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My husband is verbally abusive and often makes me cry. When/if I do cry, he ignores me and sometimes even becomes angry. He says he loves me but how could he really care if seeing me in pain like that doesn't matter to him? He doesn't console me, try to make it better, or even acknowledge what is going on. It makes me feel so unimportant and invisible. Its to the point where if I feel like crying, I will leave or go somewhere where he cannot see or hear me because I cannot stand the way he acts towards it. I'm not emotionally unstable and rarely cried in other relationships or in life in general before him, but he just cuts at me so deep and has a special way of bringing me down. When we argue and I cry he sometimes tells me I am pathetic and suggests that I "go somewhere else" or get over it... sometimes going as far as to say things like "god are you on your period or something?" even though it is obvious that his words or actions are what upset me. He treats me so horrible but then after the fact he denies it and says he loves me and treats me good and all of that. Its a vicious cycle, it seems like the only time he is good to me is when I threaten to leave, then he is right back to his old ways. After dealing with this for over a year now I am hurting inside all the time and feel like I can't explain it to anyone... We are so far from family and friends, and he acts totally different when we around other people so no one notices it. I'm beginning to feel like I am not worth loving and its killing me inside. Does anyone else's husband do this to them?
 

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After dealing with this for over a year now I am hurting inside all the time and feel like I can't explain it to anyone... We are so far from family and friends, and he acts totally different when we around other people so no one notices it. I'm beginning to feel like I am not worth loving and its killing me inside. Does anyone else's husband do this to them?
Yup. Me. My husband is angry...that's just the way he is. Once he gets angry at...basically anything...he feels the need to manifest that anger. I'm the closest thing around. Since he knows me, he knows what pushes my buttons. I've known this since I married him and I accept it (since I chose to be with him). It's just the way he is.

He loved me so much exactly because i could understand how his anger came from somewhere else, how words he said when he was angry were just words and had nothing to do with what he really thought about me....hence everytime he started with 'insults' i'd just be bratty and laugh it off. He'd snap out of anger in 10 minutes and love me even more. He'd love me so much because I was the ONE woman who accepted him as he was and was strong enough to cope with him.

Obviously, in time, that and other problems in life made me feel weak. I started responding how you are now, by crying, feeling abandoned, thinking that if he loved me he should care and console me. But that went in contradiction with his beliefs (that people should take care of their own selves and be strong enough to NOT need that help).

He too found me pathetic when i reacted like that. The more he said that the more I'd thought i'd loose him and he'd leave (ironic isn't it? :)) ). So...at one point i figured, ok, but if he does leave, how will i take care of my own self if i feel so weak? And why do i have to rely on someone to feel confident? So...slowly but surely i started toughing up, smiling at his anger again, being bratty again. Slowly but surely he started being affectionate and loving again, and the arguements almost disapeared. He even went as far as to say that 'You really deserve being treated like a princess for how nice and supportive you've been of me lately and what you put up with from me'.

This from the guy that would look at me crying and start yelling at me and being angry. ;) Why? Because I gained his respect back ...as a strong woman that can handle him. Back in the day when i'd let his behaviour so much i was weak and not what he fell in love with. What he was angry and dissapointed with was that i let myself be so affected by what he did and said. Get it? He kept doing it in an attempt to toughen me up. I was yelling for a hug and he was thinking that if he gives it to me he'd encourage me to feel week and helpless.

Marriage is balance. The balance in yours went to hell. Figure out how you were when you were happy with him and go back to that attitude. In the end, we all need to be strong and take care of our own selves. It doesn't justify his behaviour but it's a choice you have to make and it will make YOU happy. And you, at the moment, are being way too affected by what he does or sais. I bet somewhere deep down you know that. This is if you think you can deal with his hard to handle nature and still want to be married. Otherwise, if you want a more docile and nice man, just bail out. Good luck.

one last point: when he acts differently, that is, politely, considerate, etc, when in company he's demonstrating he knows how to act politely and considerate, he just refuses to act that way with you
And that's because you don't have his respect...because you're being weak. Yes, it sounds sad to you maybe that you have to go through this alone, but once you understand that it's just feelings and words...why do you let feelings and words hurt you so much?
 

