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Discussion Starter · #302 ·
Thanks for the candid answer. You have adult children, right? Would you ever consider letting them know about this? You spin it as, lets say at least 90% positive for you and your wife. I know most parents actually suck at talking about sex and relationships with their kids. I struggle, but do it because I want them to know what I think is right. At the same time my wife and I have demonstrated it to them. Even talked about about how you should always remain faithful to your partner. What have you taught your kids about this aspect of life?
Let me answer bluntly what I assume your really asking me. If they come to me and ask me what I think about swinging, I will tell them what I think of it. the good, the bad, the ugly.

will we ever tell them specifics of what our sex practices and activities are? No of course not just like I assume you won't tell your kids that you like your ass tickled with a feather while you suck your wife's toes. It's simply none of their business and they don't need to know and disclosure of our sex practices will be of no benefit to them or to us.

Since they were little I have had a very matter-of-fact, this-is-how-the-world-IS approach with them vs how the world should necessarily be. I don't speak as graphically with them as I do here by my tone is much the same.

They know that alternative lifestyles exist in the world and they know that those lifestyles will be more prevalent and visable in their lives than what they were in ours.

Kids today are much more aware and accepting of alternative lifestyles than we ever were.

Out of our kid's peer groups, we are one of the few couples that are actually still married and still together. Dang near all of their other peers have either divorced parents or never-married parents or two moms or two dads or whatever.

I hate to sound dismissive, but we are actually some of the most conservative and traditional parents and families in our community.

My wife is a little more traditional and church oriented that I am. but we have both pretty much raised them to be their own person and live their own lives and relationships. We've raised them to be safe, responsible, respectful, compassionate and to not be dumb. We've raised them to stand up for themselves and advocate for their own best interests and not be pushed around or manipulated.

We've also not tried to force them into any particular pidgeon hole. We have not demanded purety rings or swear virginity until married or any of that bullcrap.

We've acknowledged that their generation will be chosing their own relationship dynamics whether it's what their grandparents approve of or not. so we've tried to instill safety, responsibility, respect and not being dumb into them.
 

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Hmm. And here I thought the only appropriate things to tell my children about sex when they were minors was 1) don't get pregnant and 2) make sure you have consent for whatever you do.

Everything else is their choice. I don't have to teach them that monogamy is better than an open marriage is better than swinging because these things are not objective facts. Their choices will certainly differ from mine. The only reason to behave otherwise would be the belief that they were not capable of making good choices of their own free will based on their desires. How condescending.
 
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Let me answer bluntly what I assume your really asking me. If they come to me and ask me what I think about swinging, I will tell them what I think of it. the good, the bad, the ugly.

will we ever tell them specifics of what our sex practices and activities are? No of course not just like I assume you won't tell your kids that you like your ass tickled with a feather while you suck your wife's toes. It's simply none of their business and they don't need to know and disclosure of our sex practices will be of no benefit to them or to us.

Since they were little I have had a very matter-of-fact, this-is-how-the-world-IS approach with them vs how the world should necessarily be. I don't speak as graphically with them as I do here by my tone is much the same.

They know that alternative lifestyles exist in the world and they know that those lifestyles will be more prevalent and visable in their lives than what they were in ours.

Kids today are much more aware and accepting of alternative lifestyles than we ever were.

Out of our kid's peer groups, we are one of the few couples that are actually still married and still together. Dang near all of their other peers have either divorced parents or never-married parents or two moms or two dads or whatever.

I hate to sound dismissive, but we are actually some of the most conservative and traditional parents and families in our community.

My wife is a little more traditional and church oriented that I am. but we have both pretty much raised them to be their own person and live their own lives and relationships. We've raised them to be safe, responsible, respectful, compassionate and to not be dumb. We've raised them to stand up for themselves and advocate for their own best interests and not be pushed around or manipulated.

We've also not tried to force them into any particular pidgeon hole. We have not demanded purety rings or swear virginity until married or any of that bullcrap.

We've acknowledged that their generation will be chosing their own relationship dynamics whether it's what their grandparents approve of or not. so we've tried to instill safety, responsibility, respect and not being dumb into them.
Lol. Your answers......

First thing you said was, "let me answer bluntly"

Then you went onto to be vague. You are too smart not to be doing that on purpose.


