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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Most of you know my story. A week ago my wife contacted me via email to ask if I was still in a hurry to file the divorce. (since she is the one who left I told her to she needed to pay).

She said she didn't know if she could afford it until February. I told her I didn't really care because I was seeing someone else and they had no problem with me being seperated.

That's when everything changed.. she called my cell phone within 15 minutes of my email.. During the course of the conversation she wanted to know all these details about the new girl..

Then she started crying saying she was jealous of me because I was able to move on 'physically' and she wasn't. I asked her if she was crying and she tried to play it off, but it was obvious.

I asked her what she wanted. She tried to give vague answers. So I blunted asked, " Do you want to work this out." She finally said yes and asked if we could meet afterwork.

We met and she explained that when I told her I was seeing someone else her walls came down and a rush of emotions overcame her.

I told her that my impression was that it hit her that I was about to ride off into the sunset and the guy you love was about to leave your life forever. She agreed... I told her I believed that she was only trying to work it out so she could 'reclaim' her territory. She agreed.. (as I have explained in previous posts, she is very stubborn, jealous, insecure, etc)

She said she tried to date other guys during our seperation and was always comparing them to me and was trying to find another one of me... and she can't.

Anyway, as you know she always runs to her xh for emotional support.. he wants her back desperately and even offered her half his house if she would move back in. She told me she can't do it because she doesn't love him and knows she would just be faking it.

I believe her because if she reallly did want him she would be with him, hands down.

I can tell she wants me, but we have so many issues we need to address in counseling it will be some time before we share a roof again.

She also asked me if I would forget about this other woman. I told her 'NO'. I told her that her x has always been in the background and even though she will do the NC with him for months on end and even sent him a letter, he is always there if she calls (they have been friends since for over 38 yrs.)

I told her that I am no longer going to be an island and that if she walks out again, that I will initiate contact with the OW and will not give this another chance. This may not be right, but I feel that turn about is fare play.

Anyway, here is what I need. It appears at this point I hold all the cards.. how do I keep the upper hand so she doesn't try to dominate me with her BPD/NPD personality traits.

She is scared to date because of the 2 guys she went out with 1 had ED and the other after 2 dates left a vulgar message on her cell that scared her..

She spent last weekend with me and she was more intimate than she has ever been in the 3 years we have been together.

How do I keep the upper hand?
 

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Most of you know my story. A week ago my wife contacted me via email to ask if I was still in a hurry to file the divorce. (since she is the one who left I told her to she needed to pay).

She said she didn't know if she could afford it until February. I told her I didn't really care because I was seeing someone else and they had no problem with me being seperated.

That's when everything changed.. she called my cell phone within 15 minutes of my email.. During the course of the conversation she wanted to know all these details about the new girl..

Then she started crying saying she was jealous of me because I was able to move on 'physically' and she wasn't. I asked her if she was crying and she tried to play it off, but it was obvious.

I asked her what she wanted. She tried to give vague answers. So I blunted asked, " Do you want to work this out." She finally said yes and asked if we could meet afterwork.

We met and she explained that when I told her I was seeing someone else her walls came down and a rush of emotions overcame her.

I told her that my impression was that it hit her that I was about to ride off into the sunset and the guy you love was about to leave your life forever. She agreed... I told her I believed that she was only trying to work it out so she could 'reclaim' her territory. She agreed.. (as I have explained in previous posts, she is very stubborn, jealous, insecure, etc)

She said she tried to date other guys during our seperation and was always comparing them to me and was trying to find another one of me... and she can't.

Anyway, as you know she always runs to her xh for emotional support.. he wants her back desperately and even offered her half his house if she would move back in. She told me she can't do it because she doesn't love him and knows she would just be faking it.

I believe her because if she reallly did want him she would be with him, hands down.

I can tell she wants me, but we have so many issues we need to address in counseling it will be some time before we share a roof again.

She also asked me if I would forget about this other woman. I told her 'NO'. I told her that her x has always been in the background and even though she will do the NC with him for months on end and even sent him a letter, he is always there if she calls (they have been friends since for over 38 yrs.)

