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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, the main holiday is past and my dd has a great b-day.
Tomorrow I will go to a hotel with WH, and have him read this the following letter: (it is not the final draft yet, nut I would really appreciate and tips, compliments, criticisms, advice, etc-basically what you all at TAM do)



Dear WS

It is with trepidation and a heavy heart that I write these words as I know that no matter how gently or diplomatically I try to word this it will still engender a torrent of negative emotions within you. Even in the throws of my own agony, the idea of hurting you is not something I relish.

I will begin by stating that I love you. I love how you please me when we have sex, I love that you provide for us, and I love that you have within you the capacity to be a kind, caring, attentive and generous human being. I believe deep down that that is who you really are, and that is why I am committed to work with you so that we may haver a stronger, healthier, and more honest relationship.

Sadly, much has happened since we met, fell in love, and got married. So much so, in fact, that I harbor some very serious concerns for the longevity of our marriage, despite my most optimistic hopes.

For many years I have been hearing lots of words. Words like 'I love you' and 'You are the only one I love', and ' I don't expect you to clean the house'.
The problem with all of these and the others left unmentioned, is that far too often the actions fail to meed the words.

Our poor choices last year hurt our marriage in many ways and I've had a lot of time to reflect on that whole cray situation, and why it still bothers me terribly.
I understand that you will no doubt NOT see this situation as I do. I am not expecting that. I am telling you how I feel about it and how I see it. This may help you understand where I am coming from; or it may piss you off and make you feel like walking away.

First-You found my partner for me( I didn't pick him.) Then you arranged for him to come here, and you encouraged me to pursue him, even going so far as to tell him that I was available since I was to insecure to approach him myself. If any of that had been left to me, it would not have happened. I realize that it did not go as you expected, mainly because I was so uneasy about it, and I do not think he was really all that attractive to him which fuels my insecurities. Ive already told you about the encounters and our mutual embarrassment and humiliation when he could not perform. He is a very self absorbed person, as you know, so the only talking when you were not home was pretty much about him. I cannot, then or now understand how you could bring another man in ti live with us and **** your wife and then get jealous and feel betrayed when he and I were hope alone together. What was I supposed to do?
You asked me not to **** him when you were at work, and I agreed. But then you just 'happened' to be recording the house and claim that you 'accidentally' caught me having sex with him at odd times of day and night.
You let me hear these recordings, and I listened intently because if I had done that I had no memory of it and found that thought disturbing. But there was nothing there, except maybe him snoring and talking in his sleep.
I know that to this day you swear you heard it and that I am an unfaithful liar. So I am going to take my copy to therapy and have a 3rd party try to hear these mysterious trysts that I supposedly had with the man you brought into our house to **** me. Can you begin to understand why your behavior there was a complete betrayal of me and I wish everyday that I had not been naive and insecure enough to go a long with it? I may have lost some of my self respect, but not because I operated outside the lines of our agreement. I am still curious to know what evidence you require to know without a shadow of a doubt that I did not do what you have accused and so harshly judged me.
Then we get to the next part where YOU got to select YOUR partner- someone you knew, had history with, and had feelings for. Then not only did you pursue her sexually-you flat out violated every boundary and agreement we had by not wearing a condom (showing incredible disrespect for me and endangering me) and then by pursuing an emotional relationship, (an affair, cheating, betrayal)something that had been expressly forbidden from the beginning! Then to add insult to injury, you refused to take responsibility for your betrayal and only cared about how she would feel. It took a nasty confrontation between her and I for it to stop.
-
You gave me such a tremendous amount of grief (repeatedly stating how you no longer trusted me, that you have detached yourself from me, and other such similar, and equally hurtful expressions) over a non existent scenario. Then u turn right around and belittle, minimize, and refuse to even acknowledge my feelings in regard to your infidelity or empathize with me for the very real pain you have caused. Imagine for a moment how that must have felt for me: I felt that I followed the rules in a situation you set up and had almost all of the control over, then you break the rules in about a million pieces, and somehow I am the bad guy? Not worthy of trust or consideration? Then the night it all caught up with me and I had that emotional breakdown and said I needed you, where did I find you? On the phone, comforting another female friend.
And to top it off, you got angry and defensive when I pointed it out.
No remorse, no empathy, no humility, no love.
You betrayed and abandoned me in some of the most hurtful ways imaginable and the only people whose feeling you were tender with were yours and some other friends. How would you see this and feel about it if this was one of our daughters and their SO? Do u hope they marry a man like you?
Ultimately It feels to me that you orchestrated the entire scenario to JUSTIFY your desire to cheat, and to abdicate any sense of guilt you may have had about that desire and to sour any respect you had for me so you could continue to pursue other affairs (emotional or physical) in the future. Do u even have any guilt or remorse for bringing him into our home and handing your wife over to him? Then accusing me of doing the very thing you had handed me over to him to do? Even when you know I would have no reason to with hold the truth from you?

