[gemjo]

Hi all
I am really struggling today.

I was in R with my H, after finding out he had a ONS. He appeared to be doing all the right things, appeared to be saying all the right things, but I felt there could be more skeletons so I asked him to do a poly and he quickly admitted he had 2 further ONS. I had an idea he had been unfaithful at a works conference, and I was right. he'd spent a whole year in false R with me, trying to convince me I had the whole truth.

This has been a huge set back for me. One ONS could be considered a very big mistake, but something you can learn from, and even accept in a long term marriage. But now I know he has done this 3 separate times over a period of about 6 or 7 years.

We are trying to R again, hopefully this time with the truth, but not sure how I'm meant to know I have the truth as he has proven himself to be such an ACE at lying. My gut is I have the truth now. But I wont ever know that for sure.

What I am struggling with as the days go by.....3 times, he did this to me and his children 3 times! I have always been of the opinion that if my H cheated that would be it, no second chances...But then when it happens you stop and realise this is life to some extent...and everyone can make a mistake. Even a really big one, they can learn from it and hopefully move on vowing never to betray again. If a spouse cheats once and you give them a warning, no second chances and they cheat again, then you file for Divorce. But what do you do when you find out they have already cheated on you 3 times?

This man I thought was my perfect husband and a perfect father. He is not that man, now he is a different man.

I do love him, and I believe he loves me. I do want my marriage to survive but as the days go by I keep asking myself what will our future be with me having this knowledge about him. He isn't the man i thought he was in any way, that man would never have betrayed me 3 times.

Not sure if R is the right thing even if we do love each other. Others must file for D still loving their WS.

I don't believe he had any remorse at the times he cheated, or guilt. When i questioned him after his last cheat he was very calm and calculated......I guess that says a lot!

He does seem genuinely remorseful now, but only because he has seen the pain he has caused me. If i'd never found out he more than likely wouldn't have stopped at 3 ONS, and I have come to the conclusion that after each of these ONS he would have gone back for more if the opportunity had been there.

He has been to IC via MC, is being transparent as far as i can see, I have passwords to FB and email access if i want it. He is doing everything he can do now....but it doesn't seem to be enough.

Another thing, he smoked weed for all of our marriage, and threw it in the bin on first DD. He seems like a different man since he stopped smoking it. He also seems to hold it responsible in some ways for his actions. Not acute actions but more his general lifestyle for a lot of years of our marriage.

I am wondering if it is all too late for us to be saved.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

(sorry this was long)

 

[TCSRedhead]

The thing is, only you can know that. Is there enough that you love about this man and your marriage to work through this?

Try making a list of the good things about him - what did you fall in love with? Is that still there?

 

[canttrustu]

wow. Gemjo. Im so sorry. this is a BS' biggest fear isnt it? I know for sure its mine. fear of the unknown. Knowing what accomplished liars they are. I guess my question to you is are there more reasons to stay than there are to go? Has he gotten to the bottom of WHY? Are you satisfied with that answer? I think in my case(H had an EA) the 'why' was huge. So for you and your H, what is the why? and do you think its legit? do you consider it 'fixable'?

 

[DawnD]

He isn't the man i thought he was in any way, that man would never have betrayed me 3 times.

Hi gemjo. One of the crappiest things we have to do when we are trying to reconcile, is to realize that the spouse we knew and loved is no longer there. The betrayal literally makes them a different person. The old husband, the one you trusted completely is gone, and now you have the accurate version. Do you love the accurate version?


I don't believe he had any remorse at the times he cheated, or guilt. When i questioned him after his last cheat he was very calm and calculated......I guess that says a lot!
You are right, it does say a lot. He either is very good at compartmentalizing things, or he truly did not at all consider the consequences of his actions.



He does seem genuinely remorseful now, but only because he has seen the pain he has caused me. If i'd never found out he more than likely wouldn't have stopped at 3 ONS, and I have come to the conclusion that after each of these ONS he would have gone back for more if the opportunity had been there.
I felt the same way about mine. That he would have continued on without a worry in the world had it not been found out. And that is something we all have to come to terms with. I have accepted that my H very well may cheat again,and have made it crystal clear that I will not stay in a marriage with him if he does.


