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Part Two.

12281 Views 98 Replies 29 Participants Last post by  Rihanna, 
T
The first part was shut down and I didn't get a chance to respond to my critics. Here goes.

To answer some questions, our marriage has struggled for a long time. I should have left years ago. 2 (now almost 3 years ago), I came here looking for advice. I wanted my marriage to work and BOTH of us worked hard to make it such. It seems in working so hard, we realized that if something takes that much work, there isn't much left. Going out to a bar and having fun was something we looked forward to but driving there we barely spoke and now we both agree it was more exciting to dress up and have a night out, away from the kids and doing something other than watching television.

I asked him a few weeks ago if he was in love with me and he said no. He said he loved me but not in love. We talked at length and came to the conclusion that we have settled in to comfort, if you will. He loves me because he can tell me anything and I the same. He loves that I get him. He loves that I always have his back. He loves that I am his greatest cheerleader. He loves that when he comes home, he knows I will be there with an understanding ear. He loves that I look good. He loves that I can (in his words) light up a room and he said he has no intention of divorcing me, ever. He said we work well together and loves everything about me. Not once did he mention sexual attraction or anything close to that. I guess the reason I never left was because as awful as that was to hear, he too provided that for me. Smart, good looking and my best friend. He knows literally everything about me and accepted me despite of it.

Last night I told him about my desire to cheat and he didn't seem shocked. He understood and said he too has thought of it. Wow! He has rejected me time and time again and yet wants sex from others? A wife who wants sex 24/7 and he doesn't? Crushed is the only word that comes to mind but makes me all that much determined to find love.

To answer some more questions, I am not rewriting anything. There is nobody else. I don't have some dude in mind and frankly wouldn't know where to find one if I did decide to cheat. The reason I posted was more of a "talk me off the ledge" kind of thing or shall I say "talk me off of changing my position on cheating" thing. I am not a cheater but I am very angry. His response upset me deeply. Many have asked why I pushed his hand away when he grabbed my feet. It angered me because he has rejected me so much and the only contact I get is hand holding, feet and an occasional hug. I DON'T consider that touch. I like sex. Touching my feet and falling asleep is not sexy, not at all.

Again, you get married. Pledge your sexuality to your spouse and they throw it away. So at what point is it okay to cheat? Is it okay if you have already told your spouse that you might and their response is nothing short of "meh"?.
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Mr Whatever the hell your name is, I am not an opportunist. I took my inheritance from my Grandfather and put my husband through graduate school. When all was said and done, it was just over $150K. My Grandfather saved and scrimped for that money so that I could realize my dreams. I didn't, but my husband did with money I used to pay for his grad school and a new car, so tell me again how much of a gold digger I am. I dare you.
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TCSRedhead
So, that conversation is a START. Real love in a real marriage is not hearts, unicorns and flowers year after year. It's often hard and unrewarding but if the core is there (that love you describe from both of you), then you put yourselves in there to fix it.

Now that you've set the stage, the next step is to get yourselves in for some marriage counseling and work on re-establishing intimacy. Don't become petty and push him away physically since that translates into isolating yourselves further physically.

Make it clear that you expect his participation and commitment to this or a divorce will be inevitable. But most of all, stay true to your own integrity and do not cheat. I can tell you from experience, it's really hard to look yourself in the mirror when you've crossed that line no matter how much you 'think' you're justified.
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Gabriel
I am going to re-uggest that you two have an open discussion about entering an open marriage. I personally could never do that, but it seems you both want sex outside the marriage, and if you both get it, and know the other is getting it, and meet each other's needs in every other way, maybe that's the way to go. There is a subset of people than can live this way.

While that would make you both infidels, so to speak, it wouldn't be cheating. You'd both have permission. This may end up being your undoing as a couple, but, aren't you already there?
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Almostrecovered
Therealbrighteyes said:
So at what point is it okay to cheat?
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can't think of one, you file or separate first (or have an open marriage, which I am not a fan of)


Therealbrighteyes said:
Is it okay if you have already told your spouse that you might and their response is nothing short of "meh"?.
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well he didn't give you permission, here but had he flat out said, "go ahead and have sex with others" then it isn't cheating

what that does indicate is that he is already considering it himself as it's become painfully apparent he is not attracted to you (or is having his own affair?). Have you asked him specifically why he has no attraction for you?
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warlock07
Why do you think he is not sexually attracted to you ? Could it be a medical condition ?
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Almostrecovered
warlock07 said:
Could it be a medical condition ?
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doubt it considering he is demonstrating he has attraction for others

to me this is a form of ILYBINILWY

are there are any signs/flags that he is cheating?
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M
Wow, it sounds like you both have many components of a great relationship but the s6x and a bit of dullness. Best friends? The basic blocks sound like they are there.

