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Please don't take the red pill....

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309K views 4.1K replies 90 participants last post by  Deejo  
#1 ·
Ok Dogbert, I'm going to post a few specific things from MMSL...but please realize that is just one tiny bit of the red pill crap, which is what I'm really against. Athol Kay is just one of many people who write books and blogs about it.

You asked for specific examples from MMSL though, so that's what I will start out with here.

From the book....A section in which Athol explains to us that all women are cheating wh*res, it's biology after all:

Because ovulation is concealed and somewhat random, it forces a male partner to hang around to ensure paternity. Her sexual interest might stop and start a little during her cycle and the male has to be constantly available to have sex. Any one sex act might be the one that gets her pregnant, so it creates the need for a primary partner to pay her attention and create a serious committed relationship. This is quite excellent for holding a regular male partner around to help raise children.

The other reason ovulation is concealed is so she can cheat. There’s no possible way a male can watch his primary female partner 24/7. Everyone falls asleep or needs to use the bathroom eventually, so despite a very high level of attention a husband gives a wife, she will always have some wiggle room to disappear briefly for something quick and dirty. Because ovulation is concealed, there’s no sure way for the husband to know whether or not she was perfectly faithful even when he was watching her like a hawk.

The evolutionary purpose of this cheating is that while her primary male partner may be a good provider and pleasant companion, another male could offer her significantly better genes to impregnate her with. It’s a try and have your cake and eat it too proposition. A woman may have sex with her partner thousands of times and with a lover maybe only a handful of times, but if any of that handful of times results in a pregnancy to the lover, it’s an extremely significant outcome.

The link between ovulation and cheating is highly significant in that when she ovulates, a woman experiences a large spike in her sexual interest. Ovulation lasts only a few days, usually no more than two, but it is the highest point of sexual interest for a woman. Even quite low sex drive women can perk up and play for sexual attention during ovulation. It’s when a woman is most likely to cheat on a partner, she is most likely to orgasm and in plain simple terms when she likes sex the roughest. If you pay consistent attention to a woman, it’s usually easy enough to discover when she is ovulating. There won’t be a blatant change to her dress code from “demure angel” twenty-six days a month to “sl*tzilla” for two days a month.

She’ll generally stick to her basic appearance, but she just ups the ante slightly. Some more exposed skin, a little more attention to her makeup, a little more jewelry. Her interactions with men will be a little more attentive and flirty, with something like extra touching on the arm, eye contract and smiling.

(end quote)

This is just mean spirited and encourages men to see women as cheating wh*res. All of them. He's not talking about any particular woman he's talking about ALL of us. What kind of relationship book is built on this type of premise?

The woman's motive, in MMSL, is always to keep a beta male around to raise kids, and to have alphas on the side to cheat with. There's literally nothing in the book about love of any kind. It is all about women screwing men over in one way or another.

Suggesting that a woman likes sex the roughest during ovulation is just totally irresponsible...since some women never like rough sex and others like it rough all the time.

But keep in mind...MMSL has us all in neatly squared off boxes. All women are the same kind of cheating wh*re, with no variation.
 
#2 ·
Here is another quotes that says about the same thing......

"It is extremely politically incorrect to say so, but all women have a component of slvt in their makeup. The trick is not to fear it, seek to sanction it, or flee it, but to adapt to the presence of the slvt in your woman and harness it for your mutual enjoyment. But if you don't' pay her active attention to account for her slvt influence, you might find that it gets up to all sorts of mischief."
 
#3 ·
Also from the book....in a section in which MMSL explains what sperm warfare is...I picked up in the middle of it though:

On a biological level, the Male Body Agenda assumes that the female he is having sex with will be unfaithful. By constantly seeking to top off a female’s reproductive tract with sperm, he assures himself a standing army inside her ready to repel another male’s sperm if she cheats on him. A wife can avoid having a standing army of her husband’s sperm inside her by simply denying him sex. A couple can have fairly frequent sex, but if she avoids sex with him, or just gives him handjobs or blowjobs in the three or four days before she ovulates, the husband is rendered defenseless from a sperm warfare perspective if she meets a lover for sex. There’s no standing army of the husband’s sperm to fight off the lover’s sperm.


