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Discussion Starter #121
And the first guy?

The one that she was meeting in grocery store parking lots...?
She worked with him over 12 years ago, and we have since moved far away from that place. I actually hadn't thought about that situation for years until the latest situation happened. Then everything came rushing back.
 

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She worked with him over 12 years ago, and we have since moved far away from that place. I actually hadn't thought about that situation for years until the latest situation happened. Then everything came rushing back.
Have you revisited it w/ her?
 
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I'm glad you got you guys got your shyt together ...it's sound awsome!

I think you guy should talk a little more and see if she is interested in reeding the book. I mean if i get this right should would have never sent you this email a couple years ago.

My point is it looks like she is "growing" or lets say she is maturing with age.....so she is a lot closer to understanding this crap called infidelity so ya *now* is a good time to get her closer to excepting your request in reading the book.

I say you email her when she is at work to ask her if she wants the book. What the hell it seems like she is more comfortable dealing with issues of infidelity when you guys are not face to face...but what the heel it's a start so go with it.

Who knows in time you guys can discuss infidelity face to face once she gets to learning and gets educated. what the hell anything that will help her affair proof the marriage is great!

And it seems like she is so close to start affair proofing the marriage then she was. So kve on it and send her a email requesting her to check the book out.
 

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I found it interesting that your old lady was more comfortable sending you an email after talking about cheating when it was someone else. I'm guessing she wasn't dealing with her own issues but someone else phucked up marriage and wasn't so defensive about her own past behaviors.

Good luck with your old lady and I hope she learns the tools to affair proof the marriage.

I hope this answered your question?
 

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One more thing feel free to use my favorite phrase...."learn the tools to affair proof a marriage"

Go a head and put it in the email you send her when you ask her to read Not Just Friends.
 

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This is all based on the fact that I have no proof that she ever tasted his "Bacon". The only evidence I ever had was them texting each other.
What she did was underhanded and wrong even if there was never any sex. She doesn't get that. She's only sorry because she got caught and you got upset.
 

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I wonder why she had a change of heart between now (with the heart felt email) and 8 months ago were she would not even want to talk about infidelity...even if it was someone else''s infidelity?
 

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I don?t think you can be all that sorry at the gut level if you don?t think you did anything wrong. It?s like you grew up eating pork and then converted to a religion where eating pork is a sin.

You know that you agreed to not eat pork and that you will get into trouble and disappoint people if you?re caught. But if you?re not caught you have no guilt whatsoever about enjoying a little bacon.
This is all based on the fact that I have no proof that she ever tasted his "Bacon". The only evidence I ever had was them texting each other.
Poly could help put your mind at ease about that.
 

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Poly could help put your mind at ease about that.
I think that the time has come to stop picking on the OP. They seem to be in a good place. Why not let them enjoy their situation. If she screws up again, he'll know.

As for the poly, don't go near it. Poly does NOT work. Courts won't allow it and the failure rate is very high. The last thing the OP needs is to have his wife flunk a poly test when she's really innocent.

Don't take my word for this. Google is your friend. A polygraph test is not your friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #130
Thank you everyone for your insight. I am at work, and really don't have time to answer everyone's questions individually. I do really like some of the points that were brought up. Over all, I really do feel like she has come a long way in the last two years. She seems to recognize that what she did was wrong, and she seems very sorry and sincere now. It doesn't feel like she is just sorry that she got caught, it seems like she sees now how truly hurtful her actions were to our marriage, and I feel her sincere desire to fix things.

Two years ago, when this whole mess started, she threw a tizzy fit when I mentioned that I was not comfortable with her talking to her boss at work, and that they should never talk about anything personal. She acted like I was a jealous controlling jerk, and that I had no right to disapprove of her having a "Friend". When we talk about friends of the opposite sex now, she says than she understands now why it is such a bad idea, and she understands how important boundaries are. She has matured a lot in this area.

Bottom line is that I actually am starting to feel a sense of security, and feel like she is fully invested in our marriage. I am going to do as suggested by someone, and invite her to read "Not Just Friends" with me, as a learning tool, of how we can affair proof our marriage. We are about 18 months into recovery, and I really do believe when people on here say that it will take 2 to 5 years. I am starting to see a ray of hope, that if we continue on this path, we can be fully recovered, but I am still not naive enough to think we are home free. Our marriage now is on a brittle foundation that will take years to fully solidify.
 

