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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi All

Been lurking for a while and finally feel ready to share my story. Any advice would be great because Im going through a lot of confusion and emotion right now. I will try to be as unbiased as possible, so if anything requires clarification or some "unbiasing" please let me know

Met my current wife when I was 21 and she was 19. We began dating and I was totally in love with her. Thought she was beautiful, etc. etc.

Within a couple of weeks of us dating, she basically ditches me and tells me that I don't like her as much as she likes me and that I'm not ready for a real relationship (probably some truth to this as I was only 21 for god sake, but I always did like her and was a pretty good guy to her in my opinion). Within days, she is seen downtown walking hand in hand with another guy. I was heartbroken because she seemed so into me; it made no sense!!

Somehow we reconnect. Trouble persists but we end up moving in together at the age of 25 and 23. Didn't last long and argued about everything. I end up moving out because I can't seem to handle her feminine "power". We keep in touch and after 2 or 3 weeks she is in a new relationship with a guy who is basically the opposite of me (he was 31 years old at the time and talking about settling down and getting married, etc.).

I was devastated and went on a personal mission to correct any and all flaws that I had that could have led to this relationship ending. In my heart, I always thought that we would get back together.

Anyway, after trying to reconcile for months I came across some info that basically said that I needed to have no contact with this woman (basically a 180). I COMPLETELY CUt off contact with her and went to work on myself.

I introduced myself to David Deida and the way of the Superior man. I went on a mission to become the best possible guy I could be in a relationship and realized a lot of the mistakes I had made in the past that would have led her to think I didn't care. I basically became a new, more mature person who thought he understood the male/female dynamic and the power of female emotions etc. I thought I could handle anything that came my way now.

I started to feel really good and had a lot of options at the time and was actually dating a new girl (I have always gotten attention from the opposite sex) but still had really strong feelings for the ex so didn't totally move on yet (I thought that she hadn't either)

Well after six months of us being separated, and one month of no-contact, she calls me up and asks to meet.

She begins crying telling me she misses me and that her new relationship with this guy "wasn't the same" (I thought, Big Surprise!). I was confident at the time and looked her right in the eye telling her that I was basically a new person and that I took responsibility for my role in our previous breakup. We end our other relationships and start dating immediately.

Things progress quickly. I was more effective in dealing with her and her emotions while also remaining a strong and confident, directed man who was on his path/purpose. I got myself a good job, kept myself in good shape, and continued on a path of personal growth (spirituality, personal psychology, relationship building, etc. by exposing myself to self help books etc.) I always tried to show her that I loved her and cared for her, that I was her protector and had her back, etc. I would do cute things, always text her, leave her notes, etc.

Obviously I made some mistakes along the way. She would complain that I didn't make enough time for her and that I should stop going to the gym for instance (I would hold my ground and tell her that I needed it for me; then, after her persisting that I should quit some of my hobbies, I usually ended up responding negatively by getting upset and refusing). I kept waiting for things to get easy with her, but they just never did. She was constantly "testing me".

We end up buying a house together and getting married. Things were still really bumpy and within the three years she has moved out on me or threatened to move out on me several times. Every time she comes back out of fear (that I will move on) or out of me trying to show her I love her, but its always temporary. It seems like every time things start to go well, she pushes me away (my perspective)

It was a really strange dynamic and I want to attempt to explain it from my perspective:

It seemed that whenever she would get mad about something or "test" me that the times when I responded like a "nice guy" (while still being strong and confident) would lead me to get really negative results (i.e. she would push me away etc.). I would try different things, at it seemed as though me acting more along the "a-hole" side, would lead me to better results (i.e she would be afraid of losing me and actually try to make things better!) strange I know and I didn't want it to be this way. I just felt like I couldn't do anything right!

Anyway about 3 weeks ago, she says shes moving out (AGAIN) with nothing really leading up to it (things were going OK and we hadn't had a fight or anything). At this time, I had been feeling that the relationship was about to end anyway and had been preparing mentally to move on because I felt that I couldnt fix it.

So I come home from work the next day and all of her stuff is out of the house. It really hurt, but I resolved to move on with my life and start a new one. Over the next couple days she calls me and texts me (basically trying to make herself feel better and justify her moving out). I don't respond because I know she will suck me back in and hurt me again. 4 days go by of me not responding and resolving to move on with my life. She shows up at my house crying and saying she's scared etc. I half-heartedly take her back saying that if things don't change I am out.

