I meant to add: I have marriage books like 'His Needs, Her Needs', but my H won't read them because he says they would make him feel pressured (as would MC).
My H is not interested in me
I feel very undesired and taken for granted by my H, and I would appreciate any comments or advice.
My H is an admirable person, a great housemate and father, loyal, reliable, hardworking, mature, and extremely attractive to me. Everything about him is great except that he is not affectionate (to anyone really) although he is respectful, gentle, polite. He also isn't very interested in sex. He doesn't have any hangups, but he is very LD.
He really enjoys sex once it has started, but the thought of it isn't appealing ahead of time. In other words, he can get aroused and has no erection issues, but rarely feels any craving for it.
He was only initiating once every 3 weeks or so for many years. I stopped initiating about a decade ago since I was tired of being turned down so often. However recently he actually asked me to initiate. So I started initiating but it didn't end up being much fun because he would usually turn me down. Then he stopped initiating himself. So I suggested we take turns. I then initiated 3-4 days after our last intimacy when it was my turn (just to give him a break, I'd rather have sex every day), and then I'd wait 7-12 days for him to initiate when it was his turn.
I would try to make it interesting by initiating in the day or in different rooms, but when it was his turn, always at night in the dark in bed. Finally, he told me he didn't want to have sex in the day. He comes to bed so late that I'm usually asleep or very sleepy (no, he's not watching porn, he only has a stone-age computer and phone which won't play videos), and he never thinks to come to bed early just to be with me.
He does not like me to flirt, proposition him, or wear sexy clothes or lingerie because it 'puts pressure on him'. The only way to initiate with him is to touch him directly.
He seems to love sex when we are having it. However, he always keeps his eyes closed the whole time. He must not be one of those 'visual' guys. But for some reason, he procrastinates or avoids having sex since he has a hard time imagining that he will get aroused (even though he always does if I touch him directly, there is no ED issue).
He expects me to be the 'active' one in sex usually, and 'new things' don't really appeal to him. Sex is usually great in spite of my having to provide most of the passion. He has great control and always waits for me to finish (which I do easily). I do oral on him as foreplay every time but I don't really like oral on myself, so he doesn't have to expend much time or effort. I'd be happy even with a quickie.
He thinks I should be happy with sex once a week (given that it used to be only every 3 weeks). I'm not though, because he turns me down so often, expects me to do the work being on top about 70% of the time, and he restricts our sex life to late at night in the dark, much later than I like to stay up.
He never tells me I'm pretty or flirts with me (he will yell out a sexy proposition if he happens to drive by me when I'm out running or flirt with me at the airport when I'm leaving on a business trip, but when I get home, nothing.) He might say 'I love you' a couple times a year, and never wants to go out with me. In 15 years since we had kids, we've never even gone out to dinner or to a movie alone, only with kids or friends or extended family.
We get along pretty well, no big conflicts, no 'rough patches' or drama in our marriage, and we usually agree on most things. Neither one of us has a temper or says hurtful things (except that he is brutally honest about what he likes and doesn't and would never tell a white lie).
Our anniversary fell on a Saturday a couple weeks ago and I dragged him out to a restaurant. He just complained about the menu and said 'You know I don't like going out to eat'. Then he said he just doesn't like celebrating holidays like Valentine's or anniversaries because it feels like he is 'expected to act a certain way'. The sex that night felt like duty sex. It's always been like this, we never went on a honeymoon because he said he didn't want to go on a trip right away, "We'd go on other trips later" (but we never did go anywhere without the kids.)
For years, I maintained a good mood by focusing on my kids. They gave me plenty of touch and affection when they were small. Now the youngest is 10, and they aren't in my arms or lap anymore and they don't need as much of my time or attention.
This year I've started trying to 'rekindle' my marriage, wearing new nicer outfits, trying new sexual positions/rooms, initiating, more kisses good morning, good night, more hugs. Mostly it hasn't made much difference and there have been many awkward failures when he doesn't like what I've tried or suggested. He will hug me back and initiates pecks good morning and good night nowadays (which is progress compared to the last few years), but he still treats me mostly like a roommate.
I know there's no OW (he works at home on our property and barely touches his computer or phone). He is self-employed so doesn't have external work stress. He is very fit and healthy and runs every day for exercise, and has a great diet.
I'm not unattractive (still a size 4 with pretty long hair). However, I think I am boring to him.
He won't even watch TV with me, and even if he would, he has to sit alone in his recliner. We go on trips as a family and do things like hiking as a family, but nothing just the two of us. If I suggest a 'date night' or doing something alone, he is very uncomfortable and says he doesn't want to. I can't even remember doing anything alone with him in years except driving to school events or going to the hardware store.
His love language to me is 'acts of service'. He does lots of favors for me, cooks my favorite dinners, builds things for me in the garden, improves rooms just for me. He is so busy with household projects he rarely ever sits down (so I can't just sit down next to him). He does so much for the kids too. One other really nice thing he does is give me advice - I don't ask that often but whenever I have a problem, he is great at giving me wise advice. He is my rock in so many ways.
