'd ask her what's up with her selfishness in bed? But don't word it like that! Something more like "are you happy in our marriage? I feel you are not interested in my needs?" (That's still not great wording but the point you want to get across gently is that you are not satisfied with your sex life and wish she was more into pleasing you the way you are into pleasing her, and is there something missing somewhere, anywhere, in the marriage that she does not feel motivated to make you feel good?)
 

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Star, no one learns from your word salad. You post these big paragraphs and it makes people feel bad. That is what people get out of it.

So, you want him to learn to pleasure her without having oral sex with her. How does he do that? Because you also say to not stop having oral sex with her until he can replace her O with whatever else he is doing. So, how does he learn to do that, while not doing the other thing and be successful? It's like telling a child that has only eaten with a spoon that they have to use chopsticks, and they cannot practice, and every time they drop food they get slapped. He cannot just snap his fingers and be something else, something that even she cannot tell him she wants him to be.


Multiple times he has said he doesn't initiate. He doesn't get turned down, because he doesn't try. For all we know, she is in there masturbating fantasizing about him coming in there and taking her.

Rather than write a 3 page article about what he is doing wrong, I say he should just initiate more if he wants more sex. We have no indication that the sex is bad, but all we have is his views on it.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Star, no one learns from your word salad. You post these big paragraphs and it makes people feel bad. That is what people get out of it.

So, you want him to learn to pleasure her without having oral sex with her. How does he do that? Because you also say to not stop having oral sex with her until he can replace her O with whatever else he is doing. So, how does he learn to do that, while not doing the other thing and be successful? It's like telling a child that has only eaten with a spoon that they have to use chopsticks, and they cannot practice, and every time they drop food they get slapped. He cannot just snap his fingers and be something else, something that even she cannot tell him she wants him to be.


Multiple times he has said he doesn't initiate. He doesn't get turned down, because he doesn't try. For all we know, she is in there masturbating fantasizing about him coming in there and taking her.

Rather than write a 3 page article about what he is doing wrong, I say he should just initiate more if he wants more sex. We have no indication that the sex is bad, but all we have is his views on it.
The sex is good and she definitely doesn’t only get pleasure from oral. She is not the type to fake and it’s not hard to tell when I make her cum from vaginal intercourse. She’s actually a little self conscious about oral on her so that part is less frequent. I know she prefers to be freshly showered and feeling clean and when she is I go for it and she most certainly enjoys it. I posted a couple threads back that i think I’m realizing that the reason I was getting frustrated about her taking care of herself when I’m not home is because it’s like an extension of the issues I already have about her being selfish in bed and too lazy to try to focus on my needs. I am so focused on making her feel good but doesn’t seem like much effort is out in by her. If I were to get oral once a week as compared to my once a year, 2 minutes and then she just climbs on I might be the most pleasant person on earth.
 

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To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.
. Have you talked to her about your wants and desires concerning sex? If not then I would be willing to bet that she thinks you are getting it as often and in the way that you want
and is unaware there is a problem. Perhaps try being a little more assertive in initiating more often and in asking for what you want. A good sex life takes - both partners working at it, both learning and communicating about it, and both being both selfish and unselfish when appropriate and needed. It also takes both partners being willing to relearn, grow, adapt, compromise, as life progressions and changes require. These things I mention are typically not natural to most people, but are skills that can be developed. Many think sex is natural and should just flow freely from desires in relationships, and doesn't need work and commjnication. That's where the problem begins in many marriages.
 

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I have never experienced a low drive woman. Every woman I have been with was dtf and all of them were the initiators.
This I think is where it is hard to explain or understand, if you have never been with an LD person @ConanHub . Here is a good example. My W and I are mismatched somewhat (me being the higher drive). A while ago, 5+ years ago, I was feeling a bit frisky, so I was messing around with my W, figured it would maybe give her something to look forward to later that night (It was during the day, so at that point there was no way to do anything given we have kids). She tells me she already took care of herself in the morning while I was at the gym, so she was good, but I can still start something later if I want. It wasn't said out of malice on her part, but imagine if you are trying to get your W more interested in having a sex life, you are trying to set the tone for some fun later at night, and you get a "Thanks, I am good though" response. This is the only time this ever came up, just trying to give you a little insight in what may go through someone's mind where there is a drive mismatch, and why something like this where you feel like you were essentially replaced by a toy can be demoralizing. In some respects, it is the same when you hear women talk about how their H shows little interest in having sex with them, but then has no problem getting off to porn. It is all about diverting your sexual energy away from your SO.

