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She wanted out of the marriage in 2013. I had to struggle and fight to keep us together. It was an awful time.
This could be a major contributing factor to her attitude...it sounds like she believes SHE "gifted" you with continuing the marriage, and you are indebted to her and should be grateful.

I really didn't expect that she was going to give up her royal position to you...like I said, in my personal experience and from what I've seen in other couples with a similar dynamic, the partner who has the power NEVER relinquishes it without a major fight, if at all. And many are willing to destroy everything to maintain their power (like my STBX).

It's a PROCESS. And if you are willing to stay and remain powerless in your relationship, it's best to recognize that and embrace it (like you have) and work to negotiate for some of the needs you have that she is more willing to meet. There ARE people who stay in a situation like yours and are moderately satisfied, if not completely happy. Several are here on TAM too. So you are NOT a failure or weak at all, and I hope you don't feel that way -- you are just trading one thing you want for something else you want more. And there is NOTHING wrong with that at all.
 

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It's possible that she will try to revert back. We do have a date day coming up in a couple weeks. I want to see what happens then because that's usually when we would have non quickie sex.
I completely relate to your situation, but are you not tired of getting the few crumbs thrown at you? Just give up and ask for an open marriage. Every time I read these threads, it's all a terrible flashback and I want to bury my head in the sand. It's painful.
 

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Of course it took something out of her. You had expressed your feelings about sex. She had started having more sex with you and initiating and you basically said I don't even see your increased effort and it still isn't good enough. All the while she is struggling with two special needs children. That's very defeating.

Congrats on noticing now that it may not have been the best move.
Sisterhood in action! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #264 ·
I completely relate to your situation, but are you not tired of getting the few crumbs thrown at you? Just give up and ask for an open marriage. Every time I read these threads, it's all a terrible flashback and I want to bury my head in the sand. It's painful.
She has given me a hall pass. I just have chosen not to use it.
 

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I completely relate to your situation, but are you not tired of getting the few crumbs thrown at you? Just give up and ask for an open marriage. Every time I read these threads, it's all a terrible flashback and I want to bury my head in the sand. It's painful.
IA you take a lot of crap on here from people about your present status but I think your experience and the wisdom you gained is really useful on these types of threads.

Not sure how you’ll read this and I drank a lot of coffee today but this is intended to be a compliment.
 

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She wanted out of the marriage in 2013. I had to struggle and fight to keep us together. It was an awful time.
Those of us in our generation were raised to “fight” for our marriage/relationship and were raised that “saving the marriage” was a noble pursuit like rescuing orphaned puppies or putting baby birds that had fallen out of their nests back in the nest.

You fought the good fight and were victorious in the send that you are not divorced and you still have the same mailing address.

But what are your real spoils of war here? Occasional 5 minute quickie with a condom?
Her telling you that you can get it from other women if you want? Her basically tolerating you while you dance around like a dancing monkey for her while she is constantly looking beyond your shoulder keeping her eye out for a bigger, better deal?

I’ve fought for some relationships and felt like I was the noble warrior too. I was even the victor a couple times (for awhile) so I get where you are coming from and I do understand.

But will I ever “struggle and fight” again??

Probably not.

I’m 57 now and so why should I be fighting? If someone wants to be with me - great!! 😃

If someone doesn’t want to be with me - bummer 😔

But I’m not going to ‘fight’ for anyone that does not want to be with me.

If someone needs me to put the toilet seat down or squeeze the toothpaste from the bottom of the tube or stack the dishes a particular way in the dishwasher in order to remain in a relationship, I will try to be negotiable and accommodate.

But “fight”???

No.

I’ve been with people who wanted to be with me.

And I’ve been with people who decided they didn’t want to be with me. And I have even fought for a couple of those - And I now regret that.

I regret burning up that time and energy on someone who didn’t want to be with me. It was wasted time and energy and at 57 I don’t have an abundance of either.

I don’t regret have loved and I don’t regret having lost.

But in retrospect I regret chasing after and fighting for someone that did not want to be there.

It won’t happen again.

I encourage you to also do some soul searching on whether your “struggle and fight” has been worth the disregard, the disrespect and the potential disposal that you could experience at any moment that you have now after “winning her back.”

Are you really going to want to fight that fight again? Will the juice be worth the squeeze?
 

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... This is where I hope to be more assertive with what I would like to happen.
Assertiveness is a noble goal in many ways.