I do not feel like the person in this relationship who has a fidelity, honesty, and integrity problems. As soon as I understood that something I was doing was hurting you, I stopped. I did not carry on until you were forced to take action to end it. I did it willingly, gladly, and voluntarily..
You have done exactly the opposite. You broke every rule, request, and desire I had of you until I finally terminated it. You were so concerned about her feelings even as you shouted and betrayed me. But again, that wasn't YOUR fault at all, was it.? No, again, it was me 'not leaving you alone'.

Then, when our fragile relationship needed some extra TLC, you went ahead and did the very thing I asked you not to do with someone else. I had to put a stop to that and instead of any remorse, apology, compassion, or empathy, I got anger, defensiveness, contempt, gas-lighting, and derision. You pushed me down emotionally and then kicked me in the teeth for good measure. All while saying 'I love you!'. Then you turned around and did it again, and again.

my mistake: allowing myself to be handed over to your friend. Not having enough self respect to demand my own choice of partner or not saying 'no' to the entire thing to begin with.
For letting you get away with accusing me of being disloyal and dishonest when I certainly was not.


What should have happened since all of that was extra work and attention to our relationship, not extra time cultivating inappropriate relationships with other women that only further damage trust and communication. Your adamant refusal to do this, your denial, and your blatant insensitivity to my feelings have only served to show me how little I mean to you. You say the words, but your actions show me the exact opposite.

I have tried to talk to you about this as cheating before to no avail. So, for the record, these are things you have done/are doing that most people on planet earth consider to be some form of infidelity:

-the emotional intimacy that u r sharing with these women is not ok with me.
-the sexual banter is not okay with me
-the time spent meeting these women's emotional needs is not ok with me
-deleting comments and conversations that u know I wouldn't like is not ok with me
-sharing information about me and our relationship is not okay with me
-Taking time away from me and giving out your emotional availability to anyone BUT me
--How can you deny an emotional affair when the woman you were having it with was afraid for her husband to see the chat logs?
-why have I been the one that has had to confront 2 women to get them to end things with you? You have not voluntarily ended one yet.
--As soon as I put a stop to one affair, you go right out and strike up a new one with a different chic. I'm done with that
Your denial of the severity of this situation is a huge part of why it is so very devastating to me. Reading those chats HURT me. If you truly love me, then why would you insist on doing something that hurts me?
Your mouth says 'I love you' but your actions say '**** you, you are worthless to me and I no longer give two shots about your feelings.'


Do you really not realize that Every second you spend flirting, sex talking, and tending to the emotional needs of other women and having them do the same for you is a second you have stolen from your marriage? As the seconds add up to minutes, the minutes to hours, and hours to days, our relationship
atrophies.
As it atrophies I lose the confidence in your love and devotion that I need to be intimate with you in anyway.
You say that I want you to not be you. Except you didn't used to be this way. You didn't used to devote this much time to other women

