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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone.

My wife recently asked for a divorce. We're going through the paperwork.

I'm joining to exhaust every possibility out there for salvaging a marriage that I think my wife has plenty of good reasons to end, and plenty of good reasons to keep, and to learn from others who are going through similar experiences.

Thank you.
 

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Look man, I hate to breat the bad news but there is a very common saying around these parts ....

When a woman is done.....she is done.

More than likely you could spend all your time and effort extending your pain....but outcome is usually the same.

Go read some of the topics here on the forum about guys that have tried this ..... these guys are in horrible shape. Do you want to do that to yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks everyone, it's great to meet you all.

No kids, so I suppose that's "fortunate."

We met in our last years of college, I was in a frat, she was in a sorority, we went hiking and hit it off and moved in 3 months later. 5 years after that, we got married and bought a house.

She still has all of our wedding photos up. We still live in the same house, sleep in the same bed, watch TV and work in the same rooms. I can't move out and pay half of a mortgage and rent. I let her know that if this is going to happen then the house has to be put on the market by March so that I can start thinking about moving out.

I'm not a physically violent or abusive person. I accept that I was emotionally abusive in not being there for her, letting her take on most of the responsibilities and never even making my gratitude known, never validating her feelings vs. giving my opinion on everything. She says that we're getting older (she's 28 and I'm 31), she's changing and wants to try things out on her own, and that she can't trust me and wait any longer.

Edit: Yes, we both work. We both have great careers and make similar amounts of money. We both had a great sex life up until the Friday she asked for divorce.

My grandfather, who's been through this 5 times, said that if it wasn't the money and it wasn't the sex, then it was my lack of emotional support.

I know that if I hold out that it will hurt at the end. Once we sell the house and move out, at that point the game changes quite a bit. Until then, I know I have the strength to be put my neck on the line and I'm pretty committed to not allowing her last memory of me be of a lazy *******. All the pain in the end, I feel, will be worth it if I know that at least I am trying to correct myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
check your phone bill
Unfortunately, with things like Snapchat, it's hard for me to get a gauge on whether there's someone else.

The day before she asked for divorce I finally confronted her about the new password on her phone and her defensiveness when I wanted to use it to browse the internet (because I didn't have mine on me or w/e). We had always known each other's passwords.

She told me the next day that she had passworded it because she was having conversations with friends and family about divorce and she didn't want me to see.

She brought it up again earlier this week because I had passworded my iPad and phone, and she reiterated that and said that she did after she thought I had read one of her snap chats. She had gotten one and it wasn't there.

I don't read her snap chats or messages or anything. Never have (doesn't mean I haven't manifested my jealousy in other ways, I definitely have). I have an OCD and habit of closing all active windows on a phone, so I probably closed her snap chat out of that OCD.

Edit: I also straight out asked her if there's someone else. She said no.
 

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I suggest 2 things simultaneously:

1.
I accept that I was emotionally abusive in not being there for her, letting her take on most of the responsibilities and never even making my gratitude known, never validating her feelings vs. giving my opinion on everything.
Tell us more about this. It could be "you didn't pay enough attention to me" or it could be "you badgered and belittled and ignored me until my soul was crushed." HOW would you say, specifically that you may have been emotionally abusive?

2.
Do some quiet snooping. If she DOES ever leave her phone unattended, look around it. Same with a computer or tablet. If things raise alarm bells, you might need to snoop closer.

It is highly possible for a woman to get fed up and leave with ZERO affair. It is also highly possible for a woman to make a big deal out of marriage problems as a smoke screen to hide an affair. NO ONE on this board knows which, and so pursuing both possibilities is smart. If she IS like many women who actually DO leave because they are fed up, then there may still be some things you can do to make YOU better, and she may stay if she notices consistency. Or, even if she doesn't, at least you have made yourself better for a future relationship.
 

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Since she wants the divorce, she is the one who gets to move out. DO NOT MOVE OUT! Don't be a doormat and let her call all the shots. If she says you should move out, say "I don't want a divorce. I want to work on the marriage and we need to be together to do that. If you want out, you can leave."

There are some red flags here that warrant looking into, but it also may not matter. It is very hard to rebuild a marriage if she has gotten to the point of wanting a divorce. Often the issues that led up to this point will return over and over in the future. Even if you fix things in the short term, the relationship forward will likely be rocky. But it's probably worth sitting down with her and asking what it would take for her to change her mind. Go to a few sessions of marriage counseling and see what issues come up. If she's totally against working on things, it's probably not worth trying to hard to change her mind.
 