No one needs to know specifics in the bedroom. That much we can agree upon.


Let me give an example of what I think bigdaddy was asking.


Bigdaddy, when my kids get to be adult age and they can understand relationships, I will tell them that I love their mother. I've loved her within 3 months of dating her. I saved PIV sex for the first woman I truly fell in love with. It was important for me personally because I think it something special. I did not save any other act for her. I wanted to at explore somewhat. Just use your imagination kids. We will leave it at that.

I am Thankful that the first woman I truly fell jn love with was your mother, but that didn't guarantee that we would get married, so I'm not going to say that I saved sex for marriage. I did not.

You can both determine how you want to live your lives in your relationships. I believe the way your mother and j did it is the way to go to form a long lasting, loving bond. That's not to say we didn't have problems. We had severe problems that almost Broke us. I've thought of leaving on multiple occasions. Marriage is hard work. Both have to work together to make it work.

There are other lifestyles out there that work for other people. I do not have the mindset to have a clear picture on how they work as it wouldn't work for me. You have to find your own path, but I believe hard work and effort on the same path your mother and I went down has the best chance of success.



Now OS, instead of saying to your adult children "I'll tell them what I think. The good bad and ugly", will you tell them what you've done? The previous sentence is vague and doesn't confirm that 1. You would tell them that you are a swinger. You shared yourself with many people. Their mother shared herself with many people.

As for your life prior to marriage.... I don't even know what to say, so I'll just say this: if I were to ever cheat or if my wife did, my kids would know when they are adults. They need to know who their parents are.
 

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Hmm. And here I thought the only appropriate things to tell my children about sex when they were minors was 1) don't get pregnant and 2) make sure you have consent for whatever you do.

Everything else is their choice. I don't have to teach them that monogamy is better than an open marriage is better than swinging because these things are not objective facts. Their choices will certainly differ from mine. The only reason to behave otherwise would be the belief that they were not capable of making good choices of their own free will based on their desires. How condescending.
It isn't condissention to teach your kids what you think is right or wrong, is it?

BTW, I taught my minor children the exact same thing as you. It is now that they are young adults that we get into different territory.
 

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It isn't condissention to teach your kids what you think is right or wrong, is it?
Tough question. I think back to all the people through the decades who had a non-normative sexuality. How many gay children were told by their parents that they were morally bereft for loving someone of the same sex? How many young adults were disowned or took their own life? Too many.

Teaching your children what you thinks is right or wrong is part of a parent's responsibility, I agree. Not respecting their right to choose otherwise should be avoided. It's a tough line to tip-toe. You won't hear me advocating for allowing an 11 year old to start transitioning either. Adults get to make adult decisions. Children are not so entitled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #309 ·
Now OS, instead of saying to your adult children "I'll tell them what I think. The good bad and ugly", will you tell them what you've done? The previous sentence is vague and doesn't confirm that 1. You would tell them that you are a swinger. You shared yourself with many people. Their mother shared herself with many people.

As for your life prior to marriage.... I don't even know what to say, so I'll just say this: if I were to ever cheat or if my wife did, my kids would know when they are adults. They need to know who their parents are.
I thought I was clear.

No, we won't tell them. Just as I assume you won't tell your kids about the time you dressed up as a gladiator and she as a slave girl on the night before the big spectacle at the coliseum.

As I said above, that information is none of their business and won't benefit them.

My wife and I were not high school sweethearts that met at church choir practice and were good little virgins until we said I do.

We were adults when we got together and we each had our own histories. We weren't perfect kids and neither lived squeeky clean lives. We lived real lives including things the Vatican would not bless.

Our kids know this. They know we weren't perfect. They know we weren't squeeky clean and they know that we each had prior relationships.

They also know we chose to be with each other despite not living Hallmark Card lives prior.

But they've grown up their whole lives with two parents that love and honor and respect each other that hug and smooch and show affection and that have been there through all the triumphs and tragedies of life and are actually one of few parents that are still married and in a nuclear family out of their entire peer groups.

We are actually one of the most conservative and traditional families out of all of their cohorts.

But that's me. Maybe other swingers do tell their kids. I dunno, don't care either way. What others tell their kids isn't any of my beezwax.
 

