Talk About Marriage banner

61 - 80 of 80 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,358 Posts
I have been where you are. And stayed. And it never got better. But I still stayed. Let me tell you where this ends 20+ years later.

You will hate yourself. You will believe you are worthless and weak because you did not have the guts to divorce. Your work performance will suffer. Your overall enjoyment of life will suffer. You love for your wife will wear away to nothing.

Unless and until you completely give up on sex. If you stay, stop having sex a few times a month. Just take sex off the table. Your wife will test you a few times to see if you will weaken. If you decline her advances and pass the test, she will visibly relax. She will cherish how devoted you are to her. And you may find her more willing to hug or cuddle, once she understands that hugging and cuddling will not lead to you trying to initiate sex.

Frankly, if I had it to do all over again, I would have left the day the wheels of the plane touched down at the end of our nearly sexless honeymoon. But if you are determined to stay with your wife, stop torturing yourselves. Take sex off the table, and see if she becomes happier. If she does, you will know that there was nothing you could do to motivate her to become more sexual.

Oh, and don't be fooled. You will still hate yourself for staying. But the marriage will be much more enjoyable once the elephant in the corner is dead and buried.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
I have been where you are. And stayed. And it never got better. But I still stayed. Let me tell you where this ends 20+ years later.

You will hate yourself. You will believe you are worthless and weak because you did not have the guts to divorce. Your work performance will suffer. Your overall enjoyment of life will suffer. You love for your wife will wear away to nothing.

Unless and until you completely give up on sex. If you stay, stop having sex a few times a month. Just take sex off the table. Your wife will test you a few times to see if you will weaken. If you decline her advances and pass the test, she will visibly relax. She will cherish how devoted you are to her. And you may find her more willing to hug or cuddle, once she understands that hugging and cuddling will not lead to you trying to initiate sex.

Frankly, if I had it to do all over again, I would have left the day the wheels of the plane touched down at the end of our nearly sexless honeymoon. But if you are determined to stay with your wife, stop torturing yourselves. Take sex off the table, and see if she becomes happier. If she does, you will know that there was nothing you could do to motivate her to become more sexual.

Oh, and don't be fooled. You will still hate yourself for staying. But the marriage will be much more enjoyable once the elephant in the corner is dead and buried.
Note the bolded section. And ask this question, because I'm asking it of myself.

Why didn't we ("we" meaning people like you & I) deal with this way-back-when? We're intelligent people. We knew something was amiss. What exactly were we thinking that allowed us to put up with it for so long? Why didn't we recognize a problem and deal with it then? Why does it sometimes take decades, occasionally the better part of our lives, before we've "had enough" and seek therapy of some kind?

Why don't we EVER read stories about people who "did it right" and are living a happy married life that differs so greatly from what ours have been? I guess because they have nothing to complain about so why would they be here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,763 Posts
Note the bolded section. And ask this question, because I'm asking it of myself.

Why didn't we ("we" meaning people like you & I) deal with this way-back-when? We're intelligent people. We knew something was amiss. What exactly were we thinking that allowed us to put up with it for so long? Why didn't we recognize a problem and deal with it then? Why does it sometimes take decades, occasionally the better part of our lives, before we've "had enough" and seek therapy of some kind?

Why don't we EVER read stories about people who "did it right" and are living a happy married life that differs so greatly from what ours have been? I guess because they have nothing to complain about so why would they be here?
Because deep down, we dont think we can do any better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
Note the bolded section. And ask this question, because I'm asking it of myself.

Why didn't we ("we" meaning people like you & I) deal with this way-back-when? We're intelligent people. We knew something was amiss. What exactly were we thinking that allowed us to put up with it for so long? Why didn't we recognize a problem and deal with it then? Why does it sometimes take decades, occasionally the better part of our lives, before we've "had enough" and seek therapy of some kind?

