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My story begins 34 days ago (possible WW)

128K views 554 replies 65 participants last post by  Chuck71 
#1 ·
Hey all, first of all I want to say thanks for this forum. Finding it has been a breath of fresh air and has provided great information and consolation in the fact of knowing other men and women are going through what I am currently going through. Thanks in advance for all replies and time spent reading this.

My story begins on June 9. This was a day my wife, 2 kids and I(ages 2 and 5) were supposed to leave to take a family trip to the mountains along with my parents and sister's family. All good, right?

I talk to her at lunch and discuss logistics of when we are leaving, packing, etc... She sends me a picture of them celebrating her sales leader for the month at work, all that jazz.

I get home, go to the master bedroom and our bags are sitting there packed. I can immediately sense something is wrong from my wife's demeanor. Cue the 'stomach wrenching feeling'. I definitely can't recall what was exactly said that day as it's a blur by now, but she basically said she couldn't go on the trip. She didn't want to pretend in front of my family. She was tired of trying. "It shouldn't be this hard", etc...

I know it's cliche but i was pretty flabbergasted. I, like most people, thought we had a decent marriage. I'm not going to sit here and say it was great as we had our struggles. But there was definitely no incident in the previous couple of weeks like any sort of argument that would have triggered this. She just sounds emotionally drained(now that i read about WWs, the traits are similar) I don't do anything like beg, ask her about the kids, etc...I really am just mostly shocked and if i recall i pretty much hear her out on a few things and leave the room to be with the kids and try my best to keep it together. She takes a nap, then wakes up at 9pm to head to her sister's house.

****
Now, a little back ground. Rewind to 3 nights before, i giver her oral and we have great sex. This was preceded by us reading a big we got from our marriage retreat together and going over the sex chapter. She was turned on by it.

Next night she has a bit of a breakdown and says she is losing her faith. She joined christianity prior to us getting married 7 years ago and our lack of a "spiritual" connection has always been something she's brought up. Over the years we've tried reading books together. I've always supported her journey, have attended church with her on a semi regular basis; but am not quite where she is on the belief scale. She mentions the only thing keeping her trying in the marriage was her faith and without her faith she doesn't know if she can do it(red flag anyone...boy i should have saw this coming right then and there).

I console her and offer to pray with her. We finish the night with a BJ and anal sex. That sounds crass but I just want to give an idea of our relationship directly leading up to D Day.

***

Now, that marriage book i mentioned. It's christian based and it talked heavily about the role sex plays in a marriage and what's expected of wife and husband.

My wife has had a rough childhood, to say the least. Her mom had her at 14, and had 5 kids by the age of 23. Lots of men came in and out. Terrible things were done to my wife, and she's had **** bfs. Her dad treated her like ****. The whole 9 yards. She and I have been to counseling to discuss her past, and how to best navigate those waters in our relationship.

I think the book may have been a part of the trigger that set her off.
***
Now, back to d-day. Some of the other things she said, and has said before in counseling, is that she would be totally good with never having sex again. She sometimes feel asexual. She's tired of feeling the pressure to have sex, and that it wasn't me, but just being in a marriage brought her constant anxiety about it. I could go on but i think you get the gist of it. It is hard to explain if you haven't been with a victim of sexual abuse.
***

Well, she sleeps at her sister's for a few nights and i really don't contact her much. Intuition told me just to leave her alone as much as possible if i wanted any chance at salvaging this. She ends up getting a airbnb a few days later and informs me she is living there for the remainder of June.

Now, I am sure i ****ed up here as I probably should have just said no but I don't think i had much ground to stand on as we have joint accounts and she brings in an income. So i considered the cost of airbnb coming out of her income.

Anyway, fast forward a little bit and I'm a week into the guilt trip. Playing back everything in my head, "what did i do wrong? what can i do going forward" You all know it. The kind of reflection that drives you crazy. Well, maybe a week or week and a half later, she comes over to spend time with the kids(i have been keeping them all this time) and I notice her ring is off. So, as an emotional mess I can't keep it in and ask her what's up with that? She basically says that she doesn't know what she wants and she needs to work on herself. I don't remember her exact words. (Again, here is where i should have just said alright we are done now and silo'd her). We then go into the room and talk more(again, i shouldn't have done this but i was desperately seeking clarity). I still at this point never once asked her to come back, or say things like "what about the kids, me, etc" so I can at least cling to that, ha! But i do go into my spiel about how being alone gives so much time to reflect on things and look at the relationshp from an outsider's perspective. How I probably didn't love her the way she wanted to be loved (me thinking that providing everything for the family was good enough, possibly didn't help out enough with the kids, all that jazz) Basically a little bit of honesty and truth but quite possibly coming off as a sap. I just thought honesty at that point was the way to go, but I now know that just looks like it was all my fault for my wife getting to this point; which i know is not the truth.

But I didn't. I don't think i had discovered this forum yet but it was around this time where i found a thread where someone outlined like 35 steps on what to do. Maybe the 180 method, i'm not sure. I really liked it. I was already doing a few things, but made sure to add some more to my arsenal.

A few days go by and we don't talk much. She comes over to see the kids and she comes to talk in the room and talks about how "thanks for everything you said the other night; it's not all true. You did everything you needed, etc" Basically telling me not to beat myself up over it. "But", she says(there's always a but!)..."when i think about us and you in the future, I envision you with the kids and someone that loves you, and I don't feel anything. No jealousy, anger, etc"(code red anyone??) At this point i should have just saw the writing on the wall, but i was dumb, and stubborn, and just asked her one last thing: if she could consider going on a retreat for sexual trauma victims. I had it in my head that she dipping back into a worse mental state and that her past was to blame. (this still may be partially the case, that is up for debate).

Also at some point during the "talk" that night she says she's just tired of having to answer to anyone, doesn't want to feel obligated to have sex, wants to be able to do what she wants with her money(we had argued about how much she should donate to charity recently). Lots of different things all pointing back to basically wanting to not be tied down to anyone or have any sort of marital/family obligation. She talks about how she's jealous of my cousin who has his kid 7 & 7(the week off).

She ultimately agrees to go on the retreat and asks if we could wait until she returns before she makes a decision about us. It's so early on in the process i basically say OK. I mean at that point what else am I going to do?