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The foundation may be brittle but it sounds like it's at least no longer crumbling.
 
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Yes ask her to read it and read it yourself. This is in many ways the tone of the box.

well a city boy goes for a hike and gets bit by a rattler.


The following year he goes for a hike and gets bit by a rattler.
So his county friend says "you know it is odd you got bit twice. Usually a rattler warns you to back of before it strikes. Why didn't you just back off? City boy says rattle what rattle?

Next year city boy and country boy go for a walk with county boy leading. They hear a rattler county boy jumps back ten feet and turns to see if city is ok. City is gone, no where to be found. So county starts to track him. He finally catches up to city two counties over and city is looking to add one more county for good measure.
 

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Early remorse is often fear of loss as a result of getting caught.

When the wayward begins to realize what a gift reconciliation really is, genuine guilt and overwhelming remorse may follow.

In other words true remorse is sometimes cumulative. In a safe environment where she can actually look at and face the damage she caused she may have learned and grown from the experience. Lets hope so.

What about the (likely) case that she has not been fully honest about her affair?

That could be a matter of a weakness of character (fear of consequences), and not necessarily an indication of a lack or remorse.

She may truly know enough of the pain involved to never go there again, and she may truly love the OP.

There may be no secret longing for someone else or the excitement of the illicit experience.

This is best case and the most positive spin I can apply. Again lets hope its true.

If so she is now forced to compartmentalize the truth of the actual events with whatever justifications work for her.

This is not the best practice for her mental health.
As the relationship improves it will be harder to keep the compartment closed.

She has limited the intimacy of your marriage in a significant way because now the two of you can never honestly go there together.

She may be broken enough as a peson that it will never become an issue anyway.

If not be aware that guilt often shows up as blame, and blame as bitterness. If she cant bring herself to direct it at you she may direct it at herself.

If that happenes go to the root, provide a safe enviroment and help her to honestly face and move on from what she has done.

It sounds like you have the love and commitment to do whatever it takes to make it work. Thats golden! I respect that.

Maybe in all your pain and searching in this you have found a nut, crack it open and enjoy it, lord knows you deserve it.

I really do wish you both well.
Take care.
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Thank you everyone for your insight. I am at work, and really don't have time to answer everyone's questions individually. I do really like some of the points that were brought up. Over all, I really do feel like she has come a long way in the last two years. She seems to recognize that what she did was wrong, and she seems very sorry and sincere now. It doesn't feel like she is just sorry that she got caught, it seems like she sees now how truly hurtful her actions were to our marriage, and I feel her sincere desire to fix things.

Two years ago, when this whole mess started, she threw a tizzy fit when I mentioned that I was not comfortable with her talking to her boss at work, and that they should never talk about anything personal. She acted like I was a jealous controlling jerk, and that I had no right to disapprove of her having a "Friend". When we talk about friends of the opposite sex now, she says than she understands now why it is such a bad idea, and she understands how important boundaries are. She has matured a lot in this area.

Bottom line is that I actually am starting to feel a sense of security, and feel like she is fully invested in our marriage. I am going to do as suggested by someone, and invite her to read "Not Just Friends" with me, as a learning tool, of how we can affair proof our marriage. We are about 18 months into recovery, and I really do believe when people on here say that it will take 2 to 5 years. I am starting to see a ray of hope, that if we continue on this path, we can be fully recovered, but I am still not naive enough to think we are home free. Our marriage now is on a brittle foundation that will take years to fully solidify.

You have frequently mentioned how much you love her. After all of this have you found time to love you? I wish you all the best.

Cheers,
V(13)
 

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Poly could help put your mind at ease about that.
I think that the time has come to stop picking on the OP. They seem to be in a good place. Why not let them enjoy their situation. If she screws up again, he'll know.

As for the poly, don't go near it. Poly does NOT work. Courts won't allow it and the failure rate is very high. The last thing the OP needs is to have his wife flunk a poly test when she's really innocent.

Don't take my word for this. Google is your friend. A polygraph test is not your friend.

Courts won't allow it because it can be messed with by people taking psych drugs before it. They can deceive it to get inconclusive results. If the examiner is worth a crap they can tell you something is off with 7th e person.

I always advocate giving spouse a UA before test to make sure they have not taken anything.