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Hi,
I think you have to decide that isn't how you want to live out your life, you could ask him if the 2 of you could go to counseling so you can work out why he needs to treat you so badly and what that behaviour does to you, maybe a little understanding through a 3rd person can show him what he is doing....make it clear that things have to change in order for it to work
good luck
 

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It seems the 'threat' to move out gets a reaction from him. Maybe you should try that for a week or so.

I think we all hurt the ones we love the most. Don't know why...but I see it all of the time.

From a husband's point of view, I know it is very frustrating when my wife's reaction is to just break down and cry. I have stress too, but it seems when my wife is upset my role is to sit there and take her venting, but I shouldn't do that to her. During our marriage I've been very careful not to hurt her this way.
 

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I think we all hurt the ones we love the most. Don't know why...but I see it all of the time.
Cause they are the closest to us, we know all their vulnerable points, so when we 'go insane' due to stress in life we say words that hit in all the right places and that we regret later. ;)
 

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My husband is verbally abusive and often makes me cry ... rarely cried in other relationships or in life in general before him, but he just cuts at me so deep and has a special way of bringing me down ... he treats me so horrible but then after the fact he denies it and says he loves me and treats me good and all of that ... Does anyone else's husband do this to them?
It is significant that you have not been in this kind of relationship before.

I have found two reasons why people brutalize others:

Intentionally, to accomplish something specific
Uncontrollably, because they are a mess

The yo-yo (Jekyll and Hyde) partner is a pretty common way to control other people. Is he trying to break you down, so that you will be like a piece of property? If you find that his behaviour has made you compliant, docile, and loving in a misguided attempt to prevent him from switching into "bad" mode, this may be what is happening.

The other option is that he simply cannot help himself, that he has a dysfunction disorder or mental illness. If this is the case, you must leave him, for your good and for his. He cannot begin to address his problem until he recognizes it, and he will not recognize it as long as he has you to cover for his dysfunction.

Honestly, the fact that he is capable of controlling himself with others tells me he is likely a cold and calculating SOB who wants to turn you into an obedient slave. There is no cure for this kind of person.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you all so much for your advice.

I know that I need to be stronger and wish that it didn't affect me so much. I was just reading a forum about a woman who left her husband for not treating her right and though, wow, I wish I could just walk away and not look back! I'm not saying I would just yet, but knowing that I could would be really empowering...

He is going to deploy for a year in January. I am hoping for two things:

1. Being alone for a year will help me get used to life without him so that if he doesn't change, it will be easier for me to be strong and walk away.

2. Him being gone will help him see how much he appreciates me and that will aid in him changing his behavior.

I know I could be tough and not let him bother me, laugh it off, but I also know I could just be with someone who treated me better and not have to worry about shrugging off abusive behavior... and that sounds like a lot nicer of an option.

I would never treat him the way he is treating me and that is the most painful part, its hard to understand someone and their actions when they do things that you would never do.
 

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I'm sorry you are feeling so hurt and conflicted. I imagine you are right, the experience of being apart from your husband for this upcoming year might bring clarity for you. You might consider individual counseling. I'd imagine if your husband is in the military there ae resources you can tap into.

My tends to be not all that sympathetic when I'm feeling upset about something. In his case, he's not trying to be mean towards me, he simply does not understand how to respond. He did not receive good modeling growing up to know how to reach out to me. This is an area we are currently putting some work into to help our marriage. Its going to take some effort on my husbands part to acknowledge my feelings. His willingness to make an effort towards acknowledging my feelings (as well as his own) is key for both our marriages.
 

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I know that I need to be stronger and wish that it didn't affect me so much. I was just reading a forum about a woman who left her husband for not treating her right and though, wow, I wish I could just walk away and not look back! I'm not saying I would just yet, but knowing that I could would be really empowering...
Well, I've never really shared most people's views on this. They usually have a couple of options. One is sitting there being vulnerable and in pain, complaining that they are being hurt. The second is ignoring and saying 'if you don't fix yourself i'll leave'. Third is 'I'm leaving and giving up on this marriage'.

I personally also see a fourth (though most people don't), which is be strong and WORK on the marriage...you...not your spouse..see how this is different from the first few? Why does this never happen? Because people say...if my spouse is being mean, he doesn't deserve me being nice...

However, you are right in saying you should have the strength to leave. Not to actually leave. But because that means you'd be strong enough on your two feet to be objective to the situation and not get so hurt by what he sais.

