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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For anyone who has not followed my other post. My husband is having an EA. And because our conversation always turn into a verbal boxing match nothing really gets said or heard. My response to all this was...I will write it down, then you can see what I'm trying to say. He agreed, he wanted to read what I had to say. He proceeded by buying me a journal. These are my exact words I wrote to him. This could get long...

It would befitting to start off the New Year with a positive note. Sooo...A year or two ago, actually 09 I met a married couple who were artists. I found them while searching for inspiration on a piece I was trying to create. they were involved in an Artist Gallery/Forum online.They had some great pieces and we struck up conversation about them.... We corresponded for bout 2 months when one day I sensed an underground current of something not right. To cut to the chase. It appears that another member of that site, whom the couple new personally, tried to wedge her way into this couples life by advances toward the gentleman. I have to commend him for NOT falling pray to this woman who was out to destroy his marriage. It was refreshing..a rarity in today's society. Because you see, this couple and I have the same view towards marriage...and that is.

There are two ...who come to the center of this core, and surrounding this core is a magnificent wall. Within that wall there's love...much nurturing..bonding....respect and trust. From this center core you go beyond to explore and learn. YET ALWAYS AWARE of that center core...this heart, is only RESERVED for the other. And if this bond is broken. The walls will erode...crumble, then fall...

I don't know! I look around and what I see, feel, sense and hear troubles me. My walls are not as they should be. there's erosion and large holes. that's an indication of an intrusion. A manipulating, controlling factor that seeks to place itself permanently in my core...a surrogate replacement. Who let it in? Who opened the door? It wasn't me.I would never disrespect my marriage.

Something that seems innocent is NOT!

There's a disturbing sense in the air. It's been evolving for quite sometime, only to intensify over the past year...the gut tells me somethings not right..

I thought this year was going to start out positive...you know OPEN, HONEST, TRANSPARENT! But NO. There's those same old attachments wanting to interfere, control and manipulate. There are certain things I don't understand...and that is..When you are married and have "Friends of the Opposite Sex" those relationships take a back seat. There are certain things that are inappropriate and that DO NOT SUPPORT a marriage. It should be common knowledge that YOU do not open up emotionally to someone of the opposite sex when you are married. Your emotional needs are to be met by your spouse only! opening up to someone else allows them into that space that is RESERVED for your SPOUSE.

This is a scenario that is troubling....

What I really find disrespectful, with a host of many other things,is the constant texting and calling. This INSIDIOUS person text each morning like clock work. Doesn't matter what time...5am,6am...7!...? Of course they want to connect! Their reason for it is so YOU give them your UNDIVIDED ATTENTION! They SUCK all the Energy. And it gives them great pleasure to know they TRUMP your spouse. You know,it's like a big SLAP in the face every morning. Oh but that's not the end of the disrespect. Why would this person stop at just one. What are in these text? They speak of love, I miss you's,oxoxo...hugs and kisses, you are so wonderfuls. "A BUNCH OF VOMIT" When are you coming over....got crumpets....can you help me do something...whatever. Can yo do this? On and On and On everyday this goes on! What a WASTE of ENERGY and TIME!!!!! Any nit wit with half a brain can tell you that this is NOT a platonic friendship. It's something more. Even more HURTFUL is a SPOUSE who ENCOURAGES it! And you don't dare say to much about it...you'll be seen as stepping out of line..out of control. So you have concerns.what happens next? Well you know those boulders that held up that marriage wall? The ones that fell...because you the spouse (your wife)were trying to protect something sacred? You are now thought as the enemy of this friendship...so these boulders are used to protect the manipulating, controlling, narcissist sociopath from the spouse. They now get all the praise, the your so beautiful, hugs and kisses and so forth. Now it has become all deceptive and secretive.Don't talk about THEM! The places they meet, the time spent together, the phone calls the text...the EGO STROKING, hugs, cuddling,massaging......