Importantly because the lover is not likely to have many attempts at sex with the wife, his ejaculation will be extremely large and flood her vagina. The husband is at a decided disadvantage.

It’s important to wave the flag again that this sort of planned deceit on the wife’s part can happen completely unconsciously; the Rationalization Hamster can likely supply several excellent reasons as to why she avoided her husband’s semen in her vagina for a few days before she ovulated. Plus obviously the hook-up with the lover was just an appalling lapse of character. She’s not that kind of girl. In fact she’s just realized from that hook-up how very empty sex without love can be and she now knows that deep down she really loves her husband and wants to make it work with him. So perhaps some good came of the whole thing. The Rationalization Hamster is holding off on telling her she’s pregnant for a bit…missed periods sometimes just happen you know. (See how the Rationalization Hamster works?)

Sperm warfare also explains why if a husband is denied regular sex with his wife, he typically becomes fixated on the lack of sex with her to the exclusion of every other issue in the relationship. After five days of no vaginal sex, all his sperm inside her are either dead or have dripped out of her. In a “get her pregnant” sense it’s like he’s never had sex with her. He wants her topped off; instead she’s completely empty of his sperm. She is therefore providing him with a very strong expression of disinterest in him. She may say that she loves him, but he will typically experience her actions as a deeply concerning rejection.

As a variant on this, if a wife has sex with a lover, she will often return to her husband and immediately seek sex from him as well. The husband may be quite surprised by her initiation of sex and her highly sexual intensity. What is happening is her Body Agenda is seeking to actively play the sperm armies against each other in a survival of the fittest game to find the winning sperm. If the husband is unaware of the lover, he likely just experiences this as a wonderfully intense sex experience that likely extends over several sessions. For those involved in the Hotwife or Cuckolding lifestyles, this return of the wife after being with a lover for immediate sex with the husband is a point of purposeful enjoyment.

(end quote)

I don't have any problem with the concept of sperm warfare, but again, why is everything through a hateful lens here? On the one hand he says it is subconscious processes at work, and on the other hand he is constantly point out what wh*res women are and how every single one of us is cheating.

This is a book meant to develop a good relationship with your wife? I have heard many times that this book is good for guys who have been cheated on because it stirs up their sense of fighting for their marriage. But dang....c'mon if we're all just going to be hateful toward each other, let's just give up. :(
 
#25 ·
Importantly because the lover is not likely to have many attempts at sex with the wife, his ejaculation will be extremely large and flood her vagina. The husband is at a decided disadvantage.
There is an interesting contradiction here as well. Elsewhere, it is said that women will only sleep with 20% of men, and that "alphas" get all the action. Yet this alpha that the wife is supposedly cheating with doesn't have enough access to sex to deplete his sperm? He's somehow saving it for this wife?

The logic is so skewed. On one hand women will only sleep with 20% and will deprive their beta husbands. But somehow the alpha also has so much sperm because of less opportunity, while the husband has all the access. :scratchhead:

Makes no sense at all.
 
#4 ·
Here is a part in the book where the basis of negging is explained:

One of the key signals that a male has social dominance is his confidence, thus women are highly attracted to displays of confidence in men. A basic confidence display is the willingness to approach women, especially highly attractive women, and display calmness in their presence.

That calmness can be successfully extended to expressions of mild disinterest in the woman, implying that he has become used to being with even more beautiful women than she – which would imply that he had a very high value as a man, which then triggers her interest in him. A typical fan meeting a celebrity in person usually becomes highly excited and can become quite giddy and silly, while the celebrity is usually much less excited and “cool.”

That coolness is a statement of higher social value as it says “I’m not excited to be meeting you.” Cool men have always created attraction in women. The underlying message is that “I am not going to react to you.” The other side to social confidence and dominance is when the confident male creates situations where the female is forced to react to him. In other words, “I am not going to react to you, but you will react to me.” The simplest way of achieving that is by leading a conversation that delights the female and draws her attention to him. The cornerstone of leading these conversations is a combination of being “****y and funny” where the male playfully abuses his position of social dominance and gets away with being a “naughty boy”.

(end quote)

Notice that the "highly attractive" woman needs to be cut down and put into her place, by the man. He needs to prove he won't even react to her....why?