She doesn't move back in (she was staying with her mom in the same town) but we maintain contact. I am, at this point, mentally exhausted and my guard is up to the fullest extend (which it almost never is). I refuse to open myself up to being abused again. So finally I tell her that I don't think that I can open up to her since she has moved out on me so many times. She agrees and says she will initiate divorce. I agree.

I go 180 on her (for myself more than anything) but also, as messed up as it is, have hopes of one day reconciling and us magically having a great relationship (im laughing out loud as i type this b/c I realize how messed up this whole thing is)

6 days go by and I don't contact her, she doesn't contact me. I start to feel lonely and depressed and have thoughts that "I could have done more". But also thoughts of "I tried my hardest and was a really good guy to her". Confusion sets in and I start re-reading some old David Deida material. His book reminds me that a man needs to "claim his woman" etc. and it starts getting me all confused thinking that I wasn't doing that all along. That I wasn't claiming her with a deep, and powerful masculine love. It was more of a "surface" love. But I also think that I couldn't GET to a place of deep love becasue she was so closed off and kept pushing me away. Also, she never has, and probably never will, take a share in the relationship problems (everything is my fault, even the things that were her fault!)

So there you have it. I am 199% confused. Why do we all seem to have the same problems? Why do so many women feel so "unloved" by their husbands? I seriously tried really hard. I read and practiced all the right stuff.

Then I start to think, well if I'm not good enough for her, then who the hell is. GOOD Luck finding someone better than me, who has done more personal work, etc. Sometimes I would look at her and just think "This is a broken woman, and there is nothing I can do to fix it"

*A little background on her childhood as well (even though I don't know how I feel about labeling someone because of their childhood, I know that there has to be some truth to it)
-mother and father are alcoholics and divorced (multiple drinks every day/night)
-mother and father have split up and reconciled throughout their whole relationship
-mother admittedly never loved father (father always really loved mother and did everything in the relationship)
-father is mentally abusive and bull-headed he has a way of manipulating people it is hard to explain (anyone who knows him will attest to this, although he always means well)
-mother and father always catered to her (she found a way to manipulate them with guilt into giving her what she wants such as a new car, etc., by saying she couldn't afford things...even though she had $50,000 in the bank...)

So lay it on me folks. Should I let this one go? Where did I mess up? What should I do? No contact? Move on? Claim her like she's my lover? I still love the girl...but maybe it's time to move on..
 

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I read your story. Won't get into details of mine, but it's quite similar to yours.

I'm a blunt person so don't mind my harsh tone at times:

Your wife most likely suffers from a personality disorder and it's highly likely that she's a Borderline.

Read this link and see if you see your wife in the traits:

Borderline Personality Disorder | Psych Central


Your story screams BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), however it makes little difference in what you should do as the non (The person who is not the borderline):

YOU CUT HER OUT OF YOUR LIFE

She has completely destroyed your sense of sanity and self-respect. I know this because I have been there. I've been dealing with a life somewhat like yours for 12 years. You can read my story later when you've got time and are able to post in the private section.

Your wife suffers from deep core issues that have roots in her childhood. Without even looking at what you listed about her parents I could easily guess what a terrible job they did with her.

She's constantly scared. The deep fear in her is mostly because of the terrible person she thinks she is. Unfortunately, she actually acts on that perception for self-validation sometimes and becomes a monster to her loved ones (you), in order to verify her own suspicions about herself (in being a terrible person).

It's a never ending cycle of trauma and abuse. Who ends up suffering the most other than her? YOU.

She needs intensive therapy and no one (I really mean no one) on earth could ever convince her to seek it. She has to want it herself. As a loving husband, the only right thing for you to do is to let her hit "rock bottom". Cut her out of your life. At some point in her life she will hit a brick wall and perhaps get smart enough to seek help. Not your worry, not your job, not your life. It's all her.

I have more to say on this, but first see how much of the borderline traits you can easily identify in her.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the response.

My difficulties with this woman have caused me to look hard and deep at myself and at her. I have done a lot of research and tried to figure out what the hell is going on.