I told her that I am no longer going to be an island and that if she walks out again, that I will initiate contact with the OW and will not give this another chance. This may not be right, but I feel that turn about is fare play.

Anyway, here is what I need. It appears at this point I hold all the cards.. how do I keep the upper hand so she doesn't try to dominate me with her BPD/NPD personality traits.

She is scared to date because of the 2 guys she went out with 1 had ED and the other after 2 dates left a vulgar message on her cell that scared her..
A
She spent last weekend with me and she was more intimate than she has ever been in the 3 years we have been together.

How do I keep the upper hand?
You do some soul searching and identify what you are and are not OK with in terms of your relationship with her.

When you do. Share it with her in a calm, cool, and dispassionate way.

These are your boundaries.

Stick to them and she won't be able to steam roll you like she has in the past.

A word of caution. She will try to push you off your new center. Likely even more aggressively than before.

If you cave, you will be well on your way to door mat status once again.
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You do some soul searching and identify what you are and are not OK with in terms of your relationship with her.

When you do. Share it with her in a calm, cool, and dispassionate way.

These are your boundaries.

Stick to them and she won't be able to steam roll you like she has in the past.

A word of caution. She will try to push you off your new center. Likely even more aggressively than before.

If you cave, you will be well on your way to door mat status once again.
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Thanks Spun... good point about trying to push me off center. She did try something this weekedn to test my boundaries and I immediately addressed it and told her that what she did was no longer acceptable. She backed off immediately.
 

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Ahhh the old 'I don't want you but don't want anyone else to have you' ploy

She's already admitted wanting to 'reclaim her territory' (I mean why doesn't she just pee on you right?)

There is far too much dysfunction in this relationship for you to think about working it out in my opinion but it's up to you. What do you want? Do you really want her back? What about this other woman, how do you feel about her?
 

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Ostera,

I'm sorry but you have already given her the upper hand. Here's the issues I see that you have rased already:

1- she was jealous of me because I was able to move on 'physically' and she wasn't. - She wants you because she can't have you. This won't last once she has you back
2 - So I blunted asked, " Do you want to work this out." She finally said yes and asked if we could meet afterwork - She made YOU ask for this! She's manipulating you already!
3 - it hit her that I was about to ride off into the sunset and the guy you love was about to leave your life forever. She agreed. Again, she wants what she can't have now that her little make believe world hasn't turned out like she thought!
4 - I believed that she was only trying to work it out so she could 'reclaim' her territory. She agreed..
5 - she always runs to her xh for emotional support - With 38 years of history, I highly doubt this will change!
6 - She's BPD/NPD
7 - She is scared to date
8 - She spent last weekend with me and she was more intimate than she has ever been in the 3 years we have been together. So how long do you think this will last?

So really, all I see is negatives with this woman. You know what you've already seen with her and yet you want to ride this crazy ride AGAIN and toss aside a perfectly good new woman that you're attracted to?? Can I ask WHY?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ahhh the old 'I don't want you but don't want anyone else to have you' ploy

She's already admitted wanting to 'reclaim her territory' (I mean why doesn't she just pee on you right?)

There is far too much dysfunction in this relationship for you to think about working it out in my opinion but it's up to you. What do you want? Do you really want her back? What about this other woman, how do you feel about her?
The other woman is nice to me, is sexual, is attractive, gainfully employed, owns her own home, is attentive, etc.... however, I don't have that 'feeling' with her. I am not drawn to her like I am my wife.

You are mostly correct in your IDWUBIDWAOETHU. I think she liked the idea that is was just sitting there. When she found out I could potentially be gone she panicked.

When we met after work on the day of the emails she said she knew deep down she wanted me, but that she was trying to mask those feeiling by trying to find someone else..

She also said that she knew she didn't want the divorce or she would have filed back in September because she has the money. Which is true.. she could have afforded the divorce at anytime.. she kept postponing it... I know we have this connection that will last forever, even if we end up divorced... it's something I can't explain.

We do have a lot of dysfunction. We have a long way to go with counseling and learning to treat each other with more respect.

Do I really want her back? Actually, Yes. Why? It's hard to express the feelings I have when I am with her or think of her.. She isn't always off the hook.. We have great times and conversation. Which I have with this other woman.. but I don't feel the emotional connection with the OW...