Why the hostility about it? The confident and fun guys I've known weren't also hostile toward women, you know? I don't get the hostility.

And why does confidence necessarily have to do with social dominance? I've known plenty of guys who are confident but who don't have any social dominance at all. We can have confidence without having to dominate anyone.
 
#5 ·
Here is one that just creeps me out...

(8.8) Isolation – Leverage Her Isolation Anxiety with Surprise

Moving to a second location works to make alone time more exciting to her, but that can be made even more exciting by adding the element of surprise and triggering momentary Isolation Anxiety. You might have gone somewhere together to do something, but the surprise little side trip on the way back, where you just turn the wheel of the car and take her somewhere, is exciting. It works because it’s like a playful and safe version of her getting carjacked and taken somewhere against her will. *

Even though your wife is with you and trusts you, she will experience a few seconds of Isolation Anxiety as you start taking her somewhere unexpected without asking. This triggers her Body Agenda to make an instant decision about either risking a physical fight with you that is likely hopeless or submitting to your intentions without resistance. Usually her Body Agenda takes the safe option and votes for submission, which frames you as dominant. Having created a dominant moment, that sparks a dopamine reaction in her and she will feel greater attraction to you and a little flush of excitement. *

If you went to the mall to do Christmas shopping together, it’s the unannounced detour on the way back to the secret pastry and coffee shop that engages her with you. Of course she’ll just think it’s romantic, exciting and non-boring, but that’s just the dopamine doing its job. *

Another way of doing this is starting at home and simply telling her to get in the car with you in ten minutes. Then just drive her to dinner out somewhere random. Don’t tell her where you are driving to; just arrive. She might complain loudly the first couple of times, but that just means she’s emotionally engaged with you.

Kay, Athol (2011-04-09). The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 (p. 107).
 
#36 ·
This one totally turns me on but I think the term "Isolation Anxiety" is waaaaay off base and completely misses the connection between low levels of anxiety and high levels of excitement.

For instance in gymnastics and related sports, the athlete feels quite a bit of anxiety doing a trick but the anxiety is felt as excitement first, fear second. I remember many times of focused intent to try something new, feeling anxiety and squashing it down, then doing the trick. But afterwards the physical manifestation OS anxiety become quite apparent. Shaking, both internal shakiness and external shaking are common. However it is not felt as a negative but an adrenalin pumping excitement.

This isolation anxiety is a wrong term because it's not ISOLATION but the newness, unexpected, surprise, unique, out of the ordinary, the unpredictable of the situation that would cause the spike in adrenalin and dopamine.

Using the term ISOLATION brings a distinct flavor of predatorish and rapey point of view.
 
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#6 ·
A blog post:

Unleashing Your Inner ***** | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life

A particularly nasty quote from it:

An old saying that I just made up is “Scratch a lady, find a *****.”

Most married women try pretty hard to be good girls and squish down the simmering primal desires inside of them. In reality, about 60% of the time the Rationalization Hamster is doing things like convincing them to not put a toddler down for a nap by way of a choke hold. 30% of the time it’s trying to figure out what’s for dinner. Only 10% of the time is it trying to figure out how to get some other dude’s semen without being caught by their husband. So relax, it’s really not as bad as you think.

(end quote)

I don't know why this kind of thing is funny at all. Not when combined with the whole big picture message. And of course again, we're all cheating wh*res.
 
#7 ·
When I was in college, I had a date who did this. I thought that we were going to the movies. He just turned in the wrong direction. I asked him where he was taking me and he would not tell me. It turned out that he was taking me to his house, where he lived with his mother to show me something that he had bought that was very cool... according to him.

He scared the living daylights out of me. I was sure that I was in for something horrific.

Last time I went out with him. The advice in the above quote is bad advice. It's creepy. Basically it's saying to just scare her for a bit and make her think that the guy is going to do something really bad to her. Wow.. just wow.
 
#8 ·
Another blog post:

Dreadcake Game or Baked Goods Seduction | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life

More nastiness:

Something from the dark side to induce a little dread…

Anytime: Buy an odd plate at the dollar store or consignment shop.

Sunday: Find and visit a church bake sale, or fair, that has homemade baked goods.

Monday: Place “partially consumed” baked goods on the odd plate, cover with cling-wrap.