In terms of sexual energy, I would think (can't say for sure) that someone who is LD probably has a lot less sexual energy to give out. For myself, I could take care of myself in the morning and still be rearing to go a few hours later with zero impact. For an LD person, could they be more of a one and done, and if so, would have more potential negative implications in a relationship with there is a drive mismatch. For the OP, he stated that he is relying on his W to initiate (think he said this is about 90% of the time). If she takes care of herself beforehand, what does this do to the odds that she will initiate that day (I would guess the odds may drop significantly)? Maybe he does initiate, but b/c she took care of herself beforehand, she isn't that into it, less willing to take care of him (which, for the OP, her perceived selfishness is an issue).

OP - you seriously need to sit down, have a talk with your W and tell her exactly what you feeling, Explain exactly what you feel you are missing from your sexual relationship. Also, try shutting your brain off and initiate more. Maybe she has less incentive to take care of you b/c she feels like she has to do all the work just to get things started... Be more vocal when you are having sex about what you want done. See if you can encourage her to use her toy WITH you (of course, there is a fine line b/c you don't want to come across as scolding her for using solo). Nothing is going to change if you just sit back and don't say anything.
 

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In an ltr regarding sex "success", it has been summed up that for an experienced person or couple there's no mystery to sex, only fear of outcome when one talks in a serious way to their partner.

It's all been said before, and talked to death, but every person believes and its normal to do so that their "problem" is unique, they can say or do something that HAS to work, if he/she CAN ONLY FIND the right words and/or actions.

This mistaken perception is false in multiple ways.

1. There is a definite combination that WILL WORK.

But there's a very real possibility nothing whatsoever will work.

2. That it's a definite that there is a solution (as in all problems must have an answer) IF ONLY you work hard enough/are smart enough/it's all your fault and responsibility to find in.

This puts all, a tremendous pressure cooker, if unrealistic sole responsibility solely on you.

Not all problems have solutions, or outcomes you want, or solutions you can see coming.

And it's never, never a sole responsibility of just one SO in a relationship.

That's a false belief in the real world.

3. You'll never find "THE answer", speak it or do it, and all problems will be solved. So all this pressure on one's self to find the answer is to no avail, and prevents one from keeping the big picture in a more real focus.

So, no mystery in a mutually happy sex life, but truly only the fear of getting an undesirable outcome - it's more important to get that fear addressed in your mind so you can move forward on a firm, mentally settled foundation.

See, when each person tries to have the "talk" the person tends to be mostly a sales person while stating what the challenges are and that takes away from clear communications and hurts their "listening ear" because they want the other to respond as desired.

The other SO may not be receptive so the "selling" of your ideas increases in pressure and volume, cutting off your SO.

Address your fears. Listen when having the talk. Know it's possible yes likely you'll hear something you didn't think about.

And the whole thing is a process. Quick, slow, in between, known and unknown outcomes.

Be prepared for possible outcomes, seen and unforeseen, and if an answer is possible it will come out together.

You need to lead when you desire but good/bad, it takes two to tango.

No fear.
 

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To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.
Many times a woman's sexual desire is driven by her husband's desire for her. So, it may well be that your lack of initiating makes her think you desire her less, reducing her desire.

In today's atmosphere of "women shouldn't have sex if they don't want to", "don't pressure women for unwanted sex". "don't make unwanted advances on women", "men only care about getting off", etc., etc., it seems as if the proper play would be to do what you're doing. Sit back and wait until conditions are perfect and it's absolutely certain that she's in the mood and will say yes.

The rules apply to women you're not in a relationship with. Apparently, the rules change completely in a marriage or LTR.

It may seem like a good idea to only have sex when your wife initiates, but that isn't necessarily how she'd prefer it to go and you it's not really fair to sit back and expect her to initiate even more (especially if she may not be "feeling it" all the time.

In an ideal female world, husband's would initiate constantly and women would turn them down as often as they pleased with the husband somehow not feeling rejected. It's a tricky balance.

To wrap up, if you want better and hotter sex, you need to step up and be willing strongly state your desires and risk facing rejection.

Whether or not it's worth the price is up to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
To clear another thing up, I don’t really get turned down ever mostly because I rarely intitiate. When I can see her mood is off I’d int bother to try. Not that I’m mean to her that day, I just assume that today is not the day. I’m reluctant to initiate because If she’s not in the mood I don’t want her to feel obligated.
Many times a woman's sexual desire is driven by her husband's desire for her. So, it may well be that your lack of initiating makes her think you desire her less, reducing her desire.

