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Discussion Starter #61
I didn't mean my post to come across as criticism of you, but I can see how it would. You are right I have NO IDEA. The point I was trying to make is staying for the kids is not necessarily a good thing, and often not about the kids.

I'm sorry if my post caused you pain, seems like you had a bad enough deal.

Thank you, I appreciate your apology. I do agree that staying in a bad marriage for the kids is not a good thing. Over the past two years I have found myself slowly withdrawing from both my husband and the family. I haven't been the kind of mother I want to be because I've been hiding away in my bedroom every night. Granted, I have had some very serious, long term medical issues in that time so some of it was about that, but even when I got better, I stayed withdrawn.

Now, I'm in my own space and I'm spending quality time with my children again. I'm back to being me. Almost everyone I've seen in the past few weeks has remarked that "you seem so much happier and lighter, like a weight's been lifted after many years" and most of these people do not know yet that I have moved out. And as much as I don't think they like the idea of having divorced parents, I know my children are enjoying the fact that I'm no longer hiding. I know I'm enjoying it immensely.

I am living here for the kids, I am not staying married for the kids. I am trying to keep it as amicable as possible for their sake, but I will be proceeding with a divorce.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
I dreamt last night we were having a fight because she didn't want to be with me anymore... we were supposed to renew our vows and I called it off... ugly dream... I'm glad I'm out...

I hate when dreams are too close to real life. *hugs*

I know your situation is similar to mine in that you are living in a separate apartment until your youngest graduates. Is that working for you? Is your (ex)wife respectful of your space? Any problems I should watch out for as time goes on?
 

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I hate when dreams are too close to real life. *hugs*

I know your situation is similar to mine in that you are living in a separate apartment until your youngest graduates. Is that working for you? Is your (ex)wife respectful of your space? Any problems I should watch out for as time goes on?
I haven't moved yet... a couple of weeks ago, she said if I could wait so she could think about it and maybe revive our marriage in the near future. I said I would think about it. But I haven't given her an answer yet. One part of me wants to, but another part knows she won't change. Maybe at the beginning. She needs therapy and she won't go. Then things will stay the same or get worse, although I don't see how they could get worse. I feel guilty about divorcing just because of the sex. Because this is how she sees it. I have explained to her many times that it's not just sex. It's the intimate connection. She has withdrawn sex for the last 13 months, knowing very well how it hurts me. How can I be with somebody who does this intentionally? She's told me I can have sex somewhere else, but I don't want sex "somewhere else"... we need to separate first.

She's also accused me of being angry about the lack of sex (wanted sex twice a month) for a period of time about 10 years ago, at the height of our crisis. Now she can't get over it. This is why she doesn't want sex... apart from being mentally ill, being on anti-depressants, suffering from empty nest syndrome and the menopause... so, yes, she's blaming me.

It's a total mess. After 30 years together, I find it very difficult to let go. I know she is not well either, but she won't do anything to fix herself. I can't stay in this marriage.
 

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People keep the pain they are most comfortable with - until a worse pain causes them to change. She's ok with the status quo. Apparently her 'anger' at how you've acted isn't painful enough for her to leave you, right? In other words, it's just an excuse she pulls out to control you, make you shut up.

The ONLY chance you have of getting her to decide to go to therapy or fix anything is by leaving.
 

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People keep the pain they are most comfortable with - until a worse pain causes them to change. She's ok with the status quo. Apparently her 'anger' at how you've acted isn't painful enough for her to leave you, right? In other words, it's just an excuse she pulls out to control you, make you shut up.

The ONLY chance you have of getting her to decide to go to therapy or fix anything is by leaving.
yes, you are right... her anger at my anger is not enough for her to leave me. And despite me threatening many times, I've never left for real. So, it's an empty threat. Last time I said I wanted a separate life and that I was going to have sex with other people. She said "fine"... because she doesn't believe me. And she is right. I didn't do it. Now we are back to square one with me waiting for her to change her mind... again. In the meantime, I have changed my mind 347 times... the only way to break this vicious circle is to do the right thing: go. This doesn't mean she is going to go to therapy. Only that she will be alone for the rest of her life. I understand she doesn't want to face her ghosts, but she never had the decency to tell me: actually, we are going to divorce now. She is waiting for me to do it, because she knows I won't...
 

