Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am so thankful I've stumbled onto this site. I haven't had the first clue how to get advice and save my marriage. My husband and I have been together 18 years and we have two kids. We have a mostly happy marriage. I've read all the threads for the past week and I'd say we mostly have matching sex drives. He doesn't complain about how often and I don't complain about it being a duty.

The problem is more complex. My husband has gotten pretty into online sites (not just porn, he's also into blogs and discussion groups). He has this driving need to be very public with sex. He'd really like for me to go to a swingers club with him and just "watch." He'd also like for us to have an online relationship with other couples and "watch" them and let them watch us. And he'd really like to rent an airplane and have sex in the back with the pilot watching (apparently there's some kind of local service that does this? WTF?). You get the idea. I think he's even researched inviting someone over.

I am really not okay with any of this. In fact, I'm totally skeeved out by it. If he were willing to keep it in the fantasy realm, I could act well enough and with enough alcohol to talk it through on the pillow only. The problem is that if I even try then he's really thinking it's going to happen. It's not going to happen. Even if I were 20 and unencumbered by children, duties, and a middle-aged body this is not what I would be doing.

The problem is that every time we have sex there's this shadow of expectation hovering over us. Like I'm not being the up for anything porn star of his dreams and he's disappointed. It's not like we have totally vanilla sex, but with two teenagers in the house we're not swinging from the ceiling either. I just like to be close and I'm still totally into him even after all these years.

I discovered quite by accident - because our level of trust is such that I don't check up on him - that he has a subscription to ****** *******. No idea if he's off boffing a more liberal wife over lunch. I hope not. I have not asked him, mostly because I am afraid a whole string of stuff is going to be unleashed.

The other day we had just finished having sex TWICE when he said "there's this couple in London who want to talk with us." I just pretended to not hear him. I've told him this is not something I'm comfortable with. He knows. He tells me my drawing the line makes him feel like he wants something dirty.

I don't know where to go from here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I feel like I should clarify - I'm not judgmental about what other people do. If going to a swingers club is right for someone else, totally cool (as long as that someone is not my husband!:). It's just not for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,394 Posts
I am so thankful I've stumbled onto this site. I haven't had the first clue how to get advice and save my marriage. My husband and I have been together 18 years and we have two kids. We have a mostly happy marriage. I've read all the threads for the past week and I'd say we mostly have matching sex drives. He doesn't complain about how often and I don't complain about it being a duty.

The problem is more complex. My husband has gotten pretty into online sites (not just porn, he's also into blogs and discussion groups). He has this driving need to be very public with sex. He'd really like for me to go to a swingers club with him and just "watch." He'd also like for us to have an online relationship with other couples and "watch" them and let them watch us. And he'd really like to rent an airplane and have sex in the back with the pilot watching (apparently there's some kind of local service that does this? WTF?). You get the idea. I think he's even researched inviting someone over.

I am really not okay with any of this. In fact, I'm totally skeeved out by it. If he were willing to keep it in the fantasy realm, I could act well enough and with enough alcohol to talk it through on the pillow only. The problem is that if I even try then he's really thinking it's going to happen. It's not going to happen. Even if I were 20 and unencumbered by children, duties, and a middle-aged body this is not what I would be doing.

The problem is that every time we have sex there's this shadow of expectation hovering over us. Like I'm not being the up for anything porn star of his dreams and he's disappointed. It's not like we have totally vanilla sex, but with two teenagers in the house we're not swinging from the ceiling either. I just like to be close and I'm still totally into him even after all these years.

I discovered quite by accident - because our level of trust is such that I don't check up on him - that he has a subscription to ****** *******. No idea if he's off boffing a more liberal wife over lunch. I hope not. I have not asked him, mostly because I am afraid a whole string of stuff is going to be unleashed.

The other day we had just finished having sex TWICE when he said "there's this couple in London who want to talk with us." I just pretended to not hear him. I've told him this is not something I'm comfortable with. He knows. He tells me my drawing the line makes him feel like he wants something dirty.

