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The two cheats I referred to that my wife committed both occurred while I was stationed (active duty military) overseas and deployed 2010-2011.

One a one night stand that she confessed to and one a full blown affair that I discovered.

While we did work through this, her position has always been that I was in some way responsible;


Over the years we have had a remarkable ability to work through problems.

Our pastor has explained that often Christian spouses have difficulty when trying for years and then the other spouse suddenly comes to the faith as desired.

This is odd but, seems to happen more than you woulod expect.

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So, it's as if one time wasn't enough to scratch her itch that she had a full blown one to boot and you suspecting a third. Pf course she wants to blame you for everything.

You have never worked it out only rugswept it.

And for the pastor, how enlightening of him he's not got his act together. Call it what it is infidilty to the extreme, not because her husband came to the faith. Where is his responsibility, to have her own this. Man your fighting a up hill battle all the way. Don't believe the pastor he doesn't know what he is talking about. Because he's a pastor don't mean he has the right answers. He's not God nor can he absolve her, she needs to make amends and show contrition for her laying on her back for who ever she chooses.

I feel for you my man, but eating crap doesn't prove you to be a man, standing with integrity and owning your flaws like you have done here.

But in no way are you responsible for her.
 

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So many good questions and it's hard to answer all of them on a phone. As soon as I can get to a computer I will answer more and better.

I can answer a few though.

First, I do agree that she has not accepted full responsibility for the two previous affairs. The first , a one night stand she gave a very heartfelt apology for. The full blown second not so much. Even now, she will say she is sorry but, still insists that she engaged in both because of what was going on with us.
Define please - as explicitly as your are comfortable. But please detail. It feels like you're dancing around something here, and it's hard to give you advice while guessing.

I always tell her that I do not accept blame and the decision and actions were entirely hers. Usually I get no response to this.
And yet, here you are, reconciling with someone that accepts no accountability for her actions. There's a term for this: a false reconciliation. These are often even more painful and traumatic than the originating infidelity. They usually end with even more cheating, even more attempts at reconciliation, and then divorcing. With a lot more trauma on both sides.
https://www.emotionalaffair.org/false-reconciliation-perhaps-devastating-d-day/

This work is hard and takes integrity. It sounds like your wife doesn't like to work hard and has no integrity. You cannot do this alone.

I have also told her that I consider all this current texting with strangers to be a texting affair, regardless of whether it's with one individual or a bunch and regardless of whether there is any explicit talk, meeting, or it just stays as conversations about nothing for a while then moving on. One thing about what I have seen in the conversations I found and read is that she is rejecting the idea of anything but talk and that what she has told me about them is true. What I have tried to explain to her, and am concerned about, is the conversations becoming too familiar. She is a good hearted person who would give the shirt off her back to help others but, this characteristic can work against her. I do think she has developed an addiction to this chatting and dont know if anyone can help her understand that.
She literally does not care what you think is cheating and isn't, and if it's wrong or not.

Her position. As the youth ministry leader is voluntary for spare time. We are both engaged in our church in this way. I do not understand how she can surf these adult sites, chatting with them, then teach young children about God a few days later. His us not her. I know she is having some sort of faith crisis but, she has even expressed concern that if our pastor finds out she will be removed. This tells me that on some level she knows this is wrong.
I know the feeling. I once helped build a dojo, then the head instructor cheated on his girlfriend with a female student. And I couldn't sit there and watch that instructor lecture students about bushido, which literally starts with gi (righteousness). I couldn't take it, so I resigned from the board, stopped teaching or attending classes there, and even though it meant the loss of something I spent years helping build and have lost friends, I had to be true to myself.

So I guess what I'm recommending is for you to be true to yourself.

Integrity is that which no man can either give you or take from you. You can only give it to yourself, or give it away. Do you feel a sense of integrity being married to your wife?
 

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You're right. Her actions are saying something different. She is aware that I know, that it is hurting me, that I can see when she is doing it, yet continues doing it even knowing it is hurting me and only further damaging our chances of working things out.
You need a new mantra:

"She does not care."

You need to accept this. She may want to stay married to you because of what you provide, or it gives her a well-defined role, or gives her respectability or whatever. But she wants her side dudes, and thinks she has a right to them. And literally does not care if that hurts you.

My ex was the same way. She was baffled why other people tried to bring how I'd feel about her behaviour into the equation. It literally did not matter to her. I couldn't change it about her.

But I could accept it, and then act based upon that acceptance.
 

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Perhaps, if you tell her that you re going to talk to your pastor--with or without her--that would be enough motivation for her to stop.