I actually did stumble upon Borderline Personality Disorder and ordered a book about it (stop walking on eggshells). I read the book and realized that many of the traits describe my W to a T.

I am caught at an impasse, however, about whether or not I fully believe in BPD as a disorder or whether or not I am simply making an excuse for me not being able to make it work.

When I read other works like The Way of the Superior Man, I am often told that women are "emotional" creatures and often irrational. That they can change their mind second by second. That they often do not say what they mean etc.

And then I look at a lot of relationships around me. Friends, family, coworkers etc. and it seems that AT LEAST 65% of these random people from all different walks of life seem to have the SAME problems that I have.

For instance, I have 1 close friend and 1 coworker that I am close with who are right now going through similar breakups to mine. We get together and we tell our strories and they are almost identical (i.e. can't seem to make her happy, always changing her mind, always mad at me, always tells me I don't love her even though I do, etc., etc.)

How is it possible that Such a common problem between men and women can be attributed to a personality disorder??

I am not negating the possibility of BPD or any other personality disorder. In fact, my sister suffers from Anxiety and takes medication (she is happily married and she is aware of her condition). Talking to her helped me realize that people really do suffer from medical conditions. I am just having a hard time reconciling the fact that SO many people seem to suffer the same disorder??
 

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NO you're partially wrong (because you're still codependent)

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders so I suggest you stick around and brace yourself for a lot of "light bulb" moments that may come to you with gut-wrenching pain and sadness at times as you learn more about yourself and your relationship.

Before anything, it's important you know that I'm not a believer in the current methods used for identifying, diagnosing and scaling BPD. It's such a foggy subject, most professionals either avoid it or they get tangled up in the technicalities without offering any useful solutions.

NO, most people DON'T suffer the same disorder. Many personality disorders are hard to distinguish because frankly our vocabularies are very limited compared to the countless types of feelings that we may be experiencing. This makes it hard for science to identify patterns in disordered/healthy individuals because verbal communication is all science has to rely on. There is no identified chemical imbalance in BPDers.

I am caught at an impasse, however, about whether or not I fully believe in BPD as a disorder or whether or not I am simply making an excuse for me not being able to make it work.
I know the feeling. That's why I called you a codependent.

You are a clear case of a Fixer/Rescuer personality that has internal issues of his own. I am too. That's why you are attracted to your wife and that's why she keeps seeking you back.

You're the PERFECT ENABLER for her DISORDERED personality.

You've done a lot of work on yourself. Time to take it to the next level.

Read the article in my signature (DO YOU LOVE ...)

Tell me what you think.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wow. Awesome article and very insightful.

While I have done a lot of work on myslef, I realize that I have always thought that my childhood was sooo much better than most because my parents were NOT divorced.

However, I've come to realize that my dad was never really around. My mom was the greatest mom anyone could ask for, providing unconditional and deep love. But I also craved that from my father. I remember clamoring for his attention which he rarely gave because he was working 2 or 3 jobs at a time. The only attention I got from him was sparse and fleeting.

I remember playing basketball in the driveway with him one on one. He would play with me for 5 or so minutes at a time before he inevitably walked away to continue with whatever he needed to do. I knew he love me, but I guess I never felt it.
 

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Wow. Awesome article and very insightful.

While I have done a lot of work on myslef, I realize that I have always thought that my childhood was sooo much better than most because my parents were NOT divorced.

However, I've come to realize that my dad was never really around. My mom was the greatest mom anyone could ask for, providing unconditional and deep love. But I also craved that from my father. I remember clamoring for his attention which he rarely gave because he was working 2 or 3 jobs at a time. The only attention I got from him was sparse and fleeting.

I remember playing basketball in the driveway with him one on one. He would play with me for 5 or so minutes at a time before he inevitably walked away to continue with whatever he needed to do. I knew he love me, but I guess I never felt it.
It's only the beginning of your enlightenment.

In the next few weeks, read the article a few more times. Each time, you will think of a different set of contributors to your present personality. It's quite an amazing experience and sometimes involves rivers of tears (I had to take a day off work and cry for hours once).

In the meantime, CUT ALL CONTACT WITH YOUR WIFE.
 

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I have learned so much from the people here, it would only be appropriate to help others in areas that I have have experienced the pain myself.

Codependency is a serious issue. I personally think it's the biggest evil of life, perhaps the devil himself (for those who believe, I don't!)

