Talk About Marriage banner

101 - 120 of 121 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
Do you look her in the eye, hold her face, and say, "Don't give up on me?"

FYI:
AAMOF = as a matter of fact
AP = Affair Partner
ASAP = as soon as possible
b/c = because
BAK = back at keyboard
BBFN = bye bye for now
BBL = be back later
BBS = be back soon
BF = boyfriend or best friend
BFN = bye for now
BH = Betrayed Husband
BIL = brother-in-law
BK = back
BRB = be right back
BRBGGP = be right back gotta go potty
BS = Betrayed Spouse
BSC = Bat sh*t crazy
BTDT = been there, done that
BTW = by the way
BW = Betrayed Wife
CBTB = can’t believe the bulls***
CRAFT = can't remember a fricking thing
CRS = can't remember stuff (or use your imagination for S)
CSA = Childhood Sexual Abuse
CU = see you
CUL8R = see you later
CWIM = see what I mean
CYA = see ya
DB = dear boyfriend
DC = dear child
DD = dear daughter
D-Day = divorce day -or- affair Discovery Day
DF = dear fiancée
DG = dear girlfriend
DH = dear husband
DS = dear son
DSD = dear stepdaughter
DSS = dear stepson
DW = dear wife
EA = emotional affair
exH = ex husband
exW = ex wife
FIL = father-in-law
FOO = Family of Origin
FTR = for the record
FWH = former wayward husband
FWIW = for what it's worth
FWW = former wayward wife
FYI = for your information
GF = girlfriend
GMTA = great minds think alike
GNO = Girls Night Out
GP = general practitioner
GTG = got to go
HD = High drive (sexual)
HTH = HTH hope this helps
IBRB = I’ll be right back
IC = Individual counseling
IDK = I don't know
IIWY = if I were you
IIRC = if I recall correctly
ILYNILWYA = "I love you, not in love with you anymore."
IMHO = in my humble opinion
IMNSHO = in my not so humble opinion
IMO = in my opinion
ISSF = I’m so sexually frustrated
J/J = just joking
J/K = just kidding
KISA = Knight in Shining Armor
KWIM = know what I mean
LD = low drive (sexual drive)
LMAO = laughing my ass off
LOL = laughing out loud
LOL = laughing out loud
LOLROF = laughing out load, rolling on floor
LTNS = long time no see
MC = marriage counseling
MIL = mother-in-law
MLC = mid-life crisis
MYOB = mind your own business
NC = No Contact
NDE = near death experience
NE = any
NMS = not my style
NMSAA = not my style at all
NP = no problem
OM = other man
OMG = oh my gosh
ONS = one night stand
OP = original poster
OSF = opposite Sex Friends
OT = off topic
OTOH = on the other hand
OW = other woman
PA = physical affair
PA = (sometimes) passive aggressive
PIV = penis in vagina referring to "traditional" sex
PM = private message
POV = POV point of view
PP = previous poster
PUA = Pick Up Artist
ROF = rolling on floor
ROFL = rolling on floor laughing
ROFLMAO = rolling on floor laughing my a** off
ROFLOL = rolling on floor laughing out loud
ROTF = rolling on the floor
SAHD = stay-at-home dad
SAHM = stay-at-home mom
SAHP = stay-at-home parent
SEP = somebody else’s problem
SIL = sister-in-law
SNAFU = situation normal all fouled up
SO = significant other
SOL = sh** out of luck
SOS = same old stuff (or use you imagination)
STBX = soon to be ex
SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed
TAM = Talk About Marriage
T/J = thread jack
TIA = thanks in advance
TMI = too much information
TOM = the other man
TOW = the other woman
TTFN = tata for now
TTYL = talk to you later
UR = your or you're
VAR = voice activated recorder
W/E = whatever
WAH = work at home
WAW = Walk Away Wife
WB = welcome back
WH = Wayward Husband
WOH = work out of the home
WS = Wayward Spouse
WTG = way to go
WW = Wayward Wife
YW = your welcome
YMMV = your mileage (opinion) may vary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #102
Saying nice things doesn’t cancel being lazy, rude and abusive (not saying you were abusive). I just wanted to make it clear because a lot of men think that just because they are nice 90 % of the time , it excuses the other times when they’re abusive, childish, unreliable, lazy etc...

I hope it makes sense. I’ve had a long day!

I can understand that.

