Talk About Marriage banner

41 - 60 of 89 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
While I agree that EAs can be as devastating as PAs, PAs have the added "bonus" of the mental video or images that pop up in a BS head. This is not just a male thing but a female thing as well. It takes months or years of PTSD type therapy to help conquer those horrible video or images. They are crippling, I should know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,381 Posts
While I agree that EAs can be as devastating as PAs, PAs have the added "bonus" of the mental video or images that pop up in a BS head. This is not just a male thing but a female thing as well. It takes months or years of PTSD type therapy to help conquer those horrible video or images. They are crippling, I should know.
Ya, they're different beasts.

EAs have the problem that it's hard to define what the problem actually is, and easy to feign/maintain/re-write the whole thing as innocence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
"I seriously believe most people don't see themselves having an affair when they get married"

Of course they don't.

The most selfish and disgusting people I have ever met still viewed themselves as good and upstanding people.

They were also the type that pointed fingers everywhere but at themselves when some incident or problem arose.

It's why I don't give a da*n about what people say or think....I judge people by what they DO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,149 Posts
Having been on the inside of many threads thru PM's.
Its uncommon.
Most common of the uncommon.
Real "Just Kissed" Ive seen
1) Most common of these Ive seen are the make out with a random guy on a GNO either in a car or right at the bar. Note a couple were male strippers who wanted more. The VIP room at a male review... Apparently anything goes. Some women just cant ramp up to sex that fast I guess.
2) An ex on *INCIDENTAL* meeting. IE unplanned meet up like at an event.
3) Coworker at party. Again unplanned meeting.
When a meet up is planned... Not sure I have ever seen it not end in sex.
Virtually all involved large quantities of alcohol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,381 Posts
It's uncommon because it makes little sense to go that far, and then not actually do the deed.

I mean, think about it. They've already risked the primary relationship, so from the cheater's mindset it's little additional risk. They're already addicted to the attention, and if they stop short they might lose the one that's giving them so much attention. And, the person must be attractive to them for some reason to already be at that point... so nature takes it's course.

It's just emotional and sexual economics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
Ya, they're different beasts.

EAs have the problem that it's hard to define what the problem actually is, and easy to feign/maintain/re-write the whole thing as innocence.
EAs and PAs have ranges. EAs can range from excessive communication and sharing of personal and marital information all the way to declarations of love and expressions of desire to be with the AP. While PAs can range from sexting and making out all the way to secret meeting in hotels, apartments or houses for full blown sex sessions.

EAs can be easier to gaslight because they can be sold as simple "friendship" while ignoring that an innocent friendship is never hidden from the other spouse nor does it become the dominating time consumer in a spouse's daily life who could be using that time for other things, such as communicating and sharing those same things with her/his spouse.

On the other hand PAs can never be gaslighted, not even with the often used and ludicrous cheater statement "It's not what you think honey". For how can sexting or being caught red handed having sex with another person be explained away? They can't. Even in a situation where the couple is in "the lifestyle" where they establish rules of conduct, such a scenario could be a major rule breaker.

Both hurt like hell because of one common denominator, trust has been destroyed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,982 Posts
EAs and PAs have ranges. EAs can range from excessive communication and sharing of personal and marital information all the way to declarations of love and expressions of desire to be with the AP. While PAs can range from sexting and making out all the way to secret meeting in hotels, apartments or houses for full blown sex sessions.

EAs can be easier to gaslight because they can be sold as simple "friendship" while ignoring that an innocent friendship is never hidden from the other spouse nor does it become the dominating time consumer in a spouse's daily life who could be using that time for other things, such as communicating and sharing those same things with her/his spouse.

On the other hand PAs can never be gaslighted, not even with the often used and ludicrous cheater statement "It's not what you think honey". For how can sexting or being caught red handed having sex with another person be explained away? They can't. Even in a situation where the couple is in "the lifestyle" where they establish rules of conduct, such a scenario could be a major rule breaker.

Both hurt like hell because of one common denominator, trust has been destroyed.
There are actually BS's out there that fall for this bullsh*t line. I can't provide a link at the moment, but I've actually read at least one thread here where a BH walked in on his WW in bed w/ another man. They fed him the "it's not what it looks like" bullsh*t, and he completely fell for it.

For a while, anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
There are actually BS's out there that fall for this bullsh*t line. I can't provide a link at the moment, but I've actually read at least one thread here where a BH walked in on his WW in bed w/ another man. They fed him the "it's not what it looks like" bullsh*t, and he completely fell for it.

For a while, anyway.
@GusPolinski Gus don't you know that the guy was a friend who was simply helping the wife out with a vaginal massage using his penis? It's done all the time. (dammit, #$%[email protected] sarcasm switch won't shut off).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
"@GusPolinski Gus don't you know that the guy was a friend who was simply helping the wife out with a vaginal massage using his penis? It's done all the time. (dammit, #$%[email protected] sarcasm switch won't shut off)."

lol....yeah, ungrateful SOB.

