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Hello
I have a an extensive and long story if you're curious and if you read my threads you'll find i've arrived and have been practicing the no more mr nice guy school of healing. It has worked wonders for me so far. Got finances in shape, working on my confidence. Standing up for myself setting boundaries in a healthy way. There are still a lot of things though that make me question if we should be together or not. Mismatched Libidos and attitudes towards sex, views on the world but one of the largest I've seen is religion.

We've always agreed to disagree but i can see this becoming a larger issue. I live in a state (Utah) where you're are basically either LDS or not and those who are not are looked at strangely. My wife was raised mormon but does not practice. I was raised completely without religion and it was not really ever brought up.

There is massive confusion in our community. No religion=bad morals. My wife falls for some of it. She automatically trusts someone if they are LDS for example simply because of this. All of it makes me feel like I'm not what she wants even though she adamant about not practicing the LDS religion.

The trouble is. I'm a concious atheist. Meaning that I didn't arrive at that conclusion because I was told that. I've researched read, and thought for almost 10 years now seriously on the subject. I've simply tried beliving in a god believing that there is more. I cannot deny what i think and what I feel.

Recently our kids asked some questions my wife answered her point of view but was kind enough to say that dad believes something different. Later though she said that "We need to figure out what we are going to tell the kids, or you know.... you could get on board" that really hurt.

She knows that I don't think religion is necessarily a good thing i'm completely non-judgemental. If she wants to believe who am I to say she can't? however i don't think i've outright sat her down and said you know what? I don't believe in god and I'm now sure i'm not going to change and in fact my belief or lack thereof, keeps getting stronger and stronger. I don't believe that Jesus was anything more than a regular guy doing some good things.

Part of my Nice Guy healing is for me to be true to myself and to others about what I believe and how I feel. I need to do this with her. I know she probably knows but i need to really confirm with her. I want some tips some advice and some thoughts about this.. .thanks
 

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You don't need religion to be a good person, and your children are not going to suffer irreparable harm if mom and dad don't agree on the answer the Big Question. They might even figure out that they have to answer it for themselves.

Stay the course, be good, be strong, and don't give in. You're already non-confrontational about the issue, which is a perfectly reasonable compromise.

Who knows? You're wife may eventually come around to your way of thinking when she sees that you're not a baby eating philandering hedonistic devil worshiper. Mine did.
 

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Hey Mat, fellow Utahn here and an atheist too. Our neighborhood is 50/50 LDS. It sounds like perhaps you are in one of the more strongly LDS areas.

LDS members are frequently taken by scammers because there is an automatic trust of church members. Sad.

You should read the book "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by M. Smith. Look for it on bookza dot org for a free download, or you can usually find it on the shelf at a bookstore. It goes hand in hand with NMMNG.

My wife is fairly religious, but not LDS. She is quite involved in her church. We raised our kids with the attitude that we would be open about our beliefs and we would respect each other's right to have their beliefs, and our kids can make up their own minds.

I can see how it is a problem though if your wife wants the kids to get fully involved in the LDS program. It puts a high demand on the kids' time, and it segregates them from the other kids by the time they get into high school due to all the activities and pressures.
 

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You might have a rough sled of it in LDS territory too. My brother in law moved to Mississippi and opened up a OB/GYN practice. It became very clear early on that failure to practice a religion was going to be fatal to his practice - "their kind" wasn't really welcome there. There is a growing Mormon presence right in my neighborhood now for some reason. Most of them seem to be good enough people, but they also very much keep within their group.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thor
First of all, i'm actually in sugarhouse so it's pretty balanced. I should say though that she isn't pushing that on the kids at all and has no intention of having them go to church or anything. That's not my issues. It's a fundamental thing. I don't believe there is a god. I am actually quite afraid that she isn't (in the end) going to accept this from me due to that comment she made. I'm worried about "dad is wrong" comments and such.