I know he 'loves' me in the same way he loves our kids and he wouldn't want a divorce. It seems like ideally he'd like to stay with me long-term sort of as non-passionate friends with occasional benefits. He is amazing in so many ways, especially as a dad, and everyone thinks I'm so lucky to be married to him. So do I in most ways, but I feel like my love and passion for him is unrequited, and that he just 'isn't that into me'.
Does anyone have any advice for me? I don't know how I could 'woman up' in any way that would make a difference. Dressing up has no effect. I'm already thin and fit. I never criticize, nag, yell, or tell him what to do - he is the leader in our family and I have the utmost respect for him (because he always does the right thing in all areas except for not showing love/affection). I have my own hobbies and when I've been really busy with them or the kids, it doesn't bother him one bit. I've gone for some years hardly touching him and it is just fine with him. I do not go out to socialize with friends or anybody very much (mostly because I work full time and want to be with my kids), and I know that's one area I need to work on. I go to various types of shows with my kids, but I will need to make more friends as they get older and leave home. I do exercise a few times a week, but I know it would be better if I did it every day, especially cardio to improve my mood.
My H said he probably wouldn't ever be willing to go to marriage counseling. He wants me to accept him as he is and not try to change him (note that I didn't do anything to try to change him for many years, so that can't be the initial problem).
His testosterone is low and I'd like him to do something about that, but he doesn't seem willing to go on therapy. I think it would help our sex life if he did, but I don't think testosterone alone would make him want to go out on 'date nights' or spend quality alone time with me.
I just feel lonely and like my life is going to be 'blah' and even more lonely after my children leave home. I often feel ugly and awkward since he obviously feels only 'meh' about me (although when I look in the mirror, I think I look pretty good). If nothing ever changes, I'll have to rely on girl friends for any affection or social life. I hate the idea of divorcing but lately I've started wondering what that would be like, whether it would be a good idea or bad. I wouldn't consider leaving until our kids all leave for college (about 6 years from now).
I was dealing a lot better emotionally in this situation when I wasn't 'trying things' to rekindle or improve our marriage. The trying and not having much success is just embarrassing and frustrating, and I'm starting to feel depressed.
My H is an admirable person, a great housemate and father, loyal, reliable, hardworking, mature, and extremely attractive to me. Everything about him is great except that he is not affectionate (to anyone really) although he is respectful, gentle, polite. He also isn't very interested in sex. He doesn't have any hangups, but he is very LD.
He really enjoys sex once it has started, but the thought of it isn't appealing ahead of time. In other words, he can get aroused and has no erection issues, but rarely feels any craving for it.
He was only initiating once every 3 weeks or so for many years. I stopped initiating about a decade ago since I was tired of being turned down so often. However recently he actually asked me to initiate. So I started initiating but it didn't end up being much fun because he would usually turn me down. Then he stopped initiating himself. So I suggested we take turns. I then initiated 3-4 days after our last intimacy when it was my turn (just to give him a break, I'd rather have sex every day), and then I'd wait 7-12 days for him to initiate when it was his turn.
I would try to make it interesting by initiating in the day or in different rooms, but when it was his turn, always at night in the dark in bed. Finally, he told me he didn't want to have sex in the day. He comes to bed so late that I'm usually asleep or very sleepy (no, he's not watching porn, he only has a stone-age computer and phone which won't play videos), and he never thinks to come to bed early just to be with me.
He does not like me to flirt, proposition him, or wear sexy clothes or lingerie because it 'puts pressure on him'. The only way to initiate with him is to touch him directly.
He seems to love sex when we are having it. However, he always keeps his eyes closed the whole time. He must not be one of those 'visual' guys. But for some reason, he procrastinates or avoids having sex since he has a hard time imagining that he will get aroused (even though he always does if I touch him directly, there is no ED issue).
He expects me to be the 'active' one in sex usually, and 'new things' don't really appeal to him. Sex is usually great in spite of my having to provide most of the passion. He has great control and always waits for me to finish (which I do easily). I do oral on him as foreplay every time but I don't really like oral on myself, so he doesn't have to expend much time or effort. I'd be happy even with a quickie.
He thinks I should be happy with sex once a week (given that it used to be only every 3 weeks). I'm not though, because he turns me down so often, expects me to do the work being on top about 70% of the time, and he restricts our sex life to late at night in the dark, much later than I like to stay up.
He never tells me I'm pretty or flirts with me (he will yell out a sexy proposition if he happens to drive by me when I'm out running or flirt with me at the airport when I'm leaving on a business trip, but when I get home, nothing.) He might say 'I love you' a couple times a year, and never wants to go out with me. In 15 years since we had kids, we've never even gone out to dinner or to a movie alone, only with kids or friends or extended family.
We get along pretty well, no big conflicts, no 'rough patches' or drama in our marriage, and we usually agree on most things. Neither one of us has a temper or says hurtful things (except that he is brutally honest about what he likes and doesn't and would never tell a white lie).