Come home from work with plate of baked goods.

Say that the new girl at work gave them to you. Well she offered it to everyone, but she gave the plate to you. She’s a temp or something. Cute.

Act like you have no idea that a woman giving you baked goods is an Indicator of Interest.

Watch your wife’s Rationalization Hamster become fully nourished on the baked goods…

Your Defense: It’s just freaking BANANA BREAD! What’s wrong with you?

(end quote)

This is how he recommends treating your wife. This isn't about dating, it is about marriage. Wtf?
 
#19 ·
Another blog post:

Dreadcake Game or Baked Goods Seduction | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life

More nastiness:

Something from the dark side to induce a little dread…

Anytime: Buy an odd plate at the dollar store or consignment shop.

Sunday: Find and visit a church bake sale, or fair, that has homemade baked goods.

Monday: Place “partially consumed” baked goods on the odd plate, cover with cling-wrap.

Come home from work with plate of baked goods.

Say that the new girl at work gave them to you. Well she offered it to everyone, but she gave the plate to you. She’s a temp or something. Cute.
Only a totally nerdy, sexually frustrated, angry, creepy, dude would come up with something this bizarre. I think he hates beautiful women.
 
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#9 ·
Another blog post:

Fat Wives Demanding Unconditional Love | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life

Quote from within:

Let’s not beat around the bush, female obesity is a major boner killer to the majority of men. Men being married to someone they have no sexual interest in, amounts to living in a very private hell. I’ve had a few emails recently about husbands trying to get their wives to lose weight. Mostly they are doing the right thing and making sure their Sex Rank is as high as they can get it.

One husband told me he felt he was in great shape, a good job, helps with the house and kids. Pegged himself as an 8. His wife he thought was a 5 due mainly to her ballooning figure. When he asked her to lose the weight she was enraged and cut him off from sex for a year. He was very frustrated and angry about it, but he stuck around and tolerated it.

So if you think you’re an 8, and your 5 wife cuts you off from sex for a year, and you tolerate it, you are in fact acting like a 4.

It’s tempting to frame the wife as delusional and thinking she really is an 8 or 9 herself, but deep down she knows she really isn’t hot. She knows she’s a 5, but is bluffing that she is an 8.

(end quote)

And the offensiveness goes on from there.

All this stuff about what number people are, it is just so sad and weird. It dehumanizes us all and MMSL seeks to be able to label everyone in that way, based on some strange freaking math that is different for men than it is for women.

How can this immature view of life be behind a relationship system?

And I'm not even addressing the obesity issue here, I'm just talking about how he dehumanizes ALL of us in these rants.
 
#10 ·
Blog post:

What Have You Learned From The Opposite Sex? | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life

Here's some of the lovely things from this post:

Women are OK with being checked out, as long as it’s on the up and up.

Women’s sex drive is highly response-driven, unlike men’s who is always on. At least in my case.

Having to be in control is a burden many women chase, but don’t want.

99% of stuff women say they want is wrong, and this is why guys think they’re so hard to figure out.

Women lie to themselves, and each other, as a matter of course. This, in fact, is how modern society was formed.

Many women are so afraid of how they are perceived by other women, that they’d rather be unhappy all their lives than be thought negatively of.

Some women try so hard to be men, that they succeed. And hate themselves for it.

(end quote)

That was written by one of the forum members at MMSL, and Athol quoted it in this blog post. Nice, huh? Women are of course liars as well as wh*res, and we also do not know what we even want....we're just adrift trying to figure out how to make people like us, with lies apparently.

And women's sex drive being response driven....sigh....yes for a lot of women it is, but not for all women, and spreading that stereo type is just silly and untrue.

Of course, we must TRY to become MEN. We can't possibly be happy just being women. :rolleyes:
 
#12 ·
Yep, totally hateful misogynistic writings by Athol. None of what has been quoted above surprises me in the least. A couple of years ago I read practically every blog post of his and it was the same horrible spew. The way he puts women down is shameful.

His 'advice' is shrouded in hatred and that is one of the problems I have with him. It's about putting women down in order to feel better about yourself. What he is advocating is being abusive and a bully in order to get laid. It's for the weak minded man who suffers from low self esteem. It's a site for folks who don't know the first thing about common decency.