***

There's about a 2.5 week period before the retreat ends so not much happens. I am still living with the kids, trying hard to focus on them. Taking them on outings, keeping them occupied outside, etc. We don't talk much outside of about the kids. At one point we text a bit and i basically just tell her I am good with wahtever the outcome of this retreat is, and to not go into it with expectations. She is very thankful and tells me she hopes it changes the way she feels about us, because that's what she wants.

***

Fast forward to end of the retreat(she texted me several messages and pictures, had a 30 minute convo about one of her sessions). Myself and the kids pick her up at the airport and she seems in good spirits. She recommends we take the kids to lunch so we do that.

We get home, put the kids down for a nap and she hands me a card she wrote the day before with an excerpt from the note being "I have also gained what i wanted here - peace and clarity. Whatever I do in love is the right decision for me. I love you. I hope you can see me"

So, at this point I really just want clarity on the situation so we go talk in the room and she basically says her feelings have not changed. The counselors there asked her what her idea of happiness was in 6 months and she says "to see my husband with someone that loves him unconditionally" and to be coparenting. Says she wants to be able to eat what she wants, do what she wants(uhhh, what? I never once told her she couldn't do these things, I was also the one who recommended she get out of the house and taking care of the kids, and pursue a real estate career. Which she did and has been great at itthis year)

But i knew not to try and argue and question tat reasoning with logic. I basically just told her I never did any of that, and she stated it wasn't me, just being in a marriage made her feel that way and that she didn't think she was cut out for the traditional marriage lifestyle.Felt invisible, etc "just a mom and wife"...

Anyway, at that point I get the message loud and clear. Now here's where it gets fun

*

Later that day I log into my cell phone plan to add some data. Both of our lines are on the plan, and i see the "data usage" link. I figure "why not, let me check". I keep seeing a number pop up, with some extremely long call times(2-5 hours. Yes, 300 minutes for one call). These calls go back several weeks, including while on her retreat. Ultimately i go back and and see the first time his number shows up is 2 days before D day.

Now, Some may call me naive, and sure I am; but just for full disclosure and honesty I never once considered the the possibility of another man in the picture. Again, this will probably come off as extremely naive as I'm sure most guys feel this way until it happens to them, but she held herself with high integrity, christian values, and absolutely despised cheaters. You guys are all probably laughing at me now, as you probably saw it coming from a mile away while reading all of that text, but what can i say. If i thought my spouse had that bone in her body i would not have married her. But, I'm just being real here. Opening myself up and being truthful.

I do some digging and the guy is a person she works with at the brokerage. I do more digging and his social media presence is very slim which is odd considering he's a RE agent and 32yo. I also find he has a long term GF that works in the same hometown I'm from. I have no idea if it's physical yet. It probably is if I'm being honest, but i have no proof. All i know is it would be hard to be physical at night as they are on the phone for hours just about every night, and she knows i know where she is so if i ever got a wild hair i could easily check in. Definitely possibly some day time stuff going on.

So, that's where we are. I am here a week later. I haven't told her anything. I haven't told the GF anything. Just my parents know(my dad's inital hunch at the very beginning was another man, i said it was the bottom of my list of concerns. Dad knows best...)

I did slip up and tell her Mom i know this past Saturday. I know how horrendously stupid that was. Like, seriously ****ing stupid. Her mom and i had been talking because my wife had cut her and all her aunts off from communication so her Mom would call me to check on the kids. I just held it in for a week and had to get it off my chest and she was within reach. She promised she wouldn't say anything. We'll see.

I've bascially kept it status quo with the wife for the past week. Minimal talking. She offered to take the kids this past weekend. It was so last minute I had no time to get any kind of decent VAR. I bought one from best buy but it was garbage and i didn't have a great place to conceal it. So, i set up my laptop in the room to use the Mic to listen to her call. However that was a fail because there is a time limit on the Windows voice recorder app. Also, when i returned Sunday my laptop was closed, lol. She never mentioned it so I wonder if she was tipped off? That was so clumsy of me. It was just a last ditched rush job to catch something on tape.

*

So, where do we go from here? When do I approach her about the long phone calls? Do i keep it on the down low until i can gain more info? She has told me several times "she doesn't want anything". I discussed selling the house and splitting the equity. "I don't want to take anything from you, this is all my fault" Of course that can change on the drop of a dime so I'm thinking i need to get some more solid evidence of promiscuity before tipping her off that i know(or before her mom says anything) When do I tell the other gf?

I have a consultation with my lawyer tomorrow. She is supposed to be a great advocate for father's rights. Anxious to see how it goes and what she's going to recommend. My thoughts for not confronting the wife about it now is i just want to keep her in her current good spirits of "i don't want anything" rather than rocking teh boat confronting her about this OM. Thoughts? Candid honesty is welcome! But really, just thanks for reading all this mess. It's cathartic to write it all out and get it off my chest.
 
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#2 ·
also, any GPS tracking devices/VARs you folks recommend? I really, really hate that i was too in a daze and filled with false hope earlier to not buy those sooner. She took the kids to her house the second night of the weekend so i'm thinking that combined with the laptop lid being closed she might be on to me trying to listen in on something.

Little does she know I still have access to phone records.
 
#522 ·
also, any GPS tracking devices/VARs you folks recommend? I really, really hate that i was too in a daze and filled with false hope earlier../etc.

I saw this on a thread on this site.
It is up to you what your ethics are or what you make of it. No idea what others experience of this sort of service is or what costs and pitfalls might be
 
#3 ·
She is already finished. Who cares at this point. Your wasting your time from this point forward. It has been told to you plain as day she is no longer interested..... multiple times. Get the message.....get the divorce.... and move on with your life.

What’s really going to happen: you will mentally anguish over every last detail... how come... why...who is he...why him....how do I win her back....why is he better than me.... I need details....I want answers.....I want people to dislike her.... I want our friends to choose me .....blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Dude ...... save yourself.... don’t bother.

It’s finished
 
#16 ·
As someone who went through the exact same thing, I agree with this 100%. See a lawyer quick. You won't get a better chance at getting an uncontested divorce with the best settlement possible.