Addictions do not stop without hard work or enough motivation.
Affairs that only stop because they get policed aren't really stopped at all. You can't police someone or shame someone into having integrity. At best, you'll get smug sanctimoniousness and at worst they'll just hide it better and pretend they're righteous.

You have to have what it takes to do the right thing even when it's hard and when nobody's watching.

Go ahead and tell the pastor - if it helps you and your church, OP. It will not help her.
 

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I can't believe she did this.

Yesterday evening, we were sharing a relatively calm friendly moment. She needed some things from the store which I got. Her back was sore and I massaged it for her. We talked about various things. As the following day was my birthday, I requested a low key family meal & game night. I also requested she take a ONE day break from the chatting on line, which she agreed to. We shared a pleasant bit sipping tea and watching TV after which I went to bed (1130 ish). I checked web activity around 1:30 am and nothing. It seemed she was working with me. Around 2:30 (now the date was my birthday) and I checked again. This time I discovered activity on the adult sites and chatting. When she came to bed I asked her if she was went to the sites and chatted. She replied yes. I asked her about the agreement. She replied that it technically wasn't my birthday yet. I explained to her that it was. I then told her that she had a problem with compulsive inappropriate browsing & chatting, then left to sleep on the couch. I was going to take a weekend trip but circumstances dictated otherwise. So, I am taking some family/friends to dinner & a movie; and have no intention of inviting her.

I know she needs to decide if ruining her job, church/social life, and family is worth risking over something so pointless. At this point, it seems as though it is.

I am at a point where I really don't care what she does, she just needs to decide or, I will make the decision for her. If made for her, she will lose everything.

Oh, and yesterday, after spend 4+ hours, in the wee morning, browsing adult sites and chatting; then in the evening teaching 2-5 year olds about Christianity and the Bible. I just don't get HOW ON EARTH this doesn't create a moral/ethical demila for her. She was NEVER previously like this.

I just don't get any of this and am about to take a VERY hard line for her to shape up or get out.
 

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I can't believe she did this.

Yesterday evening, we were sharing a relatively calm friendly moment. She needed some things from the store which I got. Her back was sore and I massaged it for her. We talked about various things. As the following day was my birthday, I requested a low key family meal & game night. I also requested she take a ONE day break from the chatting on line, which she agreed to. We shared a pleasant bit sipping tea and watching TV after which I went to bed (1130 ish). I checked web activity around 1:30 am and nothing. It seemed she was working with me. Around 2:30 (now the date was my birthday) and I checked again. This time I discovered activity on the adult sites and chatting. When she came to bed I asked her if she was went to the sites and chatted. She replied yes. I asked her about the agreement. She replied that it technically wasn't my birthday yet. I explained to her that it was. I then told her that she had a problem with compulsive inappropriate browsing & chatting, then left to sleep on the couch. I was going to take a weekend trip but circumstances dictated otherwise. So, I am taking some family/friends to dinner & a movie; and have no intention of inviting her.

I know she needs to decide if ruining her job, church/social life, and family is worth risking over something so pointless. At this point, it seems as though it is.

I am at a point where I really don't care what she does, she just needs to decide or, I will make the decision for her. If made for her, she will lose everything.

Oh, and yesterday, after spend 4+ hours, in the wee morning, browsing adult sites and chatting; then in the evening teaching 2-5 year olds about Christianity and the Bible. I just don't get HOW ON EARTH this doesn't create a moral/ethical demila for her. She was NEVER previously like this.

I just don't get any of this and am about to take a VERY hard line for her to shape up or get out.
Let me game this out for you.

If you draw a line in the sand she's gonna make you the bad guy. You're controlling, you're possessive, you don't trust me, you haven't forgiven me...

If you stick to your guns, and she complies, you're going to have to police her. She's going to test boundaries and find ways to sneak around you, get it on, and get out without you knowing. It will be a game to her, and one that even if you win, you lose - because you're going to have to police her forever.

So an ultimatum is a no win scenario.

So, drop a nuke instead. Tell the pastor. Tell her family. Tell your friends. And tell her that you are 100% done.

In this way, you can move on and find someone with integrity. Or, she can do the work to become someone of integrity on her own, and you can judge for yourself the results of this. But there won't be a game. You win either way.
 

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Why would she think she's at risk of ruining what you mentioned?

She believes you lack the fortitude to hold her accountable.

And you know what? She's 100% right.

Until then, it's business as usual for her.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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I can't believe she did this.