I have 0 problems with LDS people. Two of her sisters still practice. Basically it's not one religion or not. It's that I just don't believe in fairy tails.... I'll check out that book.
 

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I think the best move right now is to just talk to your wife openly about your beliefs and how you want things to work with your kids.
 

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Hello
I have a an extensive and long story if you're curious and if you read my threads you'll find i've arrived and have been practicing the no more mr nice guy school of healing. It has worked wonders for me so far. Got finances in shape, working on my confidence. Standing up for myself setting boundaries in a healthy way. There are still a lot of things though that make me question if we should be together or not. Mismatched Libidos and attitudes towards sex, views on the world but one of the largest I've seen is religion.

We've always agreed to disagree but i can see this becoming a larger issue. I live in a state (Utah) where you're are basically either LDS or not and those who are not are looked at strangely. My wife was raised mormon but does not practice. I was raised completely without religion and it was not really ever brought up.

There is massive confusion in our community. No religion=bad morals. My wife falls for some of it. She automatically trusts someone if they are LDS for example simply because of this. All of it makes me feel like I'm not what she wants even though she adamant about not practicing the LDS religion.

The trouble is. I'm a concious atheist. Meaning that I didn't arrive at that conclusion because I was told that. I've researched read, and thought for almost 10 years now seriously on the subject. I've simply tried beliving in a god believing that there is more. I cannot deny what i think and what I feel.

Recently our kids asked some questions my wife answered her point of view but was kind enough to say that dad believes something different. Later though she said that "We need to figure out what we are going to tell the kids, or you know.... you could get on board" that really hurt.

She knows that I don't think religion is necessarily a good thing i'm completely non-judgemental. If she wants to believe who am I to say she can't? however i don't think i've outright sat her down and said you know what? I don't believe in god and I'm now sure i'm not going to change and in fact my belief or lack thereof, keeps getting stronger and stronger. I don't believe that Jesus was anything more than a regular guy doing some good things.

Part of my Nice Guy healing is for me to be true to myself and to others about what I believe and how I feel. I need to do this with her. I know she probably knows but i need to really confirm with her. I want some tips some advice and some thoughts about this.. .thanks
If you're truly non-judgmental about what others believe, why not let your wife decide on what they are taught, as long as she does what she did... offer an explanation that some people have different beliefs, including their dad?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I couldn't agree more! I don't mind our kids exploring whatever they want. As long as they aren't told any one route including non-belief is wrong. That's my concern... because of her disrespect for me I am worried she doesn't take my views as seriously.
 

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You've respected her beliefs, so there's nothing more for you to do here.

I'd suggest not saying anything about it. (unless she initiates) Why do you feel a need to stir the pot? It's not your problem to fix. You're ok with your beliefs and hers. Just keep on being the good, non-believing man you are, and allow her to accept or reject you. Over time she's more likely to accept it. Shine bright lights on the issue now and she won't.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Almost Young
A very wise thought. Maybe i shouldn't bring this up now. I guess it comes at a time when both of us are seriously thinking about whether or not we should really stay together due to a lot of issues. So I guess i felt some compelling needs to say "hey this is me take it or leave it" and admittedly that comment she made is still stinging.
 

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I guess it comes at a time when both of us are seriously thinking about whether or not we should really stay together due to a lot of issues. So I guess i felt some compelling needs to say "hey this is me take it or leave it" and admittedly that comment she made is still stinging.
Here's the thing... In the position you are in, the only decision that can be made immediately is to end the relationship. Is that what you want?

If it is not, you need to allow time for a shift in heart.

Are you in a hurry for resolution? If so, I'd ask why.
 

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Yup. Teach them HOW to think, not WHAT to think.
If you could both get on the same page here..and just agree to give your children a balanced view of REASON in all things... teach Ethics... Compassion... Empathy ..Responsibility in all things...(all religions would agree)..it's the dogma you want to look at with a critical eye...appeal to her on the important things LIKE THIS..