I do not recommend taking full custody of your kids unless you feel you can handle being a single parent 24/7. You may not like HER right now but your kids don't know any better. They need both parents in their lives. I will also say that it's much easier to find women to date when you have shared custody than full custody. Modern dating already sucks. Don't add more hurdles unless you absolutely need to
 
#4 ·
I would do exactly what she suggested find someone who will love you and never ever look back.

She’s abandoning her husband and kids, she’s beyond help. Don’t try fixing her or suggesting anymore therapy or retreats or anything.

Grieve it, and again, find someone who loves you. You’re an absolute catch, there’s a broken heart out there just waiting for a loyal father and husband.

Find someone who loves you, and forget this emotional mess of a woman.
 
#5 ·
@mr married

Heh. Your second paragraph has been the last week. Honestly though, she called yesterday as it sounds she was having a break down after being *****ed out by her mother. I listened to her for about 10 minutes. After I got off the phone, i just sat there thinking "what are you doing? get your **** together". Called the lawyer this morning and set up my appt for 1:30 tomorrow.

I'm just saying it's not easy when kids are involved man. "get the message"...yeah in hindsight there were multiple things in that post where i should have immediately shut it down and called lawyer; but the family unit clouds judgement for sure. That, and my sympathy for her mental issues.

But, I get it. I'm past that. Ready to get this process rolling and be the best Dad i can be for my kids, because they need a strong, stable figure right now.
 
#7 ·
@mr married

Heh. Your second paragraph has been the last week. Honestly though, she called yesterday as it sounds she was having a break down after being **ed out by her mother. I listened to her for about 10 minutes. After I got off the phone, i just sat there thinking "what are you doing? get your * together". Called the lawyer this morning and set up my appt for 1:30 tomorrow.

I'm just saying it's not easy when kids are involved man. "get the message"...yeah in hindsight there were multiple things in that post where i should have immediately shut it down and called lawyer; but the family unit clouds judgement for sure. That, and my sympathy for her mental issues.

But, I get it. I'm past that. Ready to get this process rolling and be the best Dad i can be for my kids, because they need a strong, stable figure right now.
I like you already 👍

Try to keep your head down and keep plowing forward. No one will claim it isn’t difficult. You just have to do it.

There is a little cutie waiting for you on the other side...... you’ll see 👍
 
#8 ·
Move your money into your name only so she can’t spend or take all of what’s available (she will).
She left her kids - she’s capable of anything terrible.
Ask the court for 100% custody a d she can pay you child support. Take tax records and get proof of income to the attorney.
Close her credit cards unless they are in her name only…
Make sure she can’t swipe assets and put them in her name only.
Change passwords on everything…including the garage door opener.
Just start eliminating her from your life. She left a while back - this is just the result of it all.

Be done with her and move forward knowing she is t a good person and she sure isn’t a good wife or mother.
Of course her mother outed her. Anything you say to her mon will go immediately to the wife.

Just get the divorce filed and make sure you don’t look back.
 
#9 ·
I agree, go for full custody. She abandoned her kids to go screw another dude. I knew it three sentences into your first post.
You’re hurting. Your emotions will screw your over. Let your attorney take care of this. Full custody. That’s non negotiable. Have proof the kids have been with you the whole time for months. Get the best possible settlement.
Ignore any thoughts you have about being fair.
Forget the person you think she was. She’s not that person.

she’s been lying to you this whole time and making you think you’re the bad guy.

she’s a terrible mother, terrible wife, and terrible person. Don’t give her a pass because bad things happened to her years ago. Everyone has a past. These are her choices.
 
#10 ·
She's agreeing to give you primary of the kids and the marital home, free and clear, because she "doesn't want to take anything from you"? Do it now. Tell that lawyer to make printer go brrrrr, get those papers signed by her, and file them ASAP.

Also, her offer might be contingent upon her leaving with a spotless reputation. If you out the affair she may do a swift about face and fight for the kids and the assets. I'm going to go against my normal advice and say keep your mouth firmly shut until the paperwork goes through and then out her to all and sundry.
 
#13 ·
Absolutely positively correct. OP, you have a very short window to get her to do as she says. Hours , not days. When what little conscience she has goes away, her buds start putting ideas in her head about how she should get this and that, etc.——- you’re screwed.

if your lawyer doesn’t draw up the paperwork and she can’t sign it TODAY, get A lawyer who WILL. As MJEAN told you, it’s a matter of printing it out. Get it done. You will not have this chance for much longer. If you don’t get this done literally today, it will be a huge huge HUGE mistake.

please listen and take action.
 
#12 ·
omg. What is it with this for the children sakes?

she’s abandoned them. He has not mentioned EVER that he’s even considering keeping her away from her kids.

the fact is, she doesn’t want to be a mother anymore. The kids are BETTER OFF not seeomg a person like this and thinking she is what a mom really is like. But the OP has never even mentioned not letting her as the kids.
 
#15 ·
Hi there,

Having been in an unhappy marriage and having an affair in the past, from her reactions to you, she’s feeling guilty. If you think you can salvage the marriage, I would consider discussing it with her. No matter how hurt or pissed you might be, try not to show it and listen to her whys. Pay attention to what she’s getting from this other person that she thinks you aren’t giving her. It might not change her decision and she might not admit to it because she might be ashamed but you can at least know you tried.
Best wishes on everything.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Your wife is and has been neck deep into a sexual affair with a shiny new lover. If you look at the phone records you can probably spot when it started.

Betrayed spouse syndrome:
Swallow their lies (all cheaters lie a lot) because you can’t deal with the truth.
Blame yourself because if it’s your fault you can fix this. BS. She is having an affair because she wants to. Period. You didn’t make her a cheater. It’s 100% on her.
Do the infamous “pick me dance” or try nicing her back which will lower your status even more while making her shiny new lover look even better.

You are the only one that can make yourself a chump.
Get strong and stay there or you will put yourself in a long painful stay in limbo

Go into hard no contact now. See an attorney and get the divorce rolling. Right now she is having great porn star sex with her other man. Move fast or linger in hell.

Infidelity is a life long gift. LET HER GO. FREE YOURSELF.
 
#18 ·
Your wife is and has been neck deep into a sexual affair with a shiny new lover. If you look at the phone records you can probably spot when it started.

