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Red pill and MGTOW

11K views 84 replies 26 participants last post by  MaiChi 
#1 ·
As much as people question these groups, recent topics on TAM have proven the exact reason these groups exist. So many divorced people are their own worst enemy, even years after their divorces are final. There is a reason these groups are very popular within the screwed over single dad population. Dads rights matter, no matter who tries to minimize that or even take it away unilaterally, as one poster here suggests.

This is the exact reason that dads coming off a divorce are far less likely to jump into another relationship. Hypergamy is in full effect, so be careful out there.
 
#2 ·
As much as people question these groups, recent topics on TAM have proven the exact reason these groups exist. So many divorced people are their own worst enemy, even years after their divorces are final. There is a reason these groups are very popular within the screwed over single dad population. Dads rights matter, no matter who tries to minimize that or even take it away unilaterally, as one poster here suggests.



This is the exact reason that dads coming off a divorce are far less likely to jump into another relationship. Hypergamy is in full effect, so be careful out there.
What has happened to make you feel this is true?

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#3 ·
Someone makes the unilateral decision to keep their kids from their dad due to virus and social distancing. Gets tremendous support on TAM (of course) for pulling the rug out from her ex. I hope that dad calls his lawyer tomorrow. However, I don’t want to break any rules for talking about another thread here. So if I am, I’ll delete this.
 
#12 ·
Something to remember is that after a divorce, communication with ex's is often very difficult. It's not like in this sort of situation, talking through all angles of a situation with an ex is difficult at best and impossible at worse. When this is the case, it's often wise to really think things through the issue before bringing it up so that you are sure to have though through as many aspects that you can come up with.

My take on that thread is that this is what the OP is doing. She does not want to keep the children from their father. She wants to protect the children from a very bad illness.

It sounds to me like she's gotten good input and will end up talking to their father and hopefully come up with a good solution. My bet is that this is a big problem with a lot of families right now. It's tragic.
 
#15 · (Edited)
So I read the thread. I am assuming its the one -

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/439873-would-you-limit-parental-visitation-social-distancing.html

I think you might be a little sensitive because of your own situation. Speaking as a man I didn't see anything or anyone on there advocating for keeping kids away from their Dads just a difficult situation with someone looking for help. In fact some female posters came out very strongly against using this as an excuse for keeping kids away from their parents. No doubt there are bad people (both men and women doing this).

Long diatribe warning, but whatever I am stuck in the house for like 18 months now or whatever so I got time. AND YOU HAVE TIME TO READ IT! :wink2:

I am not accusing you of anything I write here I am just stating my belief.

Look there is Misandry and misogyny and both suck. I don't support Redpill because it's stupid. First of all it judges men by their sex count and sees ****ing women (and I use that word for effect because Redpill thinks about it just as crass) as a way to judge ones worth. In a sense it gives this twisted and corrupt view of women the ultimate power over these men. I mean in the one hand they say how awful women are but in the next they judge themselves by how many of them they can manipulate into having sex with them. It's stupid.

MGTOW, I see no problem with that but I have to be honest haven't looked into it as much. If you don't want to have relationships with women don't it's your life. Enjoy Fortnite on your 75 inch TV. If I was a single guy I would be thinking great less competition. I think they are making a mistake though. It's kind of like throwing the baby out with the bath water as far as I am concerned. I'm married and for the most part I think it has been good for my life. Any difficulties I might have are not because of marriage. Even in my marriage we have difficulties even some very hard ones at times because we are two people trying to live and share a life together. It's not and never was Disney. And you know what if we couldn't get over them we would divorce. But then again I married well, and that was on me. I married a decent person. I also choose someone who had priorities and goals so I know that even if we divorce she will be making her own money she has her own career that she cares about, makes comparable money so I am not going to get screwed. I always stated I am against a spouse being a stay at home parent for a longer then period when the kids are very young. Again that has noting to do with a persons gender, that's about who you marry. If she cheated that would suck, but I am a good husband and there are plenty of other women out there.

My point is having a bad experience in a relationship is because of who you had a relationship with not the gender of the person you had a relationship with. And I got to be honest some of the *******s some of the men (women too but we are talking about men) who come on her decided to have relationships with have me scratching my head. Look there are people you have fun with and people you marry. If you choose to marry an ******* don't be surprised that they continue to be an ******* when you divorce them. All these movements are big on personal responsibility but they never talk about the personal responsibility of marrying someone who already had a ****-ton of problems. Most of these guys who do that are suffering from White Knight syndrome.