WH, I love you, so very much and hope that you will wake up to the fact that what you have done/are doing is breaking my heart.
You say that you fell in love with me the first day that you met me and have loved me ever since.
I loved the way you showed me this in your actions for a long time.
Now all I experience from you are the words. The actions that let me know you mean it have faded till now the actions that you do show, show me exactly the opposite of what comes out of your mouth. You have become demanding and critical more often than not, and save your emotional support, kindness, compassion, and empathetic listening ear (what made me fall in love with you) for any other woman but me. You have shown me on more than on occasion that you would rather be there for other woman than you would for me. These betrayals have wounded me deeply and shown me that I am no longer the most important thing in your life. Far too often I feel like you have mentally and emotionally checked out of our relationship.
I no longer feel like your confidant or your best friend. I just feel like another one of your female friends that is privy only to a fraction of your heart and mind.
When I read what you say to them, all kind, complementing, reassuring...and then hear and experience what you say and how you act toward me...I wonder why you are even with me.
Free childcare? Sex? Someone to manage all the affairs of your life so u just have to go to work, come home, get drunk, and check-out of your real life and into these flattering WH-worshiping women's lives?
I'm sure you would say that I have it all wrong, that you have done nothing wrong. Then why lock up your computer? Because I take things wrong?

You have told other women that you have learned not to get attached and that you don't trust anyone, including me. So have you checked out of this marriage? Do u want me to set you free? You can be with me 100%, or you can go and see what happens with these other women. But you can not do both. Yes, I am saying it is them or me.
You got along just fine without your former flames and **** buddies for the better part of our marriage. Why do you suddenly need them in your life so badly now?

Am I that horrible to interact with? Not good enough company? Do u really think getting your needs met outside our marriage, when you know it hurts me makes us stronger? Do u even want to be with me? Or do you want to get needs met by ppl that don't require much back from you? (Except maybe your self respect and your 15 yr marriage, but you have managed to delude yourself into thinking that denials and deleting msg logs will somehow save both.) You really do think I am stupid, or have lost all respect for me. Or maybe both because I have put up with this **** and allowed you to get comfortable treating me this way.

How this has Affected me:
I no longer feel like I am special or unique to you. More often then not, I merely feel tolerated. I don't feel like you have any desire to do any work on, take any time, make any changes, or make any meaningful sacrifices to work on our marriage.
When you call me 'Beautiful', I wonder how many other women you have called that. It is for this reason that I changed my name on your phone. My name, Lily, is more unique and special than 'beautiful', a word u use for whomever you are interested in at the moment.

You say you love me and me alone. Yet you minimize, justify and criticize my anxieties about your fidelity and give no thought to how badly it hurt me to see you so easily fall for another woman. That is not a blow one just 'gets over', and you have done absolutely nothing to help me heal. In fact, you have done the exact opposite.
How can you expect me not to be afraid, mistrustful, and upset when I watched you readily become emotionally involved with another woman over such a short amount of time?
And yet, you flippantly and angrily abdicate any responsibility by saying she sucked u in. So explain this to me: how can you expect me to NOT feel anxious, fearful and mistrustful at the possibility that you may be'sucked in' again, as easily as it happened before? How do I know that you just aren't working harder to hide and deny that it is already happening? How do I really know that you DON'T want it to happen? How can you be so insensitive to suggest that I have nothing to worry about when clearly your history would suggest otherwise? Why would you continue in behaviors that cause me so much distress? Do you really care that much more for them and yourself than you do for me? Are these 'friendships' really worth more to you than our marriage and family?

Please be honest in your answer. I am tired of placating platitudes and words. If I really am that low on your list then I deserve to know asap so I can be free to find someone who does put me first.



So here we are, at a crossroads. This coming year will either be the end of us, or a new beginning. The status quo is not working, and it hasn't been for a very long time.
So now for the hard part. This is what I must have from you:


-I want you to delete and block all your female FB friends.

-I want you to send a message to OW and POW (and whomever else you may be having boundary crossing conversations with) admitting that your convos are inappropriate and that you will no longer contact them and that they may no longer contact you in anyway, ever.

--you must be 100% transparent with me. No more hiding and deleting chats. I want the user names and passwords to all email addresses and social networking sites, and your phone. Everything.

-I want you to read the book, 'Not Just Friends' within a reasonable period of time.

