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Rules for reconciliation?

8K views 53 replies 17 participants last post by  Cynthia 
#1 ·
Last night H and I had a long, honest discussion. We’ve been avoiding addressing the core issues in our marriage and it was a long time coming. He’s tentatively agreed to marriage counseling, and wants to get help for his drinking problem and learn to reciprocate and help care for me and the kids when I need him.
I’m hesitant to make any specific “demands” or mention a timeline, boundaries or ultimatums to him. I don’t want to be unfair or create any more distance between us.
However, because of the years of neglect and abuse within our relationship, I’m not really sure how to go about being more assertive about my needs or expectations. I’m afraid if I’m too “easy” on him, there won’t be any improvement and I’ll ultimately have to leave to protect myself and our kids. If I’m too demanding, I’m afraid he’ll get discouraged and stop trying.
Any advice?
 
#2 ·
I should also add that I don’t want to punish him or make him upset by withholding sex, but he’s got a habit of being too aggressive and there have been a number of fairly ugly rape incidents when he’s been drinking. In one hand, I want to please him and try to make him happy. On the other hand, I’m having a hard time coping with some of the incidents and am having a hard time wanting to be intimate. I’m sure it’s normal to be a bit standoffish given the situation, but I don’t want make things worse or have him upset with me when he’s finally agreed to make an effort. What would be the best way to handle this? My gut says I should suck it up- just be a good girl and give him what he wants. But at the same time, I don’t really see things improving if I don’t take some kind of stand. Ugh... the anxiety is killing me.
 
#4 ·
My first advice is to stop worrying about him getting discouraged or not trying. That’s his problem.

Focus on your problems and how he contributes to them. For example, your problem might not actually be his neglect. It might be that you feel lonely and unfulfilled. How he contributes to those feelings is by ignoring you, or having a drinking problem, etc. The point is to frame your problems clearly without jumping to what he needs to do to fix them because that’s his job to figure out.

As for boundaries, be clear, be simple, and be direct.

“Husband, I will no longer tolerate being around you when you’ve been drinking” or whatever. Be clear what you will tolerate in your life, with or without him in it.

You own your stuff. He owns his stuff. Don’t try to own or help him with his stuff. That’s on him.
 
#5 ·
There are two books that I think will help you quite a bit. They are "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order. The idea is the first identify and stop the love busters (like his alcoholism and anger). Once you both have done this you can identify you needs and start working to meet each other's needs. Read the books yourself first because you will learn a lot. Then see if you can get him to read the books with you and do the work together that the books suggest.
 
#10 ·
Boundaries are good. Responsibility is good. Requirements are good.

Your love and devotion are worth something. Remember you are the prize here. Hold him accountable.

If you feel better you can couch it with, "I want nothing more for us to stay together but this is what I need and I can't wait forever."

You are not asking for anything unreasonable, this is what any women who is married to him is going to want. Presumably he loves you right? It's not hard for him to start treating you with respect.


Edit:

After reading your second post I have to take this back as well. I can't in good faith say this when you say there have been Rape incidents. You should not be married to someone who rapes you. Not good.
 
#12 ·
"...but I don’t want make things worse or have him upset with me..."

This is why you find yourself where you are. You're afraid of your husband (and, for good reason).

If he does decide to go to marriage counseling, and you start to discuss the rapes he will feel blindsided and betrayed. Then you really will have a reason to be afraid. He won't like being exposed.

You can start by taking sex off the table altogether until he has earned a right to be intimate with you by his new learned behavior.

I have to be honest; I can not figure out why you want to stay with a man who has repeatedly raped you. I also don't see this man becoming a husband worthy of the title.
 
#14 ·
The first thing you need are some strong boundaries, and your short list of ultimate deal breakers. Then you need to be prepared to back them up when they're crossed. Drunken rape should already have been a deal breaker, but if you're going to give it one last try, that would be my ultimate deal breaker. The time line for that is immediately, and if he can't agree to that then you go file for divorce tomorrow. One more time and I'm gone for good.

I also think that you need to still get your ducks in a row in case this thing ends in divorce (I know you don't want to hear that, but most people in your situation would have left long ago). You need to have a clear exit plan that covers all the bases. That way if things do get worse then you are not playing catch up.
 
#16 ·
Ok, I’m starting to think I’m wording this poorly. Maybe “rape” is too strong a word. I mean, he’s my husband. For better or worse. It’s difficult to sort through all this, and I’m trying not to be emotional or dramatic.
I’d hate to throw my whole life away on a technicality.
 
#17 ·
Sex against your will is rape. If you dont want it and say no, its rape. If its done out of fear, its rape. Husband or not.

Leaving him isnt throwing away your life, its finding and reclaiming it.
 
#18 ·
@sokillme I don’t think he has any idea how his actions affect me or the children. He has never been capable of empathy, or really considered anyone aside from himself. He is never at fault, and his actions are always framed as reactions to factors outside his control. So his drinking is my fault, my needs are unreasonable, if he’s late to work it’s because I didn’t get him out the door on time, etc.
My recent research indicates that he may be a bit of a narcissist?
 