I don't know where to go from here.
I think he is negotiating and seeing what kind of compromise he can get. That isn't fair to you. He should not be pressuring you into something you do not want to do. In fact, most people would not be ok with this sort of thing so he is being completely unreasonable.

Second, the website that you mentioned has been blanked out but I'm guessing it is similar to ash mad. If he is on that website I would be very concerned ... a subscription means that he is more than just browsing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Wow, sorry to hear this. It's one thing to have no boundaries with each other, but you BOTH certainly have to be on the same page for any of the other.

The problem with the inclusion of the rest is that it's not just him winning/you losing, or you winning/him losing, but the potential for your MARRIAGE to be a casualty of these actions. I particularly would be concerned with the website he registered on, it's starred out, but I'm assuming it's @shley [email protected], which is all about having a affair, if I'm thinking of the same one.

Something is going on here, I'd be doing some very subtle checking to get the facts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,010 Posts
uh oh.. it is obvious that your husband does not have your marriage as a major concern...Marriage is a teamwork, if a member of the team does not care to keep the team as a team, then the team should be disbanded. Tell him that, as an equal partner in this partnerships of life, you veto his decision to go on swinging. If he refuses to sacrifice his swinging way for your marriage, then terminate the marriage. You deserves better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,357 Posts
I really don't think that your marriage is good. Your husband seems to see you as a means to an end.

He wants to use you to satisfy his sexual fantasies. He does not care about your safety or pleasure. It is not love, it's [email protected]

if Someone you know saw these public displays, who woukd be shamed? How would it effect your kids..

Your husband has an unhealthy view of marital sex and he needs help.

Why do you not tell him that you do not care to be used? Maybe you are being too sexually adventous and he thinks you will do anything.

I think there is more here than you are willing to see. mayos highly likely to be cheating with random women.

You need firm bounderies around this issue this is no time to be nice. Your marriage is in trouble. Tell him not to bring these things up to you ever again. He is treating you with disrespect.

You have to really think about this. Does he think you are special? Would he protect you if another man approached you or would he hope that you woukd have sex with he guy while he watches.

What kind of loving husband wants his wife to expose herself for his pleasure only? Would such a man be in love with his wife?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,409 Posts
We don't have to vilify your husband to say it's OK for you not to be interested in this. There wouldn't be swingers clubs if there wasn't a pretty big pool of interested people.

Just say no, it's a deal breaker. You are allowed to set boundaries, especially when bringing others into your bedroom is the topic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,733 Posts
I think this is all about respect. Your husband has little respect for your feelings and you as a human being and sees you more as a vessel to satisfy his needs.

He needs some serious IC and you both would benefit from MC too
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,357 Posts
I think what he is doing is villainous. He joined some site to meet women; pesters his wife to engage in sexual activity that she has made clear is not her thing, the sexual activity is for his pleasure only and he is being coersive.

This is not a benign situation. He does not care about what she wants, nor her safety. He risk shaming her and his kids so he gets an orgasm.

That is not a good husband or man. He needs help to control himself.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,076 Posts
If he were willing to keep it in the fantasy realm, I could act well enough and with enough alcohol to talk it through on the pillow only. The problem is that if I even try then he's really thinking it's going to happen. It's not going to happen. Even if I were 20 and unencumbered by children, duties, and a middle-aged body this is not what I would be doing.
I was an exhibitionist, so was my wife. Since marriage, my wife wanted to play a good girl, but continued to entertain my fantasies privately via roleplay. Unlike your situation though, she was VERY clear on where she stood, hence her fantasies became a satisfactory replacement.

I can't say I've stopped "testing the electric fence" however, and maybe that's just what your husband is doing. How often does he bring it up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
I discovered quite by accident - because our level of trust is such that I don't check up on him - that he has a subscription to ****** *******. No idea if he's off boffing a more liberal wife over lunch. I hope not. I have not asked him, mostly because I am afraid a whole string of stuff is going to be unleashed.
Firstly, I would confront him with this. He's probably using the site to find those couples he talks about. You should clear this first to see what's going on.