Insulting someone is absolutely unacceptable.

Let me ask you. Sometimes both sides can be unintentionally insulting. For example, maybe as far as a year ago I started to do more chores. I would vacuum, put away my clothes, wash the dishes, put them away, etc. For a while, I wasn't doing this stuff before she got home, so we would put the dishes away together. If I couldn't remember where something went -- which, yes, I can see how it would be annoying to tell me again -- she'd sometimes just get super frustrated and yell at me.

We are both people who don't like to address small things that build up into big things.

I have been getting better at it because of my career, especially in a manager role.

But we were not good at this at home.

What would have been a better way to approach an unintentional insult with her that could have immediately addressed that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #103
I just do not understand why you helping her divorce you? Do you think she is going to change her mind before hand?

I read your thread and it appears she is mollifying you for the time being while expediting the divorce as quickly as possible, She even has you doing the leg work.

She does not require your help, assistance or permission in divorcing you. She can and could divorce you with or without your cooperation.

She wants the divorce, You want a second chance I think. So why are you helping her? I can understand cooperating to a point as in keeping costs down but actively helping her?
She asked for my help to read all the instructions and make sure she was filling out the forms right.

I mean, it does not feel good when I do it. At the same time, sitting down and doing that has been a great opportunity to talk about things that I feel will help me grow.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,883 Posts
She asked for my help to read all the instructions and make sure she was filling out the forms right.

I mean, it does not feel good when I do it. At the same time, sitting down and doing that has been a great opportunity to talk about things that I feel will help me grow.
So for in exchange for holding her hand filling out documents while she fires you as her husband you get the privilege of listening to her explain and elaborate why you sucked as a husband?

You think that will make you 'grow' as a better person?

Is it possible she is a lousy wife? That everything that comes out of her mouth is crap which you have accepted as normal as you hold her up so high on a pedestal.

Sorry but asking for your help to divorce you is actually insulting and cruel. Makes me actually wonder just what were the dynamics of your marriage. You have her on this pedestal as a long suffering wife who has to leave you as you were a intolerable miserable husband

But she yells at you for silly things and more. Then asks for your help in filling out documents so she does not wastes her time in filling in error so she can be out of the marriage quicker.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,883 Posts
You stated the following at the beginning of the thread:

"she's changing and wants to try things out on her own, and that she can't trust me and wait any longer."

How about she can try divorcing you on her own and taking some responsibility for her own marriage? She should own that 'change' to start.

Seems she wants out because she can't trust you but trusts you enough to fill out the papers and use your own time to deal with the courthouse tomorrow.

Dude, seriously. Stop being a doormat. She wants out, she wants a change, she does not 'trust' you?

Then she can act like a grown responsible adult and seek advice from those she trusts (like the guy I think she has on the side) and do her own leg work and make her own mistakes and waste her own time and pay for it.

Like the rest of us. That's what grown responsible adults do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #107
So for in exchange for holding her hand filling out documents while she fires you as her husband you get the privilege of listening to her explain and elaborate why you sucked as a husband?

You think that will make you 'grow' as a better person?

Is it possible she is a lousy wife? That everything that comes out of her mouth is crap which you have accepted as normal as you hold her up so high on a pedestal.

Sorry but asking for your help to divorce you is actually insulting and cruel. Makes me actually wonder just what were the dynamics of your marriage. You have her on this pedestal as a long suffering wife who has to leave you as you were a intolerable miserable husband

But she yells at you for silly things and more. Then asks for your help in filling out documents so she does not wastes her time in filling in error so she can be out of the marriage quicker.
She definitely was not always nice.

That being said, don't give me too much credit. Everything I've said so far is true and objective.

She has faults, I have faults.

But I can't focus on her faults. I pretty much accept the divorce, although I don't know if it's because we're still in a sort of limbo or because I am truly coming to terms with it. I figure, whatever her status as a wife is, I need to clean my own house before I can judge another's. And she is really the only person who can really tell me how I made her feel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,482 Posts
Go through house with a fine tooth comb. Look for new underwear you have never seen her wear. Gifts you didn’t buy. A burner phone etc. If she doesn’t go out much or get home late or leave early it could be a workplace affair.

Has she responded to you new actions and PS4 dump?