1. Being alone for a year will help me get used to life without him so that if he doesn't change, it will be easier for me to be strong and walk away.
True, but, why not start now? :)
2. Him being gone will help him see how much he appreciates me and that will aid in him changing his behavior.
He will appreciate you, for the first couple of months when he comes back. After that it's all on you, whether you've changed to earn his respect or not will influence how he behaves too.
I know I could be tough and not let him bother me, laugh it off, but I also know I could just be with someone who treated me better and not have to worry about shrugging off abusive behavior... and that sounds like a lot nicer of an option.
Look, how to say this. If he's nice to you when other people are around..that means he was raised to be respectful for his spouse. Why he's not nice when you're alone is because he doesn't really respect you. If you can get him to respect you...he'll behave nice when he's alone with you too. This would be someone who treated you better...in the same marriage.

I would never treat him the way he is treating me and that is the most painful part, its hard to understand someone and their actions when they do things that you would never do.
We're all different. He's probably feeling very weird about you breaking down and crying as well. It probably exasperates him. Why? Because he doesn't do that...and would probably never do that. See what i mean?

Just make a decission in your own mind...'from this day on i'm not taking this crap from you anymore'...and be indiferent to it for a while. Don't yell, cry..whatever, don't let it affect you. See how he reacts to that. Throw him a smile once in a while in an arguement. This will make you slowly become detached to his bullying. This sets you in a spot where you will be confident enough to stand up to him or just walk away. Sure...you may end up leaving him etc...but that's a decission a bit further in the future. Think about what you can do NOW about it. Who knows, it may just work. If it doesn't you always have the other options. Just like, when you loose weight, you don't just jump to not eating at all, you slowly build up a plan and stick to it little by little, for it to work. ;) Good luck.
 

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Yup. Me. My husband is angry...that's just the way he is. Once he gets angry at...basically anything...he feels the need to manifest that anger. I'm the closest thing around. Since he knows me, he knows what pushes my buttons. I've known this since I married him and I accept it (since I chose to be with him). It's just the way he is.

He loved me so much exactly because i could understand how his anger came from somewhere else, how words he said when he was angry were just words and had nothing to do with what he really thought about me....hence everytime he started with 'insults' i'd just be bratty and laugh it off. He'd snap out of anger in 10 minutes and love me even more. He'd love me so much because I was the ONE woman who accepted him as he was and was strong enough to cope with him.

Obviously, in time, that and other problems in life made me feel weak. I started responding how you are now, by crying, feeling abandoned, thinking that if he loved me he should care and console me. But that went in contradiction with his beliefs (that people should take care of their own selves and be strong enough to NOT need that help).

He too found me pathetic when i reacted like that. The more he said that the more I'd thought i'd loose him and he'd leave (ironic isn't it? :)) ). So...at one point i figured, ok, but if he does leave, how will i take care of my own self if i feel so weak? And why do i have to rely on someone to feel confident? So...slowly but surely i started toughing up, smiling at his anger again, being bratty again. Slowly but surely he started being affectionate and loving again, and the arguements almost disapeared. He even went as far as to say that 'You really deserve being treated like a princess for how nice and supportive you've been of me lately and what you put up with from me'.

This from the guy that would look at me crying and start yelling at me and being angry. ;) Why? Because I gained his respect back ...as a strong woman that can handle him. Back in the day when i'd let his behaviour so much i was weak and not what he fell in love with. What he was angry and dissapointed with was that i let myself be so affected by what he did and said. Get it? He kept doing it in an attempt to toughen me up. I was yelling for a hug and he was thinking that if he gives it to me he'd encourage me to feel week and helpless.

Marriage is balance. The balance in yours went to hell. Figure out how you were when you were happy with him and go back to that attitude. In the end, we all need to be strong and take care of our own selves. It doesn't justify his behaviour but it's a choice you have to make and it will make YOU happy. And you, at the moment, are being way too affected by what he does or sais. I bet somewhere deep down you know that. This is if you think you can deal with his hard to handle nature and still want to be married. Otherwise, if you want a more docile and nice man, just bail out. Good luck.



And that's because you don't have his respect...because you're being weak. Yes, it sounds sad to you maybe that you have to go through this alone, but once you understand that it's just feelings and words...why do you let feelings and words hurt you so much?