He has been to IC via MC, is being transparent as far as i can see, I have passwords to FB and email access if i want it. He is doing everything he can do now....but it doesn't seem to be enough.
Because the hurt is still so fresh for you, you want him to DO SOMETHING to "get you" yes?? I think a lot of the time the DS's struggle trying to think of what they can do to prove they are worthy. Its not like they can take it back, and they don't want to come off as patronizing or cheap. Have you any thoughts about the things you would like to change in your relationship to make you feel more secure?

Sometimes things can be saved, sometimes not. It is all up to you. I know that feeling you have, almost like you are losing respect for yourself by considering staying with his after 3 ONS's. But you have to try and remember that the one you should lose respect for is HIM. HE did this, not you. You are simply trying to figure out if you can live with it. No reason to rush, give yourself time to figure it all out.

 

[gemjo]

Hi redhead,

Yeah I love loads about my H. If I wrote a list it would be a long list of good points v one big humdinger x 3 on the bad list.

Having loads of good points doesn't change the fact he was capable of not only making a great big stupid mistake, but that he didn't come home remorseful, he chose to keep his secret and do it again and then again....this is the killer!

Thanks for your words x

 

[TCSRedhead]

Hi redhead,

Yeah I love loads about my H. If I wrote a list it would be a long list of good points v one big humdinger x 3 on the bad list.

Having loads of good points doesn't change the fact he was capable of not only making a great big stupid mistake, but that he didn't come home remorseful, he chose to keep his secret and do it again and then again....this is the killer!

Thanks for your words x

You're absolutely right, those things don't negate the wrong that he did. They should help you decide if they are worth trying to salvage this marriage or not.

I am sorry - this is unbelievably painful to go through. When my EA came to light, this was the exercise we both did to find out IF this marriage had any merit or possibility of a future. After all, if we couldn't think of anything we loved any more, it would be best to walk away then.

Initially - this was the hardest thing for him to do. He came up with very practical reasons (family/money/obligation) but really nothing about LOVE or emotional connection.

There are definitely good days and bad days. Today, seems to be a good day. Friday, I was certain it was over. Tomorrow - who knows?

I hope things get better for you.

 

[gemjo]

wow. Gemjo. Im so sorry. this is a BS' biggest fear isnt it? I know for sure its mine. fear of the unknown. Knowing what accomplished liars they are. I guess my question to you is are there more reasons to stay than there are to go? Has he gotten to the bottom of WHY? Are you satisfied with that answer? I think in my case(H had an EA) the 'why' was huge. So for you and your H, what is the why? and do you think its legit? do you consider it 'fixable'?

I think he has gotten to the bottom of WHY? But I only know what he tells me and he only tells me what I ask him, and even then I fear he thinks too long about how his answers will affect me. When all I need is the complete truth.

I believe the true reason to be he thought he was missing out on something, someone came along and showed a little interest and he had no willpower. Didn't think about me or his children.....just a stupid selfish act with women who aren't fit to walk the same path as me.

Biggest sh1tty thing is, just after I first suspected he may have cheated our lives changed for the better as Two eldest left home for Uni etc... So we had so much more time for one another and just as things were starting to come good, meals out, weekends away.....getting closer.....it was really already too late. He'd cheated just months before. That's the hardest thing for me to deal with, it was just last year!

 

[gemjo]

Sometimes things can be saved, sometimes not. It is all up to you. I know that feeling you have, almost like you are losing respect for yourself by considering staying with his after 3 ONS's. But you have to try and remember that the one you should lose respect for is HIM. HE did this, not you. You are simply trying to figure out if you can live with it. No reason to rush, give yourself time to figure it all out.

You hit the nail on the head. Losing respect for myself by considering giving him another chance......it's such a gamble.

I won't rush, but as time ticks by I'm becoming more rational about
what he did to me....with seemingly such little regard providing I never found out.

I have lost my respect for him, I always said he was my 'raft' he kept me safe. He was the one person in this world I trusted to not hurt me, and yet he has destroyed me, and seemingly all for nothing. A few quick drunken fumbles, slept off in another woman's hotel room.....my respect has turned to disgust. Will that ever change?

 

[Gabriel]

Gemjo - go forward with the polygraph. He admitted to 2 more before you got there, right? The only way you'll REALLY know how many is to make him do the poly anyway. Shouldn't be a problem, if he has no more to hide, right???