Betrayed spouse syndrome:
Swallow their lies (all cheaters lie a lot) because you can’t deal with the truth.
Blame yourself because if it’s your fault you can fix this. BS. She is having an affair because she wants to. Period. You didn’t make her a cheater. It’s 100% on her.
Do the infamous “pick me dance” or try nicing her back which will lower your status even more while making her shiny new lover look even better.

You ate the only one that can make you seem a chump.
Get strong and stay there or you will put yourself in a long painful stay in limbo

Go into hard no contact now. See an attorney and get the divorce rolling. Right now she is having great porn star sex with her other man. Move fast or linger in hell.

Infidelity is a life long gift. LET HER GO. FREE YOURSELF.
^^^This! Some of the best advice you will get
 
#19 · (Edited)
Right now is not the time to stand around flat footed living on hopium that she wakes up and gets it. My sister was a wayward and she never got it.

Beware of those telling you to try and save your marriage at all cost. You don’t have one to save since she’s out screwing her new boyfriend. Pastors, friends, family usually have no clue in dealing with a cheater/infidelity.

The one thing you need to get is they lie. A lot.
 
#20 ·
Hey all, thank you for all the advice and words.

Just for full transparency, she hasn't completely abandoned the kids. She has picked them up from day care some days and spent the afternoons with them, until she leaves at night to go back to her place. She calls to tell them goodnight, etc. Although they have only slept with her 2 nights of the last 33. The rest were at my house with me. Just wanted to get that out there; it's not a situation of full blown abandonment, fwiw.


So, I met with the lawyer today; and honestly i'm walking away more confused than ever. Louisiana is a backwards ass state, obviously; as we are the only state in the union that follows civil law, and not common law.

Basically, my lawyer's advice to me was to carry on as much as i can and wait out the 365 day period we have to be separated. The earlier i serve papers, the earlier i have to pay spousal support.

It was a ton of information and my head is spinning at this point. I told her my wife seems to want to have an "easy" splitup and not take anything...however even if we get that in writing, statute of limitations is 3 years and she can dissolve anything in writing and come back for her half.

This is ****ed.
 
#21 ·
Hey all, thank you for all the advice and words.

Just for full transparency, she hasn't completely abandoned the kids. She has picked them up from day care some days and spent the afternoons with them, until she leaves at night to go back to her place. She calls to tell them goodnight, etc. Although they have only slept with her 2 nights of the last 33. The rest were at my house with me. Just wanted to get that out there; it's not a situation of full blown abandonment, fwiw.


So, I met with the lawyer today; and honestly i'm walking away more confused than ever. Louisiana is a backwards ass state, obviously; as we are the only state in the union that follows civil law, and not common law.

Basically, my lawyer's advice to me was to carry on as much as i can and wait out the 365 day period we have to be separated. The earlier i serve papers, the earlier i have to pay spousal support.

It was a ton of information and my head is spinning at this point. I told her my wife seems to want to have an "easy" splitup and not take anything...however even if we get that in writing, statute of limitations is 3 years and she can dissolve anything in writing and come back for her half.

This is ****ed.
Does Louisiana grant at-fault divorces? I know it sounds bad but that is one way to avoid her coming back and going for it all. I personally would pursue an at-fault divorce if infidelity were to be discovered. It would get pretty messy though.
 
#22 ·
It does grant at-fault. Lawyer said that it is extremely tough to prove in louisiana court. I mean basically you need to have a camera in the room. Her writtten confession may not even be enough. We would have to get the other guy on the stand to.

Lawyer basically said i should avoid litigation at all costs and should work for settlement; which my wife seems to be on board with for now. It just doesn't really pay to file now or 330 days from now. If i file now i will probably owe spousal support until the divorce is served. So ****ty. Why the heck can't i just end this marriage given the circumstances. I have to deal with this for the next 330 days? I just want it to be over.
 
#25 ·
i file now i will probably owe spousal support until the divorce is served. So ****ty.
You mentioned some confusion. I'm asking how clear you are on how this all works.

In my state, alimony is calculated from the day of separation. If the payor waits 365 days (12 months) to file they are assessed alimony they owe for the preceding 12 months and start off in arrears. Before delaying filing make sure it is not the same in your state. If so, you're only delaying the beginning of payments and will owe her the set alimony plus arrears until arrearages are paid off.

Also, you want the courts involved as soon as possible, generally, when children are involved. As is, without a court order, your wife can legally take the kids to her place or even out of state and there is jack you can do about it unless/until you get a court order. Then there is the matter of child support and custody. You want it established you are the primary custodial parent before she has a dose of reality and decides to become mommy again. Also, there are legal liabilities spouses share. Without official separation or a divorce filing on record how open to liability are you should your wife decide to run up debt or get sued for a DUI? Can she just come back home any time she wants without a court order establishing she has her own residence?

I know Louisiana law is different than the rest of the country, but I think you may want to speak to a few more lawyers for 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions.
 
#26 ·
@johndoe12299 ,

Okay, thanks of the extra information! Knowing that you're in Louisiana helps a lot, and I can confirm a couple things for you that will help all this make more sense.

First, in Louisiana there are no-fault divorces and at-fault divorces, and adultery is one category of fault. BUT (and it's a big but...) in order to prove adultery you pretty much need to have a photograph of the spouse with another person as they are in the midst of making love. It's my understanding that you have "circumstantial" evidence such as calls to the same phone # for thousands of minutes...but not a photo by a PI. So you have the option to try to obtain a photo of your STBXW making love to the guy with all the phone calls, but honestly...she has moved out and it would look pretty much like stalking. Thus, the alternative, and the option usually used the most, is to file no-fault. If you file no-fault, you still would need to live apart for 365 days because Louisiana has you state a reason why you want a divorce, and they accept "we have minor children and have lived apart for 365 days".

Next, you technically "could" file your divorce at any time during the 365 days, but as soon as you do file, the first thing the courts will do is set something for after the 365 days...and the second thing will be to establish temporary child support, alimony, and custody. That temporary order will be in place and enforceable until the time apart has elapsed and the divorce can proceed. Therefore, essentially, if you file early, you will be court ordered to pay earlier. If you put off filing, you have the option to let her walk away for now and she won't be able to use the court to force you to pay her.