Nikko,
I'm curious. It seems your efforts to behave or at least appear indifferent to your husbands bad bahaviour takes a lot of energy. In the event you became seriously ill and really needed immediate support from him, then what? Do you continue to act like you don't need him or don't necessarily need him to prove something? Kind of a mind game to compete with his coldness or whatever. I believe you are taking a cognitive (thinking) approach to how you are dealing with your husband lack of emotional connection to you. I like this approach to a certain degree, but sometimes it seems so sterile and not always realistic in its purist form--- at least to me, IMHO.

Terra
 

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Nikko,
I'm curious. It seems your efforts to behave or at least appear indifferent to your husbands bad bahaviour takes a lot of energy. In the event you became seriously ill and really needed immediate support from him, then what? Do you continue to act like you don't need him or don't necessarily need him to prove something? Kind of a mind game to compete with his coldness or whatever. I believe you are taking a cognitive (thinking) approach to how you are dealing with your husband lack of emotional connection to you. I like this approach to a certain degree, but sometimes it seems so sterile and not always realistic in its purist form--- at least to me, IMHO.

Terra
You don't understand how people like that work. When it comes to feelings, men like him have been taught from an early age (specially when growing in homes with parents who left the appearance of tough and in control) that they should keep them inside and solve their own problems! When you're going through problems (money, family breaking apart, etc), you need to keep your cool and solve them.

Breaking down emotionally won't solve anything. Imagine a guy in the middle of the war stoping to cry a bit because he can't take any more of that pressure. Even men who weren't brought up to be so tough have a problem with their wives starting to cry and feel miserable because they just plain don't understand it, and generally it's annoying and rather childish behaviour. If your husband were to suddenly break down into tears every two three days, you'd find it weird, and at a point exasperating, regardless of how much you love him. In time you'd start to think he's childish and be angry at him. Now, because we're women we have this silly impression that we can just remain childish and start crying out of anything, stomp our feet and demand someone takes care of us, like mommy and daddy used to.

You talk about illness...whenever that happened to me, my husband was there, made me soup, ran to the pharmacy in the middle of the night, gave me a massage, did everything he could to make me feel better. This is the same person who gets angry and ignores me if I cry (why? he won't encourage what he thinks is childish behaviour).

Most men usually marry a woman who seems strong, fun to be around, independent and mature. Whenever that woman breaks down into tears, she indirectly tells her man she's not that strong woman he married. The man naturally gets angry and confused. He might even continue his bullying because on some subconscious level he thinks thats what she needs to go back to her strong self. (If you study the behaviour of men many are like that with their children...in an attempt to 'prepare them for life' and toughen them up.)

I'm not pretending that I don't need my husband. In all due reality I don't really need him. I can take care of my OWN self and i find it normal for every adult to be able to do so. Don't understand by this that I don't get or accept any help from him. I do want him around for the rest of my life, and do love him.

I'm just at a possition where, although i love him being around and being nice to me, I know that if I were to be alone tomorrow (for one reason or another) I could take care of myself without any problem. If I ever get amazingly pissed about something and find myself teary (only time i can't control this is when i'm PMS-ing) I go make myself a tea, take a warm bath, listen to some music and then go on with life. Why? Because I can take care of myself and don't need to husband to say 'there there it's all going to be ok' when i cry. I'm not twelve anymore.

Because I am in this state of mind, I get respect from him. Because i can handle him and accept him for what he is, i am loved by him. As soon as i gained that respect and love back, he, on his own, without me saying anything, started acting respectful, loving and so on. Sure, he still won't be there if i break down and cry but why would i need to do that? :p
 

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I happen to be more of a 'thinking' type personality. It would be a rare occurence for me to show an outward display of emotions that included tears. I'm not sure we're on the same page with this. I believe I understand what you are attempting to explain in regards to basically having command of ones own feelings etc. Indeed, I get annoyed when for example, I have to deal w/female and sometimes male employees that operate in this immature fashion. And I'm not necessarily simply discussing pitching in and assisting when, say you have a cold/flu, stressed out and that sort of thing. Still that's part of it. I'm talking about being connected on a deeper level as a couple, being interdependent, having concern for the "us" rather then two independent individual going around disconnected from one another perhaps emotionally, physically, spiritually.
Personally I had a rough experience where because I have/we've been pretty independent I ended up having trouble getting help I needed because others around me were used to it going the other way! In otherwords, me helping others etc. I've had some very isolating an scary moments, that yes, I've gotten through, still it would have helped me to have had an easier time at getting help at that point. In a sense I'm discussing the extreme opposite of the initial writer of this thread. I'm also wondering if you have yet to see this angle to what you are expressing.
 