Our anniversary fell on a Saturday a couple weeks ago and I dragged him out to a restaurant. He just complained about the menu and said 'You know I don't like going out to eat'. Then he said he just doesn't like celebrating holidays like Valentine's or anniversaries because it feels like he is 'expected to act a certain way'. The sex that night felt like duty sex. It's always been like this, we never went on a honeymoon because he said he didn't want to go on a trip right away, "We'd go on other trips later" (but we never did go anywhere without the kids.)
For years, I maintained a good mood by focusing on my kids. They gave me plenty of touch and affection when they were small. Now the youngest is 10, and they aren't in my arms or lap anymore and they don't need as much of my time or attention.
This year I've started trying to 'rekindle' my marriage, wearing new nicer outfits, trying new sexual positions/rooms, initiating, more kisses good morning, good night, more hugs. Mostly it hasn't made much difference and there have been many awkward failures when he doesn't like what I've tried or suggested. He will hug me back and initiates pecks good morning and good night nowadays (which is progress compared to the last few years), but he still treats me mostly like a roommate.
I know there's no OW (he works at home on our property and barely touches his computer or phone). He is self-employed so doesn't have external work stress. He is very fit and healthy and runs every day for exercise, and has a great diet.
I'm not unattractive (still a size 4 with pretty long hair). However, I think I am boring to him.
He won't even watch TV with me, and even if he would, he has to sit alone in his recliner. We go on trips as a family and do things like hiking as a family, but nothing just the two of us. If I suggest a 'date night' or doing something alone, he is very uncomfortable and says he doesn't want to. I can't even remember doing anything alone with him in years except driving to school events or going to the hardware store.
His love language to me is 'acts of service'. He does lots of favors for me, cooks my favorite dinners, builds things for me in the garden, improves rooms just for me. He is so busy with household projects he rarely ever sits down (so I can't just sit down next to him). He does so much for the kids too. One other really nice thing he does is give me advice - I don't ask that often but whenever I have a problem, he is great at giving me wise advice. He is my rock in so many ways.
I know he 'loves' me in the same way he loves our kids and he wouldn't want a divorce. It seems like ideally he'd like to stay with me long-term sort of as non-passionate friends with occasional benefits. He is amazing in so many ways, especially as a dad, and everyone thinks I'm so lucky to be married to him. So do I in most ways, but I feel like my love and passion for him is unrequited, and that he just 'isn't that into me'.
Does anyone have any advice for me? I don't know how I could 'woman up' in any way that would make a difference. Dressing up has no effect. I'm already thin and fit. I never criticize, nag, yell, or tell him what to do - he is the leader in our family and I have the utmost respect for him (because he always does the right thing in all areas except for not showing love/affection). I have my own hobbies and when I've been really busy with them or the kids, it doesn't bother him one bit. I've gone for some years hardly touching him and it is just fine with him. I do not go out to socialize with friends or anybody very much (mostly because I work full time and want to be with my kids), and I know that's one area I need to work on. I go to various types of shows with my kids, but I will need to make more friends as they get older and leave home. I do exercise a few times a week, but I know it would be better if I did it every day, especially cardio to improve my mood.
My H said he probably wouldn't ever be willing to go to marriage counseling. He wants me to accept him as he is and not try to change him (note that I didn't do anything to try to change him for many years, so that can't be the initial problem).
His testosterone is low and I'd like him to do something about that, but he doesn't seem willing to go on therapy. I think it would help our sex life if he did, but I don't think testosterone alone would make him want to go out on 'date nights' or spend quality alone time with me.
I just feel lonely and like my life is going to be 'blah' and even more lonely after my children leave home. I often feel ugly and awkward since he obviously feels only 'meh' about me (although when I look in the mirror, I think I look pretty good). If nothing ever changes, I'll have to rely on girl friends for any affection or social life. I hate the idea of divorcing but lately I've started wondering what that would be like, whether it would be a good idea or bad. I wouldn't consider leaving until our kids all leave for college (about 6 years from now).
I was dealing a lot better emotionally in this situation when I wasn't 'trying things' to rekindle or improve our marriage. The trying and not having much success is just embarrassing and frustrating, and I'm starting to feel depressed.
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As I was reading this, I was thinking 'he's just not that into you. And you said exactly that.
I think that's really the case here, you married a good friend, not a husband.
I'm not bad mouthing him either, he does sound like a great companion, but a husband needs to be more than that when it comes to sex. He isn't and it sounds like he won't be, largely because he doesn't want to be. You can lead a horse to water... If he doesn't want to address the issue, you are likely beating your head on a wall.
I think you should go to marriage counselling, even if you go alone. Do something for yourself, you said so yourself you need to do that. Do the marriage counselling, make some friends, get some hobbies, go back to school, live your dreams. Why waste your time pining over a man who wants nothing to do with you in that way? Be supportive of the positive things in your marriage, and from the sound of it you have quite a few, but when it comes to sex, stop spending your time trying to make it work sexually and devote that time to yourself. I mean, this has been going on for how long? Over a decade?
Out of curiousity, was he like this before marriage as well? If so, why did you marry him? Did you expect him to change?