 

[gemjo]

Gemjo - go forward with the polygraph. He admitted to 2 more before you got there, right? The only way you'll REALLY know how many is to make him do the poly anyway. Shouldn't be a problem, if he has no more to hide, right???

Yeah, have discussed this for after Christmas, he has said he will do it, and arrange it, but not sure it would make enough of a difference to me now. Even if it's all truth, it's too little way too late.

To be honest knowing he has cheated 3 times is enough, what difference would it be to me if he did a poly and he ended up having cheated another 6 times.....

3 times is already too many times.

I just feel like such an F'ing fool!

 

[Gabriel]

Yeah, have discussed this for after Christmas, he has said he will do it, and arrange it, but not sure it would make enough of a difference to me now. Even if it's all truth, it's too little way too late.

To be honest knowing he has cheated 3 times is enough, what difference would it be to me if he did a poly and he ended up having cheated another 6 times.....

3 times is already too many times.

I just feel like such an F'ing fool!

Well, the point wouldn't be the number, it would be the lying. Lying is often the worst part. Lying is what crushes trust. You can't start climbing out until you know you're at the bottom.

 

[gemjo]

Well, the point wouldn't be the number, it would be the lying. Lying is often the worst part. Lying is what crushes trust. You can't start climbing out until you know you're at the bottom.

So true, I did keep saying, just tell me the truth, I can cope with truth better than the lies.....but I am struggling with the truth....as much as with the lies....maybe if he'd confessed all on first DD I would be feeling differently right now, but who knows?

In some ways I feel I should be stronger, and that I deserve better, but there is some small part of me that is holding on just in case he has changed now he is faced with what he has done to me and how close he is to losing me....but the mind is complex and for every 'if' there is a 'but' and I'm so scared about whatever decision I make.

So I make none.....I live each day as it comes, and there are more good than bad, but right now I'm in a bad place. My hormones are not helping I can tell you! Pms week is a ****** for sure!

Wedding anniversary at weekend, 17 years, we have booked a long weekend away.....watch this space.

 

[Kasler]

Gemjo, you have to do what you need to for your health.

You may want to R, but not at the cost of you dying a little on the inside each day.

Its probably not helpful, but you're gonna have to go deeper than ever and see if you can know if you truly want to be with him in the future.

His affairs and lying will always make a space between you. With R it may get smaller, but it'll never go away. There is also a ceiling on trust. You'll never be able to trust him fully again, and in the future will be wondering where he is, what hes doing, and who hes with because of his past.

The question is, can you live with that for what could be the rest of your life?

Some can do it, some can't.

I myself fall into the latter category, but everyone is different when it comes to the bleak/bittersweet outlook of the relationship post DDay/s

 

[gemjo]

Gemjo, you have to do what you need to for your health.

You may want to R, but not at the cost of you dying a little on the inside each day.

Its probably not helpful, but you're gonna have to go deeper than ever and see if you can know if you truly want to be with him in the future.

His affairs and lying will always make a space between you. With R it may get smaller, but it'll never go away. There is also a ceiling on trust. You'll never be able to trust him fully again, and in the future will be wondering where he is, what hes doing, and who hes with because of his past.

The question is, can you live with that for what could be the rest of your life?

Some can do it, some can't.

I myself fall into the latter category, but everyone is different when it comes to the bleak/bittersweet outlook of the relationship post DDay/s

I know what you are saying, and I can, I believe trust he won't do anything like this again, not now he has seen what he has done to me, and the two eldest children know what he has done also. He is disgusted with himself, and knowing what we know about him.

He is doing everything right now, and I trust he will continue to do the right thing......the problem is can I accept the past?

Knowing he isn't the man I thought he was, or am I living some idealistic nonsense....is that my naivety and innocense being flushed down the toilet I don't like.

 

[Kasler]

I know what you are saying, and I can, I believe trust he won't do anything like this again, not now he has seen what he has done to me, and the two eldest children know what he has done also. He is disgusted with himself, and knowing what we know about him.

He is doing everything right now, and I trust he will continue to do the right thing......the problem is can I accept the past?

Knowing he isn't the man I thought he was, or am I living some idealistic nonsense....is that my naivety and innocense being flushed down the toilet I don't like.