I CANT IMAGINE doing this to my HUSBAND. NO BOUNDARIES very Disrespectful and I might add done BLATANTLY in my face.
Watching this so call friends treat each other like they are married.In fact that is what seems to be taking place. The tables turn. The friend takes on the spouses role and the spouse is now the friend. There are so many red flags to this relationship, One things for sure... It's NOT PLATONIC!!!!

It is INAPPROPRIATE for a MARRIED person to text & receive text and phone calls from someone of the opposite sex. Every hour on the hour...daily!!
For what? To monopolize your time and energy? No because there's more that's going on, something INTIMATE!
IT' is INAPPROPRIATE to, Synchronize your phone, calender and watch to this other person!
It is INAPPROPRIATE to run around shopping, meet up for lunch and not tell your spouse! "Hey darlin I saw you!"
Basically YOU shouldn't be doing anything with this person...WHY? Because you are MARRIED!!
The dynamics of this so called friendship will change NOW or you will lose a lot.And I'm not talking material things. Those mean NOTHING!
This Friend of yours is SO DISRESPECTFUL in so many ways. You are NOT to be discussing our marriage, finances, business, or items that belong to us with this TROLL! You've talked about these things with her and I've been informed.

YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE WORKING ON YOUR MARRIAGE! Which was our NEW YEARS RESOLUTION TO ONE ANOTHER!
NOT! nurturing some intimate friendship with this POACHER! YES! POACHER. She can't find anyone for herself so she poaches a married man.
That's what poachers do.

The way things seem to be heading, I don't expect much change. I beleive it will continue, Continue to tell this person everything,continue to text and call 24/7
continue to nurture this troll, continue to bow down and be at her beckon call.

It's just like distribution of wealth.You take what belongs to this person(emotional energy)and redistribute to someone who does not deserve it...the manipulator...the controller. This person disrespects our marriage as well as me.All this relationship does is break down the marriage And YOU are just as much to blame.You allowed it to happen!

So en-light of all the above.I am prepared to move on FOR MYSELF.I can NO LONGER live in a TOXIC ENVIRONMENT And YES I am a DOOR MAT to you as
indicated by your behavior with this person.

You are a sad man and you make me sad.

He read it and said he was glad he did.He said it was TRUE. And there is no way on earth are we splitting. There is to much to lose.
In response I demanded the dynamics of that friendship must stop. He agreed.

Heres the clinker. Hes shoved it under the rug as if it was nothing. No talking, only if I bring something up. When I get depressed, he says don't do that to yourself..let's do something fun.Okay, I get it, he's trying to take my mind off it.I realize it's been barely a week since he has read this.But don't you need to talk about it in order to RESOLVE it. This woman text and called him all super bowel weekend.I counted 8 in a row as we sat next to one another. He told me it was her because I asked. I told him he needed to have a discussion with her or I will. He said he would,but I doubt he has yet.

I personally don't think, he thinks, he's done anything wrong! or maybe ashamed. He is inherently shy. How do you resolve this? How do you get someone to open up? I still have open wounds and no resolve.
Was I not clear in my message? HELP!?
 

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Ugh, reading this triggered me. :(

I have no good advice to give, as I lost my husband to his EAP. You have been very clear. It seems he is rug sweeping, maybe mainly to keep you from hurting, but he needs to be willing to open up to you about it, and allow you to ask questions.

Best of luck to you.
 

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Hi there!

I skimmed over the letter, and will read more in depth later if I can, but here are my initial feelings on what has happened:

1) Your letter starts off rather confusing (or rather it would be confusing to most MEN, I understood where you were trying to go with it) Men are more simple and straight forward in their communication, so trying to illustrate your situation in that way most likely confused him.

2) You get get more to the point towards the middle/end but you sound so angry it's hard to get to the core of what you're REALLY wanting here, and that is to be understood, right?