Why don't we EVER read stories about people who "did it right" and are living a happy married life that differs so greatly from what ours have been? I guess because they have nothing to complain about so why would they be here?
Because deep down, we dont think we can do any better.
I don't think that's true. I don't think it's an inferiority issue. I think, at least in my case, it may have been a combination of delusional, fatalism and distraction. I do agree with the idea that it's a choice we made so to some extent you rationalize it's a situation of your own making.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,439 Posts
I think that's unfair to get dinner going, clean up, and get right to my sexual pleasure after a long day. That said, on weekends when we're off, there's a lot more time.
I think most here will agree that giving sexual pleasure is also a critical priority - if it just to bust out some worm pus , we'd just go grab the handle and get it out. But as males we generally like females sexually, we like the touch and look and feel of most if them, and are wired to find great excitement in their sexual parts and sexual activity with them. It is why advertisers use it, and what powers the next generation of the human race. It's why we have girlfriends, fiances, and wives - instead of booze and bike buddies. Why do women have male husbands, if not for the sexy time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
Life is not a dress rehearsal. This is the only life you will ever have. You can "suffer through" and then... you are dead. This is it.

The OP needs to figure out what his wife's problem is. Lesbian? Asexual? He's no good at sex, just thrusting in and out without giving her pleasure? Does she masturbate? Does she have a vibrator? Etc. If she won't talk, then counseling might help.

Just being a "religious person" doesn't mean that you would make a great spouse. There is so much more....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #68
My belief is that this situation as it stands is unworkable. Before throwing in the towel, which, I do recommend, I believe that one final confrontation wherein you state that you are ending the marriage due to the denial of conjugal rights. I have been in meetings where the final straw was cast. One case, the husband was dealing with ED, and was not admitting it. This is a shock and awe approach. Either she will work on changing, or she can spend the next few decades all alone.

Sir, you may love her, but you will grow to resent her. Needs in marriage must be met. That must be made apparent. Do not let her manipulate by shutting down. In one meeting, we were talking finances, the wife's favorite tactic was to feign a shudder, and shut right down. Usually this would occur in their kitchen, this time it was in our boardroom. This time, it embarrassed the hell out of the husband. This time, he walked around to her side of the table, got in her face and said, this works when we are alone, but now you are an embarrassment. Sit the **** up and listen. She finally caught on, and gave out a weak, OK. Time for you OP to shake her up.
It's one of those things, before getting married, I promised myself I wouldn't throw in the towel. I suppose it would be easy if something dramatic happened, like her cheating. Then it's simplistic. I struggle with the ability to divorce over the "small" things. Yet, those small things basically make up life. My fear is that I divorce, go through all that stigma and hardship, financial loss, and end up on this forum. What if medication has eliminated her sex drive? Or energy? I just see articles everyday on here saying "things were great for the past 11 years...", with once again, the answers all being divorce.

I do feel manipulated many times. So many times when I bring up something, she feigns exhaustion, sickness, etc. I have a feeling it comes with her childhood, and her parents just said "OK, you go rest". She just came living from home, so I (quite literally) believe she has never had to clean, make dinner, etc.

My next step is just to be more forceful. Perhaps I'm not expressing the seriousness of this situation. It honestly does feel like a roommate situation, at best. But even then, I wouldn't tolerate half the things from a roommate, like keeping things messy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Note the bolded section. And ask this question, because I'm asking it of myself.

Why didn't we ("we" meaning people like you & I) deal with this way-back-when? We're intelligent people. We knew something was amiss. What exactly were we thinking that allowed us to put up with it for so long? Why didn't we recognize a problem and deal with it then? Why does it sometimes take decades, occasionally the better part of our lives, before we've "had enough" and seek therapy of some kind?

Why don't we EVER read stories about people who "did it right" and are living a happy married life that differs so greatly from what ours have been? I guess because they have nothing to complain about so why would they be here?
Um...at the risk of sounding boasting, my marriage is nowhere near these types of stories. Granted my first marriage was and it took 10 years to wake up to the emotional abuse my then wife was doing to me and the kids. And it's not to say that the current poly marriage is problem free. We have such a problem my husband, emotionally withdrawing, as well as not being able to take trash and dishes away from his computer station, or clean up his miniatures painting are in the dining room. I feel like I am doing all the work in trying to organize and downsize the house. But overall it's way better than my first.