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Discussion Starter #66
I haven't moved yet... a couple of weeks ago, she said if I could wait so she could think about it and maybe revive our marriage in the near future. I said I would think about it. But I haven't given her an answer yet. One part of me wants to, but another part knows she won't change. Maybe at the beginning. She needs therapy and she won't go. Then things will stay the same or get worse, although I don't see how they could get worse. I feel guilty about divorcing just because of the sex. Because this is how she sees it. I have explained to her many times that it's not just sex. It's the intimate connection. She has withdrawn sex for the last 13 months, knowing very well how it hurts me. How can I be with somebody who does this intentionally? She's told me I can have sex somewhere else, but I don't want sex "somewhere else"... we need to separate first.

She's also accused me of being angry about the lack of sex (wanted sex twice a month) for a period of time about 10 years ago, at the height of our crisis. Now she can't get over it. This is why she doesn't want sex... apart from being mentally ill, being on anti-depressants, suffering from empty nest syndrome and the menopause... so, yes, she's blaming me.

It's a total mess. After 30 years together, I find it very difficult to let go. I know she is not well either, but she won't do anything to fix herself. I can't stay in this marriage.
I just read your entire thread dating back quite a few years. She seems to repeat this pattern and you let her. If she hasn't changed by now, she's not going to and for your own mental health it's time to move on. You've been honest about your needs, which are not unreasonable btw, and she has chosen time and time again to continue to ignore them. I understand that she has some mental health issues, but the fact that she refuses to get any help for them speaks volumes about how little your love means to her. She likes everything about being married except for the intimacy and sex. But a marriage without intimacy is just roommates and while it's nice to have a roommate it's not what you need. I know from experience that it is soul crushing to be alone when your spouse is standing right next to you.

I think if you moved out now, you might find that a huge weight has been lifted from you. Yes, it's hard to give up some of the expectations and comforts that come with having a partner. I am getting used to that now, taking out my own trash, calling for my own car repairs, etc, etc but those things pale in comparison to how much better I feel now that I am no longer alone in my marriage. The feeling of being alone is SO TOTALLY different when you're alone because you're single vs alone because your spouse doesn't want you. I can't express enough to you that you will feel better when the expectation of "she should want me, why doesn't she?" goes away. If you move out, you stop that expectation and you instantly feel better.

I recommend that you do move out. If you aren't ready to say it's permanent than commit to trying it for 6 months to see what happens. I also think at this point that you need IC to help you navigate this change in your life. If you don't, nothing will change and you will find yourself 20 years from now realizing you've wasted 50 years of your life. That is NO way to live.
 

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I just read your entire thread dating back quite a few years. She seems to repeat this pattern and you let her. If she hasn't changed by now, she's not going to and for your own mental health it's time to move on. You've been honest about your needs, which are not unreasonable btw, and she has chosen time and time again to continue to ignore them. I understand that she has some mental health issues, but the fact that she refuses to get any help for them speaks volumes about how little your love means to her. She likes everything about being married except for the intimacy and sex. But a marriage without intimacy is just roommates and while it's nice to have a roommate it's not what you need. I know from experience that it is soul crushing to be alone when your spouse is standing right next to you.
100% spot on.

I think if you moved out now, you might find that a huge weight has been lifted from you. Yes, it's hard to give up some of the expectations and comforts that come with having a partner. I am getting used to that now, taking out my own trash, calling for my own car repairs, etc, etc but those things pale in comparison to how much better I feel now that I am no longer alone in my marriage. The feeling of being alone is SO TOTALLY different when you're alone because you're single vs alone because your spouse doesn't want you. I can't express enough to you that you will feel better when the expectation of "she should want me, why doesn't she?" goes away. If you move out, you stop that expectation and you instantly feel better.

I recommend that you do move out. If you aren't ready to say it's permanent than commit to trying it for 6 months to see what happens. I also think at this point that you need IC to help you navigate this change in your life. If you don't, nothing will change and you will find yourself 20 years from now realizing you've wasted 50 years of your life. That is NO way to live.
Jamie, you are doing awesome, you are to be commended for how your are handling yourself and moving forward.
 