3) He put the letter away and hasn't said anything yet because it confused him. He feels a great responsibility to figure it out and won't say anything till he does. He probably won't be able to figure it out though, because it was written in the language of a woman, not a man, so I would suggest re-writing the letter. He is not trying to hurt you or ignore you.

What you gave him sounds like a first draft. It contained a lot of RAW emotions. That is a GREAT way for you to vent your emotions, but for the purpose of coming to an understanding on your feelings, I would approach the letter in a different way:

1) Be as to the point as you can get. No analogies or illustrative talk, no raw emotions. It makes things easier on him.

2) Focus on how things made you FEEL rather and the things he did secondary. This will help him focus on the core matter, which is how hurt you are. Say things like "It makes me feel ____ when you ____"

3) Let him know of good things you feel about him as well. Like maybe "I love how strong you are, and I feel like you can conquer this problem with me" Saying a few positive things are things he can grab onto while trying to come to terms with the hurt feelings he's caused.

Good luck to you, and again I am so sorry for the awful situation you're in, and think you're a wonderful, brave woman for wanting to work past this EA with him.
 

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Two possibilities:

1 - He told you what you wanted to hear, but still carries it on. "I'll talk to her"... right. That's EXACTLY what you need... him to stop contact by talking to her. No, how about blocking her number, sending a no-contact letter or you calling her and telling her it's over?

2 - He's "sweeping it under the rug" because you demanded that it stop and he's finished it (although she may not have), but you didn't make it clear that you wanted all the details. So he views your continued questioning as an inquisition and trying to beat him over the head with the EA.

I think you need to talk to him (or write to him) telling him that while you asked (demanded) that the EA end, you need him to open up so you can have some closure. Define that closure. Don't make it open-ended so he knows that it isn't a weekly/monthly/annual rehash of his mistakes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ugh, reading this triggered me. :(

I have no good advice to give, as I lost my husband to his EAP. You have been very clear. It seems he is rug sweeping, maybe mainly to keep you from hurting, but he needs to be willing to open up to you about it, and allow you to ask questions.

Best of luck to you.
I thought that too, about not trying to hurt me. He does get teary eyed when he knows I'm depressed. It still is something that needs discussion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi there!

I skimmed over the letter, and will read more in depth later if I can, but here are my initial feelings on what has happened:

1) Your letter starts off rather confusing (or rather it would be confusing to most MEN, I understood where you were trying to go with it) Men are more simple and straight forward in their communication, so trying to illustrate your situation in that way most likely confused him.

2) You get get more to the point towards the middle/end but you sound so angry it's hard to get to the core of what you're REALLY wanting here, and that is to be understood, right?

3) He put the letter away and hasn't said anything yet because it confused him. He feels a great responsibility to figure it out and won't say anything till he does. He probably won't be able to figure it out though, because it was written in the language of a woman, not a man, so I would suggest re-writing the letter. He is not trying to hurt you or ignore you.

What you gave him sounds like a first draft. It contained a lot of RAW emotions. That is a GREAT way for you to vent your emotions, but for the purpose of coming to an understanding on your feelings, I would approach the letter in a different way:

1) Be as to the point as you can get. No analogies or illustrative talk, no raw emotions. It makes things easier on him.

2) Focus on how things made you FEEL rather and the things he did secondary. This will help him focus on the core matter, which is how hurt you are. Say things like "It makes me feel ____ when you ____"

3) Let him know of good things you feel about him as well. Like maybe "I love how strong you are, and I feel like you can conquer this problem with me" Saying a few positive things are things he can grab onto while trying to come to terms with the hurt feelings he's caused.

Good luck to you, and again I am so sorry for the awful situation you're in, and think you're a wonderful, brave woman for wanting to work past this EA with him.
Well he knew i wrote it when I was angry and yes it needs defining I'm generally not an angry person...I'm more even tempered. This has made me angry. Our normal behavior is kind and loving to one another. But being kind and loving wasn't getting any answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Two possibilities:

1 - He told you what you wanted to hear, but still carries it on. "I'll talk to her"... right. That's EXACTLY what you need... him to stop contact by talking to her. No, how about blocking her number, sending a no-contact letter or you calling her and telling her it's over?

