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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
According to many of the professionals and posts from those of us in the "trenches" a formal or informal recommittment is recommended between the WS and BS at some time during reconciliation. Whether it is something like an exchanging of vows, covenant, contract, private or public is up to the two people and their comfort level to decide.
When I asked my WH after 1.5 years since DDay if he would be willing to do this, he surprised me by saying he didn't feel ready, why on earth would I want that after what he did with the first vows and that he didn't think they were necessary. So I asked him then what kind of relationship do we have if it is not a marriage...he replied he felt we had a marriage. Soon after Dday, I had the wedding ring cut off my finger and have not replaced it, telling him that was for him to do with a new ring if we survived...so far we have.
BTW, we have made good progress in our reconciliation with just a few outstanding questions from A and pre-A that need closure for me to move on, and fully forgive. While I am making progress in trusting him again, I do not think, at this time, that I will ever trust him as blindly as I did before Dday.(or anybody else for that matter) I hope to learn to forgive him fully but feel there will always be a hole in my heart over this until the day I die. My karma...
Am I wrong to feel that our original marriage with its broken vows is dead? Part of what I mourn still? That what we have now is a new marriage, born of our sincere desire to rebuild and enjoy our new relationship? Or has the original marriage morphed, evolved into the new relationship? Do the old rings still symbolize the old vows now broken and be discarded or should they represent the "for better or for worse" we vowed?
And how to understand my husband's reluctance to recommit? What could this mean besides he doesn't trust himself? Or still feels too ashamed? Or is keeping all of his options open without more dishonesty? (Suspicion! Paranoia!) I have told him I need this to feel secure, to build trust but am I kidding myself? Does an exchange of vows, rings, whatever assure security now if they didn't then?
Would love to hear some opinions on this subject. My backstory can be found by linking to the threads I have opened...
 

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1. You are not wrong to feel the old marriage is dead. It absolutely is dead. You must ... you BOTH must learn that this is now a new relationship.

2. Rings. I'm not sure what to say. I think it's up to you guys imo. Do you both want to use the old rings to show the better or worse? Or do you want to continue with the new relationship as a whole, rings and all? I think a new one would be better.

3. I feel he may have some issues committing. Maybe he doesn't trust himself? I'm not a pro. But I think some boundaries need to be set. Some agreements need to be in place. Such as full transparency, sharing of a facebook page etc. I know lots of couples that SHARE a page now instead of individual pages. And I definitely... DEFINITELY think you guys should get some counseling. I hope I did n't miss it but I didn't see anything about counseling.

4. Grats and I hope you guys get through this and begin to be happy once again.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks..yes we have had MC but not enough..I am in IC at this time and H has agreed to join me after holidays to settle this issue. , He has given me full transparency..still check his email and cell for incoming contact from OW as she has continued to contact H every 2-3 months esp around holidays..nothing this Christmas so far. Appreciate you reminder of bounderies with consequences...I definetly can emphasize that!
 

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Hi

In my view, nothing in life is static including ourselves, marriage, our spouse and everything else in life. Nothing comes with a guarantee in life as we know.

I do believe nothing will necessarily confirm our commitments forever. Certainly, I feel that no "new ring" will represent our commitment.

Perhaps, little nice things to each other in our marriage is a sign of our commitments to each other.

No grand gesture or any object will immortalize our commitment. Marriage is an act of doing positive things to one another and nothing (an object) can replace these selfless act of loving.

Love does not control; love does not dictate. Love is a spiritual "state" which no "object" can replace. Marriage is a miracle where two people/ originally complete strangers come together but at the same time, you also need to prove that you are worthy of your spouse's love and his commitment in every single day.

After all, it is a two way process and it's not something you can "get" and then all will be well. It is above all, a journey two people make each day and every day no matter how hard it is..

Good luck.
 

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Sorry for intruding, but I couldn't help notice the honesty you got here. Maybe it's not enough for you, but I could not help but point it out. Looks like you did well here. I am sorry for your pain.