Secondly, talk to him about his fantasies and what are your boundaries regarding them. It's up to him what he'll do with that.

You should keep in mind that this sexual fantasy was probably brewing for years in his mind and it wont go away.

I don't think you can do more than this at this moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I was an exhibitionist, so was my wife. Since marriage, my wife wanted to play a good girl, but continued to entertain my fantasies privately via roleplay. Unlike your situation though, she was VERY clear on where she stood, hence her fantasies became a satisfactory replacement.

I can't say I've stopped "testing the electric fence" however, and maybe that's just what your husband is doing. How often does he bring it up?
I think this is more it, really. I say one thing to try and present a solution I'm comfortable with and he's running for the fence. It just makes it irritating though. A constant testing of boundaries is exhausting because then I'm in the position of being the denier. I would say he brings up something along these lines about every time we have sex - which at this point is actually not all that often now that I'm really thinking about it. Once a week usually.

I don't want to vilify him. He is a great husband in many ways. He's not going to swinger clubs - he's just talking about it. After the responses last night I got on his computer and searched his history for the past six months (he never clears off his computer). I didn't find anything beyond what I already knew (the discussion boards and tumblr). What I saw that was ash mad was almost a year ago when I was on his computer checking a recipe online and his email notification popped up with an email from ash mad - it seemed more of a generic one and not really a hook up email. At least from the notice.

At the time I was working in a job that required 150% of my time and effort. I know he felt like a widower.

I'm going to just flat out ask him. That seems like the honorable way to deal with his being on Ash Mad at all. Something I really should have done months ago.

Thank you for the thoughts and advice. It's helping me see every side of this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You should keep in mind that this sexual fantasy was probably brewing for years in his mind and it wont go away.
I think that's what bothers me. The fact that this is a repeating element is putting a quiet wedge in our marriage. He can't move past it and I think it's become kind of an obsession on his part.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,076 Posts
Hmmm, once a week, everytime you have sex? Then yeah I can see what you mean, that's just exhausting. Like hey, my wife has a fantasy of bending me over, if she nags me about it every week I would be investing in a metal chastity belt. I normally test the boundaries only once in a blue moon and my wife just tells me to get fked hehe. However, she does use it later as an idea to roleplay the next time we have sex so the fantasy is satisfied regardless.

I also have wilder fantasies then exhibitionism, including swinging fantasies. My wife has satisfied the former both physically in the past but it's just roleplay now and the latter is strictly roleplay. She's very firm on those boundaries in particular, and over time I actually grew to appreciate her stubborness.

Hmmm, maybe you can bring up a "fantasy" about strap-ons with him and once he squeals see if you can get him to understand that's how you feel about it. WARNING: Might backfire if he's actually into having things inserted into his anus!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hmmm, once a week, everytime you have sex? Then yeah I can see what you mean, that's just exhausting. Like hey, my wife has a fantasy of bending me over, if she nags me about it every week I would be investing in a metal chastity belt. I normally test the boundaries only once in a blue moon and my wife just tells me to get fked hehe. However, she does use it later as an idea to roleplay the next time we have sex so the fantasy is satisfied regardless.

I also have wilder fantasies then exhibitionism, including swinging fantasies. My wife has satisfied the former both physically in the past but it's just roleplay now and the latter is strictly roleplay. She's very firm on those boundaries in particular, and over time I actually grew to appreciate her stubborness.

Hmmm, maybe you can bring up a "fantasy" about strap-ons with him and once he squeals see if you can get him to understand that's how you feel about it. WARNING: Might backfire if he's actually into having things inserted into his anus!
Ha ha ha! I have actually thought about turning the tables on him with something outrageous, but I am afraid it would backfire. It's hard to get him to understand how this pressure makes me feel. As with all marital difficulties, I am partially to blame for never really taking a very, very firm stand and telling him to "get fked" By ignoring this I think I'm at least somewhat allowing him to think there's a break in the fence somewhere he just has to find it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
He can't move past it and I think it's become kind of an obsession on his part.
This is most likely true.