As a practical manner, is there something that turns him off, but he's embarrassed to tell you? I had a gf once with a lot of hair where it shouldn't be :moon:... total turn-off, but I didn’t want to hurt her feelings with such a personal thing. It definitely impacted my physical passion towards her. She also kissed like an alien.

I really think that this is solvable. Don't decide to end it by going over the ledge. Once you cheat, you've set things in motion that cannot be easily changed.

I know that you think, "He thought about cheating, but I'm open 24/7 begging for it - what betrayal!!" He's in his late 30s early 40s? Could it be chemical drive to some degree?

Also, sounds like you both need to just start being romantic, rekindle. That's easy for me to say, very hard for you to get motivated to do. If you take it upon yourself to start being romantic (someone has to start it), you might not get an intial reaction or even feel as if it is a fruitless chore. Keep doing it - see if it works, worth a shot?

FYI -
It seems in working so hard, we realized that if something takes that much work, there isn't much left.
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. I know it's been a few years, but I hear from my grandparents (married 70 years), that they worked very hard at their marriage.

I wish you the best.
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CH
Ouch, can you really live a sexless life with your husband TRBE?

He's made it pretty clear, loves you but there is probably not going to be a sex life at all, or a good one.
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H
His answer is a cop out. Your are great, you are wonnderful, you have all these great qualities, I'll never divorce you... But I don't want to have sex with you. That logic makes no sense..

This is the thing... What long term married middle aged people would ansnwer yes to being "in love"? Who even contemplates that? The reason he will not divorce you is that he is happy in his marriage and he is getting his emotional needs met by you. His needs are not sex, they are all the other things he mentioned. He is happy and satisfied.

What you should ask him or experiment with is "would you want a divorce if you did not get all those things from me?". I suspect he would be the first to want a divorce if his needs are not being met.

Another possibility is that he resents you, has anger toward you and is afraid to tell you about it. Not for nothing but you are confrontational here on TAM, and he may be trying to avoid your wrath or arguments with him. He may not feel safe enough to reveal the truth.

You should also become knowledgeable about health insurance as a result of divorce in your state, options to buy health insurance through the state, and your rights under the new healthcare law beginning in 2014. I know in my state an many others you can buy heath insurance through the state and it is priced based on your income.
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Rihanna
Forget romance. How about spice? Maybe instead of opening up the marriage you could start smaller? Go to a strip club. Or to night club with gogo dancers. If he is lacking drive, let him ogle some girls with you and then you reap the reward. Share some fantasies about cheating with each other. Watch porn together. You do have to make an effort. If you want more sex, open your mind up to what he likes. Be patient as you can and overcome jealousy. This kind of thing has really brought my husband closer sexually. We haven't even gone to a strip club but talking about it and know it is on the table is pretty spicy for us. Then we have a next step if we get bored again. There are lots of other ways to do this. If you live in or near a major city you can go to a swingers party and not do anything but watch. Or better yet, you can fantasize together about doing it. Cheat on your husband with your husband. Take the big risks with your husband. If he doesn't respond to any of this kind of thing and keeps pulling away MC is probably in order.
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D
TRBE,
I happen to agree with you. I word it, to myself, as an exit affair. In my OWN life, I can only speak for me, but there is NO chance of working things out. Cheating to me implies you are gettin' some extra on the side and still maintaining a sexual relationship with your spouse, presenting yourselves as married to others, and thus the feelings of betrayal.

It's different if you are stuck where you are (for many many reasons) can manage to still live together somehow, but want to fully experience passion and love.

The difference? An exit affair is a reason for you to leave.
Cheating is cake eating.

There is no talking me off the ledge. I'm open to invitations. Respect is key. Being professional about it. I have zero intentions of being "sexual" with my husband. Not in the future, or down the road, or after I've been with someone else.

An open marriage is one where you still have sex with your spouse, but you are both free to include others. That's not the case either.
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turnera
Have you read His Needs Her Needs?
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D
TBRE,
We've gone to counselling for just this issue.. aside from others.
That's where the whole passive aggressive crap came up.

Recently, I brought up the whole "I'm not interested in sex" comment he made. And he LIED and denied he even said it. Came up with other excuses instead.

It's game playing. Getting back at you, due to resentment, not knowing how to deal with emotions more maturely, a whole list of reasons why. There is most likely nothing wrong with his sex drive, but he's not able to be emotional with you. My hubby either.

You can blame yourself til you die. You can work on yourself until you die. But you will probably never forget how much it HURT for him to hit that low because of some comment or whatever it is you did. And will he do it again? Maybe. But maybe not to you.
If you don't allow it.