Quote:

When I asked my WH after 1.5 years since DDay if he would be willing to do this, he surprised me by saying he didn't feel ready,
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks so mucch for input..great advice. We rang in the new year by talking about this till 2 am... H feels what we have is stiil original marriage wth us surviving the "for worse" part. He is not ready to recommit feeling we have not yet achieved the emotional intimacy we once had but lost..more that HE has not. He also admitted that he felt he could more honestly share deep feelings with his AP than with me at times...altho he is hopeful and expects to be able to do that with me in future. I respect his honesty (at last) .
Omegaa, I think your take on marriage is very close to how H feels and you have good points...and I agree to a point. But I recognize in myself that I have a great affinity for the symbolic which rings represent : the promise, the hope that defines marriage...but I also know thst it is so much more than that too...it is the everyday small gestures that hold it all together. Thanks so much for all commentors good will and concern..it helps more than you know!
 

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We rang in the new year by talking about this till 2 am... He also admitted that he felt he could more honestly share deep feelings with his AP than with me at times...altho he is hopeful and expects to be able to do that with me in future. I respect his honesty (at last) .
Omegaa,
Hi allwillbewell

Are you living separately from your h at the moment? Is this one of the reasons why you feel somewhat unsure at the moment?

It's brilliant that you were able to talk to your h and you are making so much progress...

Wish you all the best,
 

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And how to understand my husband's reluctance to recommit? What could this mean besides he doesn't trust himself? Or still feels too ashamed? Or is keeping all of his options open without more dishonesty? (Suspicion! Paranoia!) I have told him I need this to feel secure, to build trust but am I kidding myself? Does an exchange of vows, rings, whatever assure security now if they didn't then?
Would love to hear some opinions on this subject. My backstory can be found by linking to the threads I have opened...
Hi :)

I don't think you have any paranoia or suspicion over nothing. Your h said he was able to express his deeper feelings with his AP and his A lasted 6 years.

If your h isn't too keen on "rings" then perhaps, he could suggest something else?
I really don't know your situation well but hope you get all the answers you are looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Omegaa, no we are still together, never seperated even right after Dday...one of the first things I did say was that he had to leave, and tell our children first. Before he could, I asked him if he wanted to work on saving marriage which he did and then I stipulated that A must end immediately and NC other than to tell her via email. I wanted to save our children(and me!) from the shame, anger and hurt of public disclosure, and mostly loss of respect for their father, if possible. Especially if we were successful in putting it behind us. Asap we started a weekend MC marathon which is where he first really saw the destruction and devastation he had brought to me. I went thru alot of hysterical bonding and asked a zillion questions but he was unwilling to answer, actually getting angry at times, etc. He couldn't face reading any of the books I suggested in the hopes of learning what I was going thru was typical and normal. Would have learned something about himself, how affairs work, the fog, etc. Anywoo, I gained access to his emails and read 5 years worth of his mail to OW. Thats how I learned 95% of it. As you can imagine: devastating and the fuel for the next 18 months of triggers, obsessing, lots of emotional cutting on my part. I still struggle as you can tell by my posts. Complicating the whole process of healing was that for the first 6 months, I believe he was still very conflicted about OW...they had had a 6 year relationship. I have accepted the fact that he may have loved her, altho one of the first things he uttered when found out was that he didn't know what love was! And he had to relearn how to love me again as he claims that had completely disappeared. He was not the type of WS who claimed he never stopped loving me! I caught him a few times in lies of ommission when I found texts or calls on his phone. I believe he originally told her he would let her know how MC worked out for us and that really didn't surprise me considering the circumstances. However, then he claims he stopped all contact within a few weeks of MC but she had continued contacting him every 2-3 months with the last contact in late Oct of this year. He admitted to responding to texts occasionally until last Christmas when I discovered more of hers to him, went ballistic and threatened to end it all. I sent her an email detailing the pain I was going thru and my side of the story of our marriage, she replied telling me he had an affair 20 years ago that I didn't know about(not true) and at that point I decided I needed NC with her toxicity. She sent a one year anniversary of DDay email, telling him how he had ripped her heart out, betrayed her, how what they had was the best thing that ever happened to her(did I mention she was married w/children?) and the rest of the usual OW drivel. Of course she included all the monkey sex references for my benefit and some of the nastier stuff he had told her about me knowing I had access to his email. Hopefully, because I found no evidence of contact this holiday season, she has moved on maybe...I still check daily!
I know my husband sounds like a complete cad, unwilling to do the heavy lifting of helping me heal and deep into denial, rug sweeping and blame shifting and to a point he was/is. However, he has changed quite a bit, much more attentive, affectionate, talkative(not about A details but more about his everyday life and feelings. The NYE's discussion was incredibly revealing in that I realized more deeply where he is coming from and how he is trying to mend lack of emotional intimacy. I believe he was seriously depressed over his behavior, his poor choices, lack of honor and integrity but didn't know how to deal with it. I always knew my H was one who would rather lose his left nut than face negative emotions especially the ones he caused himself. He was a cake eater but also looking to avoid the drama and revelations to me that would have ensued from his AP if he broke it off and truly believed like so many that as long as I didn't know, no one was hurt... I have done a huge amount of learning about myself and what I did that alienated him early on(even 20 years ago according to him)and how it built up for him to the point where he felt I didn't love him and he didn't love me and he could justify an A, etc. PLEASE don't think I accept ANY blame for his cowardly decision to not to come to me with his hurts, resentments and needs 20 years ago or his decision to abandon his vows and marriage for the A pleasure..I don't. But I do know now how I contributed to the brokenness of the marriage and have owned up and made changes. The bittersweet reality is that now that we ARE doing so much better than 6 years ago, if only he had come to me then, none of this pain for all 4 of us would have been necessary. So many lost years in our lives that because of our age, may have only a few decades left to enjoy. I struggle daily to move on and not let this pain consume me...its getting better and know from other posters on this site that I can expect to struggle for at least a few more years and even then it will remain a lost and painful chapter in my life. I just hope that we can become the deep and emotionally connected lovers we had the potential to be in the beginning...thanks so much for your help and concern...
 