I think that's really the case here, you married a good friend, not a husband.
I'm not bad mouthing him either, he does sound like a great companion, but a husband needs to be more than that when it comes to sex. He isn't and it sounds like he won't be, largely because he doesn't want to be. You can lead a horse to water... If he doesn't want to address the issue, you are likely beating your head on a wall.
I think you should go to marriage counselling, even if you go alone. Do something for yourself, you said so yourself you need to do that. Do the marriage counselling, make some friends, get some hobbies, go back to school, live your dreams. Why waste your time pining over a man who wants nothing to do with you in that way? Be supportive of the positive things in your marriage, and from the sound of it you have quite a few, but when it comes to sex, stop spending your time trying to make it work sexually and devote that time to yourself. I mean, this has been going on for how long? Over a decade?
Out of curiousity, was he like this before marriage as well? If so, why did you marry him? Did you expect him to change?
He wasn't like this when we were first dating but by the time we actually got married a few years later, it was slipping in this direction. However, at that time, it was still tolerable, we were having sex once a week (and he is great in bed, a very caring and unselfish lover), and he was still going to dinner and movies with me. I guess I didn't imagine sex slipping to once per month and him refusing to ever go on date nights with me . I had stars in my eyes because he is so good-looking, smart, wise, talented, and trustworthy, and I could tell that he would be a great father and loyal husband.Do the marriage counselling, make some friends, get some hobbies, go back to school, live your dreams. Why waste your time pining over a man who wants nothing to do with you in that way? Be supportive of the positive things in your marriage, and from the sound of it you have quite a few, but when it comes to sex, stop spending your time trying to make it work sexually and devote that time to yourself. I mean, this has been going on for how long? Over a decade?
Out of curiousity, was he like this before marriage as well? If so, why did you marry him? Did you expect him to change?
So yes, the lack of sex and feeling neglected has been going on for more than a decade. I had been naive thinking the reason we never went out is because we were both to lazy to get a babysitter and were basically homebodies, but I thought that things would improve when our kids were older or out of the house. On our anniversary when he didn't want to go out, I mentioned that and he said 'if I had wanted to go out, I would have gotten a babysitter'. I said 'we had gotten out of the habit of going out together' and he said, 'we never were in the habit'. That's not really true since we did go out before kids 15 years ago, but he seems to forget since it was so long ago. We used to go out to a movie every week or two, and he says he doesn't remember ever doing that. He wasn't trying to be mean, he just is 100% honest and authentic. He's not selfish in most other ways, but he won't do/say anything romantic if he's not feeling it (and evidently he hasn't felt it since we were dating).
I'm worried about you too, kingsfan. Are you still engaged and is your situation improving? Be careful or you will end up like me!
Everything you said is good advice. I need to make more friends for sure. I'd love to go back to school (more than anything) but I work full-time and have kids, and I don't have much energy left (I'm not a high energy person except sexually).
I have to figure out what my dreams are now. My dreams in the past were to have several children and spend a lot of time with them (that might sound prosaic, but for me, being a mom was my passion). Now that my children are older, sex is my #1 favorite thing to do but I only get to do it a few minutes per week if I'm lucky. Exercise (various types of workouts and sports) might be #2 but I've been so low energy, especially after my workday, that most days I don't do it. I spend many hours per week playing a musical instrument which is also my passion, but it doesn't fulfill me in the same way that a close marriage would. Most of my hobbies (like learning languages) are 'stay at home' hobbies, which doesn't work as part of a '180' plan (but I don't think a 180 would really work anyway).
Some of my other passions would require me to change jobs, but I'm in a golden handcuffs situation - a job that isn't my passion but pays better than most other types of careers.
Well said Kari. Clearly you have put a lot of time and thought into your situation.
A 180 plan doesn't have to involve leaving the house. I enacted a sort of 180 plan in the marriage, and I did it while sitting right beside her basically. I used to do a lot of writing as a kid/early teen and I have always liked doing it. When I started my 180 (and I didn't do it on purpose, I just unintentionally started doing things for me) I really picked up on two of my hobbies, writing and hockey. Eventually I combined the two and started writing for a scouting agency, which led to interviews with some up and coming draft eligible players, which led to a weekly feature, which was eventually picked up short-term for ESPN's website.
All done while sitting in the living room on the computer, three feet away from where my ex-wife sat watching her bazillion TV shows a week.
Funny you mention the golden handcuffs, because I've been there too. Eventually my writing skills led to me getting a job at the local newspaper and I worked my way up to editor. Editor at a small townpaper pays better than most other jobs I could get, yet not enough to really get you ahead of the game either. Took me seven years but I finally found a new career (hopefully, still a bit in limbo here). The money is actually slightly worse, but it's much less time (no evening/weekends like at the newspaper) and has better benefits and pension plans. I'm also hoping for a raise in the coming months.
So there is light that way as well, if you can wait it out.
I hope you are able to shift gears and get into a hobby that can fulfill you. Have you considered seeing if you could find a band to play in?