Dolly, I appreciate your input... and I agree about the dysfunctional aspect of this. There are many things I didn't do right in this relationship also. Her kids are a big issue with sucking money out of her.. She has told me time and again to not get involved.

Blood it thicker than water and I lose in that arena every time.. I always try to defend her when the kids are taking advantage of her.. she doesn't want me to shield her from this.. so I need to learn not to care.. it's her money, let her do what she wants with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ostera,

I'm sorry but you have already given her the upper hand. Here's the issues I see that you have rased already:

1- she was jealous of me because I was able to move on 'physically' and she wasn't. - She wants you because she can't have you. This won't last once she has you back
2 - So I blunted asked, " Do you want to work this out." She finally said yes and asked if we could meet afterwork - She made YOU ask for this! She's manipulating you already!
3 - it hit her that I was about to ride off into the sunset and the guy you love was about to leave your life forever. She agreed. Again, she wants what she can't have now that her little make believe world hasn't turned out like she thought!
4 - I believed that she was only trying to work it out so she could 'reclaim' her territory. She agreed..
5 - she always runs to her xh for emotional support - With 38 years of history, I highly doubt this will change!
6 - She's BPD/NPD
7 - She is scared to date
8 - She spent last weekend with me and she was more intimate than she has ever been in the 3 years we have been together. So how long do you think this will last?

So really, all I see is negatives with this woman. You know what you've already seen with her and yet you want to ride this crazy ride AGAIN and toss aside a perfectly good new woman that you're attracted to?? Can I ask WHY?


Your points are valid and I am glad you pointed them out. I need an outsider to see these things.. however, regarding the OW,, that's the problem.. I am not 'emotionally' attracted to her. She is pretty on a physical level. But something is missing and it's not one of those 'maybe you could love her in time' things. It's just not there.

I will take your points listed above to heart.. you are right, regarding the working it out part.. she did say she wouldn't come out and say it because she knew that is what I wanted the here, even though that is what she wanted.. she did make me SAY it.. it's her classic stubborness.

She can't stand to show weakness. It makes her feel vulnerable, which she very much is.. Thanks for pointing these things out.

Like I said, I am going to attempt this knowing full well there is no guarantees... I need advice/observations like this above so I can see the manipulatons better.
 

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O,

I think the important issue here is that both Dolly and I (two people who don't know you and don't know each other outside of TAM) see very much the same issues here. Your WAW has TONS of issues and she only wants you back because you're with someone else now.

However, it seems that you want to look past all her issues because you love her. I get that but know that you're minimizing her issues like her controlling behavior but giving it a more "cutesy" name like "stubborness" does not change what it is.

I also wnated to point out a few other things from your responses:

"She also said that she knew she didn't want the divorce or she would have filed back in September because she has the money"

Could also be that she wanted to keep you as her back-up plan knowing how much you love her. Since her "new" life of dating and screwing other guys didn't work out, she wants to fall back into her old ways with someone (you) who will put up with her sh!t

Your step-kids will alsways be a huge source of conflict in your marriage. Remember this!

"She can't stand to show weakness. It makes her feel vulnerable"

Sorry but again I see this more as an aspect of her controlling nature

As for the other woman you're dating, I get that you haven't made an emotional connectio with her. You're obvious still carrying alot of baggage (and love) for your WAW. That's normal. What you have to remember is that there are tons of other women out there who would love to get with a guy like you and I'm sure that you'd connect with one or more of them if you give it a proper chance. You haven't healed from the gaping hole your WAW left in your heart when she left. That takes time.

Look, you remind me of my brother. He and his wife divorced only to get back together, have a kid, get remarried and divorce again. Someone once said to me (about them) that it was obvious that they loved each other, they just couldn't live together. Sounds like you two.

Another confusing aspect is that you say she didn't file because she didn't want to but earlier you said it was because she couldn't afford to until February. Which is it? Could it be that she's starting to realize the cost of divorce and living life on her own will cramp her style?

Sorry O but I think you're setting yourself up for more heartache with this one.