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Hi allwillbewell

As I commented similarly before, from what you had described, we must have been living in a parallel world.

I understand where you are coming from totally.

I was curious as to how you had first "discovered" his affair?

Hope you'll continue to make excellent progress in your recovery. You sound like a passionate and committed Wife. Your H is very lucky to have you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Over the six years of A I had suspected and asked him numerous times if he was havinf an A. He always denied it and because he was so good at appearing normal during family/friend times, I believed...part of my great remorse is that I didn 't do a little investigating...evidence would have been so easy to find on his cell phone in undeleted calls and texts...and thats finally how I found out. I was putting on my earrings over our dresser getting readybto go out when his phone went off and a text was displayed that I read thaat began my further investigating into past messages. I even gave a thought that it was one of his male friendsnplaying a joke on him! Hownsmore stupid could I be?! I stuffed my emotions for the night but the next day after our daughter went out I confronted him and he tried to evade by saying be didn't want totalk about it. I told him the gig was up and he wasn 't going anywhere until he answered my questions...he then fessed up but admitting to only a year long A...I learned it was 6 years fom OW's husband. He never to this day willingly gave out info or fully answered my qquestions, I found out most if the details by reading his emails...if only he had answered the questions I had at the time, I wouldn 't have felt compelled to find out details that haunt me now. Titillating each other erotica and sexual details, etc He lays it at my feet that I have all that pain because I choose to read the crap saying I misinterpret or take out of context their signifigance. Andnow after 18 months if I bring anything up from them that I still struggle over and feel needs closure he says I am raking up the past and beating up on him...there is some truth to that: my MC says I need to talk that poison out to her and not to my husband anymore as he sounds like he is at the breaking point. He is the type of person who just cannot face strong negative emotions which is how our marriage began to falter in the first place : rather than confront me over small things he stuffed them and grew resentful and lost respect for me until he got to aplace where he justified an A. I think he understands how he needs to change but in my view he needs major IC to get there which I doubt he will ever seek himself. We 'll see how it goes when I suggest we both go back , to MC asa our daughter goes backnto school...
Omegaa, what is your story? How does it compare too mine, how do you cope? Its just so crazy that I get support from people I don't know and who live halfway around the world! Crazy good, I mean!
 

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How does it compare too mine, how do you cope?
Hi There are so many similarities in what you describe.

Does your h use his separate computer?
Mine was using his own laptop to keep in touch with his AP regularly (every evening to be precise) until DDay.

If your h has his own laptop/computer etc then it may be worth looking into what sort of images he may have been looking at / his browser history if you hadn't done this already.

I appreciate where you are coming from. I also have a copy of a number of incriminating emails between my wh & his AP. It's mostly about hot and kinky Sex - not much else. I am not planning to discard these anytime soon.

Whenever he's using his laptop, it ALWAYS reminds me of what he was doing. We cannot be so naive anymore after what he was up to for the past few years...!

Please keep up with the GOOD WORK!!! :)
 
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