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Geez, if a man thought it was his job to "toughen me up," he'd be in for a huge surprise. And it wouldn't be one he'd been hoping for, I'm sure.

By the way, SIBLINGS are for toughening us up and teaching us we are not the center of the universe. They do a darn good job of it, usually!

OP, I noticed you said he is verbally abusive to the point where he "makes me cry." First, remember that NO ONE can make you do anything (unless they point a gun to your head). It seems to me that the whole "he won't sympathize with me when I'm crying" issue is secondary--why should he sympathize when he knows he has been trying to get you to cry (by being verbally abusive)? Truthfully, a lot of people get verbally abused and don't cry--they refuse to accept it and either leave or work with their spouse to get the counseling needed for the verbal abuse to end. I hope you use the year alone to get some help and figure out what you want to do--he could come back to a changed woman, and he *might* respond in a positive way. Or, he might not change, but you will know what to do then. Best of luck, and stay in touch.
 

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Mrs Farris

My husband sounds a lot like yours. I see a physical difference in him when he is being kind and when he is being horrible. He lives by double standards and (although I hate to admit it to the other posters) I cry out of frustration. I am more prone to crying than you. I dont cry all of the time by any means though. I understand where you are coming from when he doesnt care that he has ranted until you cry. I dont do that to my husband and if I did I sure in the hell would want to resolve it rather than yell about that too. I just want to be treated the same way I treat him.

I think I cry sometimes bc there is no solution that will make us happy. He isnt about to be kinder or softer to me and I am not going to harden myself for him. My emotional softness is part of what makes me special and I will not give up a large part of me for him. Is that how you feel too? Also there is no middle ground anymore. I have compromised and revised compromises until we are as close to his side as we can get. I cannot and will not go further on some of these issues. So anymore I am not what he fell in love with most of the time. I am too guarded to be that free, gentle woman. At this moment I am not sure if he cares to give me the security with him so that I could feel like I can be. So I made him leave. If he had chosen to give me what I am demanding then we could have continued living together. He refuses so I tell him that what he chooses is fine for him, but that I am not going to settle for less than I deserve and if what I need is not something that he is willing to give it doesnt make sense for us to be married to one another.

At this point in my life if you are not helping me enhance myself then you are hindering my advancement. Therefore he must be removed. I love him. I am in love with him. I feel a passionate love for him, but if he is going to continue to make me feel like I am less spectacular than I should feel that I am then I guess I will have to just get over him. It is time for me to love, honor, and respect myself and letting him run over me constantly is not how that is going to happen. I am in my late 20's and my life has been standing still. What I want is not falling into my lap I need to take some initiative and go get it. He isnt helping that so he is gone.

It may not be right for you but you have to get yourself in this same mind set. This might seem silly, but if your life were a movie would you be cheering on this relationship or begging the heroine to treat herself better?
 

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Geez, if a man thought it was his job to "toughen me up," he'd be in for a huge surprise. And it wouldn't be one he'd been hoping for, I'm sure.
I didn't mean it like they think it's their job. It's just the only way they know how to react when it comes to crying and desperation i guess.
OP, I noticed you said he is verbally abusive to the point where he "makes me cry." First, remember that NO ONE can make you do anything (unless they point a gun to your head). It seems to me that the whole "he won't sympathize with me when I'm crying" issue is secondary--why should he sympathize when he knows he has been trying to get you to cry (by being verbally abusive)?
This was my point. You said it much better than me. Thank you ;)

I'm talking about being connected on a deeper level as a couple, being interdependent, having concern for the "us" rather then two independent individual going around disconnected from one another perhaps emotionally, physically, spiritually.
That interdependence and connection are great, in my opinion, when both partners deep down feel like they have respect for their SO and that their SO is strong enough to care for themselves. Sure, one or two times of weekness is normal. But when your spouse is constantly feeling vulnerable, that person suddenly becomes someone you are basically forced to take care of. Know what i mean? When that happens the whole interdependence thing jumps from being pleasant as in 'we're taking care of eachother' to one sided 'i constantly have to take care of you'.

