[firebelly]

I've read a lot of threads with men referring to turning back into "Alphas" and the like - that they were too nice in their relationship and they got stepped on. Well, I'm not *****y to my man and not cruel, but lately I have found him annoying and unattractive. I'm not a big fan of the advice some of the guys on the threads give about how the guy should turn into a jerk. I'm more interested in how I get him to just assert himself more.

Anyone else experience this? How did you communicate with your guy to get him to stop being so nice?

 

[Holland]

I agree with you on some of the advice here about men needing to be more like jerks. Read some recently that suggested holding back on affection, that would make me get out of a relationship not get more involved.

Anyway to you question, my guy is perfect (well to me) alpha in his career, very successful. He is kind, caring and helpful around the house.
But he is very alpha in our sex life.

So I don't have your problem and he is not sickly sweet nice but he is a good balance of alpha, romantic and nice.

To show him I like him this way I simply tell him that he is one sexy man and that his combo of alpha/beta is perfect for me. Perhaps when your partner does something that is more assertive tell him then and there how it makes you feel. So accentuate the good but don't put him down about the bad.

I think some men don't understand that women want to look up to their man and want them to be more assertive. I know my ex was too nice but his dad was too far the other way with his wife so his example was not good.

 

[Prodigal]

I'm not a big fan of the advice some of the guys on the threads give about how the guy should turn into a jerk. I'm more interested in how I get him to just assert himself more.

How did you communicate with your guy to get him to stop being so nice?

Let me start out by saying, you have every right to the opinion that some of the men on TAM are advising other guys to turn into jerks. I think they will disagree; some more vehemently than others. However, this is an open forum and everybody has a right to their opinion ...

You cannot get your man to assert himself more. Bottom line of what you control in this life: your thoughts, your feelings, and what you say. Other than that, other people don't fall under the auspices of our contol, unless they're our children. And even children cannot be, ultimately, controlled.

You don't want your bf to be a "jerk" but you want him to stop being "so nice." What exactly is he doing that makes him nice to the point that it annoys you? Y'know, some people just aren't all that assertive. Is that is a fundamental part of his personality, you cannot change it. If he wants to change it, then he can work on the issue.

 

[Mavash.]

You are not your husbands keeper nor should you ever try to change him. Besides I'm sad to report it won't work anyway. Trust me I've tried. LOL

The only person you should have any control over is you and your response to him.

That said you should learn to focus your energy on his good qualities instead of seeing nothing but things you don't like. Surely the man you married has some redeeming qualities? Focus on those enough and you'll build him up. Then he will seem more attractive and less annoying to you.

 

[Dad&Hubby]

I've read a lot of threads with men referring to turning back into "Alphas" and the like - that they were too nice in their relationship and they got stepped on. Well, I'm not *****y to my man and not cruel, but lately I have found him annoying and unattractive. I'm not a big fan of the advice some of the guys on the threads give about how the guy should turn into a jerk. I'm more interested in how I get him to just assert himself more.

Anyone else experience this? How did you communicate with your guy to get him to stop being so nice?

Holland, you're a very lucky woman. It's rare to find the PROPER combination of alpha and beta in a man. And this is probably one of the bigger problems in life.

Recognize the number 1 rule of men. Men are simple and singular in thought.

We are simpler than women. We tend to be one persona and that's it. We find a way that works for us and we're happy with and that's the direction we go, nice guy, bad boy, alpha, beta, whatever. Women tend to want complex multi-faceted personalities.

I want a man who's strong aggressive and assertive...but only SOME times. Other times, he needs to be soft sensitive and romantic. And I'll get frustrated if I don't get my way (with said strong, aggressive and assertive man)

I want a nice guy, but when a nice guy wants a date, I spurn him for his bad boy friend, and then get really confused when the bad boy turns out to be...well...a bad boy.

The guy who is very opinionated turns you away from a long term relationship because you don't get your way so you marry a guy who actually asks your opinion and does what you want...then 5 years later you're complaining how he doesn't just take control, or just make plans without consulting you and isn't spontaneous.

Remember, think singularly in your thought process and you'll see why men are so confused by women. Most men anyway. Some men have realized this dynamic and strive to be more "complex" but most don't, they just scratch their head and are confused why women say they want one thing, then a year later complain because they're getting that thing.


If you want your man to change, promote the environment for change. And do it from a singular thought process. For instance, you want your man to start taking more control, teach him through YOU refusing to take control. Like if you're going to have a date night. Ask him to "take you out on a date." Then don't give ANY hints or make ANY decisions. The first date night will be very awkward. The second will get a bit better, but by the fourth or fifth date night, he'll start actually planning them. See the trick?

Hope you find the humor I intended in this and also find it helpful.

 

[Holland]

D&H I am really starting to understand how lucky I am with him and have to say that reading this forum and the posts from many of the men here I can now see things a bit clearer.

Yes everything you have said here makes sense, simple, men and women do think differently. Has taken me many years, a LTR marriage/divorce to finally get to the point where I understand the complexities of my female mind.
Now I am lucky to have found a man that is perfect for me, can flex when I need it, can help when I need it and is strong where it counts.
And in the end no matter which of these things he is doing, whether it be super alpha man or kind caring romantic man, I look up to him and respect him for being himself.