But I got to be honest I chalk most of that up to no Father in the home (both for men and women). For 50 years men have failed to accept responsibility for this. As I see it a good father stamps that **** out when the kid is 15 and ****ing around with some POS, but even before that he should be talking to his sons and daughters about what they want in a marriage what their role will be if they are a son, what will be important for their husband if they are a daughter. The way bad men think, the way good men think for both. How you shouldn't judge yourself by the amount of people that choose to have sex with you. How as a man you should judge yourself by your honor in doing the right thing, taking responsibility, supporting your family, making your wife your priority (not your car, or your looks, or your game, or you team, how much money you make, or even your job), and generally being a provider (and that means both financially but also emotionally to a certain extent.) Finally if you do that you can be confident about your worth, and if you are confident make no mistake women will flock to you. And this is the guy who your daughter should be looking for. It ain't about playing games or your frame, or it least it doesn't have to be. Besides most wise men don't want a women who can be so easily manipulated at least not to marry, but hey if your life is about ****ing then yes Redpill works.

That's not to say there isn't some good things. Working hard and making money is good. Being ambitious is good. Taking care of your appearance is good, being confident when you talk to a women is good. But being confident in YOURSELF even if yourself is a nerd; talking to a potential mate and having her respond is a much better thing because it's real and it gives you the potential to have a relationship built on truth. Lifting weights should be done by all men as far as I am concerned as someone who got into it late. There is just something about pushing iron. Crazy but true. Yes ****ing take pride and joy in being masculine but that doesn't mean suppressing your emotions and being tough, it means strong enough to be soft when it is necessary or when it will help someone you care for, with your wife. It means being in control of your emotions.

Yes it's hard being a man (and I that doesn't mean I am saying it's not also being a women) and it's a ****ing goddamn privilege. Being a man is the most important Job/Role you will ever do and can ever do in your life, and you get the chance to do that every ****ing day. Thank God for that!

Let's start that ****ing movement. I will champion that to every young man around.

Finally I have to say from my work, I'm sorry but the Men have got to step it up. I am always constantly impressed by the young women I work with, many of them Mothers, some who I can tell are also having to take too much care of their husbands because of their off handed complaints. They work their asses off, lots of times because have to. Some of them end up doing a lot more work then they should. It is a far smaller pool of men who I see do the same thing. I'm sorry I am just being honest. And if you think I am some kind of modern feminist then you don't read my posts. I think the latest wave of feminism and identity politics and all that is "misguided" to be polite. I could write a whole post about that too.

What I am is someone who believes in women because I have a good Mother, and good Sisters, and good friends and colleagues who I am with every day and they consistently show me how awesome they are. Even many of the poster here, some who I don't agree with a lot and some who I admire greatly. A majority of women in this country (and probably in the world) are ****ing awesome! Yes they are different then us in general and thank God! That is part of what makes them wonderful.

What I would say to all these guys in these groups is first - STOP THINKING OF THEM AS A PATH TO ETERNAL HAPPINESS. Second - STOP LOOKING AT THEIR DESIRE FOR YOU AS A JUDGMENT OF YOUR WORTH. Third - STOP LOOKING AT THEM AS ONLY A MEANS TO GIVE YOU PLEASURE. Try getting to know them, talk to them, see how they think what they care about, how it's different and how it's the same. If for no other reason that it's fun, but also you can learn from them. You will soon grow to love and respect them if you don't. And you will respect them more if you already do. That is how you find a good partner. They are really one of the best things of this world that God created for all of us. We as men have to stop blaming them for our failures. We ****ing stormed the beaches at Normandy. We ****ing eradicated smallpox. We went to the moon. We wrote Clair De Lune, and The Silmarillion. We need to start acting like men, and that means taking responsibility for this world that we have created. Frankly who cares what women or other men think. Compete, lead, make it better!

I'm sorry some men have had ****ty times with their wives, but that has nothing to do with all women or marriage.

Women ****ing Rock!!!

End of one crazy diatribe from someone who has been working nonstop for 10 days and facing the prospect of being stuck the house for the rest of my life.
 
#51 ·
...

Long diatribe warning, but whatever I am stuck in the house for like 18 months now or whatever so I got time. AND YOU HAVE TIME TO READ IT! :wink2:

...

Finally I have to say from my work, I'm sorry but the Men have got to step it up. I am always constantly impressed by the young women I work with, many of them Mothers, some who I can tell are also having to take too much care of their husbands because of their off handed complaints. They work their asses off, lots of times because have to. Some of them end up doing a lot more work then they should. It is a far smaller pool of men who I see do the same thing. I'm sorry I am just being honest. And if you think I am some kind of modern feminist then you don't read my posts. I think the latest wave of feminism and identity politics and all that is "misguided" to be polite. I could write a whole post about that too.

What I am is someone who believes in women because I have a good Mother, and good Sisters, and good friends and colleagues who I am with every day and they consistently show me how awesome they are. Even many of the poster here, some who I don't agree with a lot and some who I admire greatly. A majority of women in this country (and probably in the world) are ****ing awesome! Yes they are different then us in general and thank God! That is part of what makes them wonderful.

