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It's freaking hard with the kids involved. I keep flip flopping on what to do. Everything you guys are saying is right, then i hear her and i start thinking that this could be different. And i'll never know if she's telling me the truth about how things ended. She says she "woke up" one day and realized how much she scrwed up, but there's no way to tell if that's true or if the OM dumped her. Really, that's just a small piece to this puzzle anyway.

The poster that asked if i would date this person without our history and just knowing what she's capable of...that hit hard. I guess at the end of the day it is just really hard to break off this relationship knowing the shockwaves it will cause, mostly with our kids. Part of me feels like i owe it to them to give this a shot and do things differently.
Dude you didnt do this, she did, your kids will understand when they’re older and respect you for it. You can still be a good dad and her a good mum. It’s possible that she woke up, but be honest with yourself, how likely is that? Also what happens when she falls asleep again?

I have said this before, but bares repeating, personal change is really really hard, you might think she’s going to be different, you might think you’re going to be all no more mr nice guy, but the old patterns will reassert themselves without massive effort on both your parts.

Are you willing to gamble your life on a known loser? I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but you have been a respect worthy guy in your handling of things so far. So I think you have the strength to follow this through and be happier and stronger as a result.

it’s your life at the end of the day, so take the advice with as much salt as you want, and if things don’t work out, it still won’t throw any shade on you
 

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My opinion (speaking as a female) is that she got dumped and now she wants you back to make life easier. It’s been obvious for quite awhile that you want her back. Only you know the real answer as to why you would but I do think you’ll reconcile and very likely live to regret it so take your time. My guess is that she’ll try to lock you down sooner than you’re ready for — to make sure you don’t escape. Don’t buy it. Lots and lots and lots of time benefits you, not her. Keep that in mind.
 

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I think you are handling it as best as a man can.

are you two saying you are exclusive or are you going out with other women?

I think you are absolutely correct in going through with the divorce. You were right when you told her that the old marriage is dead and that she killed it. I think that starting a new relationship with her after the divorce is finalized is a good idea to see if you are interested in her in thus new relationship.

but I also believe that Openminded may be correct in to the true nature of the breakup with her boyfriend/lover. I would suggest that you tell her that you will be making an appointment for her to take a polygraph test to verify that you have been given the entire truth. Her reaction might give you all you need to know. You might also want to keep an eye on her internet searches for phrases like “how to beat a polygraph”, etc.

once again, I think you are doing great. Keep moving straight ahead out of this hell that she put you in.

good luck and stay strong.
 

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It's freaking hard with the kids involved. I keep flip flopping on what to do. Everything you guys are saying is right, then i hear her and i start thinking that this could be different. And i'll never know if she's telling me the truth about how things ended. She says she "woke up" one day and realized how much she scrwed up, but there's no way to tell if that's true or if the OM dumped her. Really, that's just a small piece to this puzzle anyway.

The poster that asked if i would date this person without our history and just knowing what she's capable of...that hit hard. I guess at the end of the day it is just really hard to break off this relationship knowing the shockwaves it will cause, mostly with our kids. Part of me feels like i owe it to them to give this a shot and do things differently.
Cut the contact. I know two who coparent using the grey rock methods. It only works if you use it.
 

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Why do you have to make that decision right now? Get a divorce. Separate your connection to the old marriage that died. If she's serious she will stick around. Or conversely you don't have to jump on this... let the divorce drag out and see what she does. It takes time to even trust a druggie or an alcoholic to prove they are really trying to get clean
. Why is this situation different? Why not work through it slowly and with diligence.. as you said it's a big decision?

The reason you want to even jump back in, I would presume, is that you are still enamored with the old image of her. And this new epiphany is reminiscent of that I image.

Let's eliminate your excuses.
1 you proved to yourself you could raise the kids without her. Kids are resilient. It's better to live in 2 homes that are halfway decent then a single that's fully disfunctional?
2. You proved you dont need her as validation for your security
3. You can move on.


