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Need some advice.

My wife and I have been married over nine years and together 12. We have two great kids 5 and 7 and for the most part have a good life.
She is good looking and in great shape. She is a wonderful mom a great homemaker (and below not withstanding) a great and supportive wife.
He is a very good looking friend of 30 years and my wife and his wife are good friends.

We were at a big bbq/party on Labor Day weekend. As the party moved into the evening drinking games were being played. I was talking with friends
and sitting with my son, when I noticed the one of my best friends was continually being close to her at the game. Although only about
20 feet away I couldn't see them clearly as there were about 10-12 people around the outdoor table. At some point that part of the game
ended and people were milling about. But they continued to stand near each other (with others around). I then got up to talk to someone and
at that point I was able to get a clear view of them. Then with her back to him but very close I saw him very slyly keeping his hand down
and noticed that he using his index finger to scratch/feel the middle of her butt. I moved closer to confirm and he was feeling her butt with his finger (Note: since I was driving I was not drinking).
As his wife and kids were there and lots of our long time friends I didn't want to make a scene.

So I walked over and tapped her on the shoulder and motioned her to come into the house. Where I confronted her, she denied, but we grabbed
the kids and left. She continued to deny she knew it was him and thought it was one of girls who had been doing that earlier (true that a couple of girls like to smack her butt).
The next day I sent him a email about it and he confessed saying he was drunk and what did was wrong. She confessed also, stating that when he
had arrived he had started trying to make eye contact and flirt with her. And that he had purposely positioned himself during the game next to her.
As the game went on he put his hand around her waist at the butt line. And then there was one other time where he was touching her butt
with a finger besides the one I saw. He admitted to brushing his hand on her butt. She has said that she was not drunk but was tipsy and knew what was happening was wrong. She said she was surprised that someone so good looking and succesful was looking at her, and she like the attention. She said finds him attactive but was not attracted to him.

I emailed him again to get all the truth. He said that at a party two years when my was wife was drunk and dancing that he started seeing her differently and wanted to flirt.
And that night he knew he wanted to flirt but never intended what happened and is shocked that he did something so bold in in front of his very jealous wife.
I know he was very drunk as he vomited later.

They both have been very apologetic and have been trying to get my trust back. He has sent many emails about how this has devastated him as he loves our group of
long time guy friends like brothers. And he will do anything and everything to earn my trust back.

For her part she has done everything that I could ask. Admitted her mistake, asked for forgiveness, told all she knows (even if it hurt me), has over compensated by always letting me know what she's doing and were she is going.
I can already (and have been for many years able) see her phone and text usage as we have a shared plan. And I have access to her phone as we know each
other passwords and she has always left her phone around house. We both have work laptops but she does not bring her's home very often and so we have only a shared personal laptop and
she is never off somewhere on it.

But this is not the first time she had done something inappropriate. About 10 years ago we were at a pizza joint with her coworkers on a Friday after work. As it was getting close to closing time
I said I was heading home (we drove separately) and she said they were splitting the bill and would be home home shortly. I had left 10:50 and the place
closed at 11 and we live about 10 min away. But she got home after midnight. I as angry and she said they had hung out in the parking lot and then she had to drive one of her coworkers to his car
at work (which was also very close). She said they talked for a few minutes and that she left.

On Monday of the next week she sat down to check email in the evening and I was in the room talking with her. She opened an email and I glanced down and saw it was from him and started reading.
I got as far as seeing that he was asking her if she wanted to get together sometime that week after work before she deleted it. Of course I blew up. She then retold that story that night, that they had been flirting that night
and she had offered to give a ride to continue the flirting and that nothing had happened in the car at work. That they had been talking/flirting but that security had come up to them and asked them to leave
that they would wait until they did. Although she would not say what happened she said they did not kiss, no sex if any kind. But she apologized and admitted what she did was very wrong.

Fast forward to the recent problem and I brought this one up again. I said I need to know the truth about this one also. She then told me the details. Saying that the pulled in to the lot and parked
and started talking/flirting. At one point he put his hand on hers while her hand was on her leg. He was touching her leg with his finger while holding her hand. She then retold the security story
and that they had to leave.

She said that was last only time she was alone only with him. And shortly after that he took a anticipated transfer to be close to his home (I know he was hoping to do this since we had talked earlier).

My wife is not a big flirty person, but she does do it. She has said she has self esteem issues (I already know this). She acknowledges that I show her attention and comment when she looks especially nice.
But sometime its not enough. I actually ok with her flirting at bars when she goes out with the girls and that its ok to dance with guys. I think it can he healthy for you to feel attractive and desirable and casual
flirting is a way to do that. And she had taken trips with her friends many times.

To summarize where I am: With him I am very angry still, when people party and flirting starts along with drinking it should not go to far but it can. But was not spontaneous flirting, it did not happen "natually". He arrived and without
even really sitting down and letting fun start, he started staring her down. This has lead me to believe that he had an agenda to flirt from the get go.