This usually translates to a lot of anger. The result is simple, every time that immature behaviour screaming 'take care of me' arises, the response is anger...as in 'no, i don't want this responsability of making you feel better yet again'. Except for people that love to take care of other people, ofc. Again this is just my opinion and i'm having a hard time explaining exactly what i mean. I also know that for thinking types it's even more annoying to deal with someone who is highly emotional. Thinking types also tend to chose a low emotional person as a lifemate...and they are exasperated if that person suddenly becomes mushy and sensitive. Does this make sense? Yes, just like anything else in life, balance is the answer...as in not to be completely alone, by yourself and never ask for or accept help, but don't fall into the needy clingy side.

Yes, i know what it's like to be the helper. That's exactly what i was trying to state higher. Maybe her husband is so used and exhasperated by her being emotional that he said no to still trying to help her. Maybe he even has issues of his own and didn't get support because she was busy dealing with her own emotions. There's no way to tell for sure, there are always two sides of the story and almost always both spouses to blame for the situation they are in. I was simply suggesting all that because usually when one spouse changes behaviour the other does too. Usually going back to what one used to be as attitude will make the other person remember why they fell in love and re-asses their behaviour.
 

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Nekko,
I appreciate your expanding your ideas. I'm enjoying the topic. Its making me reflect on a situation I was in not long ago where I was 'needy' although doing the best I could to take care of myself while my husband had to do what he had to do (work) plus take on additional responsibilities I could no longer perform AND help me. Esencially we had to take on new roles and responsibilities to each other. Quite often folks whom become significantly ill/chronically ill are/ become allienated from others and one another through no fault of thier own. My husband DID have to jump to constantly taking care of me! Even under the best of circumstances (two mature strong individuals) a situation like this can be difficult and spell trouble. This IS the "for better or worse, thru sickness and health" part not all are truely prepared for even if you 'think' or 'feel' you are. Just my thoughts as the human condition IS frail. Maybe I'm hoping to get across just how important it is to have developed a strong mature relationship hopefully before something like this comes along in order to be better prepared for illness,aging, etc. It is like you are saying about balance and in the case of the possibility you might have to constantly take care of your SO, one has to factor in how to continue to care for oneself along the way. Your right, neither emotional outbursts and the SO's use of abusive behaviour surrounding emotional outbursts are paths to getting help when its really truely needed. Also even if a couple doesn't struggle with these particular behavioral difficulties... I'd say any and all chinks in the 'us' armour will indeed become more pronounced under tragic circumstances. I'm assuming there are no perfect marriages out there, so we're all likely vulnerable to added stress under difficult circumstances. (illness, husband going off to war, etc.) And maybe here I'm trying to expand the notion of what we perceive as 'weakness' for I feel I've had to display a great deal of courage and strength to be where I've landed today.
 

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I appreciate your expanding your ideas. I'm enjoying the topic. Its making me reflect on a situation I was in not long ago where I was 'needy' although doing the best I could to take care of myself while my husband had to do what he had to do (work) plus take on additional responsibilities I could no longer perform AND help me. Esencially we had to take on new roles and responsibilities to each other.
Yes, these situations arise and what you describe is normal...You have to be there for your spouse. But let me show you a different perspective. There's your husband who saw you needed help and were going through a rough period and obviously supported you all he could. Then there's the OP's husband, who might be thinking 'i'm taking care of her and our family, have a ton of work and responsibility, i come home and am pretty annoyed because of my hard day and i meet my wife who bursts into tears, seems unsatisfied and complains about me not being nice enough'. I'm not saying this is necesarily the case, but in such a scenario could you understand how it would be normal for a man to react in that way and how the woman shouldn't really expect for him to take care of making her feel better aside from other things he has to do?