2 - He's "sweeping it under the rug" because you demanded that it stop and he's finished it (although she may not have), but you didn't make it clear that you wanted all the details. So he views your continued questioning as an inquisition and trying to beat him over the head with the EA.

I think you need to talk to him (or write to him) telling him that while you asked (demanded) that the EA end, you need him to open up so you can have some closure. Define that closure. Don't make it open-ended so he knows that it isn't a weekly/monthly/annual rehash of his mistakes.
Your possibilities are both valid. I believe it's a little of #1 and #2 is a definite. This woman as I stated is A controller a sociopath, manipulator. I don't think she will let this go. I believe I'm the one who will have to contact her and end if for him. I want him to do it because he wants it to end. Not because I told him too.

I'm not concerned about the particulars of the EA and I don't bombard him with question. I've learned to ask him politely who's calling or things concerning his day. All I'm really asking is how do we safe guard our self's from future threats. He hasn't responded
 

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Well he knew i wrote it when I was angry and yes it needs defining I'm generally not an angry person...I'm more even tempered. This has made me angry. Our normal behavior is kind and loving to one another. But being kind and loving wasn't getting any answer.
You were fine to have those feelings and to want him to understand them. But you asked if the letter is confusingly written, and it is. If your intent is to make someone understand you (especially if the recipient is a man), your best bet is to say things as straightforward and succinctly as possible.

Writing the note with extreme anger and defenses aside will make it much easier for him to "get it".Do not confuse that with being soft or overly loving, that's npt what I'm suggesting. Treat it as if men and women speak different languages. Your current letter is in the language of woman. You need to change it to the language of a man.

We could all help you re-write it, if that's what you choose to do :)
And I understand how aggravating it is to not have the love of your life recognize the pain you see/feel so clearly. You just gotta help him see it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Suggestions as to how to rewrite this are very much welcome and appreciated. I feel very inadequate as a wife and hurt by his actions. I still feel his distance even when we are together.
 

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Suggestions as to how to rewrite this are very much welcome and appreciated. I feel very inadequate as a wife and hurt by his actions. I still feel his distance even when we are together.
You are NOT inadequate. His infidelities are his own problem. Please please do not let his bad actions reflect upon your self confidence!

And I am so so sorry you're hurting right now. I can only imagine how difficult all of this is for you. :( BIG HUG!

To help give suggestions on a re-write, can you list (as succinctly as possible) the things you most want to get across to him? What feelings do you want him to validate? What actions do you want him to take?

More importantly, are you SURE you are willing to work with him to move past the EA (if he is of course)? Do you think you can forgive him?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You are NOT inadequate. His infidelities are his own problem. Please please do not let his bad actions reflect upon your self confidence!

And I am so so sorry you're hurting right now. I can only imagine how difficult all of this is for you. :( BIG HUG!

To help give suggestions on a re-write, can you list (as succinctly as possible) the things you most want to get across to him? What feelings do you want him to validate? What actions do you want him to take?

More importantly, are you SURE you are willing to work with him to move past the EA (if he is of course)? Do you think you can forgive him?
Thank you for the big hug. Much appreciated.