You can either severely assert your boundaries here.... and tell him just how it's going to be (he WILL learn to deal with his emotions, and not shut you out and punish you) or you will find someone who will.
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Coffee Amore
Does his lack of sexual attraction or seeming lack of sexual attraction have anything to do with your breast cancer experience? Could that maybe play a part in how he's relating to you? I'm just taking a stab in the dark but sometimes when a person has been in the role of a caregiver (him) after an illness, it can impact the sexual relationship especially if that illness involves perhaps a body part central to some men's sexual attraction.

I know he was wonderful to you during your healing period and you've written about that. I just wonder if it left some lingering thing in his brain that even he's not aware of.

I could be way off base though. My two cents for what it's worth.
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J
Have you read enough cheating stories on here to see how cheating, or trying an open marriage works yet?

Have you two gone to counseling?
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Maricha75
Rihanna said:
Forget romance. How about spice? Maybe instead of opening up the marriage you could start smaller? Go to a strip club. Or to night club with gogo dancers. If he is lacking drive, let him ogle some girls with you and then you reap the reward. Share some fantasies about cheating with each other. Watch porn together. You do have to make an effort. If you want more sex, open your mind up to what he likes. Be patient as you can and overcome jealousy. This kind of thing has really brought my husband closer sexually. We haven't even gone to a strip club but talking about it and know it is on the table is pretty spicy for us. Then we have a next step if we get bored again. There are lots of other ways to do this. If you live in or near a major city you can go to a swingers party and not do anything but watch. Or better yet, you can fantasize together about doing it. Cheat on your husband with your husband. Take the big risks with your husband. If he doesn't respond to any of this kind of thing and keeps pulling away MC is probably in order.
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Uhhhh... Rihanna.... just FYI, do NOT suggest porn to TRBE. THAT won't happen. She has posted on TAM about her reasons for it, but I will let her tell you, unless you choose to search the forums for her posts on the subject. And, if she feels the same way about strip clubs as she does about porn (which I believe she has said in other threads), then that isn't going to happen. I agree, spicing up is a good idea... if she can get him to go along. But that can be done without going to strip clubs and watching that stuff.
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turnera
I sure wish people would stop starting new threads.
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P
Therealbrighteyes said:
Mr Whatever the hell your name is, I am not an opportunist. I took my inheritance from my Grandfather and put my husband through graduate school. When all was said and done, it was just over $150K. My Grandfather saved and scrimped for that money so that I could realize my dreams. I didn't, but my husband did with money I used to pay for his grad school and a new car, so tell me again how much of a gold digger I am. I dare you.
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How soon after you put him through Grad School & bought him a new car did he start to change towards you?
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Lon
TRBE, I highly suspect there is something he's not telling you. Hicks has it right that he could just be happy in the marriage, has his emotional needs met and doesn't have sexual needs... EXCEPT that he has already admitted to you that he has also been on the "I'm gonna cheat" ledge. And those two really do not mix, he has told you ILYBINILWY, but doesn't want a divorce, nor sex with you, but possibly someone else.

I would really question how loyal he truly is, IIRC he travels a lot, it certainly is no stretch for someone to envision a string of infidelity all along - of course I'm not saying that is so. Or perhaps that is not it at all and it is instead something more personal to him, such as a criticism he takes too hard...

as to physical touch love language, physical touch and sexual touch are two entirely different things for many people, when he tries to touch and you reject, to me this is a big deal for him, and probably very close to the heart of the matter, especially if he has remained loyal to you.

But of course, only you and him have it in you to find these things out and either work on it, live with it, or divorce... how firm was he on the "I'd never divorce you" statement, would he fight if you lead a divorce or just be passive about it?
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Lon said:
TRBE, I highly suspect there is something he's not telling you. Hicks has it right that he could just be happy in the marriage, has his emotional needs met and doesn't have sexual needs... EXCEPT that he has already admitted to you that he has also been on the "I'm gonna cheat" ledge. And those two really do not mix, he has told you ILYBINILWY, but doesn't want a divorce, nor sex with you, but possibly someone else.

I would really question how loyal he truly is, IIRC he travels a lot, it certainly is no stretch for someone to envision a string of infidelity all along - of course I'm not saying that is so. Or perhaps that is not it at all and it is instead something more personal to him, such as a criticism he takes too hard...

as to physical touch love language, physical touch and sexual touch are two entirely different things for many people, when he tries to touch and you reject, to me this is a big deal for him, and probably very close to the heart of the matter, especially if he has remained loyal to you.

But of course, only you and him have it in you to find these things out and either work on it, live with it, or divorce... how firm was he on the "I'd never divorce you" statement, would he fight if you lead a divorce or just be passive about it?
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Not sure why I started this part two thread but here goes. No, he isn't cheating. No, his response hasn't changed post cancer. No, rubbing my feet and me not liking it doesn't strike to the core of his being. Yes, he is passive. Only in relationships though. He manages to be plenty aggressive at work.

Turnera, I started this post because my other one was locked.
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