If you want to know how she really feels you can put a Sony voice activated recorder in her car securely velcroed under the seat. Cheaters like to talk in the car as a safe zone. They will also talk to friends about what is going on and Google how to track your router. You may also want to gps her car.
Have you done any of this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,482 Posts
The more you post it simply doesn’t sound like the two of you are that much different. As a matter of fact it sounds like she can also get aggravated and dish it out.

Did you say she goes out without you or not?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,925 Posts
Assuming she's not cheating, and she's telling the truth about why she locked the phone (ie. conversations regarding divorce)......then the conversations are filled with lies. She's rewriting history with her friends and family, so that she'll be viewed as the innocent one. It's taken a few pages and some introspective posts from you, but Chaparrel is right, you guys are similar. It's not easy for a woman to say to her Mom that she's equally to blame for the problems and she's just giving up while the guy tries everything in his power to save the marriage.

Anyway, that's if she isn't cheating. I make no assumptions regarding that, except to say, there's a fellow here, Bobert, who also couldn't fathom his wife cheating....she was just a little bit ''distant''. He got offended by even the mere suggestion of the accusation.........except the signs.....the red flags,......the odd behaviour. His life imploded in unimaginable ways when he scratched the surface. I'm not saying your wife is Bobert's wife. I'm saying anyone is capable of anything.

I suspect your wife is having an "Eat, Pray, Love Under the Tuscan Sun" type episode. Frivorcing (frivolous divorce) at her age is not a good move. The stats aren't kind to women like this. You'll be fine, most likely, but years from now she'll deeply regret it.

Watch some MGTOW vids on youtube, become familiar with the real male/female dynamic (you seem naive), better yourself, work out. I believe it's possible to improve, you've shown that, whether she deserves the new you is another question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
I will try to raise my awareness and see if I can discover truth there.

Regarding the emotional abuse, yes I did belittle her. I have called her stupid. I am a reader and a very intellectual person and I get frustrated easily when people "aren't at my level," whatever that means. I've been working on my arrogance there. (Edit: Also, this isn't like an every day thing. I can count the number of times I've said it on my hands, which doesn't make it okay. We talked every day. Texted each other, chatted each other. There was more positive talk than negative. I didn't come home, stonewall her, and call her stupid on the fly.)

I also let her iron my clothes, wash them, clean the house (we did get someone to come every two weeks), walk the dog, clean the windows, tile the floor (I helped break up the old tile and clear the way, but once the tiling started she did most of the work), etc. (Edit: To clarify this poorly written paragraph. I didn't gift these things to her. I let her do it while I didn't do anything, I let her take responsibility I should have owned up to. I don't mean to imply that these were good things.)

I have an addiction to video games. They consume me.

I got rid of my PS4. Since I did, I've been working out every day, doing things around the house, going out more with friends and co-workers. It was the best decision I've ever made, whether or not the marriage is saved.

I would play my ps4 while she worked.

And then I wouldn't even show my gratitude another way.

I've very introverted. It's hard for me to be vulnerable. When I try, I come off as fake because I hold back my emotion. When I show my emotion I go to 100. Not an excuse, just a challenge I accept and have to overcome and know that it has impacted my marriage negatively.

The reasons for the divorce are plain. And I understand her lack of trust.
No offense, but I don't see much reason for her to give you a second chance. Honestly, what value do you bring?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
Maybe this is the wrong question to ask, and if I may ask you, what to you would prove commitment? Like others have said, reversion is common. That is her main complaint, that I will revert. What would tell you that, at the very least, the probability of reversion is less?
If I were her, I would want to see you move out and, from ANOTHER HOUSE, spend the next 12 months proving that you are a different person. ONE 'stupid' comment and you'd never see my face again. You would be fixing the house, you would be putting as much effort into making MY life easier as she put into making yours easier all these years. And you would do it consistently for 12 months. And only then would I consider dating you again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
And it wasn't just me belittling her. It was me being in moods and being lost in my own world. Me suffering from anxiety but doing nothing to solve it despite her pushing me to.
Not to mention being OBSESSED with video games, as you said. As the wife of a man who 'lets' me do 99% of all the housework and almost never takes care of anything the house needs, I would be FURIOUS if he sat on a couch playing games while I took care of him after working a full-time job. It's bad enough that he won't help, but to be spending his time playing a game? Oh hell no.

What are you doing to address this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
The manly man thing and video games doesn't resonate with me because this isn't the 1970s.