And the real question until she proves otherwise like many people on these forums have show in bad rs what's to stop her from 1 year from now saying, the sex isnt good enough, your not good enough, it's not you it's me I need to move on, etc...? You have no basis for investment your most precious commodity in this relation, you time(its way to limted).

If a company goes bankrupt and they ask you for 100k and they will return it 10x fold, would you invest? What if you already gave them 100k and they squandered it and do not offer you thier financials, buisness plans, and what they are going to do differently. They show, until the bankruptcy that they havent done anything differently except cross a few ts and dot a few i's? Would you really give them your last 100k? Some might.. because they are desperate to prove that they weren't wrong the first time.

OP take your time. There is no rush. Sit down and evaluate actions that are befitting of your long term investment. The actions must be at the same level of your what you value yourself at. If you dont you will grow resentful. Right now your view of yourself is still affected by he actions... wait u till you get your own issues together before you try to make that choice.


Sorry for typos and bad grammar lol Forgive me. I hope my point got across and it was helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #446 ·
so to the folks saying take your time...how do we do this? And to the others asking about dating other people while this is going on...i'm of the opinion that it's either work on your marriage or cut ties...there's no working on your marriage while dating other people, imo.

Just date her and take it slowly? see how things to up until divorce and after?
 

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Tell her that the divorce is going to happen no matter what.

she is being demoted from wife to girlfriend, and it is still up in the air as to whether she will be further demoted to ex-girlfriend.

Have you to talked about exclusivity while you are in this stage? Has she made any promises?

not sure how much faith I would put into any promise she makes up you around exclusivity, as she has already proven that she has no problem breaking a vow.

good luck, stay strong, and do what you must FOR YOU!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #449 ·
side note...has anyone iTT read 'Women's infidelity"? Talk about eye opening. I hate the title of it actually because i feel like everyone would benefit from reading this book, not just people dealing with infidelity.

I've done a crap ton of reading the last 3 months:

Hold on to your nuts
Marriage man life primer
no more mr nice guy
womens infidelity 1 & 2
how to help your spouse recover from an affair
the dead bedroom fix
the rational male

next up is His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters

any other recs?
 

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so to the folks saying take your time...how do we do this? And to the others asking about dating other people while this is going on...i'm of the opinion that it's either work on your marriage or cut ties...there's no working on your marriage while dating other people, imo.

Just date her and take it slowly? see how things to up until divorce and after?
I would not introduce others into this right now and would expect her to do the same.
 

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side note...has anyone iTT read 'Women's infidelity"? Talk about eye opening. I hate the title of it actually because i feel like everyone would benefit from reading this book, not just people dealing with infidelity.

I've done a crap ton of reading the last 3 months:

Hold on to your nuts
Marriage man life primer
no more mr nice guy
womens infidelity 1 & 2
how to help your spouse recover from an affair
the dead bedroom fix
the rational male

next up is His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters

any other recs?
Take anything with a grain of salt.
 

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It's freaking hard with the kids involved. I keep flip flopping on what to do. Everything you guys are saying is right, then i hear her and i start thinking that this could be different.
Okay..... I "thought" you were riding out the D and then moving on.....Lil story for you JD and I've told it

a dozen times on here. When 1st love and I broke up, I was miserable. I did the begging / pleading to

no avail. I got on with my life, as did she. Right when I started to connect with someone else, she came

after me like a freight train. -Maybe it's better the second time around- We got back together...it was not

the same, not by a long shot. The break up was in spring 1990, and we were through by beginning of 1991.

You can copy exactly what I said above and replace the person with 2nd love...and change the dates to

1993 and 1996. Do you see a pattern JD? It never was the same.

Your WW left you high and dry with two young kids....and she abandoned the kids for how many days? My XW

pulled almost the same thing your WW did and I never even cared if mine cheated or not, just her walking out

was enough for me. I have never regretted that decision. Our DDay was nine years ago next month.