I've learned a lot about the concept through books like The Assertiveness Workbook by Paterson. I actually needed to stop being too pushy, through internal self talk and with others. Assertiveness is not about being pushy. It's calm, self aware, appropriate power that is often appreciated.

With that in mind, I'm going to rephrase your statement about your own assertiveness goals:

"This is where I will be more assertive with what I need to have happen."

I hope you see the difference and reflect on your self talk, not just for the sake of this relationship, but all the relationships in your life, now and in the future. Best of luck on the dates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #269 ·
This could be a major contributing factor to her attitude...it sounds like she believes SHE "gifted" you with continuing the marriage, and you are indebted to her and should be grateful.

I really didn't expect that she was going to give up her royal position to you...like I said, in my personal experience and from what I've seen in other couples with a similar dynamic, the partner who has the power NEVER relinquishes it without a major fight, if at all. And many are willing to destroy everything to maintain their power (like my STBX).

It's a PROCESS. And if you are willing to stay and remain powerless in your relationship, it's best to recognize that and embrace it (like you have) and work to negotiate for some of the needs you have that she is more willing to meet. There ARE people who stay in a situation like yours and are moderately satisfied, if not completely happy. Several are here on TAM too. So you are NOT a failure or weak at all, and I hope you don't feel that way -- you are just trading one thing you want for something else you want more. And there is NOTHING wrong with that at all.
Thanks, I've tried to take in the whole picture with what was happening. While there is an aspect that is missing and I want to try to fix it, elsewhere we do very well together. I do consider myself happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #270 ·
Those of us in our generation were raised to “fight” for our marriage/relationship and were raised that “saving the marriage” was a noble pursuit like rescuing orphaned puppies or putting baby birds that had fallen out of their nests back in the nest.

You fought the good fight and were victorious in the send that you are not divorced and you still have the same mailing address.

But what are your real spoils of war here? Occasional 5 minute quickie with a condom?
Her telling you that you can get it from other women if you want? Her basically tolerating you while you dance around like a dancing monkey for her while she is constantly looking beyond your shoulder keeping her eye out for a bigger, better deal?

I’ve fought for some relationships and felt like I was the noble warrior too. I was even the victor a couple times (for awhile) so I get where you are coming from and I do understand.

But will I ever “struggle and fight” again??

Probably not.

I’m 57 now and so why should I be fighting? If someone wants to be with me - great!! 😃

If someone doesn’t want to be with me - bummer 😔

But I’m not going to ‘fight’ for anyone that does not want to be with me.

If someone needs me to put the toilet seat down or squeeze the toothpaste from the bottom of the tube or stack the dishes a particular way in the dishwasher in order to remain in a relationship, I will try to be negotiable and accommodate.

But “fight”???

No.

I’ve been with people who wanted to be with me.

And I’ve been with people who decided they didn’t want to be with me. And I have even fought for a couple of those - And I now regret that.

I regret burning up that time and energy on someone who didn’t want to be with me. It was wasted time and energy and at 57 I don’t have an abundance of either.

I don’t regret have loved and I don’t regret having lost.

But in retrospect I regret chasing after and fighting for someone that did not want to be there.

It won’t happen again.

I encourage you to also do some soul searching on whether your “struggle and fight” has been worth the disregard, the disrespect and the potential disposal that you could experience at any moment that you have now after “winning her back.”

Are you really going to want to fight that fight again? Will the juice be worth the squeeze?
I had to fight for it in 2013. That time is past and we are not in the position, or anywhere near it today.

She has made it clear to me she wants to ne married and we have plans for our future, long and short term. She is not looking for a better deal, she knows she has a good one with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #271 ·
Your wife has almost divorced you, really doesn’t want to have sex with you, etc.

I totally get that you love her, you like having a family, etc, and don’t want to lose it. That is a great thing.
Im not telling you to divorce her, but I would. I personally would rather not even have sex if I had to use a condom, but that’s just me. If I were you I’d get snipped tomorrow.
Thing is, there will still be excuses for no sex.

I honestly think you’re going to get old, never have a fulfilling sexual relationship, and since she always has one foot out the door, you’ll always be her doormat begging her to stay.

You have got to get to a place where you can live without her so you can make a decision on whether you ever want to have sex with a partner that wants you romantically again.

This concept of always begging her to stay and tolerating her uncaring behavior toward you, not just about sex, is no way to live.

I hope you figure out a way to be happy.
I don't think you've read the whole thread here. There has been some negative stuff that's been said between us that was in the heat of the moment.

I am going to be 55 and my wife is going into menopause, why would I get it snipped?