-I want you to attend marriage counseling with me for 3 months (12 sessions). After that we will re-evaluate our progress and see where we go from there.

-I want you to attend individual counseling to address your alcoholism and other issues. You can choose the therapist.

-Stop saying that you love me. Just show me. I want love to be a meaningful verb, not a worthless noun.

-most of all, I want you to commit to doing the hard work that is going to be necessary to repair your portion of the damage in our marriage.


I understand that the very idea of admitting any sort of culpability for anything, let alone taking actions to remedy it, is abhorrent to you. I need you to truly consider the consequences if you persist in this denial, obfuscation, and blame shifting and need you to try and see this from my perspective: Would you feel good about your daughters marrying a man who treated her the way you have treated me? -
What is wrong with your memory that you so readily forget huge chunks of history? And why is it that these missing chunks of history always seem to paint you in the most favorable of lights? I am curious, then, if you even remember your rage and violence, or has that yo gone into the black hole file in your brain titled 'Non Flattering Memories of my Behavior'

What I am going to do/am doing:

-I have scheduled an appointment for a therapist on the 7th. There I will get the help I need to deal with this and other things.
I am also aware that I had a part to play in all of this mess and I am willing and committed to face that reality and make the changes needed to be a better, and healthier wife, mother, and human being.


I don't want to end our marriage, WH, just understand that I am also not willing to endure the pain, humiliation, neglect, and betrayal of your repeated emotional affairs indefinitely.

If you do decide that our marriage is no longer worth any of your time and trouble then I propose that we begin an in home separation where DD moves into the Master bedroom with me and we re-convert her room to a guest room for you. We can maintain this arrangement until we can afford for you to get your own permanent living arrangements
 

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Well, the main holiday is past and my dd has a great b-day.
Tomorrow I will go to a hotel with WH, and have him read this the following letter: (it is not the final draft yet, nut I would really appreciate and tips, compliments, criticisms, advice, etc-basically what you all at TAM do)

First, redact your husband's name.

I saw something very similar to this on the Jeremy Kyle show. A man claimed he had Voice Activated Recordings of his wife's cheating on him.

But his wife denied this and said nothing was on the recording.

Jeremy Kyle looked at him and said: "How long have you been a heavy cannabis user?"

The man started with surprise and said: "How do you know about that?"

Jeremy Kyle said: "Because, my friend, if you do not stop using cannabis, your paranoia will destroy your relationship. Your wife is not cheating on you."

Does your husband use cannabis? Is this why he can hear sounds of infidelity that nobody else can hear?


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, the main holiday is past and my dd has a great b-day.
Tomorrow I will go to a hotel with WH, and have him read this the following letter: (it is not the final draft yet, nut I would really appreciate and tips, compliments, criticisms, advice, etc-basically what you all at TAM do)

First, redact your husband's name.

I saw something very similar to this on the Jeremy Kyle show. A man claimed he had Voice Activated Recordings of his wife's cheating on him.

But his wife denied this and said nothing was on the recording.

Jeremy Kyle looked at him and said: "How long have you been a heavy cannabis user?"

The man started with surprise and said: "How do you know about that?"

Jeremy Kyle said: "Because, my friend, if you do not stop using cannabis, your paranoia will destroy your relationship. Your wife is not cheating on you."

Does your husband use cannabis? Is this why he can hear sounds of infidelity that nobody else can hear?


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Yes he is. No way he would admit its not on there or that he smokes too much.
I've thought about putting it on YouTube and letting the world hear how crazy it is.
Proly won't though, unless he ever tries to use it as 'evidence' against me or something.
I even saved the notes be took while listening to them at work b/c he wrote down the time that he heard each 'event' so he can't go back and say I edited anything out.

He wanted to erase them once, but I told him I was saving a copy because that is the only evidence I have of my innocence.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, the main holiday is past and my dd has a great b-day.
Tomorrow I will go to a hotel with WH, and have him read this the following letter: (it is not the final draft yet, nut I would really appreciate and tips, compliments, criticisms, advice, etc-basically what you all at TAM do)

First, redact your husband's name.