JD....How long do you think it will be before this happens again? The reason I, and others, stress living

apart is you will see a different "her" than you are seeing right now. She will always be a part of your life

because of the kids.... but you don't have to allow her to ruin your life.

JD....the way she is acting now.... has she ever acted this way before? Maybe if she put as much into the M

before, as she is trying to now.... she never would have given AP the time of day. But she abandoned you, her

kids and wanted to be a naughty girl. When the AP was through with her, she came back home in shame.

If your best bud from HS was in this situation.... what would you tell him?
 

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You have two littles. One of you needs to be a stable parent. Guess who isn't up to, doesn't want to be nor applying to be a full-time parent?

Don't emotionally jerk these kids around with the on/off routine. She's proved she doesn't want a family full-time and even told you. Believe her.
 

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JD....the only reason why she is love-bombing and texting you all day and night is she does not

want you to have time to "think." The more time you have, to "think," the more time you have to

evaluate all the crap she did to you, and the kids. Remember Day #7, when you were devastated

she left you and the kids wondered where mommy was? She was on AP like a cheap suit.

Remember that....
 

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She met with lawyer last week and suddenly she wants the kids, now that she gets CS and doesn't have to "stress how she will make money and can enjoy kids more".
Post #68...... This was your WW.....at first no SS nor CS. Then she wanted SS and CS. In her illogical head space,

she miraculously thought her and AP would settle down, and be a family. Crazy, yes... but look who we are talking

about. Since APs live-in was the breadwinner, WW thought she would have to be as well. But... she's got the AP!

WW wins, APs g/f loses, her BH (you) loses. She's got her AP, SS, CS...she's starting to bring in a paycheck.... -OMG

my new life will just be super duper fab- In her mind....she believes this will all play out perfectly.

JD..... I've been on these boards nine years. Your WWs thoughts are actually par for the course.

While your WW had all these dreams in her head, the AP began second guessing everything. -Now she wants

her kids 50%, I'll have to watch them while she's at work, we can't have sex much when they're here, she will

want me to go with them (WW / kids) as a family.... etc....- AP ponders this for a few weeks -Oh hell.... I had it

better with g/f, she works, I mooch, and no kids!- He bailed on WW. After three days of tissue induced snot

slinging, WW realized her fantasy was gone. She composed herself, tucked tail, and crawled back to YOU.

She was going to give you up for Jefferson Darcy. Let that sink in JD. You were in her rear view mirror.

Her childhood has a lot to do with her actions. Your WW is stunted emotionally. I will pull a previous post

to explain this.
 

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#212
· 5 mo ago

Jeff...... if you look back at past threads one thing you will find with WS is the fact most suffered through very traumatized childhoods. Now that alone does not destine them to be a WS. But what makes it more likely is the fact they never dealt with the trauma from their youth. It's human nature to avoid returning to a place of pain. But it is very unhealthy. If a said WS faced their first trauma at age 11 and it was never resolved or dealt with internally....that said person becomes emotionally stunted. It's like they stop growing emotionally.

Most learn the ability to cover it up extremely well as they reach adulthood. On the surface, it is not seen. But whenever this person faces stress, depression, or a life changing event, they will revert back to the emotionally stunted 11 year old. This is why so many people are amazed at the odd behavior a WS will exhibit.

When one grows up in low or no boundaries they are grounded in this ideal. Now it is put on a backburner when they "fall into chemical love." No drugs but the dopamine's rush, the high of falling. This is a catalyst in why even some healthy M fail too. Once you're M, starting a family, career.... it's easy to get away from "woo'ing" your spouse like you did in the beginning.

But if you look closely.... those with no boundaries start showing mini red flags not too long into the LTR. The mini's aren't "end the LTR potential" alone but many mini red flags do begin adding up to major. People "bandage themselves up really good" during the early LTR stages. Slowly.... at around six months the bandages start falling off. One by one by three by seven. Now when one is "falling in love" it can easily look over mini red flags. But the WS will counter a bandage coming off with something their spouse extremely enjoys. If the spouse is not paying attention, years can pass, M, children.... and the WS feels secure enough to take off all the bandages. By then....it's too late. Can't just walk away then.
 