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Discussion Starter · #310 ·
if I were to ever cheat or if my wife did, my kids would know when they are adults. .
If their parents were to divorce due to you or your wife cheating in your current marriage, I would agree they should be informed as that is something that will impact them and their lives going forward.

But something that happened over 30 years ago before their parents even met??? That's just plain silly and you know it.
 

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I thought I was clear.

No, we won't tell them. Just as I assume you won't tell your kids about the time you dressed up as a gladiator and she as a slave girl on the night before the big spectacle at the coliseum.

As I said above, that information is none of their business and won't benefit them.

My wife and I were not high school sweethearts that met at church choir practice and were good little virgins until we said I do.

We were adults when we got together and we each had our own histories. We weren't perfect kids and neither lived squeeky clean lives. We lived real lives including things the Vatican would not bless.

Our kids know this. They know we weren't perfect. They know we weren't squeeky clean and they know that we each had prior relationships.

They also know we chose to be with each other despite not living Hallmark Card lives prior.

But they've grown up their whole lives with two parents that love and honor and respect each other that hug and smooch and show affection and that have been there through all the triumphs and tragedies of life and are actually one of few parents that are still married and in a nuclear family out of their entire peer groups.

We are actually one of the most conservative and traditional families out of all of their cohorts.

But that's me. Maybe other swingers do tell their kids. I dunno, don't care either way. What others tell their kids isn't any of my beezwax.
Phew! You laid on the condescension pretty thick with that last post! 😂

again, the way you deflect.

you Compared a role playing experience between a husband and wife to swinging!!!! What a joke!😂😂😂😂

you are right. I won’t tell my kids what happens behind closed doors, but they’ll know that I’ve only had sex with their mother by my choice - and considering all the “choir boy” insults, my guess is that it burns you that a predator hasn’t been able to bed my wife yet.

because that is how your threads read. You decided to lower yourself to a cheater, probably didn’t feel too good about it, so now you have to pull everyone down to your level because you don’t want to be the only one that feels that way. So the way you feel better is to say, “all of you guys that think you have good wives? Guess again! I’m out there and so are other guys like me! We will pull your wives down to our level!” That is what I see when I read your words.




If their parents were to divorce due to you or your wife cheating in your current marriage, I would agree they should be informed as that is something that will impact them and their lives going forward.

But something that happened over 30 years ago before their parents even met??? That's just plain silly and you know it.
No it isn’t. Not by a long shot.

i have plenty more to say about this but I don’t want to get banned. I get way too much help from the good community members here to continue this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #312 ·
No it isn’t. Not by a long shot.

i have plenty more to say about this but I don’t want to get banned. I get way too much help from the good community members here to continue this.
I'm not meaning to sound condescending and I have been the one that has been the butt of people's ire here.

But the thing that has me curious is why on earth you and Big Daddy are so concerned about what I tell my kids about my sex life. Why does that matter to you? You don't think it's a little creepy for a grown man to be adamant that another grown man tells his kids about his sex life???o_O

So let me turn this back on you and you may have the floor,,,,,,,, Why??

More specifically, what would be the benefit for me telling my children what their parents have done in bed? How will their lives benefit from that information?

And you can't say because they would know me. They already know me, they have lived with me their entire lives since the day they were born.

Other than making YOU feel better in your sense of cosmic right vs wrong, (I still think it's creepy, but I'm trying to understand in case I'm missing something) what tangible benefit will come from them knowing what sex practices their parents have done?
 

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Discussion Starter · #313 ·
you are right. I won’t tell my kids what happens behind closed doors, but they’ll know that I’ve only had sex with their mother by my choice - and considering all the “choir boy” insults, my guess is that it burns you that a predator hasn’t been able to bed my wife yet.

because that is how your threads read. You decided to lower yourself to a cheater, probably didn’t feel too good about it, so now you have to pull everyone down to your level because you don’t want to be the only one that feels that way. So the way you feel better is to say, “all of you guys that think you have good wives? Guess again! I’m out there and so are other guys like me! We will pull your wives down to our level!” That is what I see when I read your words.
My wife was 28 and I was 31 when we married. We've been open with our kids that we had other relationships before we met and that we decided we were the right match for each other and chose each other. Is that really morally inferior than if we told them we had only been with each other?