But in answer to the first part, I'd say, and it especially applies to first marriages, we lie to ourselves, not wanting to admit that we missed things during the NRE period, which sadly is when too many marriage occur nowadays. While somethings are easy to admit our errors on, relationships tend not to be one of those areas. Now, me, since I got out of that first marriage, have dated a lot, even after marrying the legal current wife. I've learned to spot when I am in a problem relationship, and I leave. But even then it takes me a while.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,997 Posts
It's one of those things, before getting married, I promised myself I wouldn't throw in the towel. I suppose it would be easy if something dramatic happened, like her cheating. Then it's simplistic. I struggle with the ability to divorce over the "small" things. Yet, those small things basically make up life. My fear is that I divorce, go through all that stigma and hardship, financial loss, and end up on this forum. What if medication has eliminated her sex drive? Or energy? I just see articles everyday on here saying "things were great for the past 11 years...", with once again, the answers all being divorce.

I do feel manipulated many times. So many times when I bring up something, she feigns exhaustion, sickness, etc. I have a feeling it comes with her childhood, and her parents just said "OK, you go rest". She just came living from home, so I (quite literally) believe she has never had to clean, make dinner, etc.

My next step is just to be more forceful. Perhaps I'm not expressing the seriousness of this situation. It honestly does feel like a roommate situation, at best. But even then, I wouldn't tolerate half the things from a roommate, like keeping things messy.
You are joking right? This is a small thing.

Tell you what, if want to, just clip those puppies off and hand them to your "wife".

Why be in a sexless marriage? What is that about.

Dude you could get divorced 10 time and still be living a better life than you are now.

Wow, I just don't understand...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
I struggle with the ability to divorce over the "small" things. Yet, those small things basically make up life. My fear is that I divorce, go through all that stigma and hardship, financial loss, and end up on this forum.
Sex is an integral part of marriage. I hardly see it as a "small" issue. FYI: You already are on this forum.

What if medication has eliminated her sex drive? Or energy? I just see articles everyday on here saying "things were great for the past 11 years...", with once again, the answers all being divorce.
If you don't want to deal with the "stigma" of divorce, then don't divorce her. The thing is, things have NOT been great for you "for the past 11 years." You've been in a sexless marriage from the get-go. Whether you decide to stay and suck it up or leave and suck it up is no skin off my nose.

She just came living from home, so I (quite literally) believe she has never had to clean, make dinner, etc.
I don't know anyone who grew up in that type of environment. Where I come from, we call it giving kids "chores" to do in order to earn an allowance.

My next step is just to be more forceful. Perhaps I'm not expressing the seriousness of this situation. It honestly does feel like a roommate situation, at best. But even then, I wouldn't tolerate half the things from a roommate, like keeping things messy.
After a year of getting some really good advice on TAM, you are now going to get more "forceful." But what exactly do you mean by "forceful"? Do you think she will even respond positively? Because from where I'm sitting, I think she'll just shut down … again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,792 Posts
Old yiddish expression: Tuches offen tisch. The clean translation is to put your cards on the table. Direct translation, ass on the table. The direct approach is called for.Sit her down, and tell her directly, sex or divorce. If she feigns any thing just say, I guess your answer is divorce. Walk away from her at that point and be prepared to back it up. At the very least you will get some idea what her agenda may be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,490 Posts
I think Anon is looking for someone - anyone - to give him the magic bullet to "cure" this situation. Sadly, there isn't one.

Like I said before, denial is a powerful thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
Old yiddish expression: Tuches offen tisch. The clean translation is to put your cards on the table. Direct translation, ass on the table. The direct approach is called for.Sit her down, and tell her directly, sex or divorce. If she feigns any thing just say, I guess your answer is divorce. Walk away from her at that point and be prepared to back it up. At the very least you will get some idea what her agenda may be.
I think coming across as saying that having sex will fix things is just kicking the can down the road. She might come up with scheduled sex and what you get is her tolerating or at best being willing, but without passion or desire. It doesn't take long for that to just feel wrong, because it is wrong. It's not addressing the problem many of us have.

The problem isn't "sex." The problem is that our significant other does not find value in doing something for their partner that, to the partner, is very special. Perhaps special because it's something only their partner can do for them.

I used to not want to have anything to do with cleaning up the kitchen. Or making the bed. Or making anything in the house look a bit nicer. Or put away clothes that my wife hasn't gotten to yet. But a year ago when all the stuff hit the fan (long story told elsewhere) something clicked in me. I looked for things she didn't really enjoy doing, and helped her with them. And because it did something for her, it gave me great pleasure. Cleaning the kitchen after dinner became something I actually looked forward to, because it was with her, and for her. I have no desire to do any of those things otherwise. But they are special because they are special to her.

