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It is more the reverse, where I don't want this drug removed from being freely chosen by doctors and patients. In some cases this will be the very best option, while in others not. It isn't that I want everybody to use it, I oppose those who want to remove the choice. They are doing that out of politics and are ignoring the very real science and very real clinical experience.

If my doc thought this was the best treatment, I would choose it.
Since we have medications that have shown to be more efficacious than hydroxycholoroquine, why would you discount the use of those therapies? If we have expanded use of hydroxycholoroquine, then there will not be enough for lupus patients. All the other therapies have but one use right now, this one.

Doctors are following the real science, again you seem to be wedded to this one medication when there are so many other pharamceuticals that have been shown be far more effective. There is an expansive list and yet you want to focus on this one. The one that has been shown through double blinded controlled studies to be only slightly better than a placebo.
 

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@Thor
Doubling down on something like hydroxycholoroquine for the use in COVID-19 is not exactly based on real science; that is being political. This viral pandemic is not a political crisis, it is a health crisis. And, it will be solved by egg-headed scientists.
 

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The problem of Trump's treatment of HCQ is the same as his performance during Hurricane Dorian. If before the trials he'd just mentioned HCQ seemed promising, and left it go at that, no problem. Just as if he'd mistakenly said Alabama was in Dorian's crosshairs and left it go, BFD. But in both cases he was too petty to just be wrong about a simple thing and started wrecking the credibility of essential govt. institutions that people's lives depend upon, b/c to a narcisist those things matter less than saving face.
 

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Jim Jordan is a joke, so is Tucker Carlson. Fauci doesn't comment on something that is matter of constitutional law, therefore he is a fraud......if he had said something he would get blasted for speaking out on things he is not an expert on.
He doesn’t follow his very own recommendations though.
 

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Since we have medications that have shown to be more efficacious than hydroxycholoroquine, why would you discount the use of those therapies? If we have expanded use of hydroxycholoroquine, then there will not be enough for lupus patients. All the other therapies have but one use right now, this one.

Doctors are following the real science, again you seem to be wedded to this one medication when there are so many other pharamceuticals that have been shown be far more effective. There is an expansive list and yet you want to focus on this one. The one that has been shown through double blinded controlled studies to be only slightly better than a placebo.
Where have I ever discounted the use of other therapies?

This is not an either-or scenario despite people trying to make it such.

Doctors, some doctors, are indeed following science. Many docs are following their own experiences and knowledge in the absence of substantial science. There has been a lot of muddying of the waters with various studies for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the very short time span we've been in this.

However, docs are still very limited by what they are permitted to do, and docs which go against the approved narrative are being fired and having their licenses threatened. This is not freedom where docs get to make the best decisions based on their expertise and their understanding of current information.
 

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@Thor
Doubling down on something like hydroxycholoroquine for the use in COVID-19 is not exactly based on real science; that is being political. This viral pandemic is not a political crisis, it is a health crisis. And, it will be solved by egg-headed scientists.
Doubling down is political?

Let's get the timeline straight. First there were studies involving HCQ years ago, and published studies including one by the very esteemed Dr. Fauci which showed efficacy amongst similar viruses. As Covid was emerging there were some promising early results involving HCQ. The media reported the good news, preliminary news, that HCQ might have promise. Trump mentions this. Instantly the left goes scorched earth against HCQ. Media and politicians and the faithful all immediately start trashing HCQ. Docs who come out in favor of it are destroyed publicly. More studies come out, some again showing good efficacy. Docs have good results in their own practices using it. The left continues to vilify the use of HCQ. They say it causes all kinds of horrible potentially lethal side effects, neglecting of course to put that in perspective.

The left politicized it, unless by definition it is politicization when Trump mentions something.
 

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The president saying something with no studies is a game changer on live television is politicizing it.

Keeping the flame alive after multiple studies have shown no benefit is politicizing it.

Saying that people only want it to fail because Trump liked it, and not because all of the evidence supports not using it, is politicizing it.
 

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Doubling down is political?

Let's get the timeline straight. First there were studies involving HCQ years ago, and published studies including one by the very esteemed Dr. Fauci which showed efficacy amongst similar viruses. As Covid was emerging there were some promising early results involving HCQ. The media reported the good news, preliminary news, that HCQ might have promise. Trump mentions this. Instantly the left goes scorched earth against HCQ. Media and politicians and the faithful all immediately start trashing HCQ. Docs who come out in favor of it are destroyed publicly. More studies come out, some again showing good efficacy. Docs have good results in their own practices using it. The left continues to vilify the use of HCQ. They say it causes all kinds of horrible potentially lethal side effects, neglecting of course to put that in perspective.

The left politicized it, unless by definition it is politicization when Trump mentions something.
This is a novel virus and we have learned a lot since it came to our shores and we still have more to learn. In science you have to be willing to understand that in the beginning one may not have all the answers. Over time as we learn more we apply what we have learned.