Quite often folks whom become significantly ill/chronically ill are/ become allienated from others and one another through no fault of thier own. My husband DID have to jump to constantly taking care of me! Even under the best of circumstances (two mature strong individuals) a situation like this can be difficult and spell trouble. This IS the "for better or worse, thru sickness and health" part not all are truely prepared for even if you 'think' or 'feel' you are. Just my thoughts as the human condition IS frail.
Again, I agree with you. If we're talking about something our spouses find serious. Such as illness, too much work, financial problems, babies dieing, inability to concieve, big family troubles etc. This doesn't apply so well for the 'you're a bully and treating me bad and i go cry and yell at you for being mean' scenario. In that situation, if you wish, because of the reaction of his wife, the husband may think that she's actually against him. Just a thought.
Maybe I'm hoping to get across just how important it is to have developed a strong mature relationship hopefully before something like this comes along in order to be better prepared for illness,aging, etc. It is like you are saying about balance and in the case of the possibility you might have to constantly take care of your SO, one has to factor in how to continue to care for oneself along the way. Your right, neither emotional outbursts and the SO's use of abusive behaviour surrounding emotional outbursts are paths to getting help when its really truely needed.
Yes, I agree with you again. You need to know the 'us' is strong too. You need to know your spouse will be there and comitted to you even when you're old, your jokes aren't funny anymore and you take two hours to get to the front door. There was this joke about this old pair sitting on the porch and the wife asks the husband 'what's your name?' husband answers'i don't remember', then the wife sais 'doesn't matter, i love you anyway'.:)
But in order to keep that together you need to make sure to not push your spouse away. You don't appreciate people that don't appreciate you.
 

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Hi Nekko,
You are making many good points. You are discussing this couple reacting and not being pro-active and getting to the bottom of why they are habitually behaving in a manner that is undermining to their relationship and their ability to connect in a meaningful way-- especially sad prior to this guy leaving for a full year as he is going off to war. Its the elephant in the room. These immature behaviours are getting in the way.

There are communication breakdowns, the bad habit of independent behaviours getting in the way of forming or maintaining the 'us' in a marriage relationship, failure to stay connected to one another, and perhaps not having a basic level of respect towards one another, and maybe even coming into a marriage under prepared and not fully developed as an individual and maybe having misguided expectations formed in the first place. For example, the wife perhaps has low self-esteem and has the habit left over from childhood of using emotional outbursts to attempt to get something out of her husband as he's generally not too responsive. Unfortunately emotional outbursts further allienate in this case and cause anger and resentment rather then empathy and understanding. Its a kind of dance they are each doing and probably are pretty good at it. Is this where you are going Kekko?

At any rate, I guess I was looking at your comments and making what I perceived (based on my own experience such as it is) and seeing a possible progression or lack of. I see the marriage relationship as a relationship that evolves and progresses in some fashion over time. So if a couple or if one or each of the individuals works on their weaknesses within their marriage (act in a pro-active rather than reactive manner) likely the marriage will evolve in a healthier fashion. Thus when 'stuff happens' that is part of life (in my example --an illness) the more pro-active couple will
be able to weather the storm more readily. But if the couple are plagued with immaturity, low self esteem issues, poor communication skills--whatever, these things will make the situation more difficult--- most likely.

In all fairness, it can be very hard to see our own self defeating behaviors and what's holding us back and causing us to make the same mistakes with our behaviours over and over. Concerning the crying: crying in some contexts could be a natural emotional release to a loss or it could be rooted in a past trauma the person is unaware of ---kind of like post traumatic stress syndrome. Until the person confronts the real cause to their trauma its doubtful anyone including a spouse can help. Perhaps this is why the spouse has given up in some ways and simply reacts with anger, distancing and other passive agressive behaviours. The spouse intuitively understands they are helpless to unlock the mystery. Just a thought. What do you think of this notion?
 

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Hey Terra,

Love to talk with you ;).
There are communication breakdowns, the bad habit of independent behaviours getting in the way of forming or maintaining the 'us' in a marriage relationship, failure to stay connected to one another, and perhaps not having a basic level of respect towards one another, and maybe even coming into a marriage under prepared and not fully developed as an individual and maybe having misguided expectations formed in the first place.
Exactly. For an 'us' to happen, there have to be two rather strong people that go into that 'us'. Sure, weak moments can and will happen, and it is normal for the other partner to jump in and help. Those two people like eachother based on some qualities (this is the way life is). Those qualities can't completely disapear for ever else the marriage fails.

Respect, if you wish, is in my opinion the most important thing in a relationship between two people, followed by trust. If respect is missing the behaviour of the people involved will change greatly. Lack of respect means you think your spouse doesn't deserve good behaviour, support or love from you. Obviously this is bad. For short you need to see your spouse as an equal. Yes, with different personality and different needs, but as an equal in rights and as deserving to receive love and support and your opinion etc.