I scheduled 12 polys last month in my office. And we send people back to lockup based on results from polygraph.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
Update on my situation. A lot has happened since the last time I posted here. Back in December I mentioned my wife and I reading the book “Not just friends”… we did that, and then we read the book “His needs her needs” . We had some great discussions after reading these two books, and I felt that we were really making some progress. Then I went and did something really stupid... I had an affair…

At my work we have an “IT” department that helps us with computer issues, and one day there was a girl who helped me with my lap top. Afterwards I emailed her thanking her for being so nice, and I told her that she seemed like a really cool person. From there we really hit it off and you can only guess what happened. To make a long story short we began emailing on pretty much a daily basis, and got into details of our personal lives, including me telling her about my wife’s past Emotional affairs.

After a couple weeks I asked her to send me a picture, because I had no idea what she looked like. She sent me a picture, and I told her that she was very pretty, and then I sent her a picture of myself. Then we talked about meeting each other in person. We both agreed that it probably wouldn’t be a good idea since we were already attracted to each other. At this point I was aware that what I was doing was not right, and that I should stop. I began to justify things in my mind, and blame shift things in my mind back on my wife. I began to be very angry towards her for the emotional affair that she had with her boss. Ironic I know right?

So a little time had passed that we had said that we should never meet in person, and on the 24th of February, I was having a particularly terrible day, because it was that day two years ago, that my wife began texting her boss. So I emailed this OW, and asked her if we could meet in person. I told her that I was having a bad day, and that I would really like to meet her. So I drove to her work which is about 4 miles from my work. The company I work for Contracts out their IT service, so she works at another facility. We met for only about 5 minutes. I sat in my car, and she stayed outside. I actually invited her to sit in my car, but she said that wouldn’t be a good idea. We ended up meeting another time like this, and then nothing for a couple weeks. Then one day I told her that I would like to meet her away from her work. We ended up meeting at a Walmart parking lot for about 10 minutes, and at the end of our conversation I hugged her, and smelled her neck. Afterwards we pretty much expressed to each other that we were very attracted to each other, and that we needed to be very careful. At this point we began texting each other. The next week I wanted to meet her again, but she couldn’t, so I asked her if she would send me another picture, but this time a little lower. She ended up sending me a picture of her breasts.

Things began to escalate after this, and we began having conversations about how we needed to stop because we didn’t want our families to get hurt. I ended up going to her office after work one day, and sitting next to her at her desk. She took a service call, and while she was on the phone I started teasing her by rubbing her legs, and then I kissed the back of her neck. After this I left her office. The day after this meeting, through text messages I asked her what she thought about me kissing her on the mouth. She told me that it wouldn’t be a good idea, because we were already way too emotionally involved. I agreed to back off a bit, but told her I still wanted to come see her again at her office. I went there after work again, but this time I kept my hands to myself, and we just talked for about 20 minutes. When I left her office, on the drive home, I felt really horrible. I felt extremely guilty for getting myself in this mess. I felt like such a hypocrite because of how hurt I had been in the past by my wife. So I made a resolve in my mind that evening, that I was going to end things with her. I remember thinking that evening, about whether or not I should tell my wife. I was too afraid of the hurt that would cause her, so I just shut it out of my mind. I went to bed that night feeling very troubled and confused.

Next thing I know my wife is shaking me awake, and asking me what was on my phone? She started reading some of the texts between us. She read some of the stuff about me being so tempted to kiss her. I woke up in complete panic. I took the phone out of her hands, and immediately started deleting texts. It didn’t matter, because the cat was out of the bag. She was crying and shaking. It was a very long ugly night. It felt like a bad dream. I felt so horrible for letting things get that far. I told my wife that I was going to end it, and that I would not contact her again. Well, the next day I told the OW what was going on. My wife asked if I contacted her at all, and I lied and said no. That weekend we drafted a no contact email and sent it to her. A few days after that my wife kept asking me if I had warned her or contacted her at all before we sent the No contact email. I felt so guilty for lying to her, and so this time I told her the truth, and she was devastated.