As with all marital difficulties, I am partially to blame for never really taking a very, very firm stand and telling him to "get fked" By ignoring this I think I'm at least somewhat allowing him to think there's a break in the fence somewhere he just has to find it.
I don't have a solution for you. If you take a firm stand it's very likely that he'll stop pestering you but will in time resent you for not meeting his desires. If you allow 'a break in the fence' he'll just start pushing to make it bigger.

Talk to him and make sure you'll not change your mind about this when you do. Perhaps it could help if you offer yourself something new instead.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,076 Posts
Yup exactly! My wife has been very understanding to complement her very firm stance when it comes to it as well via the fantasy roleplays. This is standard I found for enforcing boundaries to be the most fair and most effective I guess. It's unfortunate my wife and I both forget to remember how to maintain consistently good boundaries and arrangements like that, and how to ensure that with present and future issues. It's a challenge I guess.

The ability to enforce and maintain healthy boundaries seems to be one of the most important skills to learn in marriage I found.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
We had the talk yesterday, and as I was afraid, it sort of unraveled into something that I now have to come to grips with.

He is not cheating on me, it's almost worse than that, if that makes any sense. Because that email was so long ago and I haven't seen another one I think it was a pitch from them because of his activity on a certain literary erotica sites message boards. He said once he realized I was not up for the lifestyle he stopped looking. But he didn't seem especially sorry.

He's just really unhappy with every aspect of his life. And has been for years. This is going to get long, sorry. We've had financial difficulties since 2008, like most of the world. He had to take a job that paid far less than he was used to and I went to work in a really demanding job to pay some bills. Usually we've had our own business.

He's been drinking steadily more and more the past few years and the few times I said anything about it resulted in explosions so I just stopped saying anything. In December he decided he wanted to stop nicotine, which he did with the help of a hypnotherapist. He also decided he wanted to stop drinking so he did both at once.

Long story short, yesterday he said he felt broken. Like he just wasn't there anymore. Like he's deeply unhappy with everything and can't feel anything. He doesn't feel healthy, he doesn't feel good. When I confronted him about the Ash Mad thing he seemed genuine in his explanation, but he didn't exactly seem sorry.

Really, I think he's headed deep into the very typical male mid-life crisis. I also don't think he loves me anymore nor is he attracted to me. I've been letting this all go for a long while thinking it was a phase he would get out of eventually. I don't think so anymore. I think the whole swinging thing was his attempt to generate some excitement in his life.

How does one support a husband who is so closed off emotionally and so unhappy? I don't even want to be around him and I am now letting myself feel all the things I've been letting go for the past few years - so I'm now pissed off.

He did say he needed to go see a therapist, but he's been saying that a while and won't actually make an appointment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
This is his problem.

Some fixation he's gotten into his head that he needs to let go.

Carl Jung said: "The foremost of all illusions is that anything can ever satisfy anyone. That illusions stands behind all that is unendurable in life and in front of all progress..."

Meaning: If he decides in his head that he MUST have this stuff in his sex life than he will never be content (we can DECIDE to feel discontented about literally every facet of our life).

At some point, a person has to decide: this is enough. This is the happy compromise I am able to reach in a world that can never fully satisfy anyone in every way.



So, provided you don't reject him a lot, are loving outside of the bedroom and are engaged/passionate/emotive when you are in bed that's what he needs to do. Decide (happily) that what he has is enough.

See, I believe that sex=love for men, and men need sex to feel love.

But I don't believe taking your wife to a swingers club is a part of 'making love to her'...it's just wrongly channeled testosterone/ sexual energy
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
296 Posts
Typo ,

Im very sorry to hear about the issues you're having right now with the husband. When i started reading the thread i at first thought that you were fortunate since the husband was at least involving you rather than just going about behind your back but in seeing the update above i am truely sorry.

He may be very frustrated since you have not given him any hope that you're willing to at least explore this " other " side with him thus feels it's the end ?? Perhaps as a last ditch effort why not do try .... even once what he wants like caming with another couple ?? It just may provide a spark in him and a new found love for you .... as strange as it may sound ??? Good luck !!
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top