My issue is not that I play video games and therefore am not a manly man, my issue is that I play video games and they consume me.
Again, you're missing the point. Maybe you think that when we see manly man, we mean some dude chugging beers and crushing them on his forehead. Manly man means you accept the role of leader of your marriage where its well-being trumps your own personal interests. A manly man marries, knowing his job is to put his wife first and hopes that she will do the same. He doesn't accept her doing the same and then stop doing his half just because she lets him.

Your issue isn't that your video games consume you. Your issue is that you let your wife assume the role of your mommy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
I can understand that.

Insulting someone is absolutely unacceptable.

Let me ask you. Sometimes both sides can be unintentionally insulting. For example, maybe as far as a year ago I started to do more chores. I would vacuum, put away my clothes, wash the dishes, put them away, etc. For a while, I wasn't doing this stuff before she got home, so we would put the dishes away together. If I couldn't remember where something went -- which, yes, I can see how it would be annoying to tell me again -- she'd sometimes just get super frustrated and yell at me.

We are both people who don't like to address small things that build up into big things.

I have been getting better at it because of my career, especially in a manager role.

But we were not good at this at home.

What would have been a better way to approach an unintentional insult with her that could have immediately addressed that?
IME, the best way to address such things is with humor. "Honey, I'm happy to drink soup out of a coffee cup, so I have a hard time even remembering we HAVE bowls, let alone where to put them! Have patience with me, ok?!" Getting both of you to laugh at something puts you both on the same team. I think she'd enjoy some laughter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
Sorry for the onslaught, just found this thread. Anyway, here's my take. She still loves you, she's just fed up being your mom. She's fed up with you not desiring her enough sexually to pursue her; 35%? Ye gads. She's fed up being taken for granted. Unless she's cheating or has her eye on someone else, she just doesn't see benefit to staying with you. So maybe she'll let you show her the benefits.

First assignment: read the book His Needs Her Needs. It will explain a LOT.

One of the main takeaways from the book is what I like to call the Love Bucket. You start out in love with each other. Her love bucket is full to the brim of the loving things you did for her when you were dating; she was happy. Then you forgot her birthday (just an example); it poked a little hole in that bucket of hers, and a little of the love she felt for you leaked out the hole. Then you called her stupid in anger; another hole, more leakage. Not filled to the brim anymore. Then you found video games and, instead of being present with her and loving on her and ravishing her in bed, your new 'honey' was your computer - you were no longer FILLING her bucket with loving. And at the same time, that video habit poked a HUGE HOLE, not just a tiny one, in her love bucket. Now love is flowing out of the bucket faster than it can be refilled - if you were even trying to fill it.

By the time a woman calls it quits, that bucket is damn near empty. She's put up with a lot, asked, complained, suffered, until there's just nothing to love anymore.

Can it be repaired? Possibly. But those holes are gonna take a hell of a lot of putty to get plugged (your newfound knowledge and actions), let alone let the bucket get filled again. Now, if she keeps that bucket around and lets you near it, you just might be able to make some adjustments, might let a little bit of love get poured back in. Or she may just throw it away and leave. Not up to you. But that shouldn't stop you from trying, if you really love her. And, very often, that's what the woman's waiting for - to see if you DO try.

Anyway, read HNHN, it will make much more sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #117
The more you post it simply doesn’t sound like the two of you are that much different. As a matter of fact it sounds like she can also get aggravated and dish it out.

Did you say she goes out without you or not?
Occasionally. She tells me where and with who, usually, and will talk about it when she gets home.

She has always been getting home before I go to sleep.

We spent Saturday together. The next day she went to hang out with a couple that we both used to hang out with but cut ties with me (which is okay).

This is kind of weird to say, but we have started to have sex again.

It has not affected her decision to continue with the divorce.

If you don't mind, I'll keep my response all in one place.

Thank you for your thoughts. I do deeply appreciate them.

You ask, "Honestly, what value do you bring?"

I make a good income with good prospects to make even more. I make $80,000/yr. and have made $10,000/yr. increases every year. Every employer I have ever had has said they would hire me back, just send them an email. This includes, ironically, one of the biggest gurus on love and relationships.

I love her unquestioningly. I have not shown it and I realize that, and I am doing everything I can to prove that I do. Even if it's too late, I still am compelled to show it.

I share the same home and family values. We have bought a house together. We have the same tastes, the same ideas.

I know this isn't enough, but I satisfy her sexually. I'm not like a master but there must be some sort of connection between us because I satisfy her in the complete sense and I have always been very cognizant of making sure I did.