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Unfortunately, with things like Snapchat, it's hard for me to get a gauge on whether there's someone else.

The day before she asked for divorce I finally confronted her about the new password on her phone and her defensiveness when I wanted to use it to browse the internet (because I didn't have mine on me or w/e). We had always known each other's passwords.

She told me the next day that she had passworded it because she was having conversations with friends and family about divorce and she didn't want me to see.

She brought it up again earlier this week because I had passworded my iPad and phone, and she reiterated that and said that she did after she thought I had read one of her snap chats. She had gotten one and it wasn't there.

I don't read her snap chats or messages or anything. Never have (doesn't mean I haven't manifested my jealousy in other ways, I definitely have). I have an OCD and habit of closing all active windows on a phone, so I probably closed her snap chat out of that OCD.

Edit: I also straight out asked her if there's someone else. She said no.
Phone defensiveness is a classic red flag. So is using it in the bathroom, keeping it under the pillow, etc.

So is blaming you for the breakdown of the marriage.

She might be having an affair, she might not. If she is having an affair she is probably not going to admit it to you outright. Just divorce you now and saying the marriage broke done then introduce the new beau when the coast is clear, claim the relationship started after you both separated.

Assuming you want to know what is really going on you need to play dumb and investigate extremely quietly but vigorously.

In my experience divorce demands 'out of the blue' usually imply some one else is involved.
 

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Since she wants the divorce, she is the one who gets to move out. DO NOT MOVE OUT! Don't be a doormat and let her call all the shots. If she says you should move out, say "I don't want a divorce. I want to work on the marriage and we need to be together to do that. If you want out, you can leave."
On the other hand - if you require her to move out, you will have to pay all the ongoing house expenses, deal with real estate agents.. My wife got it easy cause she rented an apartment and left the details up to me.


Or maybe its because I was a doormat :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Tell us more about this. It could be "you didn't pay enough attention to me" or it could be "you badgered and belittled and ignored me until my soul was crushed." HOW would you say, specifically that you may have been emotionally abusive?

2.
Do some quiet snooping. If she DOES ever leave her phone unattended, look around it. Same with a computer or tablet. If things raise alarm bells, you might need to snoop closer.

It is highly possible for a woman to get fed up and leave with ZERO affair. It is also highly possible for a woman to make a big deal out of marriage problems as a smoke screen to hide an affair. NO ONE on this board knows which, and so pursuing both possibilities is smart. If she IS like many women who actually DO leave because they are fed up, then there may still be some things you can do to make YOU better, and she may stay if she notices consistency. Or, even if she doesn't, at least you have made yourself better for a future relationship.
I will try to raise my awareness and see if I can discover truth there.

Regarding the emotional abuse, yes I did belittle her. I have called her stupid. I am a reader and a very intellectual person and I get frustrated easily when people "aren't at my level," whatever that means. I've been working on my arrogance there. (Edit: Also, this isn't like an every day thing. I can count the number of times I've said it on my hands, which doesn't make it okay. We talked every day. Texted each other, chatted each other. There was more positive talk than negative. I didn't come home, stonewall her, and call her stupid on the fly.)

I also let her iron my clothes, wash them, clean the house (we did get someone to come every two weeks), walk the dog, clean the windows, tile the floor (I helped break up the old tile and clear the way, but once the tiling started she did most of the work), etc. (Edit: To clarify this poorly written paragraph. I didn't gift these things to her. I let her do it while I didn't do anything, I let her take responsibility I should have owned up to. I don't mean to imply that these were good things.)

I have an addiction to video games. They consume me.

I got rid of my PS4. Since I did, I've been working out every day, doing things around the house, going out more with friends and co-workers. It was the best decision I've ever made, whether or not the marriage is saved.

I would play my ps4 while she worked.

And then I wouldn't even show my gratitude another way.

I've very introverted. It's hard for me to be vulnerable. When I try, I come off as fake because I hold back my emotion. When I show my emotion I go to 100. Not an excuse, just a challenge I accept and have to overcome and know that it has impacted my marriage negatively.

The reasons for the divorce are plain. And I understand her lack of trust.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Since she wants the divorce, she is the one who gets to move out. DO NOT MOVE OUT! Don't be a doormat and let her call all the shots. If she says you should move out, say "I don't want a divorce. I want to work on the marriage and we need to be together to do that. If you want out, you can leave."