Also, thanks very much for your concern for my situation. Overall, yes, things have improved for me. Coming to this site has really given me more 'balls' so to speak to say what I'm thinking. I think it's because it's given me validation that what I want in a sex life isn't weird, wrong or odd, and as such has removed most self-doubt I had. I still have issues, and I'm still working on improving our sex life, but overall things are better and I'm working on them often. At this point, I actually think it's me that needs the work.
A 180 plan doesn't have to involve leaving the house. I enacted a sort of 180 plan in the marriage, and I did it while sitting right beside her basically. I used to do a lot of writing as a kid/early teen and I have always liked doing it. When I started my 180 (and I didn't do it on purpose, I just unintentionally started doing things for me) I really picked up on two of my hobbies, writing and hockey. Eventually I combined the two and started writing for a scouting agency, which led to interviews with some up and coming draft eligible players, which led to a weekly feature, which was eventually picked up short-term for ESPN's website.
All done while sitting in the living room on the computer, three feet away from where my ex-wife sat watching her bazillion TV shows a week.
Funny you mention the golden handcuffs, because I've been there too. Eventually my writing skills led to me getting a job at the local newspaper and I worked my way up to editor. Editor at a small townpaper pays better than most other jobs I could get, yet not enough to really get you ahead of the game either. Took me seven years but I finally found a new career (hopefully, still a bit in limbo here). The money is actually slightly worse, but it's much less time (no evening/weekends like at the newspaper) and has better benefits and pension plans. I'm also hoping for a raise in the coming months.
So there is light that way as well, if you can wait it out.
I hope you are able to shift gears and get into a hobby that can fulfill you. Have you considered seeing if you could find a band to play in?
Also, thanks very much for your concern for my situation. Overall, yes, things have improved for me. Coming to this site has really given me more 'balls' so to speak to say what I'm thinking. I think it's because it's given me validation that what I want in a sex life isn't weird, wrong or odd, and as such has removed most self-doubt I had. I still have issues, and I'm still working on improving our sex life, but overall things are better and I'm working on them often. At this point, I actually think it's me that needs the work.
I think Gottman's approach might help. Look up his books on bidding for connections.
Your story reminds me of the "hope springs" movie.
Your story reminds me of the "hope springs" movie.
I'd bet money that is the problem right there. If I read your posts correctly, your husband used to be more into sex and it has gradually waned over time. So his libido decreased as his testosterone decreased. I don't think you need a whole lot of other books to overanalyze the problem. All you have to do is to get him to understand how important sex is to you and to get himself fixed with the low T.His testosterone is low and I'd like him to do something about that, but he doesn't seem willing to go on therapy. I think it would help our sex life if he did, but I don't think testosterone alone would make him want to go out on 'date nights' or spend quality alone time with me.
.I have to figure out what my dreams are now. My dreams in the past were to have several children and spend a lot of time with them (that might sound prosaic, but for me, being a mom was my passion). Now that my children are older, sex is my #1 favorite thing to do but I only get to do it a few minutes per week if I'm lucky. Exercise (various types of workouts and sports) might be #2 but I've been so low energy, especially after my workday, that most days I don't do it. I spend many hours per week playing a musical instrument which is also my passion, but it doesn't fulfill me in the same way that a close marriage would. Most of my hobbies (like learning languages) are 'stay at home' hobbies, which doesn't work as part of a '180' plan (but I don't think a 180 would really work anyway)
It sounds like you have done lots of "dreaming" and are very in touch with the life you want to create for yourself.
First Priority--Matriarch and nurturing mother.
Second Priority--Passionate and adventurous lover
Third Priority--Healthy mind and body
Fourth Priority--Mind expanding cultural and arts pursuits
You are way ahead of most people Kari! It sounds like a rich and fulfilling life you envision for yourself, although I wonder if there might still be room for a touch of travel to put that love of language to good use.
Once you see you priorities the next step is to evaluate how you get there. Often, the most important facet of that decision process is COMMITMENT.
I think that type of 180 can work for couples who normally pay a lot of attention to each other. But it is everyday life (for years) for my H and me to spend almost all of our time in separate rooms doing our separate hobbies or chores.A 180 plan doesn't have to involve leaving the house. I enacted a sort of 180 plan in the marriage, and I did it while sitting right beside her basically. [...]
All done while sitting in the living room on the computer, three feet away from where my ex-wife sat watching her bazillion TV shows a week.
So for my particular case, I'd have to go out of the house, preferably with friends, to make him take notice.
It's ironic that when we were dating, I reserved Friday nights to go out with my own group of friends and he hated that. He complained so much, saying he had nothing to do and it was his weekend too, that finally I gave it up. But it wasn't too long after that (and from then on), that I was ignored on Friday nights, just reading or watching TV alone or doing my own hobbies.
I need to build up a new group of Friday night friends, just girlfriends of course.
