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I have considered she thinks and acts single: probably not in wanting a different guy (although you can't ever rule it out) but probably yes in still wanting to go hang out.

She passed on a group celebration for me and a common friend with the same birthday. Her rationale is that when we hit a bit of a rough patch a ways back, she knows she looked bad and doesn't want to face the music. She is going to drop off her kids on Friday and then hang with family, culminating in a party to celebrate her sister getting a good promotion at a really good company (don't want to say which without giving away too much info). But the job and promotion are legit.

I don't think she's pushing me into marriage. I do wonder, though, if she wishes I just didn't mind her being around less - kind of like how some couples travel much for work, have deployments, etc. but still manage to be happy.

Her last relationship ended simply because her and the then BF just weren't compatible. She described him as your typical "failure to launch" - crappy job, lived at home, wasn't real understanding about her commitment to her kids. And (keeping in mind that I knew her a while before we became exclusive) she used to belly-ache about how hard it is to get a guy who wants to commit who has something going on for himself.

So, best guess is that she's not looking to screw around, but she's seeing how much a committed relationship takes, and is having second thoughts.

And yeah I did tell her we need to talk. Nothing accusatory, but just an acknowledgement that these are troubling behaviors that lead to "growing apart" and mutual disinterest. I know how that path goes and I'm going to cut it off with a firm "you can have me and what I have to offer, or you can have your freedom to do as you please, but not both".
I would take some of these responses with a grain of salt from people who have clearly been burned in the past. You'll get a lot of "oh, she made a snide, stupid mark- get out now" crowd here.

From a birds eye view, to me, she kind of likes the arrangement.... maybe for her kids..... but she wants and likes some freedom. Maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, its your call as to what to do.
 

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I would take some of these responses with a grain of salt from people who have clearly been burned in the past. You'll get a lot of "oh, she made a snide, stupid mark- get out now" crowd here.

From a birds eye view, to me, she kind of likes the arrangement.... maybe for her kids..... but she wants and likes some freedom. Maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, its your call as to what to do.
After EVERYTHING you have been through @Steelman, you still manage to think this way? Have you learned nothing from your ordeal?

You are completely WRONG about this above. OP should not put up with this crap at all. I don't know how the talk went, but you should NEVER let someone treat you this way in any kind of relationship.
 

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Is this a dump her immediately issue? Not in my opinion.
In any relationship each person needs to learn about the other person and teach the other person about themselves.
I think this is part of the growing process. You need more than one "situation" to figure out if she is going to stay like this or adapt based on what you would like from her.. It is important to drive this conversation to that, rather than a snivel fest about no spending a certain day with you which misses the point.

Unmarried cohabitation with minor children involved is a huge mistake in my opinion, but that's a different debate.
 

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Is this a dump her immediately issue? Not in my opinion.
In any relationship each person needs to learn about the other person and teach the other person about themselves.
I think this is part of the growing process. You need more than one "situation" to figure out if she is going to stay like this or adapt based on what you would like from her.. It is important to drive this conversation to that, rather than a snivel fest about no spending a certain day with you which misses the point.

Unmarried cohabitation with minor children involved is a huge mistake in my opinion, but that's a different debate.
I am not saying that her should not have the talk, and supposedly they did that. But make no mistake, this is not a One Of situation.

Her whole general attitude is out of line, the "Family" comment, the birthday situation, the "I'm going to party on the weekends without you" Attitude... all of that is out of line.

I think OP got into a R too soon with this woman or he is one of those weak men that thinks any woman is great if she puts out a little.

I think she is straight up using OP and has Zero actual feelings for him in any way. Personally I think he is being stupid and used.

I have given women cab far to get home from a date for less than what she has said to OP.

I just don't get it, if you let people disrespect you then you WILL continue to be disrespected, it is kind of simple...
 

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I would take some of these responses with a grain of salt from people who have clearly been burned in the past. You'll get a lot of "oh, she made a snide, stupid mark- get out now" crowd here.

From a birds eye view, to me, she kind of likes the arrangement.... maybe for her kids..... but she wants and likes some freedom. Maybe that works for you, maybe it doesn't. If it doesn't, its your call as to what to do.
The snarky comment was one thing; but, her attitude of 'I was with you last year on your birthday. That should tide you over for at least a decade' was rather revealing.
 