For the next 365 days, if you more or less just carry on as if she had passed away and you were the remaining parent who has to take care of his kids, you will actually do okay. This will give you a little time to read the Louisiana Divorce Laws: Civil Code 102-104 (click on 102 and read it and all amendments, then 103, then 104). The idea is for you to be INFORMED about what your state laws are. No one knows your situation and your case better than YOU! So arm yourself and get informed!!!

You want to learn about these laws because when the time does come 330 days from now, you want to know how the court will divide your assets and debts, and have some idea how the court will rule regarding custody and child support and alimony. If you read between now and the next three months and can document that you have the children 95% of the time and paid for 95% of their expenses...guess what? Likely they won't come after you for back CS ... AND you'll already have fairly split whatever assets and debts the two of you jointly held! Just look at the law and be realistic, remembering that court WILL NOT "punish" her for being wrong, being bad, or even being stupid. Court will only gather the list of all you own and owe, and split it like a business deal. Court will only look at who was primary taking care of the kids, who had them the most overnights, who earns what (or has the potential to earn), and split that in half.

In addition, during this year apart, you have a GREAT opportunity to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. That means, either write it down or take a photo you can print. For example, RIGHT NOW (Today) go buy a weekly planner type paper calendar, and write down on that planner when YOU have had the kids overnight, and when SHE had the kids overnight. In addition, jot down anything relating to the kids such as "picked them up from daycare" or "spent the afternoon" or "took Child#1 to doctor appointment"...because for custody judges usually look at OVERNIGHT, but if you can also document that you are their primary carer, you make your case much stronger. And the reason you document in a calendar and not just on your cell phone or by memory is this: you'll say "I have the kids more than she does" and she'll outright lie and say "Oh no we have them evenly, and since my income is 1/3 of his, I need him to pay me CS." Your memory will a) not be perfectly accurate and b) not be admissible as evidence in a court of law to prove that you do or do not have them more! BUT A CALENDAR IS ADMISSIBLE!!!! A calendar is a piece of paper you can turn over to the court and say "I have documents to show that I have had the kids for 300 overnights over the course of the past year, and she has had them 65 overnights. In addition, I can document that I am the primary carer because I go to the PTA meetings, go to the Parent/Teacher Conferences, take them to doctor appointments, and accompany them to all extra curricular events. Here is my calendar proving my statement."

Finally, during this year apart, you want to appear as the "rational and mature" spouse, and let her choose what type of spouse she choses to act like. If you raise your kids, do your best not to disrupt their lives, fairly divide assets such as bank accounts and cars, and essentially leave her alone...you'll be seen as dependable and reasonable. If she walks away from her kids, isn't involved in their lives very much, tries to take more than Louisiana Law says is her fair share...she'll be seen as unreliable and unreasonable. Take this time to show the court, by your action, that you are all about the kids and saving "the family unit" and if she wants to walk away (shrug) okay...let her. Make sense? I get it--this HURTS LIKE CRAZY, but if you just keep quiet, judges like to go with status quo. If she establishes status quo of YOU having custody and she just "visits" once a month, that's what they'll order! So just quietly let it happen.
 
#27 ·
@johndoe12299 ,

Okay, thanks of the extra information! Knowing that you're in Louisiana helps a lot, and I can confirm a couple things for you that will help all this make more sense.

First, in Louisiana there are no-fault divorces and at-fault divorces, and adultery is one category of fault. BUT (and it's a big but...) in order to prove adultery you pretty much need to have a photograph of the spouse with another person as they are in the midst of making love. It's my understanding that you have "circumstantial" evidence such as calls to the same phone # for thousands of minutes...but not a photo by a PI. So you have the option to try to obtain a photo of your STBXW making love to the guy with all the phone calls, but honestly...she has moved out and it would look pretty much like stalking. Thus, the alternative, and the option usually used the most, is to file no-fault. If you file no-fault, you still would need to live apart for 365 days because Louisiana has you state a reason why you want a divorce, and they accept "we have minor children and have lived apart for 365 days".

Next, you technically "could" file your divorce at any time during the 365 days, but as soon as you do file, the first thing the courts will do is set something for after the 365 days...and the second thing will be to establish temporary child support, alimony, and custody. That temporary order will be in place and enforceable until the time apart has elapsed and the divorce can proceed. Therefore, essentially, if you file early, you will be court ordered to pay earlier. If you put off filing, you have the option to let her walk away for now and she won't be able to use the court to force you to pay her.

For the next 365 days, if you more or less just carry on as if she had passed away and you were the remaining parent who has to take care of his kids, you will actually do okay. This will give you a little time to read the Louisiana Divorce Laws: Civil Code 102-104 (click on 102 and read it and all amendments, then 103, then 104). The idea is for you to be INFORMED about what your state laws are. No one knows your situation and your case better than YOU! So arm yourself and get informed!!!

You want to learn about these laws because when the time does come 330 days from now, you want to know how the court will divide your assets and debts, and have some idea how the court will rule regarding custody and child support and alimony. If you read between now and the next three months and can document that you have the children 95% of the time and paid for 95% of their expenses...guess what? Likely they won't come after you for back CS ... AND you'll already have fairly split whatever assets and debts the two of you jointly held! Just look at the law and be realistic, remembering that court WILL NOT "punish" her for being wrong, being bad, or even being stupid. Court will only gather the list of all you own and owe, and split it like a business deal. Court will only look at who was primary taking care of the kids, who had them the most overnights, who earns what (or has the potential to earn), and split that in half.

In addition, during this year apart, you have a GREAT opportunity to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. That means, either write it down or take a photo you can print. For example, RIGHT NOW (Today) go buy a weekly planner type paper calendar, and write down on that planner when YOU have had the kids overnight, and when SHE had the kids overnight. In addition, jot down anything relating to the kids such as "picked them up from daycare" or "spent the afternoon" or "took Child#1 to doctor appointment"...because for custody judges usually look at OVERNIGHT, but if you can also document that you are their primary carer, you make your case much stronger. And the reason you document in a calendar and not just on your cell phone or by memory is this: you'll say "I have the kids more than she does" and she'll outright lie and say "Oh no we have them evenly, and since my income is 1/3 of his, I need him to pay me CS." Your memory will a) not be perfectly accurate and b) not be admissible as evidence in a court of law to prove that you do or do not have them more! BUT A CALENDAR IS ADMISSIBLE!!!! A calendar is a piece of paper you can turn over to the court and say "I have documents to show that I have had the kids for 300 overnights over the course of the past year, and she has had them 65 overnights. In addition, I can document that I am the primary carer because I go to the PTA meetings, go to the Parent/Teacher Conferences, take them to doctor appointments, and accompany them to all extra curricular events. Here is my calendar proving my statement."