Kingsfan, I'm glad you and your fiance (or wife now?) are doing better. I'm a little worried that you say you need to work on yourself. I hope your partner doesn't want you to change too much. If you are working on something like losing weight, building muscle, quitting smoking/drinking, acting more manly and decisive (more alpha), or keeping your temper in check, then yes, it absolutely is good to keep working on it. But if your partner doesn't seem to like several aspects of your personality, your career, hobbies, or goals/values, that would be a problem. You didn't mention, is she willing to make your sex life a priority?
I will read the Gottman books.I think Gottman's approach might help. Look up his books on bidding for connections.
Your story reminds me of the "hope springs" movie.
I hadn't heard about the 'Hope Springs' movie until a couple nights ago, I saw a commercial for it (not sure how recent that movie is since we have some old recorded shows on our DVR). My husband was nearby (not really watching but he might have seen it) and I turned to look to see if he had any reaction but I couldn't tell. I was thinking to myself, I don't think I could ever succeed in the rekindling things the way the Meryl Streep character does.
The synopsys of this movie (I just googled) sounds exactly like us: "she attempts to persuade her skeptical husband, a steadfast man of routine, to get on a plane for a week of marriage therapy. Just convincing the stubborn Arnold to go on the retreat is hard enough - the real challenge for both of them comes as they shed their bedroom hang-ups and try to re-ignite the spark that caused them to fall for each other in the first place" except that my H would never agree go to a marriage retreat.
Now I'm definitely going to see this movie!!! It will be somewhat depressing, but so are all movies that show romance. I can't complain very much though, since I have about everything in life I could want except romance. Some people would say it is a 'first world problem'.
I know, that is my goal and I'm actually pinning my hopes on getting him to try it and that it will work. I might just be setting myself for a big disappointment though.I'd bet money that is the problem right there. If I read your posts correctly, your husband used to be more into sex and it has gradually waned over time. So his libido decreased as his testosterone decreased. I don't think you need a whole lot of other books to overanalyze the problem. All you have to do is to get him to understand how important sex is to you and to get himself fixed with the low T.
But his primary doc that he trusts and has seen for 15 years told him his 300 ng/dl total Testosterone level wasn't "low" because it was in the 5th percentile for his age, not the 2.5 percentile threshold that is considered low. Grrr!!! The endocrine society considers 350 ng/dl to be treatably low, and low T clinics consider 400 ng/dl to be the threshold.
My H says he 'very rarely' has morning erections. He says he hasn't masturbated even once in 2012 because we've been having sex once per week (due to my initiating again for the first time in years). Does that sound like just part of normal aging (for a mid-fifties guy)? I'm not sure if he is unusual because I have no one to compare him to. Men on this forum might be more interested in sex than average.
Any ideas on how I can convince him to do the therapy?
He doesn't seem to remember what it is like to have a strong libido, and he doesn't realize how much more fun he could be having. He thinks as long as he can have sex once a week with no problems, he's just fine. It's not fine with me because I want more hotness, more passion, less vanilla, and to be able to flirt with him. The low T limits what we can do and what he's interested in. He almost never lets me give him a BJ to completion because he cares about pleasing me and knows that after he climaxes, he'd lose interest in sex for another 4-7 days at least.
I guess I should mention that for my 180, I didn't really care if my ex-wife noticed or not. If you read what you wrote above, you say that you want to do a 180 where he will notice it (implying that y are doing it just as much to get his attention as you are doing it for yourself) while in the last paragraph to me, you say I shouldn't change for anyone.I think that type of 180 can work for couples who normally pay a lot of attention to each other. But it is everyday life (for years) for my H and me to spend almost all of our time in separate rooms doing our separate hobbies or chores.
So for my particular case, I'd have to go out of the house, preferably with friends, to make him take notice.
It's ironic that when we were dating, I reserved Friday nights to go out with my own group of friends and he hated that. He complained so much, saying he had nothing to do and it was his weekend too, that finally I gave it up. But it wasn't too long after that (and from then on), that I was ignored on Friday nights, just reading or watching TV alone or doing my own hobbies.
I need to build up a new group of Friday night friends, just girlfriends of course.
Kingsfan, I'm glad you and your fiance (or wife now?) are doing better. I'm a little worried that you say you need to work on yourself. I hope your partner doesn't want you to change too much. If you are working on something like losing weight, building muscle, quitting smoking/drinking, acting more manly and decisive (more alpha), or keeping your temper in check, then yes, it absolutely is good to keep working on it. But if your partner doesn't seem to like several aspects of your personality, your career, hobbies, or goals/values, that would be a problem. You didn't mention, is she willing to make your sex life a priority?
This is true, you shouldn't change for anyone, and neither should you for your husband. Why does he have to notice? You are changing you, for you. If he notices, great and that's a wonderful bonus, but don't do it with him in mind. Do it for you. If you want him to enjoy a certain type of you, then don't change because clearly he has the type of you right now that works perfect for him.
I encourage you to reconnect with your friends. I let a lot of my freinds go for my ex-wife too, under the same circumstances. I regret that now and it has been very hard for me to make friends these days as well. I get along great with most people, just never build up enough of a connection to have 'hang out' friends.