In today's atmosphere of "women shouldn't have sex if they don't want to", "don't pressure women for unwanted sex". "don't make unwanted advances on women", "men only care about getting off", etc., etc., it seems as if the proper play would be to do what you're doing. Sit back and wait until conditions are perfect and it's absolutely certain that she's in the mood and will say yes.

The rules apply to women you're not in a relationship with. Apparently, the rules change completely in a marriage or LTR.

It may seem like a good idea to only have sex when your wife initiates, but that isn't necessarily how she'd prefer it to go and you it's not really fair to sit back and expect her to initiate even more (especially if she may not be "feeling it" all the time.

In an ideal female world, husband's would initiate constantly and women would turn them down as often as they pleased with the husband somehow not feeling rejected. It's a tricky balance.

To wrap up, if you want better and hotter sex, you need to step up and be willing strongly state your desires and risk facing rejection.

Whether or not it's worth the price is up to you.
My wife without a doubt knows that I’m ready to go at any moment. It’s hard to talk to her about it though because no matter how gently I try to bring it up she gets very defensive and I dont think I’ve ever been able to get to the point of stating that I think she’s being selfish and neglecting me. I suppose I can start by trying to initiate more. I really want to make this better
 

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"It’s hard to talk to her about it though because no matter how gently I try to bring it up she gets very defensive and I dont think I’ve ever been able to get to the point of stating that I think she’s being selfish and neglecting me"

THIS you have to stop doing -- when she gets defensive, STOP her right away and tell her "I'm not trying to accuse here -- I REALLY want to work on this and I want you to be truthful with me. We need to work on this together". YOU saying she's being selfish/neglecting -- do you wonder WHY she gets defensive? STOP that right away. Keep talking and try to get past that instant "defense". Keep telling her that you love her and want to work towards a solution that works for both of you. Also, you want to know HER thinking and what's going on in her head -- right now, that seems the most important thing you need to find out.
 

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I love sex, but I'd never buy or have my wife use a toy.
It tends to loosen things up and crate a bit of a dependency that makes getting her off more difficult.
Just from my experience.
I'd make that thing disappear....
 

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My wife without a doubt knows that I’m ready to go at any moment. It’s hard to talk to her about it though because no matter how gently I try to bring it up she gets very defensive and I dont think I’ve ever been able to get to the point of stating that I think she’s being selfish and neglecting me. I suppose I can start by trying to initiate more. I really want to make this better
I KNOW it seems reasonable that, since YOU are always ready to go and your wife knows this, that she should just let you know when she wants to have sex.

But, it doesn't work that way. Especially if she doesn't know she wants to have sex until you do something that arouses her.

Just the way it (usually) is.

Rational thought has no role here.

Also, read about Responsive Desire in women.
 

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Man, if one initiates during a good time to fool around, and W rejects more than once in a row, that's a problem.

Definitely time for the one time talk.

It can be as simple as "I love you. There has to be more sex in our relationship.
This adds to the things we share to build our feelings of closeness to each other."

Or similar, short and sweet. Just must include the statement "there has to be more sex" in the share.

Don't try and sell it. It's not an option on a car you're buying, not a negotiation.



I'm sure you're trying all other things. But one can't earn sex.
 

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The issue is that she only wants to use it alone. I’m fine with that although I’d love to be involved. I just get worried because I wish she’d want to have sex with me more frequently and it’s tough if she chooses her toy when I’m willing and able
I hate to bring this up, but her drive might be higher than she admits, or maybe she just isn't into having sex with you. When I was married and my now XH cut off sex for awhile, I tried to kill my sex drive, and turned to my toys when I needed to. It got to the point where I would rather play with the toys than be with my then husband, who quite honestly made me feel ill to have sex with. It also probably had to do with the way I got treated within the marriage though. Do you treat your wife well? How much time do you guys spend together (quality time, not time in front of your phones or the TV)? Do you contribute around the house/yard, or does all of that fall into her hands? Do you both work outside of the home?
 

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OP, read up on responsive desire.

It sounds like BOTH of you have a touch of it.

She never says no. She enjoys it. You enjoy it.

Stop overthinking it and just...freaking...initiate.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Also, add the book Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s, by Wayne Levine, to your required reading list.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
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