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When you discuss this with her make
sure she understands how you feel.
You planned a weekend with her
and she took off with no consideration
for you. She said make time to be together.

If you still plan on continuing this relationship
some ground rules need to be established.
Do not simply fall for the let me make it up
to you line. Dinner a great night of sex or
empty promises.

If she wants to be in a relationship she
needs to understand that both of you
are in the relationship together.
It is not just about her but both of
you. A one sided relationship will
never work.
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Looks like it's time to chime in with more responses and commemts (to the quoted post and others).

We used to spend two weekends per month (Friday night to Sunday afternoon together). I have my daughter 50% and she has her kids all but those two weekends.

We didn't typically meet during the week due to distance. It's at least two hours from my place to hers during the evening commute time (we both work M-F 8-5).

The difficulty in keeping having a strong relationship with those time constraints is what led to us examining our feelings and deciding we wanted to be together more.

I don't want to be with her if I am not considered family. And this knowing how she views me is a new thing. When we were discussing relationship goals, she said she wanted a family again at some point - her words. And then, after we decided we would head in that direction, she asked me to attend her family functions and get to know the people in her life.

Clearly, something has changed for her. Maybe she's getting cold feet, doesn't like being far from her family, changed her mind but felt stuck - whatever. It doesn't matter why - if she won't adhere to what we had agreed back then, it's over.

It isn't something I need to nuke everything over. But I will tell her that the way she is behaving is unacceptable and she needs to choose. I am confident she will choose to move on, or perhaps try but then fail as those resentments creep in. So that's why I am considering kicking her out from the get-go. Haven't decided 100% on going that route though.

Haven't had the talk yet. Her vacation ends today and she'll be back at my place tomorrow night.


DTO,

You have framed the situation very clearly, which is great.

This isn’t about her delivery - it is about the substance.

If I choose to do something that de prioritizes you - I can run one of three plays:
1. I can make a meaningless non apology
2. This wasn’t fair to you, here’s how I’m going to make it up to you (acts of contrition are sincere)
3. You might dislike this - but you aren’t that important to me - so don’t make a fuss about it - this is normal stuff for someone who is low on the food chain - like you are

That said - in her experience - perhaps their has always been an ill behaved alpha. So she has decided that as part of moving in she’s taking full control of the relationship.

So - you can run an educational play like this: In my family, when we cause distress, we perform an act of contrition shows the injured party that: (1) we acknowledge being in the wrong and (2) The other person is IMPORTANT to us.

Smile and ask: How are you going to make this up to me?

If her answer is not acceptable just shake your head and be silent. And then do your own thing for a week - band that means no sex hard as that is. End of the week you tell her you’ve identified her act of contrition. Packing.

Not being funny.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
We bumped it up to pretty much every weekend once we decided it was appropriate to bring our kids into the mix.

Yes, it's not the same as living together, but then again that is why you live together to begin with.

And it's not that I am afraid to have this discussion, or that I am letting her walk all over me. I just feel that the right approach makes for better communication. It's only been days (and most of those on vacation) and she hasn't even unpacked much. I get that the beginning sets the tone.

So I am going to reiterate clearly my terms for this relationship up front. I do see the signs and I will deal with it now, well before she's comfortable at my place. If she doesn't like it, it won't be much trouble to rent a truck and move her boxes somewhere else.

She is showing you her true colours,you only seen each other twice a month up to now you never knew her really. This needs to be stopped right now because when she settles in her behaviour will be worse. This is the honeymoon period, imagine how things will be after she gets used to you.
 

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Looks like it's time to chime in with more responses and commemts (to the quoted post and others).

We used to spend two weekends per month (Friday night to Sunday afternoon together). I have my daughter 50% and she has her kids all but those two weekends.

We didn't typically meet during the week due to distance. It's at least two hours from my place to hers during the evening commute time (we both work M-F 8-5).

The difficulty in keeping having a strong relationship with those time constraints is what led to us examining our feelings and deciding we wanted to be together more.

I don't want to be with her if I am not considered family. And this knowing how she views me is a new thing. When we were discussing relationship goals, she said she wanted a family again at some point - her words. And then, after we decided we would head in that direction, she asked me to attend her family functions and get to know the people in her life.

Clearly, something has changed for her. Maybe she's getting cold feet, doesn't like being far from her family, changed her mind but felt stuck - whatever. It doesn't matter why - if she won't adhere to what we had agreed back then, it's over.