After this I decided that if I really wanted to fix this, then I needed to tell my wife everything. I sent her all the email exchanges between myself and the OW. I had deleted the text messages, but I filled her in on every detail I could possibly think of. Even the stuff that I knew would hurt her the most. I told her everything, including the breast picture she sent me, which she never would have known about. I just wanted to get everything out there, and give us a chance at rebuilding. It has been about 8 weeks since D-day. I have not contacted the OW at all. My wife ended up calling the OW at her office the next week, and talking to her for about 20 minutes. There has been a lot of tears shed from both of us.

I know it may seem like I did this to get her back for her past emotional affairs, but that is not the case. I didn’t do it to intentionally hurt my wife. I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries. In the past there is no way that I would have emailed another female in a casual manner like that, but in my mind I kind of thought…”Why should I be so careful, if she’s not”… and that is where I started down the slippery slope of infidelity. Looking back now, I wonder what I was even thinking, because I see that I really didn’t even like the OW that much, but I made up some fantasy in my head, that built her up to be something that she wasn’t. For example, she is not near as pretty as my wife. My wife is absolutely beautiful. It is almost like I was using her to feel wanted in a way. Ever since my wife had her first affair, I felt like she didn’t really want me. It didn’t matter who this OW was, It was just the feeling of being wanted again that made me feel like a million bucks. I feel really bad about that, and I have no desire to ever contact the OW again.

So, where are we now 8 weeks later? We have good days and bad days. We have discovered that we can’t bring up the “Affairs” at all, because it always ends up with us comparing. If I bring up some of the stuff that happened with her boss or the other guy, she gets really upset, and starts telling me that my situation was so much worse, and then I start bringing up reasons why I think her affairs were so much worse. Anyway we have decided that we just cannot talk about certain things. We have become very close over the last 8 weeks. We have been going through what I have heard on this site is called, Hysterical bonding. She wants to have sex with me all the time. The first couple weeks she kept saying… “I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I just want to have sex all the time???”…

Bottom line is I was very selfish and stupid. I am very sorry for what I did. I feel horrible, and I want to make things right. I just thought I would throw this update out there to let everyone know where my situation is.
 

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Stop comparing. They are both equally bad.

So it looks like the score is even. You both did selfish things. I really think you both will get through this ok. Good luck.
 

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Update on my situation. A lot has happened since the last time I posted here. Back in December I mentioned my wife and I reading the book “Not just friends”… we did that, and then we read the book “His needs her needs” . We had some great discussions after reading these two books, and I felt that we were really making some progress. Then I went and did something really stupid... I had an affair…

At my work we have an “IT” department that helps us with computer issues, and one day there was a girl who helped me with my lap top. Afterwards I emailed her thanking her for being so nice, and I told her that she seemed like a really cool person. From there we really hit it off and you can only guess what happened. To make a long story short we began emailing on pretty much a daily basis, and got into details of our personal lives, including me telling her about my wife’s past Emotional affairs.

After a couple weeks I asked her to send me a picture, because I had no idea what she looked like. She sent me a picture, and I told her that she was very pretty, and then I sent her a picture of myself. Then we talked about meeting each other in person. We both agreed that it probably wouldn’t be a good idea since we were already attracted to each other. At this point I was aware that what I was doing was not right, and that I should stop. I began to justify things in my mind, and blame shift things in my mind back on my wife. I began to be very angry towards her for the emotional affair that she had with her boss. Ironic I know right?

So a little time had passed that we had said that we should never meet in person, and on the 24th of February, I was having a particularly terrible day, because it was that day two years ago, that my wife began texting her boss. So I emailed this OW, and asked her if we could meet in person. I told her that I was having a bad day, and that I would really like to meet her. So I drove to her work which is about 4 miles from my work. The company I work for Contracts out their IT service, so she works at another facility. We met for only about 5 minutes. I sat in my car, and she stayed outside. I actually invited her to sit in my car, but she said that wouldn’t be a good idea. We ended up meeting another time like this, and then nothing for a couple weeks. Then one day I told her that I would like to meet her away from her work. We ended up meeting at a Walmart parking lot for about 10 minutes, and at the end of our conversation I hugged her, and smelled her neck. Afterwards we pretty much expressed to each other that we were very attracted to each other, and that we needed to be very careful. At this point we began texting each other. The next week I wanted to meet her again, but she couldn’t, so I asked her if she would send me another picture, but this time a little lower. She ended up sending me a picture of her breasts.