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My wife and I are very close with a couple where the wife was a SAHM for close to a decade and then became a real estate agent. 5 years later she is very successful (at least successful enough to need an assistant), never partnered with anyone just built her business on her own; with the loving support of her husband.

In those 5yrs she has seen and learned a lot. The biggest thing she said she learn, was you have to do it the right way building the foundation and fundamentals. Short cuts ultimately lead to struggles and ultimately failure. She will talk to other agents and try to advise them when they complain about struggling for/with business. And whether single married or partnered, almost all of them say “You don’t understand you have ‘JD’!” She will point out that her husband ‘JD’ isn’t a licensed broker and can‘t do her work for her. Almost everyone tells, “but he supports you every step of the way! He encourages you. Hell he will even puts your signs out if your running late.”

it’s a long winded way of getting to my point… maybe she just realized she needs you (or someone supportive) to be successful in her work. Lord knows loser boy wasn’t gonna cut it. Wouldn’t surprise me if he were got jealous of deals she worked on. (a lot of selfish people in real estate… or sales as a whole). You might just find yourself being her fall back to build up her career.

…And of course she is willing to leave the office/firm she is at…. Because she has a reputation… while there may be a lot of selfish people in real estate, but there are a lot of good natured honest people. And those are the ones that drive the bulk of the business; with repeat clientele and referrals rolling in. They are also not really gonna want to work with an agent who is know for abandoning her supportive husband and young children for the office loser.

not gonna tell you what to do… just pointing out another potential reality to her return, so you can protect yourself.
 

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When one has been shown that their wife is perfectly willing to leave her husband for another man, lie about it incessantly, and actually SHOW him his true value to her—-there is no freaking way she is worthy of a “date”. Nor should OP, for his own mental health, entertain such a horrible thought.

OP, her words are as hollow as her vows were to you. Believe who she showed herself to be. Believe how valuable you were to her when she THOUGHT Mr Wonderful was THE MAN
 

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Discussion Starter · #459 · (Edited)
With all this being said, what makes someone worthy of R? A while back I asked if some of you don't believe in R at all, which seems to be the case for a lot in this thread. For those that do, what are the signs?

It seems like my W is...she's saying all the right things, taking action, taking full responsibility, etc...

She was scheduled to have a talk with her broker this morning about leaving the brokerage, and I beat around the bush for a bit but basically just told her that I don't feel 100% into it. Honeslty I don't want her making career decisions based on something I'm not 100% on board with. I don't know, I just can't get there. I told her i still don't fully believe the story about how things ended with her and OM and that she is still the person that lies and cheats; and that it doesn't change overnight. Harsh, but i was just being honest. I didn't want to come off as judgemental but i basically just said I can't fix her, and it has to come from within. She had a messed up childhood, terrible father, and her mom had a revolving door of crap stepdads. Her mom had to lie, steal and cheat just to support her 5 kids at 21 and it's what my wife grew up with. Good post Chuck, it's just so frustrating. The nice guy in me thought i could "fix" that. Some people just get dealt a ****ty hand in life and it pains me that i have to end this relationshp because of her **** luck in childhood.

So...we pretty much left it at that. Such a stupid situation. It's not something i want, but i just think it's necessary for the long term health of everyone involved. I hate that she put everyone in this situation but as comfortable as it makes me feel I don't think taking her back is the right decision at this time.
 

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Well, given the facts of your situation, no way I'd consider any relationship with her again.

Your relationship wasn't horrendous, you weren't abusive to her or had done something really bad to her (not that that would be a valid reason to cheat).

Her character is that she is fickle, damaged, zero loyalty, zero care, zero compassion, or morals and had no problems CHEATING on you and LEAVING you.

This wasn't a woman trying to escape an abusive, heinous, horrible marriage.
 
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