The reverse doesn't happen. She cannot connect with feeling good about something that I've let her known would be special to me. She does "nice things" for me only if she can relate to them herself. And since she herself doesn't see sex as much more than a hassle or requirement that should be treated like any other nuisance, she avoids it and simply cannot connect sexually.

What is sex anyway? What makes it something you'd want to avoid if you truly loved someone? Let's say you're thinking that, since you get no pleasure in it, it's a selfish thing for the other person to expect it. OK, so if I'm giving my wife a backrub for 20 minutes, something she REALLY needs every other day or so, why do I do it? Do my fingers and hands and arms need the exercise? Does it turn me on? None of the above. I do it because I can spend those 20 minutes and make her feel better and special doing something that nobody else is going to do for her.

What makes sex different? Lots of things. It's a merging of two people that one could see as intrusive, an unwanted invasion of their body. It's something that is uniquely yours.

Except that you're married and if sex is intrusive in that sort of way I really don't think the issue is sex. It's something much deeper than that.

So again this is not as simple as saying sex is a requirement and just has to happen, or else. The person subject to the "or else" is simply unable to relate in a way that makes anything change, long term. There is something going on much deeper that has to be fixed.

When I figure out what that is, what has to be fixed, I'll let you know. The one thing I do know is that people don't actually change that much and you may find the root of a problem goes back much further than you think. b
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Your wife has far too many issues to list

But when you break everything down to the base, she just wasn’t prepared to be an adult, let alone get married.

The best thing you can do is to file for divorce and simultaneously get her into some heavy duty therapy!

Good luck, stay strong, and do NOT feel guilty about doing the right thing, which I believe you know what that is
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
So I married a religious woman, that grew up where sex 'before' marriage was sinful. We had sex every visit back in those days, but she never gave it that "enthusiasm". When I brought it up, she said it was hard to enjoy something sinful. So I understood that, from that psychological standpoint, and moved on.

Now, we've been married for over a year, and I can count on both hands the number of times for sex. Most fell on some special occasion, and even then was initiated by me. Not once has it ever been from her perspective, or even had the slightest inclination of excitement. Can someone, literally, have zero interest in sex with their husband? I've tried bringing it up, and I can't even remotely approach it without her shutting down, and if pushed any further, will just get in the vehicle and leave.

I'm literally at a LOSS of what to do, what to say. I can't live a lifetime of no-sex, coming from relationships where things were daily. I know that sounds so selfish, and I don't expect daily, but at least some kind of frequency.

When I read any type of forum on this issue, it's just to divorce her.
What religion is she? Hopefully she is a follower of Jesus. I guarantee if the two of you follow Jesus together your marriage will be redeemed and you will find the comfort you have been looking for.

Your situation is not abnormal, but it is also unacceptable, and divorce is not the answer. You are the man. Lead your household. Show them what the church is all about and love like Jesus!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #78
OP here. I pretty much agree, and am just soaking in the responses. Hoping one found a solution in the midst.

The best I can gather is she isn't ready for marriage, has no idea how to be a spouse, spoiled in the past, and no interest in sex. I imagine a lot has to do with her family dynamics. I have also learned (but don't know the details) that something happened to her at college, sexually, which made her go from straight A's to dropping out mid-term.

I can guarantee there's no cheating, at least now, as we've been quarantined for two months. So if she had a sex drive, surely she'd masturbate or at least be having sex.

This is also not the time I can act on the matter. The courts aren't even open.

In terms of emotional, non-physical, moments, they can be great. She is great at caring, and cuddling, works full-time, and doesn't spend a nickle. I just think of my exes though, and how different this quarantine would be given our passions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,880 Posts
I truly don't understand why people get themselves into this fix. When people show you who they are, believe them. It really isn't that hard!

I'm beginning to think that people who think that somehow a marriage ceremony will cure whatever ails their intended have a screw loose. Maybe they're the ones who need to get into counseling.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,997 Posts
Yeah, no kidding. I think OP is just in such a level of denial that nothing will wake him up.

OP it does not matter what the truth is, what her reasons are, the effect and the results are the same.

You are in a sexless marriage, and you need to get out. WHICH MEANS FILE FOR DIVORCE....
 
61 - 80 of 80 Posts
Top