As far as your assertion about the other stuff, I'm sorry but that is your baggage. I've explicitly stated that I'm glad things are good with your wife and I wish you continued health and happiness in your marriage.

I understand that you don't agree with many of my lifestyle choices and my world views, but I have never said or implied those things. Those are YOUR insecurities and baggage talking. I'm sorry you feel that way but those are not my words or my message.

I want people to have good, loving, healthy relationships.
 

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Lol. Your answers......

First thing you said was, "let me answer bluntly"

Then you went onto to be vague. You are too smart not to be doing that on purpose.


No one needs to know specifics in the bedroom. That much we can agree upon.


Let me give an example of what I think bigdaddy was asking.


Bigdaddy, when my kids get to be adult age and they can understand relationships, I will tell them that I love their mother. I've loved her within 3 months of dating her. I saved PIV sex for the first woman I truly fell in love with. It was important for me personally because I think it something special. I did not save any other act for her. I wanted to at explore somewhat. Just use your imagination kids. We will leave it at that.

I am Thankful that the first woman I truly fell jn love with was your mother, but that didn't guarantee that we would get married, so I'm not going to say that I saved sex for marriage. I did not.

You can both determine how you want to live your lives in your relationships. I believe the way your mother and j did it is the way to go to form a long lasting, loving bond. That's not to say we didn't have problems. We had severe problems that almost Broke us. I've thought of leaving on multiple occasions. Marriage is hard work. Both have to work together to make it work.

There are other lifestyles out there that work for other people. I do not have the mindset to have a clear picture on how they work as it wouldn't work for me. You have to find your own path, but I believe hard work and effort on the same path your mother and I went down has the best chance of success.



Now OS, instead of saying to your adult children "I'll tell them what I think. The good bad and ugly", will you tell them what you've done? The previous sentence is vague and doesn't confirm that 1. You would tell them that you are a swinger. You shared yourself with many people. Their mother shared herself with many people.

As for your life prior to marriage.... I don't even know what to say, so I'll just say this: if I were to ever cheat or if my wife did, my kids would know when they are adults. They need to know who their parents are.
I have to say I don't think I have ever known anyone who talks to their kids about their sex life. I mean they know we have sex but why on earth would you go into any other detail. I don't think there would be a family therapist, or counselor of any kind that would say discussing your personal sex life with your kids is a good idea of has any benefit at all.

And I don't understand all the hostility toward @oldshirt, is it that he slept with a few married women back in his twenties when he was single. I mean if he didn't someone else would have, meaning he was responsible for the infidelity in that marriage the woman was so she was going to cheat anyways. I'm not saying it was a fine thing to do, but it seems to be attracting more hostility than making some poor decisions in his teens and twenties should.
 

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Discussion Starter · #315 ·
Tough question. I think back to all the people through the decades who had a non-normative sexuality. How many gay children were told by their parents that they were morally bereft for loving someone of the same sex? How many young adults were disowned or took their own life? Too many.

Teaching your children what you thinks is right or wrong is part of a parent's responsibility, I agree. Not respecting their right to choose otherwise should be avoided. It's a tough line to tip-toe. You won't hear me advocating for allowing an 11 year old to start transitioning either. Adults get to make adult decisions. Children are not so entitled.
It is tough because it's a moving target. The goal posts move.

I'm older than most and had kids later in life than most people here. When I was my youngest's age, Gender reassignment surgery had been performed on like 5 people. Homosexual activities were still a criminal offense in a number of states. Interracial marriage was still technically illegal in a few states. And same sex marriage was only legal what, 10 years ago, if that?

There was essentially no legal protections in education, employment and housing and other services for people of different orientations and lifestyles.

There were no hate crime statutes and while actual assault and arson and such were technically criminal offences, there was a whole lot of looking the other way and whole lot of proscecutors that didn't think they had enough evidence despite dozens of witness and mountains of physical evidence.

Today, it's the discrimination that is illegal. Today the people losing their jobs and having lawsuits filed on them are the bigots and the Karens.

When I was my sons age, the people in the alternative lifestyles were considered bad and in the wrong. Today it's the people that would judge, discriminate or mistreat them that are bad and in the wrong.