He should have been more appreciative and thankful for OM's care and effort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,982 Posts
@GusPolinski Gus don't you know that the guy was a friend who was simply helping the wife out with a vaginal massage using his penis? It's done all the time. (dammit, #$%[email protected] sarcasm switch won't shut off).
"That's cool. Hey there, Mr. Masseur, let me use this shotgun to help extricate you from my home. That said, I'm going to need help to 'help' you, which is cool, because a few folks will be along in a few minutes to carry what's left of you out on a stretcher."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
"That's cool. Hey there, Mr. Masseur, let me use this shotgun to help extricate you from my home. That said, I'm going to need help to 'help' you, which is cool, because a few folks will be along in a few minutes to carry what's left of you out on a stretcher."
No, no, no Gus you don't say that. You say "Mr Masseur permit me the pleasure of helping you enter Nirvana. No need to thank me, it will be my pleasure" and then go BOOM!. >:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,730 Posts
I was gonna say, gas-lighting and TT for PAs are common. With my situation it was everything from:

1 just friends, no touching at all
2 just hugs, because that's what good friends do
3 touching shoulders, hands
4 rub his face (did this in front of me), he doesn't mind
5 touched mid-section while slow dancing, noticed some wood coming thru, must have been the song
6 rubbed his junk thru his pants, he felt her stuff
7 he saw my bra when I was changing, but no big deal, he's like my brother
8 saw him in his undershorts
9 took a nap together, spooned with him
10 napped again, only this time I was naked because it was hot, but he was in his undershorts, so it was OK
11 hand job, but I didn't look, made sure no spunk got on my wedding ring
12 showed him my naked body after showering at his place, which I do all the time, asked for his opinion on areas of my body I can improve on, but it's OK nothing physical happened
13 asked my single toxic friend to "warm him up" back at his place after a night of drinking, then hand off to me because he is reluctant with a married woman
14 BJ or 2 or 6, but I kept my eyes closed and it was mostly hand
15 intercourse in car, we used condoms so it's OK
16 intercourse in my house, but it's OK because kid was at grandma's
17 intercourse in hotel, when my house not available
18 intercourse at the cemetery, when hotels become to expensive and my house not available
19 start a new affair and skip to step 16 same night to try to get rid of the previous one because he got "too obsessed and controlling" with me
20 have a ONS with a smoking hot guy you just meet, skipping to step 17 same night, and inviting the same single toxic friend from step 13 to sneak into your room at 3 am in the same hotel and pull back the sheets on his sleeping naked body for her to see

It only took 12 yrs to get the full truth, but who's counting?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,982 Posts
I was gonna say, gas-lighting for PAs are common. With my situation it was everything from:

1 just friends, no touching at all
2 just hugs, because that's what good friends do
3 touching shoulders, hands
4 rub his face (did this in front of me), he doesn't mind
5 touched mid-section while slow dancing, noticed some wood coming thru, must have been the song (Too close, by NEXT)
6 rubbed his junk thru his pants, he felt her stuff
7 he saw my bra when I was changing, but no big deal, he's like my brother
8 saw him in his undershorts
9 took a nap together, spooned with him
10 napped again, only this time I was naked because it was hot, but he was in his undershorts, so it was OK
11 hand job, but I didn't look, made sure no spunk got on my wedding ring
12 showed him my naked body after showering at his place, which I do all the time, asked for his opinion on areas of my body I can improve on, but it's OK nothing physical happened
13 asked my single toxic friend to "warm him up" back at his place after a night of drinking, then hand off to me because he is reluctant with a married woman
14 BJ or 2 or 6, but I kept my eyes closed and it was mostly hand
15 intercourse in car, we used condoms so it's OK
16 intercourse in my house, but it's OK because kid was at grandma's
17 intercourse in hotel, when my house not available
18 intercourse at the cemetery, when hotels become to expensive and my house not available
19 start a new affair and skip to step 16 same night to try to get rid of the previous one because he got "too obsessed and controlling" with me
20 have a ONS with a smoking hot guy you just meet, skipping to step 17 same night, and inviting the same single toxic friend from step 13 to sneak into your room at 3 am in the same hotel and pull back the sheets on his sleeping naked body for her to see

It only took 12 yrs to get the full truth, but who's counting?
And this was supposedly in an open relationship you declared before you got married and continued years after the marriage. It just goes to show you that even these types of relationships are not immune to the lies and deception that destroy trust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,730 Posts
And this was supposedly in an open relationship you declared before you got married and continued years after the marriage. It just goes to show you that even these types of relationships are not immune to the lies and deception that destroy trust.
Mostly true, it became the equivalent of "open" a few years after the wedding, when she believed that I had abandoned her. Gas-lighting and trickle truth to the extreme until she was sure I wouldn't leave and was comfortable revealing the truth (at least most of it) many years later upon R.