#20 ·
Be aware that no amount of counselling is going to really help someone like this. I can understand wanting to try to fix things, but realize that it's basically an impossible task. If he doesn't really commit to change and put significant effort into changing himself, it's not going to work. Please, do not accept that it's your responsibility to fix him. Please, do not accept the fault if he doesn't change. He is the one with the problem. He needs to be working the hardest to fix it. You can help him change, but he needs to be the one driving the change within himself.
 
#21 ·
@Tex X You’re right. I know you are. I just don’t want to hurt him. I don’t think he means to do it. It wasn’t even that big of a problem until I joined TAM and the behavior was identified as rape. Now I’m having nightmares. I can’t breathe, I’m throwing up a few times a day just thinking about it. I’m hoping he’ll just apologize and stop doing it. Then maybe everything will be okay.
I’m not really even sure how to talk about it with him, he probably doesn’t remember me crying and begging him to stop. He never mentions me yelling and kicking and hitting him. He just wakes up in the morning and goes on like nothing happened. So maybe he’s just so drunk he’s not even aware of what’s happened?
 
#24 ·
If a close friend of yours told you everything you've told us on this forum, what would your advice be? Probably run like hell would be my guess. Also, I know that you have been hesitant to disclose everything to your therapist, but in my opinion, you need to do so in your next session. Tell your therapist everything you've told us. Everything. It'll be hard, but you really need to get it all out there.

I know that you're afraid your marriage will end, but I'm sorry to say that after all you've told us, that sounds pretty good to me. I understand you wanting to work things out and hoping that your husband can change. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. But you're not doing either of you a favor by rationalizing his behavior. Time to set the bar high - it has been far too low for far too long.

Don't feel bad for creating boundaries and giving your husband ultimatums. You need to realize that your emotional and physical well being, happiness, and sense of self worth are extremely important, and that you will just not accept being treated that way ever again.
 
#29 ·
There are a thousand reasons why I can’t do it. I’m scared. I’m so sorry. I can’t. It’ll be okay. I know I’m not getting out now. It’s okay. I can work it out. It’ll be okay. It’s not that bad. He doesn’t mean to hurt anyone. An it hasn’t happened in a few weeks. If I don’t say no, it’s not a big deal. I’m so sorry.
 
#30 ·
You don’t have to do anything you want to do.

If you call, they can help you. It doesn’t mean police or divorce or anything else - it just means they can help give you tools to minimize your trauma, help you process this, and even just listen.

It’s just a phone call. Consider hearing them out. It doesn’t mean you’re making a long term decision. No matter what, you’re still in control here.
 
#36 ·
HSM, Ok try this on for size. He gets on the drug to stop all drinking, and the see's a certified physiologist, 2 times a week and you review with him how his progress is coming along, and if he thinks your going to be in danger. If so leave. But if not and you find you Asshat if a husband, is truly making improvements. Then you can stay. If not this give you the time to get a protection order against him.

And quit being codependent on this ABUSER, they always promise the stars and sun to move on their command. If you stop now you will forever be his kicking board.
 
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#37 ·
Please find someone, counselor friend, police, someone who you can tell the *whole* story.

Its easier to talk to people on the web, but we can't really help you.

If you don't tell your therapist or counselor the whole story they may suggest a completely wrong approach. They may think you have relationship or communication issues. You don't, you have a husband who is a rapist. In other posts you have described being held down and raped while you screamed. If that is anywhere close to true, he does not get a little carried away during sex, he is a violent rapist.

Even cultures that allow spousal rape generally mean that the woman cannot refuse her husband, not that he has the right to force painful sexual acts on her while she screams in pain.

Drunkenness is no an excuse. If he got drunk and raped you, that should have been the last drop of alcohol that crossed his lips for the rest of his life.

I don't know if rape and child abuse are correlated, but given that he has already been verbally abusive to your 5 year old daughter, I do not think its worth taking a chance.


I know this is extremely difficult, victims of abuse often find it very difficult to leave. Again please find someone local who can help you - and please tell them everything.
 
#48 ·
OP did state in one of her other threads that she went and checked out a women's shelter some days ago. I think she put her name in so they have record of her. So she HAS been taking some steps. I can only imagine how terrified she is a lot of the time. I think she will get there but its going to take time, of course.
 
#49 ·
@HorseShowMom, I'm sorry that this is probably quite overwhelming coming here and getting these matter of fact responses about the terrors in your life, like you should just up and leave when you aren't feeling ready for that. I know for myself that my concern is that your husband is already violent and he could escalate. You are already afraid of making him angry, which isn't hard and happens when you didn't do anything that ought to make him angry. He's an angry man. That isn't your fault. That is something he should be working through, but hasn't even faced yet.

Please keep coming to TAM. Please keep seeking help and learning and growing. Things can be better.

One thing I ask of you is to please, please tell your therapist about your husband forcing himself on you. You were able to write it out here. I recommend that you print out all of the posts that you've made here and give them to your therapist to read. Have courage. You can do it. Once you have done that, your therapist will be better able to advise you. Right now she is giving you advice based on a situation that isn't accurate and that could cause you harm.
 
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