There are some red flags here that warrant looking into, but it also may not matter. It is very hard to rebuild a marriage if she has gotten to the point of wanting a divorce. Often the issues that led up to this point will return over and over in the future. Even if you fix things in the short term, the relationship forward will likely be rocky. But it's probably worth sitting down with her and asking what it would take for her to change her mind. Go to a few sessions of marriage counseling and see what issues come up. If she's totally against working on things, it's probably not worth trying to hard to change her mind.
That's fair enough. I don't plan on moving out 'til the house is sold.

And yea, I feel you on "if she doesn't want to, it's not worth it to try hard." Been trying to get her to go to marriage counseling, but I get the feeling she's appeasing me vs. really wanting to do it, so I get that feeling and it makes me just want to say, "if you don't want to, let's not."

We do still hug every day. It's the only form of physical intimacy we have since she asked for divorce.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Phone defensiveness is a classic red flag. So is using it in the bathroom, keeping it under the pillow, etc.

So is blaming you for the breakdown of the marriage.

She might be having an affair, she might not. If she is having an affair she is probably not going to admit it to you outright. Just divorce you now and saying the marriage broke done then introduce the new beau when the coast is clear, claim the relationship started after you both separated.

Assuming you want to know what is really going on you need to play dumb and investigate extremely quietly but vigorously.

In my experience divorce demands 'out of the blue' usually imply some one else is involved.
That's fair enough, and others agree.

She's usually very honest with me. At the same time, she wouldn't want to hurt me and be honest that there's someone else.

She doesn't really take a lot of time away, that's one thing that makes me "hopeful." So far, she's pretty much always been home at the usual hour. Last night she was out 'til 9 but she told me she was going to a murder mystery thing with a gay friend that I know and used to live with us, I know he's gay and he's been a friend of her mother's for years and is older. Could have been with someone else for all I truly know, but she's usually been honest with me and she canceled the murder mystery on Saturday to do it yesterday and the story has always been consistent.

I guess it's not really worth going over it in a loop. It's just that the signals are....very mixed and sometimes hardline and sometimes ambiguous.
 

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She knew you when she married you, it's not like your personality was new to her.

She may be playing you, her "no emotional support" is one of the generic go to non reason reasons a W or gf in a ltr use when they have their own reasons they want to split.

It does sound like there's something else on her mind.

Best,
 

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Look man, I hate to breat the bad news but there is a very common saying around these parts ....

When a woman is done.....she is done.
That is very, very true. I've ended 2 serious relationships and it was not until I simply could NOT stay any longer. Once I made the decision that I was done, I was done.

It is highly possible for a woman to get fed up and leave with ZERO affair.
Yes, it's extremely possible. Speaking for myself, when dealing with a bad relationship, the very last thing on earth I am thinking about is a new man. Dealing with the one I have is too much work, why add in another? Not everyone is a cheater.

Regarding the emotional abuse, yes I did belittle her. I have called her stupid. I am a reader and a very intellectual person and I get frustrated easily when people "aren't at my level," whatever that means. I've been working on my arrogance there.

I also let her iron my clothes, wash them, clean the house (we did get someone to come every two weeks), walk the dog, clean the windows, tile the floor (I helped break up the old tile and clear the way, but once the tiling started she did most of the work), etc.

I have an addiction to video games. They consume me.

I got rid of my PS4. Since I did, I've been working out every day, doing things around the house, going out more with friends and co-workers. It was the best decision I've ever made, whether or not the marriage is saved.
Having been in a relationship where I was told how stupid I was and belittled constantly and my needs were always secondary I can tell you that it is not easy at all to live with that every day. It chips away at your sense of self worth. If you married this woman she must have had some good qualities beyond just doing your laundry and household chores. But over time she lost sight of that I'm sure and only felt worthless. I'm glad you are aware of it now and can hopefully take steps not to do it in the future. Not sure if it will save your marriage but it might help you with your next relationship.

I commend you for getting rid of the gaming system!!!!! Not easy for a gamer to do I'm sure.

She knew you when she married you, it's not like your personality was new to her.

She may be playing you, her "no emotional support" is one of the generic go to non reason reasons a W or gf in a ltr use when they have their own reasons they want to split.

Best,
Most people are on their best behavior in the beginning of a relationship. It's possible the belittling and disrespectful behavior didn't start until after the marriage or started so slowly she didn't really notice it until after they'd been married for a while. It often happens this way. Only OP and the wife know for sure.