Damn! I always miss those!
Not that it helps that the subject matter makes proof reading difficult.

I redacted the 2 that I saw. Did u see any others?
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Lily,
Its a hard story to hear.
Im going to let it set in for a bit.
Wow
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Writing it was no picnic either. :-\

Thank you for taking the time to read thru it all.
I really appreciate it.
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I cut a bunch out. It's still too long. He already knows what happened. Stick to what you need and the consequences.

Giving up a cheating lifestyle and alcohol at the same time. From what you wrote here, he seems a bit delusional. More than a bit delusional, actually.

I really can't relate to the open marriage type of situation that he seems to have pushed on you and he seems really attached to it. Now that he has it, I don't think he will give it up easily. I think you really have an uphill battle.

The in-house separation is a terrible idea. Don't call it that. Call it a divorce. If you're not willing to go that far, you have no chance of snapping him out of this. In-house separation it sounds like everything will still be the same, except he has to sleep in a different bed.

Dear WS

I do not feel like the person in this relationship who has a fidelity, honesty, and integrity problems. As soon as I understood that something I was doing was hurting you, I stopped. I did not carry on until you were forced to take action to end it. I did it willingly, gladly, and voluntarily. You have done exactly the opposite. You broke every rule, request, and desire I had of you until I finally terminated it.

My mistake: allowing myself to be handed over to your friend. Not having enough self respect to demand my own choice of partner or not saying 'no' to the entire thing to begin with.
For letting you get away with accusing me of being disloyal and dishonest when I certainly was not.

WH, I love you, so very much and hope that you will wake up to the fact that what you have done/are doing is breaking my heart. You say that you fell in love with me the first day that you met me and have loved me ever since. I loved the way you showed me this in your actions for a long time.

Now all I experience from you are the words. The actions that let me know you mean it have faded till now the actions that you do show, show me exactly the opposite of what comes out of your mouth. You have become demanding and critical more often than not, and save your emotional support, kindness, compassion, and empathetic listening ear (what made me fall in love with you) for any other woman but me. When I read what you say to them, all kind, complementing, reassuring...and then hear and experience what you say and how you act toward me...I wonder why you are even with me. Are these 'friendships' really worth more to you than our marriage and family? If I really am that low on your list then I deserve to know asap so I can be free to find someone who does put me first.

Would you feel good about your daughters marrying a man who treated her the way you have treated me?

So here we are, at a crossroads. This coming year will either be the end of us, or a new beginning. The status quo is not working, and it hasn't been for a very long time.

So now for the hard part. This is what I must have from you:

1. Delete and block all your female FB friends.

2. Send a message to OW and POW (and whomever else you may be having boundary crossing conversations with) that you will no longer contact them and that they may no longer contact you in anyway, ever.

3. Be 100% transparent with me. No more hiding and deleting chats. I want the user names and passwords to all email addresses and social networking sites, and your phone. Everything.

4. Read the book, 'Not Just Friends' within one week.

5. Attend marriage counseling with me for 3 months (12 sessions).

6. Attend individual counseling to address your alcoholism and other issues.

What I am going to do/am doing:

1. I have scheduled an appointment for a therapist on the 7th. There I will get the help I need to deal with this and other things.

2. I am also aware that I had a part to play in all of this mess and I am willing and committed to face that reality and make the changes needed to be a better, and healthier wife, mother, and human being.

3. I don't want to end our marriage, WH, just understand that I am also not willing to endure the pain, humiliation, neglect, and betrayal of your repeated emotional affairs indefinitely.

4. I cannot control you, I can only control myself and what I am willing to accept and not willing to accept in a marriage. I am no longer willing to accept the way things have been. If you do not agree to my conditions, then I will file for divorce. I love you, I want to stay married to you and go through life with you, but I cannot do so at the price of my self-esteem. Our daughter and I deserve better.​
 

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So, your husband is a pot head.