I don't like being 'gamed' and 'played' by the man I love all while he is snickering to himself about his abusive tactics. It seems like a very low way to go about improving one's relationship and getting more sex.
 
#13 ·
Seriously revolting attitudes towards women, relationships and power there.

Water finds it's own level, meaning that generally if you are going to use such revolting tactics to get a woman then you are going to attract a woman that is equally as unhinged as you are. Who would want to live a life like that? Not emotionally healthy and balanced folk that is for sure.
 
#16 ·
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Wow!

Hi Faithful Wife,

Until visiting this website I had never heard of Athol Kay or his publications. That said, I appreciate you and EleGirl posting some of what he peddles. After reading it I feel like I need a wash.

If one thinks men ought to base their marital relationship on manipulating and lying to their spouses in order to enjoy a successful marriage, they are barking up the wrong tree.

Seriously he reads like women are the enemy.

I think I'll keep doing what I am doing, lest I follow Kay's advice and end the terrific sex life I enjoy.
 
#18 ·
The evolutionary purpose of this cheating is that while her primary male partner may be a good provider and pleasant companion, another male could offer her significantly better genes to impregnate her with. It’s a try and have your cake and eat it too proposition. A woman may have sex with her partner thousands of times and with a lover maybe only a handful of times, but if any of that handful of times results in a pregnancy to the lover, it’s an extremely significant outcome.

The link between ovulation and cheating is highly significant in that when she ovulates, a woman experiences a large spike in her sexual interest. Ovulation lasts only a few days, usually no more than two, but it is the highest point of sexual interest for a woman. Even quite low sex drive women can perk up and play for sexual attention during ovulation. It’s when a woman is most likely to cheat on a partner, she is most likely to orgasm and in plain simple terms when she likes sex the roughest. If you pay consistent attention to a woman, it’s usually easy enough to discover when she is ovulating. There won’t be a blatant change to her dress code from “demure angel” twenty-six days a month to “sl*tzilla” for two days a month.
OK. I hate to admit this but in this section he does have a point. I'm 46 but still get my period like clockwork and I have an intuitive sense when I'm ovulating. It's during that time when my interest in contacting the OM (who is ten years younger than me and a very hot bad boy type) spikes. My sexual appetite increases and my body is giving me cues my mind needs to control.

However, this doesn't dismiss the other hateful crap that he perpetuates.
 
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#79 ·
Brigit...I think it is better if we women talk about our feelings around ovulation than letting a man try to describe us as cheating wh*res.

I know exactly when I'm ovulating, because I'm horny as hell, too.

However, in general terms, there's no time some men are not horny as hell.

Sex drive is what it is. There's no reason to try to paint us as wicked cheating wh*res when men are subject to the same strong sex drive most of the month...and I don't agree men should be painted as cheating wh*res either.

The only way we are going to see equality in these issues is if we can all simply speak openly and truthfully about our glorious sex drives and stop making it about cheating and meanness.
 
#20 ·
And on my thread.. >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera.../262786-sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare-whats-your-take-your-experience.html

you were all trying to convince ME just HOW non-monogamous WOMEN REALLY ARE.. just seems to me Athol is agreeing with you all.. it's something to be aware of.. Taken from the link you provided FW >> " Women want sex just as much as men do, and this drive is "not, for the most part, sparked or sustained by emotional intimacy and safety." When it comes to the craving for sexual variety, the research Bergner assembles suggests that women may be "even less well-suited for monogamy than men."

Look Men & women both cheat at alarming rates.. anyone want to disagree ??...

If he is saying "ALL" ... (well none of us should go there.. we're asking to be corrected)..... I know I sure don't fit into "all" when men speak of women, none of us do...

I have not taken the time to read as much as others have here of his stuff.. (just some of his book pretty much)...and I appreciated his breakdown on the ALPHA / BETA years ago on a thread here, I much prefer it over how the Pick up Artist sites damn everything Beta.
 