The main thing I want to get across to him is..what he did was NOT appropriate behavior for a married person. He thinks what he did wasn't wrong, because no sex was involved. But there was cuddling and kissing, along with massaging one another. That's a very fine line that one can easily slip across. It started by my husband allowing her to cry on his shoulder.She was losing her home and because we had lost our home to fire and she allowed us to park our rv in her driveway. so now he felt it was payback time and he was the only one equipped to help her..so he said. He spent excessive amounts of time with her taking her to the lawyers helping her with paper work and comforting her when she was depressed and crying. All that bonding time turned in to I love yous and I miss you text and phone calls. At the same time I had to deal with our home the majority of the time alone. I expressed i needed help too.
I don't mind helping people as long as we do it together,but I really wasn't included. I want him to understand I need him too. I do need him I love him very much. We just had our anniversary Sunday and again this woman text and calls numerous times.I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives? I want him to stop contact with this person. There is no reason for it any longer. She has her home secure now. she doesn't need his help any longer. If in case that is the real reason he stuck around so long. He still talks with her. He doesn't tell me. I want him to be open, transparent and honest. which he is maybe 65% of the time. He has to be 100% if he wants our marriage to work. I don't hide anything from him. I don't see why he should either. I've partially forgiven already because it's my nature. But not fully.
 

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I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives?
She thinks she's entitled because he allows her to do it. When he puts a stop to it, it will stop.

The buck stops with your husband. Until he acknowledges this relationship is inappropriate for a married man to have, you'll continue to fight with him over her.
 

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I'm afraid your wasting your own emotional energy trying to convince him logically that EA is wrong.

IMO, it's time to draw a line in the sand. If it was me I would give an ultimatum. If H wants you and the marriage, he has to go NC and he has to be a big boy and not depend on you to do it for him. (Not a bad idea to have a witness to make sure he is clear about NC through- do you have any male relatives or friends who could be in the room while he makes a phone call to OW?)

What Are Plan A and Plan B?
 

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I'm confused. In your letter you mention cuddles, massage and hugs. This would be a PA for me. You should really read up in the copping with infidelity section. Even if it is an EA. There is a lot of work your husband needs to do. Starting with a NC letter that you read before it gets sent. You should read up on what the fog is. That is what your husband is most likely in. She texted him 8 times during the super bowel. Did your husband respond? If so what did he say.He should be an open book to you right now to earn back your trust. You should have access to all text messages, emails, ect. Being in contact in any way with this toxic woman will hinder the healing of your marriage. Block her number on his phone. I know I'm rambling but please read the coping with infidelity section.
 

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Thank you for the big hug. Much appreciated.

The main thing I want to get across to him is..what he did was NOT appropriate behavior for a married person.

He thinks what he did wasn't wrong, because no sex was involved. But there was cuddling and kissing, along with massaging one another. That's a very fine line that one can easily slip across. It started by my husband allowing her to cry on his shoulder.She was losing her home and because we had lost our home to fire and she allowed us to park our rv in her driveway. so now he felt it was payback time and he was the only one equipped to help her..so he said. He spent excessive amounts of time with her taking her to the lawyers helping her with paper work and comforting her when she was depressed and crying. All that bonding time turned in to I love yous and I miss you text and phone calls. At the same time I had to deal with our home the majority of the time alone. I expressed i needed help too.
I don't mind helping people as long as we do it together,but I really wasn't included.

I want him to understand I need him too. I do need him I love him very much. We just had our anniversary Sunday and again this woman text and calls numerous times.I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives? I want him to stop contact with this person. There is no reason for it any longer. She has her home secure now. she doesn't need his help any longer. If in case that is the real reason he stuck around so long. He still talks with her. He doesn't tell me. I want him to be open, transparent and honest. which he is maybe 65% of the time. He has to be 100% if he wants our marriage to work. I don't hide anything from him. I don't see why he should either. I've partially forgiven already because it's my nature. But not fully.
Writing a letter is not going to change a thing. Neither will talking. He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. His IQ would have to be around 15 points not to.

Put a stop to it in very simple terms he can comply with. "If she contacts you even one more time after today, we are going to separate. I don't care how you do it... change your number and delete your social accounts if necessary, or leave now, but I am not going to tolerate another woman's presence in my marriage."
 

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Thank you for the big hug. Much appreciated.