He makes ridiculous suggestions to you, his wife, turns himself into a cuckold, finds he doesn't like the reality of this, blames you and has a severe drug-induced paranoia that makes him think you, his wife was cheating on him, to the point of hallucinating incidents of your cheating.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with the non-medical and recreational use of cannabis in any way at all, is there?:rolleyes:

His continued heavy use of cannabis is destroying his family. He needs to quit before he really does something bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I cut a bunch out. It's still too long. He already knows what happened. Stick to what you need and the consequences.

Giving up a cheating lifestyle and alcohol at the same time. From what you wrote here, he seems a bit delusional. More than a bit delusional, actually.

I really can't relate to the open marriage type of situation that he seems to have pushed on you and he seems really attached to it. Now that he has it, I don't think he will give it up easily. I think you really have an uphill battle.

The in-house separation is a terrible idea. Don't call it that. Call it a divorce. If you're not willing to go that far, you have no chance of snapping him out of this. In-house separation it sounds like everything will still be the same, except he has to sleep in a different bed.

Dear WS

I do not feel like the person in this relationship who has a fidelity, honesty, and integrity problems. As soon as I understood that something I was doing was hurting you, I stopped. I did not carry on until you were forced to take action to end it. I did it willingly, gladly, and voluntarily. You have done exactly the opposite. You broke every rule, request, and desire I had of you until I finally terminated it.

My mistake: allowing myself to be handed over to your friend. Not having enough self respect to demand my own choice of partner or not saying 'no' to the entire thing to begin with.
For letting you get away with accusing me of being disloyal and dishonest when I certainly was not.

WH, I love you, so very much and hope that you will wake up to the fact that what you have done/are doing is breaking my heart. You say that you fell in love with me the first day that you met me and have loved me ever since. I loved the way you showed me this in your actions for a long time.

Now all I experience from you are the words. The actions that let me know you mean it have faded till now the actions that you do show, show me exactly the opposite of what comes out of your mouth. You have become demanding and critical more often than not, and save your emotional support, kindness, compassion, and empathetic listening ear (what made me fall in love with you) for any other woman but me. When I read what you say to them, all kind, complementing, reassuring...and then hear and experience what you say and how you act toward me...I wonder why you are even with me. Are these 'friendships' really worth more to you than our marriage and family? If I really am that low on your list then I deserve to know asap so I can be free to find someone who does put me first.

Would you feel good about your daughters marrying a man who treated her the way you have treated me?

So here we are, at a crossroads. This coming year will either be the end of us, or a new beginning. The status quo is not working, and it hasn't been for a very long time.

So now for the hard part. This is what I must have from you:

1. Delete and block all your female FB friends.

2. Send a message to OW and POW (and whomever else you may be having boundary crossing conversations with) that you will no longer contact them and that they may no longer contact you in anyway, ever.

3. Be 100% transparent with me. No more hiding and deleting chats. I want the user names and passwords to all email addresses and social networking sites, and your phone. Everything.

4. Read the book, 'Not Just Friends' within one week.

5. Attend marriage counseling with me for 3 months (12 sessions).

6. Attend individual counseling to address your alcoholism and other issues.

What I am going to do/am doing:

1. I have scheduled an appointment for a therapist on the 7th. There I will get the help I need to deal with this and other things.

2. I am also aware that I had a part to play in all of this mess and I am willing and committed to face that reality and make the changes needed to be a better, and healthier wife, mother, and human being.

3. I don't want to end our marriage, WH, just understand that I am also not willing to endure the pain, humiliation, neglect, and betrayal of your repeated emotional affairs indefinitely.

4. I cannot control you, I can only control myself and what I am willing to accept and not willing to accept in a marriage. I am no longer willing to accept the way things have been. If you do not agree to my conditions, then I will file for divorce. I love you, I want to stay married to you and go through life with you, but I cannot do so at the price of my self-esteem. Our daughter and I deserve better.​
Thank you.
I agree that it is too long. So much has been left unsaid for so long that it was hard to stop once I got started. I am realizing that a lot of it was for me to vent out instead of for him. What he actually needs to hear is more like what you wrote.
Thank you for your help with this. It is invaluable.
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