Finally, during this year apart, you want to appear as the "rational and mature" spouse, and let her choose what type of spouse she choses to act like. If you raise your kids, do your best not to disrupt their lives, fairly divide assets such as bank accounts and cars, and essentially leave her alone...you'll be seen as dependable and reasonable. If she walks away from her kids, isn't involved in their lives very much, tries to take more than Louisiana Law says is her fair share...she'll be seen as unreliable and unreasonable. Take this time to show the court, by your action, that you are all about the kids and saving "the family unit" and if she wants to walk away (shrug) okay...let her. Make sense? I get it--this HURTS LIKE CRAZY, but if you just keep quiet, judges like to go with status quo. If she establishes status quo of YOU having custody and she just "visits" once a month, that's what they'll order! So just quietly let it happen.
Wow great post full of information. The lawyer i met with today talked to me about 102/103/104. I just left feeling confused on what my next steps should be. It was more of a 2 hour session on louisiana divorce law rather than her hearing my situation and giving me the best advice for what my goals are.

You seem to be well versed...is there any advantage to my wife and I going in now and filling out the "settlement" paperwork. The lawyer made it clear I don't want to go to litigation and that i should reconcile or settle.

*
Side note: I ****ed up again. Lawyer wouldn't take Amex and my only card was debit card linked to joint bank account. What do you know, wife sees the lawyer charge on statement today and calls to ask if i'm trying to get full custody. I told her I was just meeting with a lawyer to get legal advice. She was alarmed that this particular lawyer, according to her website, focused on "father's rights".

I told her I would still like to settle and she wants to meet tomorrow to discuss how to split things. The tide is already to slowly shift from "i don't want to take anything from you" to when i asked her about child support she said "what do you feel comfortable giving?" I can see where this is headed. She is worried about how she's going to support herself and wants money to do things with the kids when she has them. She continued to stress she doesn't want to get lawyers involved so I think i will just walk on eggshells, not rock the boat too much, and give her a bit to keep her from lawyering up and coming after half of everything. I'm not sure what else my play should be at this point.

We are getting lunch tomorrow. I will make sure to record everything on my phone. I also told her I want the whole truth. I told her I'm not stupid; she said she wanted to talk about it in person. I think by this point she knows that I know, probably from the Mom.

So, yay, i get to hear about this other guy straight from the horse's mouth tomorrow.

It has been rough tonight, especially after that call. I can't stop crying. It hurts so much. I should hate her ****ing guts. I somehow keep feeling guilty. I keep thinking "well damn i could have just done this, done that. Why wasn't i more romantic?" I've just been exhausted. I know i played a role in this; just not anywhere as big as I'm feeling. Just when i think I'm beginning to move past, something just sets me back. It's just the swiftness and speed at which this happening and how it doesn't seem to effect her at all. I know she's been preparing for this and has a guy so it makes it easier, but it's just a huge slap in the face and a shot to my self confidence. I wasn't some bum. I got a promotion earlier in the year making 150K, got my MBA and got state licensure. I'm not a bad looking guy. How can this person i thought i knew just move on from a marriage and family so easily? For a guy who just started in real estate? It's not even like she's moving up; which makes it worse. Looks wise, probably. But that won't sustain it. I know it wasn't perfect, we did things to attempt to correct it, but I never once abused her in anyway, did lots to make her happy. I'm just sitting here like I'm in a nightmare I can't wake out of.

Every time i see my kids i just want to start crying. They don't deserve this. They didn't sign up for being tossed around houses every week. They deserve their mom and dad. Why do i want her back? Why do I keep envisioning a history of us having a great relationship when it probably wasn't that great? It's just the ultimate game of wanting what you can't have. It's brutal.

/vent
 
#28 ·
She's also saying she doesn't want to be told when she can see her kids. Her signing off on full custody is def off the table. She keeps saying she doesn't know what she wants custody-wise in settlement because she doesn't know her living situation, location wise and financially.(she's new real estate agent so no stable income).


Really, I see her regretting what she signs off of and just comes back for more money later in the 3 year period. We shall see.

I'll update after tomorrow's talk
 
#33 ·
Bud her shiny new lover will be in her ear. You see this all the time. In the end she’ll probably like most take everything she can get. A friend of mines wife abandoned her kids upfront then woke up and got them 50% for the child support.

She’s a cheater. You can’t believe anything she says. Her actions say she doesn’t give a damn about you or the kids. This is as part of who she is. Wake up to the facts. Stay out of denial. You’ll be a lot better off.
 
#29 ·
Should we just talking about divvying up the assets and not even give her a chance to talk about the affair? Just tell her I'm over it and don't care? Only plus is I can get it on audio if needed later. I'm sorta leaning towards just showing no interest in it and not "needing an explanation"...

I messed up so hard by telling her Mom i know. That was my one ace up the sleeve and i totally let it out of the bag.
 
#31 ·
I know I would not be able to hold in what you know about the affair. Obviously you don't have all the details, but she is talking to another man for hours on end rather than you, that is an affair plan and simple. I personally would want to at least say I know this is really about you having an affair with another man, not they story you have been feeding me. What I don't know is if that will really make things any better for you.
 