As someone who has left this type of relationship I will tell you that it doesn't sound like she's cheating to me as much as it sounds like self preservation. She's realized that she has one life to live and she doesn't want to spend it being taken advantage of and being called stupid. That's no way to live.

I think it's great that you are finally stepping up and helping out but it might be a little to late. I hope not for your sake if you really are committed to changing and fixing things in your marriage. I wish you the best.
 

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I will try to raise my awareness and see if I can discover truth there.

Regarding the emotional abuse, yes I did belittle her. I have called her stupid. I am a reader and a very intellectual person and I get frustrated easily when people "aren't at my level," whatever that means. I've been working on my arrogance there.

I also let her iron my clothes, wash them, clean the house (we did get someone to come every two weeks), walk the dog, clean the windows, tile the floor (I helped break up the old tile and clear the way, but once the tiling started she did most of the work), etc.

I have an addiction to video games. They consume me.

I got rid of my PS4. Since I did, I've been working out every day, doing things around the house, going out more with friends and co-workers. It was the best decision I've ever made, whether or not the marriage is saved.

I would play my ps4 while she worked.

And then I wouldn't even show my gratitude another way.

I've very introverted. It's hard for me to be vulnerable. When I try, I come off as fake because I hold back my emotion. When I show my emotion I go to 100. Not an excuse, just a challenge I accept and have to overcome and know that it has impacted my marriage negatively.

The reasons for the divorce are plain. And I understand her lack of trust.
Okay, gotcha. Yes, some of these behaviors were bad, but it sounds like you are already working on cleaning up "your side of the street." Have you specifically apologized for these behaviors? If so, all you can do is be as loving as possible and keep up the changes.

After reading a few more of your posts, I think snooping is still wise. The whole guarding the phone thing is suspicious. I really think you need to be able to at least 99% rule out someone else in the picture. But don't ASK her - if she isn't cheating it'll exacerbate the issues, and if she IS, she will just lie anyway.
 

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Unfortunately, with things like Snapchat, it's hard for me to get a gauge on whether there's someone else.

The day before she asked for divorce I finally confronted her about the new password on her phone and her defensiveness when I wanted to use it to browse the internet (because I didn't have mine on me or w/e). We had always known each other's passwords.

She told me the next day that she had passworded it because she was having conversations with friends and family about divorce and she didn't want me to see.

She brought it up again earlier this week because I had passworded my iPad and phone, and she reiterated that and said that she did after she thought I had read one of her snap chats. She had gotten one and it wasn't there.

I don't read her snap chats or messages or anything. Never have (doesn't mean I haven't manifested my jealousy in other ways, I definitely have). I have an OCD and habit of closing all active windows on a phone, so I probably closed her snap chat out of that OCD.

Edit: I also straight out asked her if there's someone else. She said no.
OK, so let's say that you are the typical clueless dumb ass that a lot of men are. Let's just say for the sake of conversation.

Even if you are all those things above and more are true, you don't deserve her cheating on you. She could have divorced, like she is doing, she could have talked to you, or a hundred other things.

What you did not deserve was her cheating on you, and yes she is cheating on you. And it was probably an exit affair, and regardless she is done.

For you, you need to figure out all your mistakes, read all the self help books, and become a better person.

What you don't need, esp since you don't have kids is try to win her back, worst mistake you could ever make.

Grow up, become a better person and not so stupid and meet someone else.

This completely sounds like an exit affair, and since it probably is that, you need to let it go and move on...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Having been in a relationship where I was told how stupid I was and belittled constantly and my needs were always secondary I can tell you that it is not easy at all to live with that every day. It chips away at your sense of self worth. If you married this woman she must have had some good qualities beyond just doing your laundry and household chores. But over time she lost sight of that I'm sure and only felt worthless. I'm glad you are aware of it now and can hopefully take steps not to do it in the future. Not sure if it will save your marriage but it might help you with your next relationship.

I commend you for getting rid of the gaming system!!!!! Not easy for a gamer to do I'm sure.

She has amazing qualities. She's a talented graphic designer, beautiful, caring, happy, weird.

Those qualities that pertained to what she did for me were more so responsibilities I had surrendered and let her take of.

You are absolutely right and I'm sorry you had to experience that. And, regardless of other things that may be going on, even if there is another guy, I think the pain of that experience makes what she's doing right. Wouldn't any of us guys have left our wives if they did the same thing?

Maybe this is the wrong question to ask, and if I may ask you, what to you would prove commitment? Like others have said, reversion is common. That is her main complaint, that I will revert. What would tell you that, at the very least, the probability of reversion is less?
 
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