For example, the wife perhaps has low self-esteem and has the habit left over from childhood of using emotional outbursts to attempt to get something out of her husband as he's generally not too responsive. Unfortunately emotional outbursts further allienate in this case and cause anger and resentment rather then empathy and understanding. Its a kind of dance they are each doing and probably are pretty good at it. Is this where you are going Kekko?
Exactly.

-Say the husband, as a child, always got anger and dis-aproval from his parents when he cried after candy...because his parents told him to 'toughen up'. He matured, realized crying to get something never works, and accepted it. As his parents, he will treat this kind of behaviour in the same way because he was taught it was bad and immature.

-The wife, on the other hand, would get what she wants because her daddy couldn't stand to see her cry and wanted to please her. Hence she was encouraged indirectly to behave that way in order to get something (most of the times emotional support). Since she was never discouraged from it, she keeps doing that. So, her and her husband have conflicting opinions on the matter.

When he sees her act that way he gets annoyed, offended and feels like he has to put an end to this kind of behaviour (like his parents did to him), eventually even teasing her once in a while as a test, in order to 'toughen her up' thinking that she'll eventually reach the point where she understands. She on the other hand jumps to the conclusion that he doesn't love her or care (because daddy, who did love her, always tried to please her, and tolerated her behaviour). If he hadn't loved her, he wouldn't have married her. He wouldn't bother to tease her. People aren't mean to other people when they don't care about those people (this is a fact of life). They just plain don't care.

At any rate, I guess I was looking at your comments and making what I perceived (based on my own experience such as it is) and seeing a possible progression or lack of. I see the marriage relationship as a relationship that evolves and progresses in some fashion over time. So if a couple or if one or each of the individuals works on their weaknesses within their marriage (act in a pro-active rather than reactive manner) likely the marriage will evolve in a healthier fashion. Thus when 'stuff happens' that is part of life (in my example --an illness) the more pro-active couple will
be able to weather the storm more readily. But if the couple are plagued with immaturity, low self esteem issues, poor communication skills--whatever, these things will make the situation more difficult--- most likely.
Yup. From the point of view of the husband....him knowing that whenever his wife encounters difficulties she'll burst in tears and do nothing, how hopeful do you think he is that if he goes to war and something bad happens, when he comes back his wife will be strong and mature enough to take care of him? How would you, or any of us for that matter feel, if we knew that should trouble arrise, our spouse is not strong or mature enough to handle the situation. Doesn't matter if the spouse really can given the situation. It's all about how we perceive our spouse.

People should first of all work on theirselves before working on a marriage. If you know you have low self esteem, don't wait for your spouse to pull you out. It's not his/her duty to fix that problem, that's generally yours and only you can fix anyway (for it to last).

Concerning the crying: crying in some contexts could be a natural emotional release to a loss or it could be rooted in a past trauma the person is unaware of ---kind of like post traumatic stress syndrome.
Crying is a normal behaviour and it's actually beneficial for releasing stress and frustration. It's more common for women because they weren't bugged all childhood like men were with 'crying is for sissies and it makes you look weak'. Men do exactly the same thing with manifesting anger. It's the same emotions, just a different way of expressing it. When they couldn't cry, they found an alternate mode of manifesting frustration. A crying woman and a very angry man are most of the times the exact same thing. But constant anger and constant crying are both frustrating at hell and at some point you wonder what the hell you are doing so wrong to cause your spouse so much unhappiness. Obviously this makes you unhappy (either to the point of tears or anger) as well.
Until the person confronts the real cause to their trauma its doubtful anyone including a spouse can help. Perhaps this is why the spouse has given up in some ways and simply reacts with anger, distancing and other passive agressive behaviours. The spouse intuitively understands they are helpless to unlock the mystery. Just a thought. What do you think of this notion?
A spouse can't help with your personal internal conflicts. I know, i've been there. My husband jumped from being supportive, to being funny, to being angry, to being basically anything he could think of. It did not help. I had to pull my own self out because the problem was in my head! And yes, i agree with your notion. Specially if niceness didn't work, you'll be stuck with an exasperated spouse that knows he/she can't help, wants their happy strong spouse back and feels powerless.
:smthumbup:
 
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