#32 ·
Divorce and get full custody based on the fact that you’ve been taking care of then full time.
the more custody you have, the less you’ll pay in child support. That’s why she will start getting the kids more. She will go for 50/50 custody on paper so you’ll pay out the tail on child support. It she will still have you keep them probably 90/10.

get an aggeemwnt hashed iut and this all settled. It isn’t nearly as easy to get this stuff changed and you might think, unless they agreement is really unreasonable.

there’s no need in discussing the AP with her. It will just hurt you more. All your emotions are normal. It will take a long time to get right again, months. Probably a couple of years. But you’ll make it.
All you’ll get if you discuss the other man is to hear her spin things where it makes her look not so bad, excuses...... there is nothing she can say that won’t hurt you. And 95% of it will be a lie. You’ll be enraged because you’ll know it’s a lie, and things will go south. Don’t listen and stop her before she starts in about it.

yes, you are going to get totally ****ed in the divorce, because your wife is a selfish ***** and the law backs up women like her. So get used to the idea.

But, get an agreement at light speed while she still has a little remorse and her buds haven’t had time to educate her on how badly she can screw you over. The sad thing is, the system gives huge rewards to women who do exactly what your wife has done.
 
#34 ·
OP so sorry you are here!
I was in your shoes, sort of, 10 years ago. My wife of 30 years suddenly left, I had no idea. Fortunately for me my youngest child was a Sophmore in College so I did not have the "kid issue". Feel free to look at my old thread and you will see what a basket case I was. Couple of things you need to know:
1. The affair is not your fault. No matter what you did or didnt do, the affair is on her.
2. When dealing with this situation you will make MANY mistakes! Dont let them get you down. Are they better to not have happened? of course. But just learn from them (you seem to be doing an excellent job of that) and strive to do better.)
3. When ever a decision is needed.... MAKE IT! Limbo sucks the soul dry! (you are doing great, top 10% of people on this)
4. The only thing that is going to help is time. Time away from her, time with your kids, time for you to put yourself back together. After my divorce I lost 2 years. I literally could not really function, if not for great employees I would of lost my business. I thought about my situation time after time after time, I could not stop. Now 10 years later its like a long ago dream, thank god! (funny fact, that only NOW while writing this response did I realize that 4 days ago was the 10 year anniversary of my DD. Only now! LOL for 3 years I had to get my self mentally ready to face "July 10th!" )
5. Never bad mouth her to the kids. They will figure it out for themselves at some point. Be a rock for them, be positive for them, smile with them, laugh with them, ignore anything to do about her.
6. Watch out for her to make a few moves to keep you available as plan B. Never, ever be a Plan B.

Good luck to you. Need to sound off? Nothing better than this place. Listen to ALL that is said. Some you wont agree with but listen to it all before you decide. One last thing. When my xw left after 30 years, her only insturctions to her attorney was to get it done fast. She gave me a list of 12 things she wanted some crazy things, like a picture frame made of barb wire! and $50k. Had she fought she could of got $500k! I just agreeded to anything she wanted so her wish could come true, a quick divorce, it took us just over 90 days! (Indiana has only no fault divorce, which I thought sucked, but they allow a quick out which was great for me, as she did not have time to change her mind about what she wanted) Keep your head down and ACT.

Hoosier
 
#37 ·
Met her at her place this afternoon to discuss logistics of the kids the next few weeks. We talked over the plans over the next month or so. She will be taking the kids a couple nights a week.

Before i left she said she had a list of things she wanted to say. The usual; i waited for her to finish and said i can't believe anything you say because you lied this whole time about the guy.

So, i got her to admit to seeing him(she didn't outright say they slept together so bad news for the VAR), she said she didn't want to tell me because she didn't want to think that was the only reason for splitting up and not other stuff int he 10 years we've been together, lol. So i just tell her if there were any marriage threatening issues the answer was communicating those to me and not sleeping with another guy.

She mainly held her head down crying most of the time. I couldn't get her to tell me how long it's gone on. But then told her don't worry about it because i won't believe anything you say. Earliest phone record i found is 4 weeks ago(when she left) but could have easily been physical before the first phone call. I asked about whether the guy's girlfriend knows, she said yeah and that she ended it. I've reached out to her to confirm.

That was that and I left, right after she asked if i was going to tell the kids. No i'm not going to tell my 5 year old their mom left a great life for one off with some shmuck RE agent. They'll be grown adults before they hear the truth. She'll have to live with that the rest of her life.

Big weight is off my chest. Will obviously still take a while, but this is a step in the right direction. Having to think about my wife with another dude is a sickening feeling but what are ya gonna do. Time heals all.
 
#40 · (Edited)
@johndoe12299 ,

I have a few thoughts:

The first is that no matter what advice you get here on this forum, remember that we are NOT lawyers or legal experts IN YOUR STATE...you lawyer is. As I see it, our job here is to tell you generally "how it goes" or what is likely to happen based on our experience. I've been on this forum for eleven years and been through a divorce and the death of a spouse, plus I am interested in the law so I actually just read it for fun. (Geeky, I know). But I'm not a laywer! So I'll do my best to give you general ideas, and you take the ones that make sense to you or work for you and ask your lawyer about them. Okay? Your lawyer knows YOUR STATE'S LAWS because they are in the trenches. But bear one thing in mind: lawyers do not work "to give you the best legal advice for your individual situation"...they work for billable hours. Their job is to get as many billable hours as possible. Just don't confuse that with "doing what is best for you." Okay?

Next, it seems to me that if you and your STBXW are able to agree on how to split assets and debts and whatnot, then agree to that. If you look at your divorce laws and use a Louisiana Child Support Calculator (like this one: Calculate Child Support Payments in Louisiana) just put in realistic numbers and that's going to be roughly what you may or may not pay in child support. If your kids are under 5yo and you two can agree to a custody plan, then agree to that. My point here is that the more you can agree to, the better...BUT remember that her goal right at the moment is probably to get away so she can be with the boyfriend, and your goal is probably to get as much time with your kids as possible. Soooo...as soon as she is able to get away to be with the boyfriend, she may begin to see it's not all a bed of roses, they can't pay the bills, she can't see her kids, etc. and the tune will change. So if she is agreeable now, it may be a good time to BEGIN to agree to things and get what you can in writing, but it's likely it will change or be challenged during the year of required separation for abandonment.