As parents we have to instill values and right from wrong with our kids,,,,, but we also have to be aware of the times and the rules and standards of current society as well. When I was my son's age, a kid could get kicked out of school for being gay. But today a kid will get in trouble for making a gay joke or get kicked out for gay bashing.

and in some ways, the kids are probably more in tune with real world than we are.
 

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I'm not meaning to sound condescending and I have been the one that has been the butt of people's ire here.

But the thing that has me curious is why on earth you and Big Daddy are so concerned about what I tell my kids about my sex life. Why does that matter to you? You don't think it's a little creepy for a grown man to be adamant that another grown man tells his kids about his sex life???o_O

So let me turn this back on you and you may have the floor,,,,,,,, Why??

More specifically, what would be the benefit for me telling my children what their parents have done in bed? How will their lives benefit from that information?

And you can't say because they would know me. They already know me, they have lived with me their entire lives since the day they were born.

Other than making YOU feel better in your sense of cosmic right vs wrong, (I still think it's creepy, but I'm trying to understand in case I'm missing something) what tangible benefit will come from them knowing what sex practices their parents have done?
Screw it. I’ll give one more answer and I’ll be done with it

whether you admit it or not, you were CLEARLY acting like you were superior for some reason due to being non-monogamous. I really don’t care what you say at this point against that, I simply don’t believe you.

then you were incredulous that this here “choir boy“ would be the REAL threat by hitting on your wife. Me. The one and only. YOU were worried about ME. You, the cheater that most likely destroyed multiple marriages and possibly families. You thought I was crazy to worry about you. Again, I felt something was off and it turned out to be correct. You are EXACTLY the type of guy to worry about. You wait for vulnerabilities and exploit them in married women. You said even today that if a married woman gave you a nudge, you’d go for it. So, it looks like I was 100% to say that it would be crazy for me or my family to associate with someone like you. You are still willing to this day to have an affair!!!

How does this get back to your kids? It has nothing to do what goes on behind closed doors. All you need to say is that you’ve slept with many married women and your wife slept with many married men. You don’t even have to go into the fact that you started out your relationship with your wife cheating on another man. But if your way is so much better, so superior to “choir boys”, then tell you kids. I mean, you have nothing to be ashamed about right?

I will end with this: you’ve helped me well. I’m now confident that I can recognize a wolf in sheeps clothing in real life if I can recognize it just through the written word. And no, I didn’t read your old threads before I figured that out. Your old threads just confirmed what I already thought.
 

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I'm not meaning to sound condescending and I have been the one that has been the butt of people's ire here.

But the thing that has me curious is why on earth you and Big Daddy are so concerned about what I tell my kids about my sex life. Why does that matter to you? You don't think it's a little creepy for a grown man to be adamant that another grown man tells his kids about his sex life???o_O

So let me turn this back on you and you may have the floor,,,,,,,, Why??

More specifically, what would be the benefit for me telling my children what their parents have done in bed? How will their lives benefit from that information?

And you can't say because they would know me. They already know me, they have lived with me their entire lives since the day they were born.

Other than making YOU feel better in your sense of cosmic right vs wrong, (I still think it's creepy, but I'm trying to understand in case I'm missing something) what tangible benefit will come from them knowing what sex practices their parents have done?
As I understand it, if you are of the view that it's fine for you and your wife to have sex with others and that swinging is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, then why are you so very reluctant to share that with your children? No one has mentioned anything about sharing every intimate detail.
There must be reasons why you dont want them to know.
If we are happy to share with our children that faithfulness is what we think is the best way to live, so why are you so reluctant to share that it's not necessary for a good marriage?
Are you worried about what they may think for example?
 

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It is tough because it's a moving target. The goal posts move.

I'm older than most and had kids later in life than most people here. When I was my youngest's age, Gender reassignment surgery had been performed on like 5 people. Homosexual activities were still a criminal offense in a number of states. Interracial marriage was still technically illegal in a few states. And same sex marriage was only legal what, 10 years ago, if that?

There was essentially no legal protections in education, employment and housing and other services for people of different orientations and lifestyles.

There were no hate crime statutes and while actual assault and arson and such were technically criminal offences, there was a whole lot of looking the other way and whole lot of proscecutors that didn't think they had enough evidence despite dozens of witness and mountains of physical evidence.

Today, it's the discrimination that is illegal. Today the people losing their jobs and having lawsuits filed on them are the bigots and the Karens.