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I just read your entire thread dating back quite a few years. She seems to repeat this pattern and you let her. If she hasn't changed by now, she's not going to and for your own mental health it's time to move on. You've been honest about your needs, which are not unreasonable btw, and she has chosen time and time again to continue to ignore them. I understand that she has some mental health issues, but the fact that she refuses to get any help for them speaks volumes about how little your love means to her. She likes everything about being married except for the intimacy and sex. But a marriage without intimacy is just roommates and while it's nice to have a roommate it's not what you need. I know from experience that it is soul crushing to be alone when your spouse is standing right next to you.

I think if you moved out now, you might find that a huge weight has been lifted from you. Yes, it's hard to give up some of the expectations and comforts that come with having a partner. I am getting used to that now, taking out my own trash, calling for my own car repairs, etc, etc but those things pale in comparison to how much better I feel now that I am no longer alone in my marriage. The feeling of being alone is SO TOTALLY different when you're alone because you're single vs alone because your spouse doesn't want you. I can't express enough to you that you will feel better when the expectation of "she should want me, why doesn't she?" goes away. If you move out, you stop that expectation and you instantly feel better.

I recommend that you do move out. If you aren't ready to say it's permanent than commit to trying it for 6 months to see what happens. I also think at this point that you need IC to help you navigate this change in your life. If you don't, nothing will change and you will find yourself 20 years from now realizing you've wasted 50 years of your life. That is NO way to live.

I totally agree. My "little one" goes to uni in September... that will be the time to move out. I don't need a 6 months trial. As you say, she will never change. I need this massive weight to be lifted off my shoulders. Then, I will tell the other kids. The older one knows already. She knows about my September deadline. In fact, she suggested it.

I guess that, after over 30 years together, I'm scared and I find it very difficult to let go. But I need to do it because this is killing me. Thanks for you kind words.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
Jamie, you are doing awesome, you are to be commended for how your are handling yourself and moving forward.
Thank you. I'm trying. I still have my moments, believe me. I still occasionally wallow in the "why me?" of it all. But I guess everyone has those feelings about stuff in their life. I know others have dealt with much worse than I have so things could be worse. So I give myself a few moments to wallow and then I move on to something else, something more positive.
 

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I totally agree. My "little one" goes to uni in September... that will be the time to move out. I don't need a 6 months trial. As you say, she will never change. I need this massive weight to be lifted off my shoulders. Then, I will tell the other kids. The older one knows already. She knows about my September deadline. In fact, she suggested it.

I guess that, after over 30 years together, I'm scared and I find it very difficult to let go. But I need to do it because this is killing me. Thanks for you kind words.
I know that you are trying to find the right timing for your youngest. I am in the US and I know school is done differently here than in the UK, but has your child been admitted to college yet? If so, then if he/she struggles a bit now, it would be a better time than when he/she is starting in college and having to experience huge changes in life, ie. moving out of the house, new school, trying to make new friends, etc. I think dealing with the change in your marriage and living situation would be easier NOW than later. Just something to think about.

I was very worried about my kids and my husband was as well. My oldest is in her first year of college. Guess what, they are all surviving. Yes, they too, have their moments. But in the end, they are doing quite well. None of their grades have suffered. They are adjusting. I think it really helps that although I "moved out" I am still right here, close and available. It also helps that things are very amicable between my husband and I. I can't stress enough the difference it makes. Kids not having to choose between their parents is crucial in helping them through this.

I know it's hard to let go. That's why I think some counseling would help you to see that you are worth so much more than what you're getting in this marriage and give you the strength to let go.
 

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I know that you are trying to find the right timing for your youngest. I am in the US and I know school is done differently here than in the UK, but has your child been admitted to college yet? If so, then if he/she struggles a bit now, it would be a better time than when he/she is starting in college and having to experience huge changes in life, ie. moving out of the house, new school, trying to make new friends, etc. I think dealing with the change in your marriage and living situation would be easier NOW than later. Just something to think about.

I was very worried about my kids and my husband was as well. My oldest is in her first year of college. Guess what, they are all surviving. Yes, they too, have their moments. But in the end, they are doing quite well. None of their grades have suffered. They are adjusting. I think it really helps that although I "moved out" I am still right here, close and available. It also helps that things are very amicable between my husband and I. I can't stress enough the difference it makes. Kids not having to choose between their parents is crucial in helping them through this.