For my wife, its been hard but she is doing everything she can think of and anything I ask. And as a part rebuilding process we have looked all parts of our life. And as a result, outside of dealing with the above, our relationship has
been much, much better. Maybe better than all but the first couple of years of our relationship.

I don't believe what she did was infidelity (I have no proof or anything close to proof of any kind of hookups) but was very inappropriate and very disrespectful. I am I naive ?

Anyone know of something similar ?

Greatly appreciate all who take the time to respond to this long post.
 

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Self esteem issues. How many times have I seen this used as rationalisation for "I wanted to bonk his/her brains out".

22:50 till gone midnight. I think it is possible that they played mr wobbly hides his helmet.

rein her in dude.
 
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Ask her to take a polygraph, most BS spill the beans with this option. But always go through with it because the real truth usually comes out right before the test takes place if they have been unfaithful.
 

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Your wife is brazen. I would let her know that her behavior was unacceptable and let your friend's wife know what he was up to. It will put a stop to future incidents. Keep an eye on her.
 

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Need some advice.



20 feet away I couldn't see them clearly as there were about
at that point I was able to get a clear view of them. Then with her back to him but very close I saw him very slyly keeping his hand down
and noticed that he using his index finger to scratch/feel the middle of her butt. I moved closer to confirm and he was feeling her butt with his finger (Note: since I was driving I was not drinking).
As his wife and kids were there and lots of our long time friends I didn't want to make a scene.

<---- Wow, bold and I get that drinks were involved but some people are only as faithful as their opportunities. Obviously there is a attraction between them.


The next day I sent him a email about it and he confessed saying he was drunk and what did was wrong. She confessed also, stating that when he
had arrived he had started trying to make eye contact and flirt with her. And that he had purposely positioned himself during the game next to her. <---so she noticed this, but wasn't concerned?


As the game went on he put his hand around her waist at the butt line. And then there was one other time where he was touching her butt
with a finger besides the one I saw. He admitted to brushing his hand on her butt. She has said that she was not drunk but was tipsy and knew what was happening was wrong. She said she was surprised that someone so good looking and succesful was looking at her, and she like the attention. She said finds him attactive but was not attracted to him.

<----Knew it was wrong, but let it continue??? How can you find someone attractive but not _attracted_ to him but let him feel your butt??



They both have been very apologetic and have been trying to get my trust back. He has sent many emails about how this has devastated him as he loves our group of
long time guy friends like brothers. And he will do anything and everything to earn my trust back. ** How about saying goodbye to the friendship????

For her part she has done everything that I could ask. Admitted her mistake, asked for forgiveness, told all she knows (even if it hurt me), has over compensated by always letting me know what she's doing and were she is going.
I can already (and have been for many years able) see her phone and text usage as we have a shared plan. And I have access to her phone as we know each
other passwords and she has always left her phone around house. We both have work laptops but she does not bring her's home very often and so we have only a shared personal laptop and
she is never off somewhere on it.

* Do not think these are signs that all is well-- these are superficial *proof* of fidelity at best. We all know about burner phones, work laptops etc...What you really have to answer is are you comfortable even if you can't verify NC?

But this is not the first time she had done something *****Warning, red flag, when people show you who they are, believe them"

Problems with boundaries here.

On Monday of the next week she sat down to check email in the evening and I was in the room talking with her. She opened an email and I glanced down and saw it was from him and started reading.
Although she would not say what happened she said they did not kiss, no sex if any kind. But she apologized and admitted what she did was very wrong.

*OK, so here you never got the truth back then which just eats at you, she gave you trickle truth method....which will never settle in your heart. How can you trust when she won't tell everything. A wall is being built between you on this.



Fast forward to the recent problem and I brought this one up again. I said I need to know the truth about this one also. She then told me the details. Saying that the pulled in to the lot and parked
and started talking/flirting. At one point he put his hand on hers while her hand was on her leg. He was touching her leg with his finger while holding her hand. She then retold the security story
and that they had to leave.

My wife is not a big flirty person, but she does do it. <---I guess so- somehow she ends up in sticky situations despite being not flirty.



She has said she has self esteem issues (I already know this). She acknowledges that I show her attention and comment when she looks especially nice.
But sometime its not enough. I actually ok with her flirting at bars when she goes out with the girls and that its ok to dance with guys. I think it can he healthy for you to feel attractive and desirable and casual
flirting is a way to do that. And she had taken trips with her friends many times.

*My friend, you are all but saying it's ok but are then shocked when she goes further than you _agreed ed_ upon...... you have set up a expectation of marital failure here.



For my wife, its been hard but she is doing everything she can think of and anything I ask. And as a part rebuilding process we have looked all parts of our life. And as a result, outside of dealing with the above, our relationship has
been much, much better. Maybe better than all but the first couple of years of our relationship.

I don't believe what she did was infidelity (I have no proof or anything close to proof of any kind of hookups) but was very inappropriate and very disrespectful. I am I naive ?