Next, in your state, there are only two options for custody: joint or sole. I would recommend that you open with joint because it makes you come off as the parent who's willing to be cooperative. Offer joint legal custody and physical custody, but with a little twist. MY OWN physical custody was structured so that my house was the "home base" and the kids had their beds, toys, friends, and stuff at my house...and they could liberally visit their father any time that he or they arranged for a visit. At his house, he had a "spare bedroom" that they could use if they stayed overnight on a weekend, but on a week night he'd just bring them home at the end of the night and let them sleep at my house. I did not go for any alimony but I did request child support since I had them so much...but I asked for it to just be split 50/50 for our households. I got the kids as tax deductions.

Now, on the one hand you might say "WAIT! If I have the kids 95% of the time, I want CS from her! Why should I pay CS if she doesn't have them?" Here's my reasoning: my exH just wanted to go chase skirt. He got his freedom. And my kids got the best opportunity for a stable home. He earned WAY more money than I did (he made $100k+ and I made $25k), so I wanted him to experience the financial responsibility of the kids he helped make. It turned out to be $800/mo. But it was a zillion times more important to me that they have a stable home base! So yeah, to some degree he got let off the hook and "got away with it" --but to me, I was free of him and I knew I could take care of the kids just fine.

Once you've agreed to some asset division, and some debt division, and joint legal custody (that means she gets to make decisions with you), and physical custody with you as "home base" and her with liberal visitation any time she arranges it...she (your STBXW) may feel like you're being pretty fair, and you can take those agreements to your lawyer. Your lawyer can determine the best time to file, get the papers ready, and if you two agree you can co-petition and both sign once the year is over. That would be ideal.

Now in REAL LIFE, it's rarely ideal. But that doesn't mean you can't try to behave as close to this as possible. In real life, splitting assets and debts down the middle is kind of easy. In real life, she's going to get SOME custody. In real life, the judge will likely order some amount of child support, so why not look at a calculator and be as realistic and fair as you can be? Then you can continue to be reasonable as long as she is being partly reasonable. When she goes off the rails, you have a lawyer to protect you. But if, by the grace of God, she never goes off the rails, then you have a relatively civil interaction.
 
#41 ·
Nothing unusual. Typical cheater scrip. The important thing is you are starting to wake up. Now you see she’s just a very typical wayward nothing special about her at all.

This is important. Communicate only by text or email. Kids or D only. No phone calls made or answered. On pickups/drop offs keep it to 2-3 minutes. Be civil but short. You don’t go into her place or allow her into yours. You will probably get the “let’s be friends”. That is for her not you. It’s to relieve her guilt. We’re friends so he’s ok with what I’m doing. Or the “do it for the kids” thing. She’s never once thought about the kids but she’s more than willing to use them against you for herself. Kids will adjust to a no contact policy. I’ve seen it done well. LEARN TO IGNORE. You don’t owe her anything now.

No contact is important so you don’t keep yourself in this. Make no mistake you are the only one that can keep yourself in limbo.
 
#42 ·
I spoke to the other guy's GF today. They've been in a relationship 7 years. She basically caught them the first time we think he went see her 4 weeks ago, around after D day. She says she can't find anything from before then so it's looking likely that she left me and met up with him a couple days later. I can't tell if ol girl is in denial or not but he's still living with her??? She basically said she cut him out of her life but he's still there. I didn't get into details of their living arrangement. But he was basically just telling her that "she was in a bad spot" so he was talking to her, lol.

So i told her there are dozens of hours of phone records i have, that although i don't have her admitting to sex on the VAR, she admitted to "it" lasting the last 4 weeks. And judging from how emotional her response was, i know there is sex involved.

Anyway, here's the kicker. The girl tells me that she's the breadwinner and that the guy hasn't ever really held a job. He just started in real estate but isn't making any money.

How's that for a kick in the gut? That's even worse for my self confidence. I know i shouldn't be thinking this but all I'm thinking now is "were my flaws that bad? to drive my wife to leave the family for a dude with absolutely nothing going for him? Was i that oblivious to the issues?"

Also, no surprise, but she wants CS now. She spoke to a lawyer today and all of a sudden she wants the kids half the time. She "couldn't focus on the kids while worrying about how to make money". It's either give her some money or she can just file papers and the courts will force me to pay. She wants to avoid litigation. I'm going to get a 2nd opinion from a lawyer monday, and see if pushing the "unfit mother" angle is worth the time and money.
 
#44 ·
Currently debating between exposure or not. Just read this article:

My reservation is that in LA basically immediately once papers are served, I'm required to start paying CS and Alimony. Right now, she doesn't want alimony, just help with CS. She is good with not filing any papers and me just sending her some money every month. Exposing her will almost positively piss her off and the consequences would very likely be her filing and also requesting alimony. So, while I would love to show everyone the truth, including her employer since they work together; it seems it would be an unwise financial move. I will verify with 2nd lawyer opinion Monday, but it seems it's in my best interests just to suck it up and bear it, at least unitl the 365 days have passed and we file. Then, you can't get back pay in CS and alimony.
 
#59 ·
My reservation is that in LA basically immediately once papers are served, I'm required to start paying CS and Alimony. Right now, she doesn't want alimony, just help with CS. She is good with not filing any papers and me just sending her some money every month.
Run this by a lawyer. In my state anything given outside the court is considered a "gift" unless by check or money order with "for child support" written on the memo line or with a written and signed, by the payee, receipt. Find out exactly what your legal obligation to your STBX is and how to keep records to submit to the court should it be necessary.

Probably a topic for a different thread...but about the single mom thing. I mean, i'm a single dad. How many women with no kids want to date a dude with that baggage?
Why a woman with no kids? Not judging. Just curious.

I was 24, on the way out of a bad marriage, with 2 kids, when I met my DH. He was also 24, had never been married, and did not have children or even know anybody who did. He'd never imagined anyone with kids, but we fell in love instantly and he adjusted his thinking to include kids. I, however, wasn't so flexible in my thinking. I DID NOT want a man with kids. First, I didn't want a man who had that kind of bond with someone else. Second, some kids are just jerks. Third, baby momma drama. And, finally, having kids of my own with an absent ex was complicated enough.

My friends, however, have all seriously dated or married men with kids. It seems a lot of people are fairly flexible in terms of whether or not kids are a dealbreaker. Your behavior and the kids behavior really make a difference here. If you're healthily detached from the ex with good boundaries and your kids are well behaved and respectful I don't think you'd be disqualified by many women.
 
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