Things began to escalate after this, and we began having conversations about how we needed to stop because we didn’t want our families to get hurt. I ended up going to her office after work one day, and sitting next to her at her desk. She took a service call, and while she was on the phone I started teasing her by rubbing her legs, and then I kissed the back of her neck. After this I left her office. The day after this meeting, through text messages I asked her what she thought about me kissing her on the mouth. She told me that it wouldn’t be a good idea, because we were already way too emotionally involved. I agreed to back off a bit, but told her I still wanted to come see her again at her office. I went there after work again, but this time I kept my hands to myself, and we just talked for about 20 minutes. When I left her office, on the drive home, I felt really horrible. I felt extremely guilty for getting myself in this mess. I felt like such a hypocrite because of how hurt I had been in the past by my wife. So I made a resolve in my mind that evening, that I was going to end things with her. I remember thinking that evening, about whether or not I should tell my wife. I was too afraid of the hurt that would cause her, so I just shut it out of my mind. I went to bed that night feeling very troubled and confused.

Next thing I know my wife is shaking me awake, and asking me what was on my phone? She started reading some of the texts between us. She read some of the stuff about me being so tempted to kiss her. I woke up in complete panic. I took the phone out of her hands, and immediately started deleting texts. It didn’t matter, because the cat was out of the bag. She was crying and shaking. It was a very long ugly night. It felt like a bad dream. I felt so horrible for letting things get that far. I told my wife that I was going to end it, and that I would not contact her again. Well, the next day I told the OW what was going on. My wife asked if I contacted her at all, and I lied and said no. That weekend we drafted a no contact email and sent it to her. A few days after that my wife kept asking me if I had warned her or contacted her at all before we sent the No contact email. I felt so guilty for lying to her, and so this time I told her the truth, and she was devastated.

After this I decided that if I really wanted to fix this, then I needed to tell my wife everything. I sent her all the email exchanges between myself and the OW. I had deleted the text messages, but I filled her in on every detail I could possibly think of. Even the stuff that I knew would hurt her the most. I told her everything, including the breast picture she sent me, which she never would have known about. I just wanted to get everything out there, and give us a chance at rebuilding. It has been about 8 weeks since D-day. I have not contacted the OW at all. My wife ended up calling the OW at her office the next week, and talking to her for about 20 minutes. There has been a lot of tears shed from both of us.

I know it may seem like I did this to get her back for her past emotional affairs, but that is not the case. I didn’t do it to intentionally hurt my wife. I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries. In the past there is no way that I would have emailed another female in a casual manner like that, but in my mind I kind of thought…”Why should I be so careful, if she’s not”… and that is where I started down the slippery slope of infidelity. Looking back now, I wonder what I was even thinking, because I see that I really didn’t even like the OW that much, but I made up some fantasy in my head, that built her up to be something that she wasn’t. For example, she is not near as pretty as my wife. My wife is absolutely beautiful. It is almost like I was using her to feel wanted in a way. Ever since my wife had her first affair, I felt like she didn’t really want me. It didn’t matter who this OW was, It was just the feeling of being wanted again that made me feel like a million bucks. I feel really bad about that, and I have no desire to ever contact the OW again.

So, where are we now 8 weeks later? We have good days and bad days. We have discovered that we can’t bring up the “Affairs” at all, because it always ends up with us comparing. If I bring up some of the stuff that happened with her boss or the other guy, she gets really upset, and starts telling me that my situation was so much worse, and then I start bringing up reasons why I think her affairs were so much worse. Anyway we have decided that we just cannot talk about certain things. We have become very close over the last 8 weeks. We have been going through what I have heard on this site is called, Hysterical bonding. She wants to have sex with me all the time. The first couple weeks she kept saying… “I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I just want to have sex all the time???”…

Bottom line is I was very selfish and stupid. I am very sorry for what I did. I feel horrible, and I want to make things right. I just thought I would throw this update out there to let everyone know where my situation is.
A revenge affair. With someone who was nowhere near as attractive as your wife?

That sounds exactly like what I did.

Everyone is capable of doing really stupid and hurtful stuff.

Especially after it has been done to them, first.

I hope and trust that you can both get through this mess. :)
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I feel like I let down my boundaries because of my wife’s lack of boundaries.

Nah you did it because you wanted to and while you were doing it you knew it was wrong.

You're a BS you should know. Every choice is a calculated decision.

You have zero excuses.
 
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