Live by the Golden Rule...
... atheists would heartily agree...Just living a life of a decent person is hard enough, why complicate it more with all the divisions of Religion !

IN our House...our son is the Christian and we are the Heretics.....who question the divinity of Jesus.. Heaven & hell, I reject the original sin Doctrine...argue scripture...but we still respect each other...

He told me one day one of the greatest things I have given him is >> challenging him to THINK...to reason...Even when I was a believer years ago, I still wanted to hear all sides...I was never one to take my kids out of anything..but allow them to learn ...and make up their own minds..we can guide by example (and how very important it is)...how I look at this is >

 

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important things LIKE THIS..

Live by the Golden Rule... atheists would heartily agree...Just living a life of a decent person is hard enough, why complicate it more with all the divisions of Religion !
Good points, but atheists often prefer the platinum rule - "do unto others as they would have you do unto them", or the Wiccan creed - "an' it harm no one, do as ye will".
 

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Good points, but atheists often prefer the platinum rule - "do unto others as they would have you do unto them", or the Wiccan creed - "an' it harm no one, do as ye will".
I learn something new every day.. never heard of the Platinum rule!

I found this in a quick google search... The Golden Rule vs. The Platinum Rule

Good question....

For the purpose of this discussion I will formulate the rules as follows:

The Golden Rule: treat others the way we would like them to treat us.

The Platinum Rule: treat others the way they would like us to treat them.

To begin with, it is worth noting that the Platinum Rule can be derived from the Golden Rule by observing that we like to have our values and preferences respected. It follows then that we should extend the same courtesy to others. Therefore both rules encourage us to treat others the way they would like us to treat them.

The difference between the 2 guidelines is not in the kind of behaviour that they encourage, but in the tools that they provide us with to discern that behavior. The Golden Rule advises us to apply our personal experience to other people with the assumption that our overarching desires are shared by them. This can be tricky to do, but works well when applied correctly, and is probably indispensable. The Platinum Rule gives us no advice at all. It leaves it entirely up to us to figure out how other people would like us to treat them.

The question that interests me is why would we want to use the Platinum Rule when we have the Golden Rule at our disposal? What does the Platinum Rule give us that the Golden Rule does not? The only advantage I can see is that it is less open to interpretation, and so more difficult to abuse. Does it have any other advantages?
 

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The question that interests me is why would we want to use the Platinum Rule when we have the Golden Rule at our disposal? What does the Platinum Rule give us that the Golden Rule does not?
That's actually easy to answer.

Assume I am an extremely devout believer, back in the days of the Inquisition. I'd probably want to be burned at the stake for any slip-up in my words or actions as a form of penance, and by extension, would assume everyone would want the same courtesy extended to them! Hey, it's good enough for me, yet fortunately I've avoided screwing up. Too bad for them, they screwed up so we need to help them fix themselves.

That's where the Golden Rule fails and becomes abused. This is an extreme example, but it can be extended to almost anything as an excuse to mistreat others. Most reasonable people, though, will try to do the humane thing, but can easily be corrupted into doing the wrong thing.

The Platinum Rule sets a much higher, more ethical standard. You may actually have to ask what someone wants. In some crisis situations, you can't ask, and may have to assume, but most such situations have the same desired outcomes for anyone.
 

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I learn something new every day.. never heard of the Platinum rule!

I found this in a quick google search... The Golden Rule vs. The Platinum Rule

Good question....
Holy smokes!

You use the platinum rule when how you would want to be treated doesn't agree with how the other person wants to be treated. The golden rule suffices when everyone agrees on what "how I want to be treated" means.

It's actually not very different from the conversation we had just the other day about how different approaches to commenting here can be useful to different personalities. When I'm looking for help on a problem, that last thing I want is "there, there" comments, "sending prayers and thoughts your way!", or any of that soft we-support-you tripe. I want hard answers, dammit!

As for how to figure out how someone wants to be treated? Ask them.
 
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