I know it's hard to let go. That's why I think some counseling would help you to see that you are worth so much more than what you're getting in this marriage and give you the strength to let go.

We've been discussing (here) the right timing... some people suggested May, after she finishes her exams... I think this is probably the best solution. The problem is that the children expect us to go on holiday all together this summer as a family unit and I would like that, because it would be the last time... so, it's not an easy decision. As far as IC is concerned, I'm struggling to find one... because there are so many! :laugh:
 

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I totally agree. My "little one" goes to uni in September... that will be the time to move out. I don't need a 6 months trial. As you say, she will never change. I need this massive weight to be lifted off my shoulders. Then, I will tell the other kids. The older one knows already. She knows about my September deadline. In fact, she suggested it.

I guess that, after over 30 years together, I'm scared and I find it very difficult to let go. But I need to do it because this is killing me. Thanks for you kind words.
Well, I've been giving advice in forums for more than 10 years now. And I can tell you of the thousands of people whose story I've followed, there wasn't a single one who STAYED and came back and said it was the right thing to do. OTOH, I can name at least 20 people who've come back (most never come back) and said that leaving was the best decision they ever made, they couldn't believe how much they were enjoying life, and they were happier than they ever thought they would be, way back when.
 

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We've been discussing (here) the right timing... some people suggested May, after she finishes her exams... I think this is probably the best solution. The problem is that the children expect us to go on holiday all together this summer as a family unit and I would like that, because it would be the last time... so, it's not an easy decision. As far as IC is concerned, I'm struggling to find one... because there are so many! :laugh:
I wonder how much you'd actually enjoy that last vacation? Once I made the decision to leave I waited until after the holidays wanting to give my kids one last Christmas as a family. It was torture, absolute torture. It was the worst holiday season of my entire life. Besides the fact that I just wanted out, I knew the whole thing was a big lie. And now looking back, how fair was that to my kids? When they look back on this past Christmas they're going to know that it was a lie. That wasn't very fair of me to do to them. I thought it was the right thing at the time, I really did but now I think it was a mistake. My entire marriage was a lie and on a much smaller scale I did the same thing to my kids and I seriously regret it now. Just something to think about.

As far as finding a therapist, if there are so many you should just pick one and start from there. If it's not a good fit you can try again. But not picking one because "there are so many" is just delaying you from getting the care you need, which is after all, the big complaint you have against your wife, no? Just do it, you need it!!!!
 

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We've been discussing (here) the right timing... some people suggested May, after she finishes her exams... I think this is probably the best solution. The problem is that the children expect us to go on holiday all together this summer as a family unit and I would like that, because it would be the last time... so, it's not an easy decision. As far as IC is concerned, I'm struggling to find one... because there are so many! :laugh:
If your wife will be amicable, you can separate and still go on the trip together.
 

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Thanks... I'm struggling to come to terms with it. She is the love of my life and I find it difficult to accept it's over. Of course, I could accept an inferior type of relationship with her, but that's not what I want. I have to accept she doesn't love me anymore and that she probably hasn't loved me for a long time. I can see how some of this was my fault, by not understanding the damage I was doing by treating a mentally ill person as a "normal" person. She couldn't cope with my "demands". Defence mechanism, again. So, yes, I have to accept I can't fix her and that this is what she wants. Very sad.
 

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I wonder how much you'd actually enjoy that last vacation?
I probably wouldn't... I have already told my daughter I'm not very keen... we'll see how it pans out. My wife suggested it, so I'm a bit lost. Or not. She probably thinks I will never leave, and she is right. Why shouldn't she? I never left. But withdrawing sex forever is a step too far... I will give her my answer probably at the end of May, and it will be "goodbye"...
 

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Feel like giving an update? I'm sure many of us are wondering how things have been going in this unique situation. Like, how is the separation going while living at the same address; how are you guys handling the day-to-day stuff like cooking, kids, chores, etc; what about dating, especially with his same-sex orientation? And now that it's been a couple of months, how do you feel about your decision?
 
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