I have had fulfilling sexual relationships, this used to be one of them. I would rather try to make this one better. But if I do or not I am not leaving if it doesn't improve.

And by the way, I am happy.
 

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I don't think you've read the whole thread here. There has been some negative stuff that's been said between us that was in the heat of the moment.

I am going to be 55 and my wife is going into menopause, why would I get it snipped?

I have had fulfilling sexual relationships, this used to be one of them. I would rather try to make this one better. But if I do or not I am not leaving if it doesn't improve.

And by the way, I am happy.
I wish you all the best.
 

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@Underground66 have you thought of being more assertive in your marriage?
There is no doubt in my mind that you scored some attraction points being assertive!
There are many positive ways that you can show assertiveness without confrontations or going overboard.
An example: When you go shopping, the way you lead your wife into shops while holding hands hands.. etc
Athol's Kay book The Married Man Sex Life Primer has some really nice ideas you can use to be more assertive and dominant in a romantic way, have you read the book @Underground66?
 

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She has made it clear to me she wants to ne married and we have plans for our future, long and short term. She is not looking for a better deal, she knows she has a good one with me.
By allowing you 5 minute quickies with condoms periodically and telling you to get it elsewhere???

Any time there is a disconnect between words coming out of someone’s mouth and their actions - always believe the actions.
 

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@Underground66 There are many positive ways that you can show assertiveness without confrontations or going overboard.
An example: When you go shopping, the way you lead your wife into shops while holding hands hands.. etc
@Underground66?
Have you ever tried to hold hands with someone in public that’s not into you/doesn’t respect you etc?

You’ll have an easier time getting a hummer in the parking lot from a random drunk chick that just broke up with her boyfriend.

Holding hands can often speak volumes of how someone truly feels about you. It may seem very innocuous and innocent but it is often the canary in the mineshaft and if someone is not into you and not submissive to you, what you speak of above is a no-go.
 

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Have you ever tried to hold hands with someone in public that’s not into you/doesn’t respect you etc?

You’ll have an easier time getting a hummer in the parking lot from a random drunk chick that just broke up with her boyfriend.

Holding hands can often speak volumes of how someone truly feels about you. It may seem very innocuous and innocent but it is often the canary in the mineshaft and if someone is not into you and not submissive to you, what you speak of above is a no-go.
Funny you mention that. My wife actually has a very specific way she likes to hold hands with me. When we interlace our hands she wants her thumb under mine so it feels like her hand is inside mine. I wonder if subconsciously she is showing she is submissive to me?
 

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Funny you mention that. My wife actually has a very specific way she likes to hold hands with me. When we interlace our hands she wants her thumb under mine so it feels like her hand is inside mine. I wonder if subconsciously she is showing she is submissive to me?
That's possible...or she just might like the feeling that you are bigger and stronger, and that she is connected to you.
Also, my hand and fingers are smaller and never stretched comfortably in my STBX's hand, so tucking her hand into yours might just feel RIGHT for her! :)

Holding hands (or his arm) was always something I loved to do with my STBX when our relationship was working, because touching him and feeling close to him was what I NEEDED. However, once I started to shut down emotionally to him, reaching for him was the last thing I wanted to do, and I stopped completely.

But not everyone enjoys and wants the amount of physical affection that I do...there are plenty of people who like more space and don't like being "pawed" (as my sister says), I am just not one of them.
And with ME, a lack of touching is the first sign that something is not right.
 

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Funny you mention that. My wife actually has a very specific way she likes to hold hands with me. When we interlace our hands she wants her thumb under mine so it feels like her hand is inside mine. I wonder if subconsciously she is showing she is submissive to me?
IMHO yes.

I believe how one holds hands or how they respond to having their hand held is actually a very powerful “tell” in how they will respond to you in general.

If you are just casually walking down the street or in the mall and you gently reach to take their hand - how do they instinctively respond?

Do they calmly accept your grasp and interlock fingers naturally and without reservation?

Do they instinctively pull away or resist? Do they appear shocked or disgusted or annoyed?

There are a lot of powerful cues that can be determined by how someone responds to your hand to theirs.

My response to the post above is Someone who is not attracted to you, does not have respect and admiration for you and does not feel submissive to you, will not respond well to you taking her hand in public and directing her into stores.
 

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My favorite move is when sitting at a bar I wrap my arm around her. I am tall and have long arms and I also move my seat right next to her. Even did it at the airport bar a couple weeks ago. She loves it.
 
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