Once again, thanks for your concern for my wellbeing as well. She is still my fiancee (wedding isn't until July, 2014, so will be fiancee for a while), and by working on me, I do mean what you said. She actually doesn't want to change anything about me, which is nice, though i wouldn't put up with someone that wanted to change me. Never understood the desire to change someone, what attracted you to that person to begin with?
I'm working on a sort of alpha male personality I guess. Essentially, I'd like to get over my bad habits of being indecisive and timid, which I can be at times, and more 'take action.' Hard to explain, but that's it in a nutshell I guess. That and I'd like to get myself moving forward more quickly financially. I'm basically just treading water right now and likely will be for the next few years unless I can change something.
I have to start all over making 'hanging out' friends because we moved to a new city. Yes, I do need to do it for myself and I shouldn't do it for him. It's just that he takes me so much for granted, saying he 'never' wants to go out me unless it were a sporting event or show that he was absolutely dying to see. (By the way, he's not trying to hurt me or being mean, he just always tells people exactly how he feels. In the 20 years I've known him he's never lied, not even a white lie to protect someone's feelings. )I guess I should mention that for my 180, I didn't really care if my ex-wife noticed or not. If you read what you wrote above, you say that you want to do a 180 where he will notice it (implying that y are doing it just as much to get his attention as you are doing it for yourself) while in the last paragraph to me, you say I shouldn't change for anyone.
This is true, you shouldn't change for anyone, and neither should you for your husband. Why does he have to notice? You are changing you, for you. If he notices, great and that's a wonderful bonus, but don't do it with him in mind. Do it for you. If you want him to enjoy a certain type of you, then don't change because clearly he has the type of you right now that works perfect for him.
I encourage you to reconnect with your friends. I let a lot of my freinds go for my ex-wife too, under the same circumstances. I regret that now and it has been very hard for me to make friends these days as well. I get along great with most people, just never build up enough of a connection to have 'hang out' friends.
[...]
I'm working on a sort of alpha male personality I guess. Essentially, I'd like to get over my bad habits of being indecisive and timid, which I can be at times, and more 'take action.' Hard to explain, but that's it in a nutshell I guess. That and I'd like to get myself moving forward more quickly financially. I'm basically just treading water right now and likely will be for the next few years unless I can change something.
I don't have a temper and don't think being passive-aggressive is healthy, but frankly that tempts me to make a bunch of plans and leave him home alone. He does like me to stay around as furniture, even if in a separate room, and I know it would make him feel a bit insecure or jealous but only if I did it several times a month. I agree, the #1 goal should be so I have friends to have fun with, talk with, and relate to, and the goal of having him see I have some other options (than just being stuck at home being ignored by him) should be a less important, secondary goal. What do you do if somebody seems to take you for granted? If I were single or didn't have kids, I'd say 'let's take a break for a while' and then leave if he didn't act like my needs were important.
I do think you should continue to add alpha and improve your financial position (maybe get a master's degree). Adding alpha will be a slow process but I think is doable while still being totally 'you' and not changing your values. It is more of a confidence thing, uncovering what you really want and not being afraid to go after it.
My H does most of the housework and cooking, and isn't that interested in sex, but I'd nevertheless say he is very strongly in the 'alpha' category. Well, OK I wish he were more alpha during sex. But aside from that, he is very alpha because he isn't a 'pleaser', he is always true to his own feelings and doesn't do things to placate me. He would never fail a sh!t test, he wouldn't even be tempted for one second. He wouldn't tolerate it if I were snippy or rude to him. He doesn't let the kids get away with bad behavior. He is self-confident and a decision maker. He is the clear leader in our family, and I like that. He knows who he is and doesn't pretend. He would never do something just because someone else (e.g. his parents) tried to steer him in that direction. He is immune to anyone trying to lay a guilt trip on him (or he might get annoyed and do the opposite of what they want).
I wouldn't be attracted to someone who pretended to be what I wanted, expected me to make most decisions, or caved to me if I tried to get my way by acting emotional (I haven't tried that game in 20 years though, although I don't hide my emotions either).
Adding more alpha can be simple, just make dinner reservations without asking for her input, say 'no' if she wants something unreasonable or expensive, don't say 'I love you' more than she does or follow her around. Be more active and passionate in sex, don't ask permission for every position change, etc.. Don't change your behavior because she cries or lays guilt on you. Arrange some weekend things with friends without asking her. That is easier said then done if you don't have many friends in town, but maybe you could join some sort of sports club like a racquetball or tennis club or softball team.
I don't want to change anything about my husband except for in the sex/romance area. I don't want him to do any of it because he feels guilty and obligated. I just wish I could think of ways to get him to want more sex/romance in his life for his own sake (as well as mine). He might like it if he got used to it or gave it more of a chance.
My H doesn't try to change me but I think he thinks I'm boring. Not sure how to change that.
I guess I forgot to say that when I want to be more 'alpha' I meant in the rest of my life. I guess I could always be a bit more alpha in my relationship as well, but I have taken a lot of strides in that regard the past 3-4 months (since I came to this board, yeah TAM!) I feel and they have been handled very well by my fiancee actually. While the bedroom is an issue still to a degree, the rest is getting better, and I'm being more assertive, but still being the same person i usually am overall. Really, not many problems in the relationship that way.