What I would say to all these guys in these groups is first - STOP THINKING OF THEM AS A PATH TO ETERNAL HAPPINESS. Second - STOP LOOKING AT THEIR DESIRE FOR YOU AS A JUDGMENT OF YOUR WORTH. Third - STOP LOOKING AT THEM AS ONLY A MEANS TO GIVE YOU PLEASURE. Try getting to know them, talk to them, see how they think what they care about, how it's different and how it's the same. If for no other reason that it's fun, but also you can learn from them. You will soon grow to love and respect them if you don't. And you will respect them more if you already do. That is how you find a good partner. They are really one of the best things of this world that God created for all of us. We as men have to stop blaming them for our failures. We ****ing stormed the beaches at Normandy. We ****ing eradicated smallpox. We went to the moon. We wrote Clair De Lune, and The Silmarillion. We need to start acting like men, and that means taking responsibility for this world that we have created. Frankly who cares what women or other men think. Compete, lead, make it better! ...
 
#16 ·
Also when the dust settles let the other partner give you that extra time with your kids and then reflect at least I have my kids and they remained healthy. Others my not be as fortunate.
 
#24 ·
Just as certain sects of feminism are trying to swing the pendulum too far, Red Pill effectively does the same thing from the other side.

If that which you are endorsing attempts to enforce the wrongs of the past by taking its pound of flesh from the present, then you are not for equality.

Putting lipstick on a pig does not make it a princess.

That said, projection and triggering is a mighty nasty combination. If something elicits a strong emotional reaction, then it is likely one or both.

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#49 ·
Just as certain sects of feminism are trying to swing the pendulum too far, Red Pill effectively does the same thing from the other side.

If that which you are endorsing attempts to enforce the wrongs of the past by taking its pound of flesh from the present, then you are not for equality.

Putting lipstick on a pig does not make it a princess.

That said, projection and triggering is a mighty nasty combination. If something elicits a strong emotional reaction, then it is likely one or both.

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OP...... read my 3rd signature.
 
#36 ·
Well, I would say it is understandable to anyone who has had to go through a divorce, possible child custody battle, possible alimony payments....etc. to choose not to be legally, financially, property wise tied to any human ever again and to choose only to date casually. Date, fall in love possibly for as long as she is willing....but never move in together and never legally bind each other together.
If a separation ever comes....each can just walk away with no issues, no shared property, no shared dwelling, no shared income or accounts.
 
#39 ·
I believe you are conflating Father's rights/Men's right in divorce with the other things.

RP and MGTOW, are frankly about weak men that cannot get or keep a woman interested.

Yeah they will say that they are not, they are, sorry.

The reality is that men need to learn not to be weak, not to put people and woman on a pedestal, learn the you are a human being and you deserve to be treated like one.

That is all.

Understand your worth, love yourself so you can actually love others, be a strong person, say what you mean, and mean what you say.

How it ever got to the place it is I have no idea...
 
#47 ·
I believe you are conflating Father's rights/Men's right in divorce with the other things.

RP and MGTOW, are frankly about weak men that cannot get or keep a woman interested.

Yeah they will say that they are not, they are, sorry.

The reality is that men need to learn not to be weak, not to put people and woman on a pedestal, learn the you are a human being and you deserve to be treated like one.

That is all.

Understand your worth, love yourself so you can actually love others, be a strong person, say what you mean, and mean what you say.

How it ever got to the place it is I have no idea...
Yes, the majority are weak. And ill-trained/prepared at home and in high school. Boys are given such mixed messages.
Excel in sports and maybe also at academia.

What of the rest of life?
Boy, keep your head down, and your hands at your sides (maybe in your ripped out front pockets). Boy, let ladies be ladies, you, just be.... afraid.

A few men, those who are really strong and see not the need of any of what is served up to them, by ladies; these men have less interest in women, other than for sex.
Many are cads.

And a few who give up on women altogether, and go to their own gender for respect, love and sex.
From what I gather, these men rarely feel uplifted for the effort.
What type of pill should this last set of men take when these relationships fail?

Ah, hopefully, not cyanide.
 
#56 · (Edited)
Everyone is throwing out all this MGTOW stuff.

From what I understand about it...it just boils down to live, date, have sex, have relationships....
just never marry anyone. Never move in with anyone, never have kids with anyone...never legally join your income, accounts, retirement, investments with another person and put yourself in the position of losing your stuff and having a court come in and tell you you must give up half your 401K or pay for another full grown adult...who is no longer in your life.

Just as simple as that.
Date...just don't marry or put yourself in a common law marriage situation.