*Regardless if it's infidelity or not based on your definition it bugs you or you wouldn't be here trying to find answers. You can't put it all on the other man either, you wife is allowing this situation to fester and you did as well. How can she disrespect your marriage when you are sending mixed messages. It's _ok_ to flirt??????

She has low self esteem, admits that your attention and compliments are not enough.....and you don't see this as a huge warning sign? You will never be able to fill her cup until she gets to the root of the self esteem problem......


You are lucky you spotted the touching.....maybe you can get this train back on track.



Greatly appreciate all who take the time to respond to this long post.
 

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Ask her to take a polygraph, most BS spill the beans with this option. But always go through with it because the real truth usually comes out right before the test takes place if they have been unfaithful.
I would do this also because you know it's going to be eating you alive wondering but also set some boundries with her.
 

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Let me get this straight, you bust her before with a coworker and now you buster with a good friend. In between these two times you confronted her you have continued to let her have your GNO and trips. What are you thinking?

In my book this would be strike two and with that come the lose of any more GNO. It time to protect your marriage, you can control her but if she refuse the protection you have to offer then it might be time to readdress what you want in a wife.

And by all means she needs to get some theropy and learn the tools to affair proof her marriage.

Its been my experience that your chick is just getting started and her lack off boundries are goeing to cause you some great pain in the future.

Until she address her issue she will continue to be a threat to the marriage.

BTW, my wife started about 7 yrs into the marriage and I let it go for 13 more years and by the time I had enough she had inbedded her second life that invlolved a very dangerous life style of ONS and short time affairs.

Wake up my friend and make her get the help that will give her the tools to affair proof her marriage.
 

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I actually ok with her flirting at bars when she goes out with the girls and that its ok to dance with guys. I think it can he healthy for you to feel attractive and desirable and casual
flirting is a way to do that. And she had taken trips with her friends many times.
I had this same mind set that you mentioned in this quote and let me tell you that you also need to start affair proofing your marraige by protecting it.

This kind of thinking ....just like with me and my fWW....will get the both of you in trouble. Dude our chicks need a strong and confident man to take charge, command respect, strong boundries.. by no longer tolorating the crap that they pull.....

I know from experince that you are making a big mistake in continuing to let her have this much rope....she will ..just like mine did ...ruin her marriage and her famliy!!!!!!
 

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I had this same mind set that you mentioned in this quote and let me tell you that you also need to start affair proofing your marraige by protecting it.

This kind of thinking ....just like with me and my fWW....will get the both of you in trouble. Dude our chicks need a strong and confident man to take charge, command respect, strong boundries.. by no longer tolorating the crap that they pull.....

I know from experince that you are making a big mistake in continuing to let her have this much rope....she will ..just like mine did ...ruin her marriage and her famliy!!!!!!
GNO is over unless you are with her:slap:
 

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Your wife is brazen. I would let her know that her behavior was unacceptable and let your friend's wife know what he was up to. It will put a stop to future incidents. Keep an eye on her.
No **** Sherlock
 
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If he had his finger where you say he did and she wasn't moving away from him despite the booze (she'd have to be drop down drunk not just buzzed) then I gotta tell you, I think that train prob already left the station. They thought they were getting away with something (that's prob happened before) and you caught 'em. Most women won't allow a probe of an intimate nature in public without some probe in private beforehand.
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Tell the guy's wife now and no he is not your friend if he's trying to get in your wife's pants.:mad:
He's probably bending over backwards with apologies out of fear you're going to tell his wife,and maybe your wife is too.Be interesting to know if he's gotten hands on with any of the other wives in your social group.
 

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http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life.html

read this thread immediately... Your wife and your friend got caught and successfully lied their way out of it...They were drunk enough to do it in front of you and did not expect to get caught. they probably found it extremely hot to do it infront of you. They were probably having the affair for a long time... And tell his wife immediately. the OM in the story I linked literally cried thanking the Husband for not exposing him to his wife...then he f*cked his wife...Don't do the same mistake


Notice how your wife denied it initially but later matched the story with the OM
 

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http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57247-she-cheated-i-hate-my-life.html

read this thread immediately... Your wife and your friend got caught and successfully lied their way out of it...They were drunk enough to do it in front of you and did not expect to get caught. they must have found it extremely hot to do it infront of you. They were probably having an affair for a long time. Tell his wife immediately. the OM in the story I linked literally cried thanking the Husband for not exposing him to his wife...then he f*cked his wife...Don't do the same mistake


Notice how your wife denied it initially but later matched the story with the OM
Yes this story to a tee! Tell the om wife don't wait if you want to salvage your marriage
 

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Something about this story seems odd. Both these men were touching your wife's leg and butt with their "finger"? Why just the one finger? Who does that?

Okay, assuming your story is true, she has big time boundary issues. She doesn't talk to this attractive friend anymore. He doesn't talk to her. In fact, I would just keep them away from each other. You need to monitor her email and phone for the next 90 days or so to make sure she isn't contacting him in some other way.

It's doubtful she was just flirting in the first incident. 2 hours is more than enough time to have sex in a car.
 
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