Thats a tough one. I wouldn't say its your naivete and innocence being tossed in the wind, but more you've been given a harsh outlook on him as a person. Basically removing the pink colored glasses and seeing someone for who they really are.m

Thats rough, but it depends on can you acknowledge the person after the glasses are removed and form a new relationship with that person.

 

[DawnD]

You hit the nail on the head. Losing respect for myself by considering giving him another chance......it's such a gamble.

I won't rush, but as time ticks by I'm becoming more rational about
what he did to me....with seemingly such little regard providing I never found out.

I have lost my respect for him, I always said he was my 'raft' he kept me safe. He was the one person in this world I trusted to not hurt me, and yet he has destroyed me, and seemingly all for nothing. A few quick drunken fumbles, slept off in another woman's hotel room.....my respect has turned to disgust. Will that ever change?

If I die tomorrow, and the worst thing people can say about me is that I took a chance on my H after knowing what he was capable of, I will die happy. I was there for a long time, where I felt like I was less of a person for reconciling. But then I look around, and I want to be here. Sometimes that is not the case for couples trying to R, and there is no shame in that either.

I think once you accept fully that he has done it, and accept that he was willing to risk it all for some strange, you start to come to a conclusion. You either decide you can TRY to reconcile (by trying I mean you attempt to move forward in the relationship) or you can decide that yes he is human, but you can not deal with his demons and behavior. I truly think that his false R set you up for failure. Going through it once is tough, twice is earth shattering.

 

[DawnD]

In some ways I feel I should be stronger, and that I deserve better, .

You absolutely do. Whether or not that better comes from him or someone else is the true question.

 

[Gabriel]

Personally, I would cancel the anniversary trip. If you go, you'll be sending the message of forgiveness and moving forward, celebrating, which is something you are not ready to do yet.

Maybe go by yourself to think.

 

[brokenhearted2]

I'm sorry for your sadness and being forced to make a decision due to your H making some really lousy ones. I recall years ago, dear Abbey (or Ann Landers) wrote in one of her columns about infidelity that you have to ask yourself one question regarding R. - would your life be better with him or without him? Do you want to stay married to a liar? Did he put you at risk for an STD ? If he was never caught would he continue cheating? What does your gut tell you? Go with that. You might have a nice life ahead of you without him. Best of luck to you .
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[gemjo]

If I die tomorrow, and the worst thing people can say about me is that I took a chance on my H after knowing what he was capable of, I will die happy. I was there for a long time, where I felt like I was less of a person for reconciling. But then I look around, and I want to be here. Sometimes that is not the case for couples trying to R, and there is no shame in that either.

I think once you accept fully that he has done it, and accept that he was willing to risk it all for some strange, you start to come to a conclusion. You either decide you can TRY to reconcile (by trying I mean you attempt to move forward in the relationship) or you can decide that yes he is human, but you can not deal with his demons and behavior. I truly think that his false R set you up for failure. Going through it once is tough, twice is earth shattering.

I agree with you that I won't leave this world having tried to the best of my ability to do what ever it takes to save my marriage. I know it's still early days, but for some reason, I can't work out if he's being completely honest or if he is still trying to say the right thing instead of the truth. I ask a question and he's willing to listen to me, but he seems stumped in his answers. He just doesn't know what to say to me....it seems like such hard work!

I feel like he is being too guarded in his replies instead of just answering the truth. He keeps saying he doesn't know, or life was confusing because of how much weed he smoked. I ask 'did you think of me before you did these things?' he can't seem to answer me.......so I don't know, I've never been a pot head! Maybe his memories are jumbled, maybe he is telling me all he can. I feel like he is trying to say what he thinks I want to hear, and to me it doesn't make sense.

I ask why didn't you have enough remorse to tell me after the first ONS and we could have worked on any problems, because I didn't know we had any.....so what chance did I have to make changes? He says work was work and home was home! So this is compartmentalisation.....so what does that really mean? Is this his nature? Can it be changed?

I'm still very confused but willing to try anything, and he is acting all devastated at the prospect of losing me....but still it's hard work to get anything out of him, that actually makes sense or seems genuine....or maybe I want answers to questions and there aren't any! Do I make any sense? Or am I going crazy?