Unless one has the dream of marriage...that sounds pretty common sense and rational.
From what I understand many from this view have already been married and had courts and fake "abuse" claims have their kids for the most part taken away and they have to pay alimony.
As one who believes alimony is 100% immoral and ethical....when 2 adults go their separate ways then each is responsible for themselves and no other adult on earth is responsible to pay them to exist, I can understand paying alimony would make you plan to never marry again.
Do nothing but date and have different households and finances and incomes and to never go any further than that.
80 years ago you couldn't do that easily but after the sexual revolution and all the sleeping around, casual sex, and loose values....it is pretty easy.
 
#60 ·
I think what a some of these guys have to get their head around is Women are just people. I know it sounds crazy that they don't think that way but when they were with there wives they were goddesses who they couldn't understand and could do no wrong, and then when those wives divorce them they are demons who are out to eat men's souls.

At the end of the day maybe you just married and ******* or maybe you were the ******* and she left you. But that doesn't mean that is how it has to be or how it is for everyone. But it's the same kind of extreme thinking.
 
#61 ·
If your middle aged (or older like me) you already have your kids, you have your family, there is no reason to marry again. Once bitten, twice shy.

Would you ever invest your entire life savings into a stock that has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt? Would you put a loaded gun in your mouth with 3 live rounds in it? That’s marriage and there’s little upside for a divorced male who has his kids already.
 
#62 ·
There is statistical truth to this.

That said, somewhere in the mix of those statistics is the need for personal accountability in mate selection. I would say that a lack of ability to fix ones ‘picker’ inevitably leads some men this direction as well.

Sure, there are plenty of dysfunctional people...but...

You show me a divorce from a nut job woman, and I’ll show you a man who made the mistake of thinking she was a good selection for marriage.


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#64 ·
I like this post lots. This basically me.

I don't know the details of either of these "ideas" and not interested in labels and little interest in the details of either and won't waste time, bother looking into.

What I do know. I will never chance mixing my assets with another again. And from a little of this I read, none of my feelings is a concern to me to want them. I do. In my life I've had little issue of them wanting me.
 
#70 ·
I was talking about this thread with my girlfriend the other day... She pointed something out that I did not know:. The matrix was, in large part, about transgender.

I didn't know that until she mentioned it. So, the whole red pill thing comes from a movie created by trans gender women, and it was largely about being transgender. Kind of ironic isn't it?

Anyway, MGTOW has a lot of people with different views, but the core of it is basically this: "I don't what society says I am supposed to be doing, I am going to live my life to best suit me".

For people who have had the court system take their stuff and give it to someone else, it means never putting themselves into a position where that can happen again. For people who don't like the anxieties that often come with mixing your life with someone else, that means living alone and only having friends instead of life partners.

There are also those, like myself, who do not believe that governing bodies(nor anyone else) have the right to tell me who I should or should not love. So, I am polyamorous.

And yes, I do get flak from some individuals because I am willing to risk finances and freedom in order to live the way I want. Yes, one of my partners could file a false claim against me. Yes, I could get a divorce and lose my things. But those are things that will not crush me to lose.

I grew up without anything, so I know I can be just fine without any of it. Fear of losing my freedom does not stop me from signing it away every time I re enlist. Fear of death does not stop me from going into combat.

I am MGTOW because I really don't give a crap about how anyone else thinks I should live my life, certainly not other MGTOWers. I will simply live my life the way I see fit.

Oddly enough, this seems to make me more attractive. Just last night i had a very attractive Latina woman start flirting with me as we were discussing some of the philosophies taught by Anthony DeMello...

Everyone always has something to say about the way I live. For instance, I recently gave a homeless alcoholic a couple thousand dollars to help him get started again. He lived with me for a month and I managed to get him sober. The second he left, he went back to drinking. He is a pretty mean drunk, so nobody is willing to talk to him right now. The isolation and feelings of abandonment are scaring the crap out of him right now, which is just something he is going to have to deal with. He is also in a different country and cannot come back because of coronavirus.

I am willing to pay for his lodging for about half a year. Maybe more if it's needed. Most people tell me I am being hustled. But what is the problem? I can support him indefinitely and still grow my bank account. I can pay both of our ways for a year off of what is in my checking account alone, even if I don't get another pay check. So what is the problem? It isn't hurting me financially. It isn't hurting my family.

Everyone will have some things that they believe people shouldn't do. Some people believe it's wrong for men to refuse to marry. Some people believe it's wrong to support(they call it enable) mentally unstable addicts. Some people believe it's wrong to multiple romantic partners.

But seriously, who gives a crap?
 
#83 ·
You need to hold your line. It's a complete non starter if it's a woman. Maybe I'm just weird. I don't see the point of Dating if you have no intention of entering a committed long term relationship. I'm slowly softening on that but it still sticks in my throat.
Oh and also if She's still got it is watching, I'm not interested in men either.
 
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