#27 ·
And on my thread.. >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera.../262786-sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare-whats-your-take-your-experience.html

you were all trying to convince ME just HOW non-monogamous WOMEN REALLY ARE.. just seems to me Athol is agreeing with you all.. it's something to be aware of.. Taken from the link you provided FW >> " Women want sex just as much as men do, and this drive is "not, for the most part, sparked or sustained by emotional intimacy and safety." When it comes to the craving for sexual variety, the research Bergner assembles suggests that women may be "even less well-suited for monogamy than men."
Comparing non-monogamy to infidelity is like comparing apples to oranges. Non-monogamy is a relationship designation: forming relationship/love bonds with more than one person. Infidelity involves lies, deceit, and treachery, all of which are wrong and hurtful to others. There can be infidelity in a non-monogamous relationship but choosing to enter into a non-monogamous relationship does not make it cheating.

What Athol is implying in his book is that ALL women are natural born cheaters.... not non-monogamous. He states clearly in his book that we're born with a biologically programmed need to cheat in order to obtain the best Alpha genes for our babies. Meanwhile, he also claims that we are born with an instinctual-like need to find a Beta male we can cuckold into raising our alpha babies. It's the equivalent of me saying that ALL men are natural born cheaters because they have a biological need to "spread his seed'. This is INSANE logic. We are much more evolved than our caveman predecessors.
 
#21 ·
My thoughts on Athol's works aren't as heated as some here, mainly because I do believe there are kernels of truth here and there.

Just to add to the discussion, there is also the RedpillWomens and the MarriedRedPill "movements," each with a different take and application of red pill theory. Read the sidebars for more info.

http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen
http://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill

/opens can of worms and runs
 
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#22 ·
My thoughts on Athol's works aren't as heated as some here, mainly because I do believe there are kernels of truth here and there.

Just to add to the discussion, there is also the RedpillWomens and the MarriedRedPill "movements," each with a different take and application of red pill theory. Read the sidebars for more info.

Red Pill Women
Married Red Pill: Sexual strategy for men in marriage or long term relationships

/opens can of worms and runs

yeah, I agree. I'm not going to forget my husband's "special friendship" with a woman who was an absolute b!tch.
I had to get involved to get him to get rid of her.

there is something here to learn.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Liking sex, wanting sex as much as men to, etc to me is a lot different than needing to be watched 24/7 because I might sneak out while my man is on the toilet to go cheat, or needing to be filled up with sperm daily just so I don't get some on my way home.
Filled with sperm or not, I think these women are vulnerable for a KISA to come swoop them off their feet if they are shown even a little compassion and caring. So from a basic stop cheating POV, it fails.

ETA- A strong, confident man doesn't need to use these games. All this would do is make a man look weaker to me so from a basic "be a man" POV is fails there too.

I much prefer books that focus on meeting each other's emotional needs and building a happy and loving relationship. Still nothing will work 100% of the time and you have to pick and change to suit your situation best but any time you have the choice to build a loving relationship or using manipulation and fear to keep her stuck with you... I think it's obvious which is better.

It scares me that so many men have fallen for this kind of BS but I agree that it would only work on a woman who had low self-esteem and/or weren't able to immediatly leave the relationship because of money or kids.


There's a review on Amazon from one of his other books that I think is really good


The only good part of the book is the free "Look Inside" from Amazon. (Yeah, that part IS good!)

The book isn't even really a book- it's a self-published collection of blogs written by a self-described sex-addict with ADHD (unmedicated).

It's like reading the story of a drug addict telling you how to get high. The guy has two daughters so you feel bad for them to have to live in that household. And you feel bad for his wife. Example: He threatened to cheat on his wife if she didn't do more for him (she was already having sex with him daily and trying to please him in general). He admits she was being more than fair in the relationship but that he used the cheating threat as "leverage" for what he wanted from her. Instead of divorcing him however, she agreed to let go of her few remaining boundaries (undisclosed), even allowing him to rape her- he calls her his personal f (a word amazon won't let me use) toy.

Here's a quote from the book: "About a year ago I tried another experiment. I decided to not just have rough sex with her, but to do it as hard as I could...without regard for her enjoyment or caring about her at all. I mean really, really rag doll f her like she was rented." (pg. 226, the left-out word is intentional for Amazon purposes)

The book was truly nauseating, so much so that it still bugs me days later.

Anyhow, is that the kind of tip you really want to PAY for? Is that the kind of thing you really think will improve your marriage? (According to the FEMALE reviewers of Mr. Kay's books, his tips almost led their marriages to divorce.)