However, if your sure you want to entertain this whole scenario again, what I would suggest is a compromise. Divorce her, date her and see where it goes OR tell her that you'll consider NOT divorcing her if she'll take a polygraph and answer any questions you have that led up to her leaving. Personally, I think she's hiding a possible affair

Sorry to be so blunt but something seems off here.
 

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regarding the OW,, that's the problem.. I am not 'emotionally' attracted to her. She is pretty on a physical level. But something is missing and it's not one of those 'maybe you could love her in time' things. It's just not there.
Perhaps you are not emotionally attached to OW because you are still emotionally attached to your DS.

Step back and work on you. If DS wants you back... let her beg without you saying anything first. Then re-evaluate.
 

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"When we met after work on the day of the emails she said she knew deep down she wanted me, but that she was trying to mask those feeiling by trying to find someone else.."

I do not think this is true.she needs you now perhaps,she perhaps does not want you;

I might be wrong though;
 

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Just b/c you don't feel anything with the OW doesn't mean you need to jump right in and give your WW a chance!!

She saw you were moving on and can't stand it. Thats it. Thats the only reason she is begging you back. She wants you as plan B and saw you were moving on with your life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
O,

I think the important issue here is that both Dolly and I (two people who don't know you and don't know each other outside of TAM) see very much the same issues here. Your WAW has TONS of issues and she only wants you back because you're with someone else now.

However, it seems that you want to look past all her issues because you love her. I get that but know that you're minimizing her issues like her controlling behavior but giving it a more "cutesy" name like "stubborness" does not change what it is.

I also wnated to point out a few other things from your responses:

"She also said that she knew she didn't want the divorce or she would have filed back in September because she has the money"

Could also be that she wanted to keep you as her back-up plan knowing how much you love her. Since her "new" life of dating and screwing other guys didn't work out, she wants to fall back into her old ways with someone (you) who will put up with her sh!t

Your step-kids will alsways be a huge source of conflict in your marriage. Remember this!

"She can't stand to show weakness. It makes her feel vulnerable"

Sorry but again I see this more as an aspect of her controlling nature

As for the other woman you're dating, I get that you haven't made an emotional connectio with her. You're obvious still carrying alot of baggage (and love) for your WAW. That's normal. What you have to remember is that there are tons of other women out there who would love to get with a guy like you and I'm sure that you'd connect with one or more of them if you give it a proper chance. You haven't healed from the gaping hole your WAW left in your heart when she left. That takes time.

Look, you remind me of my brother. He and his wife divorced only to get back together, have a kid, get remarried and divorce again. Someone once said to me (about them) that it was obvious that they loved each other, they just couldn't live together. Sounds like you two.

Another confusing aspect is that you say she didn't file because she didn't want to but earlier you said it was because she couldn't afford to until February. Which is it? Could it be that she's starting to realize the cost of divorce and living life on her own will cramp her style?

Sorry O but I think you're setting yourself up for more heartache with this one.

However, if your sure you want to entertain this whole scenario again, what I would suggest is a compromise. Divorce her, date her and see where it goes OR tell her that you'll consider NOT divorcing her if she'll take a polygraph and answer any questions you have that led up to her leaving. Personally, I think she's hiding a possible affair

Sorry to be so blunt but something seems off here.
Okay, lets back up a minute.. I know on TAM every WW is off banging everything they can get their hands on.. my wife truly isn't like that.. she doesn't do ONS.. Her MO is exactly how we got together..

We knew each other for 3+ years before we got together.. in that time she got to know me.. when we actaully started dating it was 6 weeks before we went to bed.. That is how she operates... she's not a, "Hi, want to go to bed?" type.. You'll have to trust me on this...

The guys she dated immediately wanted sex.. she doesn't put herself out like that.. I am sure that if they would have played their cards right she would have slept with them, don't get me wrong...

The issue is guys my age (50) and over don't usually play the 'slow' game. They make a move, and usually too quick. I have many friends like this and they either get the ONS or they blow the relationship..