Yesterday evening, we were sharing a relatively calm friendly moment. She needed some things from the store which I got. Her back was sore and I massaged it for her. We talked about various things. As the following day was my birthday, I requested a low key family meal & game night. I also requested she take a ONE day break from the chatting on line, which she agreed to. We shared a pleasant bit sipping tea and watching TV after which I went to bed (1130 ish). I checked web activity around 1:30 am and nothing. It seemed she was working with me. Around 2:30 (now the date was my birthday) and I checked again. This time I discovered activity on the adult sites and chatting. When she came to bed I asked her if she was went to the sites and chatted. She replied yes. I asked her about the agreement. She replied that it technically wasn't my birthday yet. I explained to her that it was. I then told her that she had a problem with compulsive inappropriate browsing & chatting, then left to sleep on the couch. I was going to take a weekend trip but circumstances dictated otherwise. So, I am taking some family/friends to dinner & a movie; and have no intention of inviting her.

I know she needs to decide if ruining her job, church/social life, and family is worth risking over something so pointless. At this point, it seems as though it is.

I am at a point where I really don't care what she does, she just needs to decide or, I will make the decision for her. If made for her, she will lose everything.

Oh, and yesterday, after spend 4+ hours, in the wee morning, browsing adult sites and chatting; then in the evening teaching 2-5 year olds about Christianity and the Bible. I just don't get HOW ON EARTH this doesn't create a moral/ethical demila for her. She was NEVER previously like this.

I just don't get any of this and am about to take a VERY hard line for her to shape up or get out.
Really, YOU CANT BELIEVE THIS... Dude she has been doing this stuff for your whole marriage, YOUR WHOLE MARRIAGE...

YOU CANT BELIEVE THIS???

Are you reading what you have written. Why is this a surprise in any way.

You simply must wake up and understand that your WIFE does not love you if she ever did...

Why are you putting yourself through this????
 

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Mesmerizing, is where you at at, she's already chosen the answer you seek, why are you not listening to her? Bust this thing down, get real and then pick up the pieces. Game over, or are you going to start another game where no matter how hard you try you still end up losing.
 

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We do both desire to stay together and are struggling with how.

Well for you, staying together should mean establishing conditions for marital fidelity otherwise there is no relationship to speak of really. If she wants to be together, you'll quickly find out if she's willing and capable of adhering to your imposed conditions for proceeding forward with her. It's two ways. You have to set the conditions and she has to agree. If she can't agree to you doing the work and actions that will enable you to build trust , then she has no respect for you or the marriage. Her agreeing to conditions will allow you to see what you have to work with. Nothing threatens a relationship more than one of the spouses allowing a 3rd person to join it.

If she really wishes to stay together she'll gladly adhere to conditions to restore your trust and regain your respect for her as a devoted wife. If not, her actions will not match her words and you'll know you do not have the pillars in place for a real relationship. It's all about the actions, not the promises. She has to agree to them and you have enforce them without compromise. Infidelity is a powerful force that can only be overcome with tenacity and conviction, because those in infidelity are tenacious in there efforts to sustain it, as both experience addiction like spells.
 

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I am at a point where I really don't care what she does, she just needs to decide or, I will make the decision for her. If made for her, she will lose everything.

You're already at the point of having to decide. She's not going to because she's having fun. Ever try to stop kids when they're playing so that you can leave or they have to start homework or something? Sometimes they don't stop to verbal commands, until you are impassioned and enforce consequences. Otherwise, they'll just keep playing. Adults are like this too.
 

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I can't believe she did this.



....This time I discovered activity on the adult sites and chatting.....


I am at a point where I really don't care what she does, she just needs to decide or, I will make the decision for her. If made for her, she will lose....



I just don't get any of this and am about to take a VERY hard line for her to shape up or get out.

I cut some of your post out so I wasn’t quoting all of it.

Can you explain what you mean by going to adult websites and chatting? You believe it to not be anything more than her talking about your porn addiction? Or am I misunderstanding?

It sounds like she is able to make compartmentalizations that allows her to be a a godly woman to 4 and 5 years olds and something else the rest of the time. That might explain why she is ok with having affairs and not be broken over it once the limerence is gone.
 

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I cut some of your post out so I wasn’t quoting all of it.

Can you explain what you mean by going to adult websites and chatting? You believe it to not be anything more than her talking about your porn addiction? Or am I misunderstanding?

It sounds like she is able to make compartmentalizations that allows her to be a a godly woman to 4 and 5 years olds and something else the rest of the time. That might explain why she is ok with having affairs and not be broken over it once the limerence is gone.
:iagree:

What type of "adult" sites are they? We don't need the URLs, but, in general, what are those sites intended for? Good or ill?
 
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