I just wanted to demonstrate an extreme example of gas-lighting and trickle-truth. She told me I was "paranoid" and that it would really upset her if I started playing "detective" and snooping around when I was home on leave because she was an adult and could do whatever (or whoever) she wanted. She also practiced the "hiding in plane sight" by inviting me to events with the OM, telling me we could become friends because we are "so alike".

The answer to the OP's question is: NO, she didn't stop before it became physical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,883 Posts
The twist of situation for me consists of:

My (future) husband while we were dating reconnected with someone he called an ex gf. They decided to take a trip together. He told me about the trip 4 weeks in advance but not all the details.

His so called just a friend ex got pissy with him during these four weeks before their trip so he started turning towards me..... which made her start working harder for him (I've seen the messages).

the weekend before the trip he told me all the details. It was one one one, not a group trip. He told her about me....... but only of late let me know about her.

They did share a hotel room together. He won't confirm whether it was one bed or two beds. But He says that she tried it on him (not the other way around).

Considering what I know of her (from what he has said about her, the messages between them and her representations on social media), I think it's possible that she would see sex as a tool (she was 29 at the time) and COULD have tried it on him to cause him greater confusion as to which one to choose.

What I do know for a fact is that just past midnight their local time on the first day of their trip, he sent me an e-mail claiming that she had a boyfriend (I later confirmed that that was true) and given that, we could all be friends now.

So 5 years on, yes he's doing all the right things that a wife would want her husband to do, but still, we're all human and just a little curious:

1. Who tried what on whom?
2. Was it consummated at all?

Anyone with some wisdom on the matter, direct or tangential is welcome to contribute here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,730 Posts
If it was before the marriage, why do you care about who he hooked up with? Did you honestly tell him about all of your sexual misadventures prior to marriage, including bachelorette party? And he should feel free to tell you the details of whatever happened because you two were not married yet, unless he is afraid his image in your eyes will be degraded because he was banging both of you and lying to both, which guys are known to do.

Usually single people of the opposite sex don't share hotel rooms unless there is attraction and an agenda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,982 Posts
If it was before the marriage, why do you care about who he hooked up with? Did you honestly tell him about all of your sexual misadventures prior to marriage, including bachelorette party? And he should feel free to tell you the details of whatever happened because you two were not married yet, unless he is afraid his image in your eyes will be degraded because he was banging both of you and lying to both, which guys are known to do.
They were dating. Beyond a certain point, sexual exclusivity is somewhat implied. I realize that's not necessarily the case these days, though.

Better question, @NextTimeAround... why didn't you dump his ass? I say that because he sure as f*ck was banging his "ex" in the hotel room.

Usually single people of the opposite sex don't share hotel rooms unless there is attraction and an agenda.
Indeed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,657 Posts
MAJ,

If people are dating exclusively, it certainly is cheating.

And its obvious her fiancee knows they were exclusive too....otherwise, why lie and obfuscate?

If they were in a 'laissez-faire' period of dating prior to commitment when this went down, he would just admit what happened and remind her that they were not exclusively together yet.

Lying and minimizing is always a dead give away that the person doing it knows da*n well that what they did was wrong and scummy.

Honest people with no reason to feel guilty about their actions simply do not act that way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,883 Posts
one thing that I gather about dating, both before my first marriage and the second time around, men do not like the idea that they are being multidated. So I avoided multi dating, but at the same time, it seems that (some) men feel that it's ok to still do sampling while expecting the women to be faithful...... even before exclusivity is even discussed.

Usually single people of the opposite sex don't share hotel rooms unless there is attraction and an agenda.
I think some people, usually women, think that OSFs are 100% interchangeable. Someone still in their 20s, is going to have that campus mentality. And also will think in terms of saving money -- ie, one hotel room is cheaper than 2--

Better question, @NextTimeAround... why didn't you dump his ass? I say that because he sure as f*ck was banging his "ex" in the hotel room.
I thought about dumping him. But he started to do the right things when we were together after that. When I figured out that he was still in touch with her, I told him I would start dating again. And then he cut all ties with her.

But still, I contemplate it as it's human nature. and I bet a lot of other people are dealing with similar situations. They don't know it because they don't know what's going on below the surface. My (future) husband was messy at his place; kept every window on his computer open and gave me the key to his apartment. Had he been more secretive, I would have had to move on.

ie, A guy only makes a date for the same day. Many people will ask, why so persnickety? Are you doing the The Rules on this guy? What's wrong with spontaneity? Were you really so busy that you had to turn down that date? When in fact, this guy was waiting for his No. 1 to make a decision and when she stands him up, he calls his No. 2. It's funny how people are quick to defend the unknown.

I think more often, men have higher standards in how they expected to be treated when dating.
 
41 - 60 of 89 Posts
Top