The part about not being able to afford it was a ploy, plain and simple. We hadn't contacted each other in a few weeks.. her email was a 'reach out' to just communicate on some level with me... I forgot to mention the day before the email I saw on my phone that she called me at 3:30 in the morning but left no message.. she later said that she couldn't sleep and was thinking of me..

So basicallly, her email was to initiate some kind of contact just so I would contact her... She makes 80K a year so money isn't her issue and I know this... She doesn't need money.

She left for a very good reason.. our marriage spun out of control. Due to our issues, i started drinking and the arguments started to escalate. She can't handle stress like that.

If you recall in my previous post she was shot at work some years back.. In her mind if a situation gets heated she interprets that as something that is going to escalate to violence (PTSD).

We needed this break to regroup.. We both are aware that counseling is a must, both on the IC level and MC level.

She isn't hiding an affair. If she was seeing someone she would tell me.. she's that way.. her stressers are so high she can't keep anything from me.

I know TAM believes that 100% of WAW are 100% having sex with everyone in the city they live in.. This isn't the case with the wife... she 's got to get to know you.. THEN she will sleep with you.. The guys she's met aren't very subtle about what they want and it scares her off.
 

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That may be the case

But actually that's beside the point. She's the one 'crying because she can't move on physically' yes? So actually what she's doing is reverting to what is comfortable and what she knows. That in itself is a dangerous game to play.

You've already talked yourself out of being interested in this new woman so when the WW says to you 'will you forget about her' and you say 'no'....why not? Because you're using her as a tool to keep your wife on her toes. Just as she uses her exh to keep you on her toes

This is why I feel it would be unhealthy to go back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ok. so when you know this and are sure of it,then why are we here?
Originally I wanted to know how to keep the upper hand until we can wade through this mess..

Toffer pointed out some insightful things in his post.. I need to remember this. I am trying to see if she has the ability to change and the DESIRE to change.

I don't want to go back to the NPD model I was stuck in. She is more than willing to go to counseling.

We have done that before but didn't stick to it very long.

I can say that she has improved a lot since the beginning of our relationship. That is why I am will to try.

When I compare the 'then' and 'now' she doesn't do a lot of the things she used to.. I interpret that as there is hope..

If it doesn't work then it doens't work...

I asked for advise on keeping one step ahead.
 

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I do not think you shall get lame validations here for what you assume!
Also, why focus on seeing whether your wife has chnaged or not,why not look inside you.This way you shall never be uncertain of yourself and noone shall be able to fool you.
I hope you get insightful replies here from other posters.all the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Just b/c you don't feel anything with the OW doesn't mean you need to jump right in and give your WW a chance!!

She saw you were moving on and can't stand it. Thats it. Thats the only reason she is begging you back. She wants you as plan B and saw you were moving on with your life.
Bride, you could very well be right and I am aware of this.. We have agreed to counseling and to not live together for at least a year.

That will give us time to evaluate what we want, and where we want to go. If she really isn't into it, she won't hang around.

Either way, she has her place (and her 30 yr old son is living there) and I have my place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I do not think you shall get lame validations here for what you assume!
Also, why focus on seeing whether your wife has chnaged or not,why not look inside you.This way you shall never be uncertain of yourself and noone shall be able to fool you.
I hope you get insightful replies here from other posters.all the best.
I am not attempting to get lame validations.. that is why I posted.. I also am not seeing things through rose colored glasses.

The hard part of posting here is it would take me weeks and pages and pages to get all the dynamics of this written out.

It much more complicated than, " I came home and my wife was in bed with my best friend."

Those scenerios are pretty much staight forward.

My wife didn't leave for OM.... This forum is about Separation or Divorce.. not Infidelity.

Sorry that everyone jumps to that conclusion right of the top.

We have issues, deep ones. I believe she wants this to work but doesn't know how (hence the counseling). She has a lot of childhood issues from her mother putting her down, and the MIL continues to this day.

Let me give a quick one... My MIL can't cook at all.. so my wife never learned that skill very well... My wife made Thankgiving turkey and my MIL complained the whole time about how dry it was.

Then she made snide comments about my wifes weight.. and then started on my wife's daughter about her parenting skills.

To this day my wife still has to put up with these emotional scares.

That's just one aspect of her emotional issues.
 
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