When I was my sons age, the people in the alternative lifestyles were considered bad and in the wrong. Today it's the people that would judge, discriminate or mistreat them that are bad and in the wrong.

As parents we have to instill values and right from wrong with our kids,,,,, but we also have to be aware of the times and the rules and standards of current society as well. When I was my son's age, a kid could get kicked out of school for being gay. But today a kid will get in trouble for making a gay joke or get kicked out for gay bashing.

and in some ways, the kids are probably more in tune with real world than we are.
Just because values in society have changed, some things are still important and some things need to be held on to. Such as faithful marriages. We dont have to all go along with the falling standards or the sense that 'anything goes'.
We dont have to accept that our children need to have the falling standards either.
 

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I have to say I don't think I have ever known anyone who talks to their kids about their sex life. I mean they know we have sex but why on earth would you go into any other detail. I don't think there would be a family therapist, or counselor of any kind that would say discussing your personal sex life with your kids is a good idea of has any benefit at all.

And I don't understand all the hostility toward @oldshirt, is it that he slept with a few married women back in his twenties when he was single. I mean if he didn't someone else would have, meaning he was responsible for the infidelity in that marriage the woman was so she was going to cheat anyways. I'm not saying it was a fine thing to do, but it seems to be attracting more hostility than making some poor decisions in his teens and twenties should.
We dont share the details with our children but we do share the values we have about sex and marriage.Thats important.
He doesn't want his children to know his values and that is telling.
He did say he slept with many married women. He has also slept with many married women since being married. It didnt stop.
 

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I have to say I don't think I have ever known anyone who talks to their kids about their sex life. I mean they know we have sex but why on earth would you go into any other detail. I don't think there would be a family therapist, or counselor of any kind that would say discussing your personal sex life with your kids is a good idea of has any benefit at all.

And I don't understand all the hostility toward @oldshirt, is it that he slept with a few married women back in his twenties when he was single. I mean if he didn't someone else would have, meaning he was responsible for the infidelity in that marriage the woman was so she was going to cheat anyways. I'm not saying it was a fine thing to do, but it seems to be attracting more hostility than making some poor decisions in his teens and twenties should.
I'm not talking about telling your kids the nitty gritty of your sex life. I'm talking about at a high level. I don't think it is all that strange that I would talk to my kids about my view on monogamy and that I believe you should be faithful to your spouse. It is part of who I am and what I believe in. @oldshirt has made it abundantly clear that monogamy isn't his thing, nor his wife's. It is who he is, what he believes in. Why wouldn't he want to share that view with his children? I'm asking because I get the sense that he is actually ashamed of it even though he says he isn't and has no regrets. I'm not talking about telling your kids about how mommy and daddy screwed in the backseat of a car at a concert. I'm talking about telling your kids about your fundamental beliefs. I think your stance on monogamy is a fundamental belief. If there are no regrets about a fundamental belief you have why wouldn't you share that with your children in an appropriate way and at an appropriate age? Being ashamed is the only thing I can really come up with, but maybe there is another reason.

I think some of that hostility is coming from how things are being said here and in the old threads of his that were mentioned. The old threads were definitely posted with good intent. A warning for others that even the most faithful wife could stray given the right circumstances and that there are predators or scavengers out there waiting to jump at the opportunity. They may even be average Joe that you hang out with time to time, so beware. Problem is that his style of conveying the message comes off very boastful, quite disturbing and very unrepentant. I know he was trying to be blunt and impactful to get his point across, but instead all I took away was that he was an unrepentant POSOM that didn't care about anything other than his own physical gratification. That kind of attitude is going to disgust some people to their core. He even said he purposely went looking for married women because he was too lazy to foster a real relationship. The women were just easy pieces of meat to get off with. I realize people do dumb things when they are younger, but he did this right up until he took his wife from her BF when he was around 30. He wasn't a dumb teen or 20 something. 10 years later he's back to sex with other men's wives, but at least it was with their permission at that point. As a whole this sounds like some pretty abhorrent behavior. And I don't ever buy the excuse that if it wasn't him then they would have cheated with someone else. I say let the other guy be the douche that thinks it is cool to bed women behind their husbands back and take the high road. If enough people take the high road I think we will all be better off.
 
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