It isn't something I need to nuke everything over. But I will tell her that the way she is behaving is unacceptable and she needs to choose. I am confident she will choose to move on, or perhaps try but then fail as those resentments creep in. So that's why I am considering kicking her out from the get-go. Haven't decided 100% on going that route though.

Haven't had the talk yet. Her vacation ends today and she'll be back at my place tomorrow night.
Good luck tomorrow buddy.
I really hope things work out for you.
 

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Not family comment is what would make it a deal breaker for me. It will be interesting to hear her response. You have a good attitude about it.

Just try to be willing to let people go who don’t treat you good. It can be hard in practice , although it seems simple in principle.
 

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She sounds like she will take advantage of whatever suits her in the moment. It's work to set up your birthday. It isn't much to go to uncle's. In fact, she may have a built-in baby sitter there so she can go out. That's stretching it, but it would be great if you popped in the last weekend there or whatever night she usually likes to go out. It's not that I don't trust her. I don't trust anyone. I think it would be a boon to find out who she really is before you live with her. I see lots of babysitting in your future. I see you having no input on how to help raise her children, but I do see you doing work for them as you are told.

I can't help feeling that way. It's my gut telling me that. It's been wrong before. I hope it is this time.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
The trip to her uncle's was all expenses paid. He organized outings and family time. So for sure she didn't have to work hard at it or pay for anything.

Dropping in might work if he wasn't three states away. LOL!

She sounds like she will take advantage of whatever suits her in the moment. It's work to set up your birthday. It isn't much to go to uncle's. In fact, she may have a built-in baby sitter there so she can go out. That's stretching it, but it would be great if you popped in the last weekend there or whatever night she usually likes to go out. It's not that I don't trust her. I don't trust anyone. I think it would be a boon to find out who she really is before you live with her. I see lots of babysitting in your future. I see you having no input on how to help raise her children, but I do see you doing work for them as you are told.

I can't help feeling that way. It's my gut telling me that. It's been wrong before. I hope it is this time.
 

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So I am going to reiterate clearly my terms for this relationship up front. I do see the signs and I will deal with it now, well before she's comfortable at my place. If she doesn't like it, it won't be much trouble to rent a truck and move her boxes somewhere else.
I like the way you think. If she doesn't respect your parameters for how a live-in relationship should proceed, then you are better off w/o her.

It's HER loss.
 

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I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.
 

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Oftentimes, the biggest problem that the relationship's oppressed has is simply having the cajones to tell the offender about it!

That being said, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that you have them! Tell her exactly how you feel and what her options are!

You'll do fine!
 

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I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.
Well if you are female then you would not be GF material either I guess.

When you move in, an adult, understands that it is the next level. If they were not living together then maybe what you are saying could be argued.

What's more is that it is just not that comment, it is the attitude in general. It is an attitude of "Lack of care" about him and the relationship.

And yes, a MAN with his wits about him, dumps a woman that has this type of attitude, almost immediately...
 

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Discussion Starter #60
You have a point, and it's something I need to consider. I don't agree with your sentiment, but it would explain what's going on. If so, the question becomes "what causes a relationship to close that gap?" What milestones need to be hit?

Right now, we share bills, she or I will take the other's kids to do stuff, go to family functions (at least up until now, LOL!!), accepted my taking significant responsibility for her and her kid's well-being, etc. The only thing missing is her mental leap to get to that step. Neither one of us wants more kids, and (unless she's changed her mind) she is "meh" on ever being married again. Also, it's very likely that if I bailed on something the was banking on, she wouldn't be as forgiving as she expects from me.

I think it's more likely that either she doesn't intend to lift any guy to the standing of "family" (or at least not what most people think of as "family"), or she doesn't see me as the man to fill that role in her life. Since she wants a family, if I'm not that guy we definitely shouldn't be living together and maybe should not be an exclusive couple at all.

I thank you for your input, and I'll keep it in mind for the discussion taking place tonight.

I think there are a number of points between "I'm dating a guy" and "he is my family", especially when they both have kids and have been there and done that with other people. Since they've only JUST gotten to the stage of moving in together, and while I don't think her statement was moving in the right direction, I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable to expect her to already be calling him family. I'm only saying this to sort of point out that even if he has a valid reason to be unimpressed, I'm confused by the rush to say a couple who have just moved in together are 'family'.
 
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