You asked, "What are you doing to address this?"

Since she asked for divorce, I have:

- Worked out every day.
- Joined an over 30 soccer league.
- Done my laundry and hers (she reciprocates), folded my laundry and hers, ironed my clothes.
- Threw out my video games. Every single one of them. Sold my consoles.
- She had ADHD and was cleaning the cabinets out of boredom, so I stopped what I was doing and helped her clean them. She got tired and said we'd finish the cabinets another day. I finished them myself before she came home from work.
- Any spill, any mess I made, I clean. Not in a haphazard way, but completely.
- I cook my own meals, prepare my own lunches.
- I cook for her. I am from Spain, so I made paella. I am making paella again for Valentine's Day. I'm learning new recipes, both so I know how to treat myself well if I must live single and to treat her if I, by some miracle, am lucky enough for her to give me a last chance.
- I go out and weed the yard, keep it well kept (putatively, to make sure we can sell the house at the highest possible market price).
- See a therapist.
- Take care of the dog, feed her and walk her.
- Made list of everything she loves and have already prepared ideas for things we can do together that connect with both her and myself.
- I find a way each and every day to express and communicate my love and intentions. Even if it doesn't do anything in the end, it is teaching me to be more expressive and open about my love, allowing me to focus my energy on doing good rather than doing bad.
- I make the bed every single day and fold her pajamas by her pillow.
- I make sure to constantly be AWARE of things that need to be done. I work hard not to be asked, but rather anticipate.

I do love her.

I might be stupid and naive, but I truly believe she is my soul mate.

I showed it for a long time and when I was 27 I bought a console and lost sight of it.

Whether she takes me back or not, I'm happy doing these things. I have hope and maybe I'll get crushed. It's okay, I'll survive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39,733 Posts
Nice list. I didn't see anything on there about you asking her what would make HER happy. Are you going to therapy WITH her so she can tell the MC what's wrong and you can hear it? Have you asked her about her goals in life and discussed whether you're aiding her in achieving them? I ask because she talks like she wants to 'try on' being an adult on her own.

That's actually pretty common for a woman to reach that point in mid 20s-mid 30s. They go from dad to husband and are continuing to mature and form her own opinions and belief in her own ability (not needing a man to take care of her); many such women start to feel stifled and held back. I'm going to guess that she might want some opportunities to do more adultlike things, feel like she's capable and doesn't need your oversight or opinion. Sometimes I recommend letting the woman plan the next vacation all on her own. Things like that.

Other thought - rather than you anticipating what she MIGHT like you to do, better to ask her her thoughts on that. Become a team again, not a KISA. That's just as bad as a couch potato.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,482 Posts
Well, you have gone over board it sounds like. That’s called the pick me dance and it has never been successful for anyone here.

If I am understanding you, it sounds like you are doing much more than her around the house. This makes you look like the butler, maid, and cook. That’s not attractive either.

Did you read any of the books?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #120
Nice list. I didn't see anything on there about you asking her what would make HER happy. Are you going to therapy WITH her so she can tell the MC what's wrong and you can hear it? Have you asked her about her goals in life and discussed whether you're aiding her in achieving them? I ask because she talks like she wants to 'try on' being an adult on her own.

That's actually pretty common for a woman to reach that point in mid 20s-mid 30s. They go from dad to husband and are continuing to mature and form her own opinions and belief in her own ability (not needing a man to take care of her); many such women start to feel stifled and held back. I'm going to guess that she might want some opportunities to do more adultlike things, feel like she's capable and doesn't need your oversight or opinion. Sometimes I recommend letting the woman plan the next vacation all on her own. Things like that.

Other thought - rather than you anticipating what she MIGHT like you to do, better to ask her her thoughts on that. Become a team again, not a KISA. That's just as bad as a couch potato.
I can see that.

We've talked a lot on what her issues with me are. I have tried to focus my efforts that way.

I don't force my opinion on her too much. She has a lot of liberty in doing what she likes. I've never asked her to cancel plans or anything like that.

When I see her in the kitchen or doing something in the house, I'll ask if there's anything she needs help with or anything I can do.

I make conversation and validate her, giving advice if she asks for it or I ask her if I can give my two cents.

Edit: She agreed to see a therapist with me, as well.
 
101 - 120 of 121 Posts
Top