Mr. Kay claims your wife wants you to be an a hole. He says that raping his wife keeps her from cheating on him. HUH? How does THAT work? Any HEALTHY, self-respecting woman would simply leave Kay. Unfortunately, "like attracts like" and Kay's wife isn't healthy (more on that below).

Yeah, women like strong, confident men! Women like when men have their act together and have goals and focus in life, when they don't let themselves get steamrolled by life or the relationship, and when they can be dominatingly playful (a single smack on the rear, a confident kiss...) Heck, who DOESN'T like a self-respecting mate? (Ever date a girl who lets you treat her like a doormat? Did you lose respect for her? She was probably a nice girl so it's kinda sad, right? But it's just a universal truth- if you don't respect yourself no one else is going to respect you, either.)

Plus, women are drawn to testosterone. Women want to feel that they are with a man who is strong enough to protect them in the wilderness. It's true that a little power play now and again can attract a woman to her man. But there's a big difference between attracting your wife with some playful dominance and abusing her because of your selfish (or mentally ill) obsessiveness.

Kay hasn't figured out the difference. He has the whole issue confused in his book because he is both psychiatrically and psychologically unwell and, like most addicts, would rather maintain his addiction than face it . He's the user, his wife is the co-dependent. If she wasn't a conservative Christian with two children in the house, NO sexual experience aside from her "husband", (and most likely a background of childhood abuse/neglect/family addiction/etc.), she probably would have left him long ago. She still might leave him one day once she realizes that she has the right to be treated like a human being- and no one will be surprised, not even him. As Mr. Kay says of his relationship with his wife in the book's conclusion, "They have a carefully balanced relationship where Athol dreams up all kinds of weird stuff, and Jennifer doesn't leave him." (pg. 272) Not yet anyhow.
 
#24 ·
Suggesting that a woman likes sex the roughest during ovulation is just totally irresponsible...since some women never like rough sex and others like it rough all the time.
Also irresponsible is the idea that it is during ovulation that women will orgasm.

No, it's during *good* sex that women will orgasm.
 
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#34 ·
and I know you disagree with the leadership talk, FW, but I believe that men have a HUGE amount of untapped power to influence their M for better which is sort of the message here:
The Eternal Captain Rule | Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life
I dunno, Blonde. I read something like this:

I’m not saying that all women are jaded, gold-digging *****s waiting for the first moment of weakness to jump ship to a larger ****… it’s not THAT bad (he said softly massaging his right temple for effect, thinking that the tiger metaphor was perhaps poorly chosen)… but every woman expects you can hold your **** together and be a productive spouse on a routine basis.

The old line is that “women don’t want to win, they want a winner.”
And it basically sounds like women don't bring anything to a relationship, that it's all about riding on the guys coat-tails and then ditching him if they find a better deal.

I mean, sure, most women do want a guy who is mature, responsible, basically has his sh1t together. But most women also bring a great deal to a relationship, and are perfectly willing and able to step up when the going gets tough. Often moreso.

This "women are hypergamous" line basically encourages men to ignore the influence of their wives, and basically devalue her contributions and responsibilities. Which I think is a huge mistake.
 
#26 ·
Not all women fit the mmslp

but a fair bit do!

to paint with a broad brush either way is wrong. got to look at the individual situation and determine if your with a woman who falls into the category of being a cheater or not. there are tell tail signs for both genders.

eyes wide open!
 
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#39 ·
Let's see... about 10% of men are violent and even criminals. So it' fair to say that a fair bit are. So we can write a book that characterizes all men as violence criminals. Is that how it works?

MMSLP is based on the premise that all women are basically closet slvts and there will cheat if her husband does not keep her full of his sperm and keep a short leash on her.

More men cheat than women do. So I guess all mean are sneaky, lying cheaters. Makes sense, no?

If making broad sweeps are ok in MMSLP then I guess they are ok everywhere.
 
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#41 ·
The quotes that I posted and some of FW's are right out of his book.. the one that is constantly suggested to men on TAM as the bible for improving themselves and learning about women.

Plus those blogs that FW quoted are on his website, also suggested many times a day to men here on TAM.

So it really does not matter if the man's thoughts changes. They are out there being pushed as the end all for men.
 
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