The main thing I want to get across to him is..what he did was NOT appropriate behavior for a married person. He thinks what he did wasn't wrong, because no sex was involved. But there was cuddling and kissing, along with massaging one another. That's a very fine line that one can easily slip across. It started by my husband allowing her to cry on his shoulder.She was losing her home and because we had lost our home to fire and she allowed us to park our rv in her driveway. so now he felt it was payback time and he was the only one equipped to help her..so he said. He spent excessive amounts of time with her taking her to the lawyers helping her with paper work and comforting her when she was depressed and crying. All that bonding time turned in to I love yous and I miss you text and phone calls. At the same time I had to deal with our home the majority of the time alone. I expressed i needed help too.
I don't mind helping people as long as we do it together,but I really wasn't included. I want him to understand I need him too. I do need him I love him very much. We just had our anniversary Sunday and again this woman text and calls numerous times.I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives? I want him to stop contact with this person. There is no reason for it any longer. She has her home secure now. she doesn't need his help any longer. If in case that is the real reason he stuck around so long. He still talks with her. He doesn't tell me. I want him to be open, transparent and honest. which he is maybe 65% of the time. He has to be 100% if he wants our marriage to work. I don't hide anything from him. I don't see why he should either. I've partially forgiven already because it's my nature. But not fully.
I agree with the Comic, from a man's point of view the first version was way to wordy. On average we are much simpler creatures, you have to get to the bottom line. The version here does exactly that, I recommend taking out the last sentence and send to him. Even a dumb old country boy like me can understand your meaning. Don't settle for less than you deserve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I agree. No one in our family knows of this issue and I it should be between us only. However my mother in-law suspects something concerning this woman. This woman has called numerous times when we have been at the in-laws and my mother in-law doesn't like it. She would be the first person that would head on over and punch this woman out, then her son if need be.

So no I would want to witness this myself.
 

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I think it was great you wrote the letter and confronted the situatioin. I had a similar problem with my wife. Emails several times a day to him. I confronted her and said it had to stop. The contact had to be cut completely or the marriage was over. It didnt' matter if it were a physcial or an emotional affair. To me both would kill our marrige it didn't end. We sat down and composed a letter to the guy she was talking with saying that both my wife and i agreed this kind of contact between married people was destructive and the contact would end. My wife claimed it was all innocent. I said fine if it is let's see if his wife knows. I called her and of course she didn't know. That helped to kill it. However, we did go to counseling. Lets face it I was not meeting her emotional needs, nor her mine so we had to work it out. It does take time and trust has to be built over time. You need to work on it. Also complete transparency. You both should have access to each others phone or emails with out a single complaint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm confused. In your letter you mention cuddles, massage and hugs. This would be a PA for me. You should really read up in the copping with infidelity section. Even if it is an EA. There is a lot of work your husband needs to do. Starting with a NC letter that you read before it gets sent. You should read up on what the fog is. That is what your husband is most likely in. She texted him 8 times during the super bowel. Did your husband respond? If so what did he say.He should be an open book to you right now to earn back your trust. You should have access to all text messages, emails, ect. Being in contact in any way with this toxic woman will hinder the healing of your marriage. Block her number on his phone. I know I'm rambling but please read the coping with infidelity section.
I agree with you 100% about the PA. But in his mind...No intercourse No Affair.

No,he did not respond to her at all Super Bowl weekend. He ignored all calls as he always does when I'm around. When I'm not around I cant say...

I will look everything up you suggested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Writing a letter is not going to change a thing. Neither will talking. He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. His IQ would have to be around 15 points not to.

Put a stop to it in very simple terms he can comply with. "If she contacts you even one more time after today, we are going to separate. I don't care how you do it... change your number and delete your social accounts if necessary, or leave now, but I am not going to tolerate another woman's presence in my marriage."
The letter writing only came about because I would get emotional when trying to express myself. I thought maybe he would understand it better in written form. Guess not!

I'm finding my only recourse may be to try your suggestion.
 
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