In life is where I need to be more alpha, especially at work or with my eldest son, who is really pushing things right now. I'm trying to take more control that way, however it's been hard for me trying to take control of things that in some regards I feel like I don't have much direct influence on. I guess I'm just tired of being pulled in 14 different directions and I'm trying to turn things around and be the one doing the pulling (that really didn't sound right on a sex in marriage board, lol).
You're husband sounds like he is just comfortable where he is at. For you, that's unfortunate, but for him, it likely works. The only way he will change is if it doesn't work anymore. So maybe by you doing your own changes, it will cause a change in him. Just don't do it for him though, or for him to change. Do your changes for you, and if he comes along, great. If not, well you still at least have a more positive way to spend your time rather than acting as a stand in for the furniture.
In life is where I need to be more alpha, especially at work or with my eldest son, who is really pushing things right now. I'm trying to take more control that way, however it's been hard for me trying to take control of things that in some regards I feel like I don't have much direct influence on. I guess I'm just tired of being pulled in 14 different directions and I'm trying to turn things around and be the one doing the pulling (that really didn't sound right on a sex in marriage board, lol).
You're husband sounds like he is just comfortable where he is at. For you, that's unfortunate, but for him, it likely works. The only way he will change is if it doesn't work anymore. So maybe by you doing your own changes, it will cause a change in him. Just don't do it for him though, or for him to change. Do your changes for you, and if he comes along, great. If not, well you still at least have a more positive way to spend your time rather than acting as a stand in for the furniture.
Exactly true. I just wish there were a 'match.com' site or a local "speed friending" group to find some more female friends that can go out in the evenings. I don't think I would want to go out with a bunch of married couples and be the odd one out. I need to start making myself go out to movies or other types of shows by myself at least.You're husband sounds like he is just comfortable where he is at. For you, that's unfortunate, but for him, it likely works. The only way he will change is if it doesn't work anymore. So maybe by you doing your own changes, it will cause a change in him. Just don't do it for him though, or for him to change. Do your changes for you, and if he comes along, great. If not, well you still at least have a more positive way to spend your time rather than acting as a stand in for the furniture.
Have you tried Facebook? Most communities now have Facebook pages for various organizations and groups in the community. It might not be set up by the community itself but by the individual organizations, so there may be several pages, not just one. Try searching for your community on Facebook and see what comes up.
I'll try Facebook. I do have a Facebook account but don't really use it. I tried Meetup.com but all the meetups I found of interest were at least a 30 minutes drive from me, and that just feels like too much driving to go to an event that might be a dud.Have you tried Facebook? Most communities now have Facebook pages for various organizations and groups in the community. It might not be set up by the community itself but by the individual organizations, so there may be several pages, not just one. Try searching for your community on Facebook and see what comes up.
It is difficult to convince someone that there is a problem when they really don't feel like there is a problem. He seems to be having no problems at all with where his life is at. As you indicated earlier HNHN and MC would make him feel like he's under pressure. And why should he read or go as he's perfectly happy with the situation. You want more, he doesn't. I suggest to you that he'll like you going out to clubs and other activities as he would feel even less pressure as you'd be out of the house for awhile.
However do go out and have some fun on your own. It will at the very least temporarily alleviate your focus on the challenges at home and give you a different perspective overall.
However do go out and have some fun on your own. It will at the very least temporarily alleviate your focus on the challenges at home and give you a different perspective overall.
You're right that he is perfectly happy with the way things are. Or the way they have been, until I recently started asking him for more, he sure doesn't like that change one bit. He feels it is unfair for me to want to change things when I've been (seemingly) fine with him ignoring me for years. But it wasn't that way before marriage, I was like a frog being boiled slowly, the sex, affection, and going out as a couple all dwindled over time. I never signed up to be ignored, and I had rationalized the drop off was due to being busy raising our kids and being too lazy to get a babysitter.It is difficult to convince someone that there is a problem when they really don't feel like there is a problem. He seems to be having no problems at all with where his life is at. As you indicated earlier HNHN and MC would make him feel like he's under pressure. And why should he read or go as he's perfectly happy with the situation. You want more, he doesn't. I suggest to you that he'll like you going out to clubs and other activities as he would feel even less pressure as you'd be out of the house for awhile.
He tells me 'This shouldn't be news to you' that he 'never' wants to go out. It really is news to me though, because I was naive and thinking it would improve once the kids were older.
My H would like it if I went out to girls night out once a month and some things in the day, but Friday night girls night out every week would irritate him even though I'd be ignored if I stay home. He wouldn't like anything involving single guys even though he trusts me and knows I'd never cheat. I wouldn't stress him out by going to clubs or dancing, but I would just like to go to dinner, movies, shows, people's houses, etc.. with women or married couples.
However.... I've always wanted to take a social dance class (like Arthur Murray class) and my H would never be interested. That's not the same as going to a bar with single guys.
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