It's only natural for you to want to work things out with your wife. Don't hate yourself for it. It's also natural for you to doubt a future with her. Take it as a positive sign of maturity.

Here's what's happening in your brain (It really is):

The left side of your brain (the emotional child) is hoping for instant gratification ALL THE TIME. These days, that instant gratification for that emotional child would be to see your wife back by your side in the traditional dynamic that used to be the "comfort zone".

The right side of your brain (the logical adult) is seeing the reality of your situation, connecting the dots and concluding logical patterns. That's where your doubts about your future with your wife are coming from. The logical adult in you understands how things work. He knows who you are, who your wife is and what you should be doing to live a more fulfilling life.

Guess what? (and I bet you didn't know this one):

The emotional child in you makes more than 95% of your decisions in life.


Sounds scary?

It is and it isn't. For one thing, without the emotional child, life would be boring and robotic as hell. Unfortunately, sometimes, you have to tell that emotional child to shut the f*** up and listen to the adult in you or else you will end up getting badly hurt (like you've been for years).

In the next few weeks and months, train the adult in you to take charge of the decision making when it comes to your wife. Throw some treats at the emotional child by letting him make decisions about fun activities and social situations (be free, be silly, be spontaneous... these are all the works of the emotional child).

You need counseling. Without it, your work becomes much harder. Book an appointment asap. Preferably with someone who knows how to deal with the spouse of a possible BPDer.

Join this forum:

BPDfamily.com

Join it and see how misguided we have all been since childhood about dealing with people who are disordered.

At times during your research and healing, you will start to wonder whether you are suffering from a personality disorder yourself. That's perfectly natural and a part of healing. It's important to keep the adult part of your brain engaged with the decision making. Without engagement, he will disappear and won't come back until the emotional child has made a mess of things.

CUT ALL CONTACT with the wife for at least 3 weeks (more if you can). This is very hard. It's a mindf***.

Rack up 17 more posts and read my thread in the private section. I didn't use BPD as an excuse. I learned it to become aware of the possibilities. It helped a lot.

Just so you don't think I'm a hypocrite, I did get my wife back (for now), but it involved the miracle of her hitting 'rock-bottom'. My advice remains the same for those who get left behind: DETACH, CUT THEM OFF and START LIVING.

For those with BPD spouses, this process of detaching and cutting contact is almost impossible without mind-blowing hardship.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you for the response. She contacted me today and I have not responded. I know that if I do, I will be manipulated and all problems will be placed squarely on my shoulders. I need time to get strong again then I will proceed from that place.
 

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Isn't it great how you can find yourself apologizing for what someone else did?
Yes it is. It is very strange yet the urge to do so remains. For instance, I think of how many strange fights and how many manipulative behaviours I have experienced, and how many times she has left me or threatened to leave; yet I sit here and think "well, maybe if I hadn't been co-dependent, she wouldn't have done those things!?" Messed up!

I have ordered "Co-Dependent No More" from Amazon and will start from there.
 

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I have not. Reccomended?
Why did I think you had already read it?

Read it NOW!

Okay, here are the 10 commandments:

Synthetic's 10 Commandments:

1. Read this link - Just Let Them Go

2. Follow the following rules: The 180 degree rules

3. Read this book in the next 24 hours: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glo...r_Nice_Guy.pdf

4. Separate all finances and stop supporting her 'single' lifestyle

5. Book a counseling appointment ASAP

6. Doesn't matter how you do it, but sweat the pain of anxiety out. Treadmills are your best friend. Use them. This is very important: You need to physically feel spent before you hit bed every night.

7. Think a lot, read a lot, and cry as needed - This particular link should be open in your browser at all times and read multiple times: DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?

8. Find your social worth by socializing with as many people as possible (females work better). Spend times with friends, but don't just settle for your circle of friends. This is the best time to make new ones and feel attractive/attracted. You're not looking for sex or a relationship. You're looking for natural human attraction between you and others.

9. Do whatever it takes to go on a trip that involves a long flight, preferably to a country where English or your first language is not spoken

10. Start living an 'overly' fun life without feeling any guilt. This is the hardest task ahead. It's important to wash the guilt out of yourself once you have realized where it originates from via all the reading and counseling you've done.
 
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