So, while there were many recommendations in the beginning, we don’t hold fast to those as we learn more about this viral pandemic and the therapies we apply.

I have posted enough papers to show you that hydroxycholoroquine has no efficacy as it relates to this infectious disease. Why would you propose asking your physician to use it when there are other ways (better) to deal with it. Let the physician do his or her own job based on best practices. Best practices currently do not include the use of hydroxycholoroquine, period.
 

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Where have I ever discounted the use of other therapies?

This is not an either-or scenario despite people trying to make it such.

Doctors, some doctors, are indeed following science. Many docs are following their own experiences and knowledge in the absence of substantial science. There has been a lot of muddying of the waters with various studies for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the very short time span we've been in this.

However, docs are still very limited by what they are permitted to do, and docs which go against the approved narrative are being fired and having their licenses threatened. This is not freedom where docs get to make the best decisions based on their expertise and their understanding of current information.
You are stuck on this one drug that has been shown more than once to show no better than a placebo in its effects on treating someone with COVID-19.

Yes, doctors follow science and the current science shows no efficacy for treating COVID-19 patients with hydroxycholoroquine, period.
 

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You are stuck on this one drug that has been shown more than once to show no better than a placebo in its effects on treating someone with COVID-19.

Yes, doctors follow science and the current science shows no efficacy for treating COVID-19 patients with hydroxycholoroquine, period.
Yet there are multiple studies from all around the world showing HCQ is effective, especially used in conjunction with other meds and Zn. The science is not settled, not by far.

To reject this as unworthy of consideration based on existing studies or, most especially, based on the fact Trump mentioned it, is lacking in open mindedness.
 

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Why would you propose asking your physician to use it when there are other ways (better) to deal with it. Let the physician do his or her own job based on best practices. Best practices currently do not include the use of hydroxycholoroquine, period.
Have I proposed people ask their doctor to prescribe it? Have I suggested people go against the advice of their medical providers?

Yes, let the ****ing physicians do their job based on their expertise as physicians! So, do you endorse the public excoriation of doctors who speak up about their professional experience using HCQ with Covid? Do you endorse the government telling docs they cannot use it? Do you endorse pharmacists requiring docs to tell them why they are prescribing it? Do you endorse state licensing boards revoking licenses of docs who prescribe it?

Are you claiming the science is now settled absolutely? Are you claiming there are other regimens proven beyond doubt to be better in all clinical instances than HCQ?
 

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Doubling down is political?

Let's get the timeline straight. First there were studies involving HCQ years ago, and published studies including one by the very esteemed Dr. Fauci which showed efficacy amongst similar viruses. As Covid was emerging there were some promising early results involving HCQ. The media reported the good news, preliminary news, that HCQ might have promise. Trump mentions this. Instantly the left goes scorched earth against HCQ. Media and politicians and the faithful all immediately start trashing HCQ. Docs who come out in favor of it are destroyed publicly. More studies come out, some again showing good efficacy. Docs have good results in their own practices using it. The left continues to vilify the use of HCQ. They say it causes all kinds of horrible potentially lethal side effects, neglecting of course to put that in perspective.

The left politicized it, unless by definition it is politicization when Trump mentions something.
So the way to get the timeline straight is for all of us to accept your vague characterization of what happened without any source of any kind.

Can you provide links to what you consider unfair reporting, hopefully dated?

Here is a timeline article.
 

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Have I proposed people ask their doctor to prescribe it? Have I suggested people go against the advice of their medical providers?

Yes, let the ****ing physicians do their job based on their expertise as physicians! So, do you endorse the public excoriation of doctors who speak up about their professional experience using HCQ with Covid? Do you endorse the government telling docs they cannot use it? Do you endorse pharmacists requiring docs to tell them why they are prescribing it? Do you endorse state licensing boards revoking licenses of docs who prescribe it?

Are you claiming the science is now settled absolutely? Are you claiming there are other regimens proven beyond doubt to be better in all clinical instances than HCQ?
Based on the science, which you keeping quoting, a physician is not likely to prescribe hydroxycholoroquine for a COVID-19 patient. That is the best practice at the moment
 

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Yet there are multiple studies from all around the world showing HCQ is effective, especially used in conjunction with other meds and Zn. The science is not settled, not by far.

To reject this as unworthy of consideration based on existing studies or, most especially, based on the fact Trump mentioned it, is lacking in open mindedness.
Most of the studies you are referring to are retrospective studies. These are great starting points, but are not reliable as studies that use double blind controlled clinical trials. And of those types of studies it has been shown to only be slightly better than a placebo.
 

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Most of the studies you are referring to are retrospective studies. These are great starting points, but are not reliable as studies that use double blind controlled clinical trials. And of those types of studies it has been shown to only be slightly better than a placebo.
Still don’t care to share what the placebo was and the dosages? Haha, that’s some funny stuff right there.
 
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