It is hard for women to understand men and men to understand women. What I know now is that the best way to work it all out is to firstly know yourself and then listen to what the opposite sex have to say about their own kind.

 

[fetishwife]

As far as being more Alpha in bed....I WISH women would just ASK Men....and it would not have to be so detailed and complex as to spoil the mood...

If my wife would just ask me ONCE

(1) "Take me now and ravish me"....pow that would be more signal that I needed to be as alpha in bed as possible...she is more likely to say something like "I like it when you move me around..." a little more subtle but same idea.

(2) "be gentle and love me" ok, then Id get the idea she wants something more sweet and gentle (to start haha).

Woman CAN hint and ask a little to GUIDE their guys in the right direction.

My wife tells me all the time "Im trying to give you a hint" or something along those lines...to help me out.

She will tell me when Im "turning me off" which is fine....Id rather know.

But it is DAMN CONFUSING for a guy when you dont know WTF they want.

Ladies you can HINT without spoiling it.

 

[firebelly]

You are not your husbands keeper nor should you ever try to change him. Besides I'm sad to report it won't work anyway. Trust me I've tried. LOL

The only person you should have any control over is you and your response to him.

That said you should learn to focus your energy on his good qualities instead of seeing nothing but things you don't like. Surely the man you married has some redeeming qualities? Focus on those enough and you'll build him up. Then he will seem more attractive and less annoying to you.

I think you're right that I can't control anyone but me. I think what I'm asking is - would it do any good to tell him the truth - that his lack of assertiveness makes me less attracted to him? Probably not, huh? I'm thinking of a scenario in which my SO might say "Your fat ass really makes me less attracted to you. Just being honest."

I recently read a book called "The Passion Trap" in which the therapist author explains the dynamic of what he calls the "one-up" and the "one-down" in a relationship. The one-down wants to be closer and the one-up pulls away. In most relationships I've been the one-down so this one-up thing is new to me. But the author explains that when you start feeling less attracted to your partner, one reason can be that there's some power imbalance in the relationship.

The power imbalance can be situational. The guy I'm with now has been going to school and not working; got kicked out of his apartment due to a crazy neighbor and has a bum knee. On top of all that, he's just not that confident in bed. For some reason, when I started dating him, none of these things seemed to matter, but a few months in, they are weighing on me. None of these things are a reflection of him as a person - he's got a work history that suggests that he's always been a hard worker, he's a great listener, he's patient, he's generous, he's smart. He's not addicted to anything. Doesn't have anger management issues. But the nicer he is to me, the more I'm annoyed. The relationship is so new that I'm not confident that it's something I should carry on with or tough it out for a while to see if the imbalance changes as his knee heals and he starts working again. That's my dilemma really.

 

[fetishwife]

He is not alpha enough.....its obvious he does not turn you on, does not excite you, does not challenge you.

He may be just clueless about all this dynamic.

If you really like him, give him the MMSL primer book....

tell him you really like him a lot, but you need some excitement and you need him to man up.

I wish some girlfriend who bailed on me years ago would have done that for me.

If it does not work out with you at least he will know why and may be MUCH better able to make some future woman happy.

At the least you will be doing him and some future woman a huge favor in the passion department if he can learn to grow a pair.

I actually resent the fact that evolution made men and women this way...as a man Id like to just love my wife and expect her to be in love with me...but ALAS, I know, no matter what she says...the things that she HATES about me....are often ALSO the things that keep her attracted to me...

Not catering to her whims. Calling her on her crap. Being moderately controlling and demanding of her. Occasionally making negative comments...(not ALL the time). Occasionally blowing my top...complaining....being broody....making decisions without always involving her....generally "putting my foot down" when I expect something to be a certain way...going out once in a while and coming home "late" and pissing her off. Again not ALL the time..SOMETIMES...

pushing her a bit in bed beyond her comfort zone...


The problem for us guys is its a FINE LINE BETWEEN ALPHA AND *******.

And SADLY ******* still works with you women better than nice guy.

Its really unfair...personally Id rather just be a nice guy all the time...let her plan things....relax...watch TV....let her run the show around the house...Ahhhhh....that would be so nice...BUT

I know it would make her lose a lot of attraction for me.

So Im a part time moderate jerk, expect to be the ultimate boss in the marriage and say so....which often makes her mad...etc etc....but I also bring home a lot of bacon, am good with the kid, clean up, fix things..etc...and remember a good spank on the butt and yank the heck out of her hair while doing her...and whisper nasty things in her ear while we do the deed...call her a you know what...

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME....

UGH it sucks to be a man.

 

[tom67]

He is not alpha enough.....its obvious he does not turn you on, does not excite you, does not challenge you.

He may be just clueless about all this dynamic.

If you really like him, give him the MMSL primer book....

tell him you really like him a lot, but you need some excitement and you need him to man up.

I wish some girlfriend who bailed on me years ago would have done that for me.

If it does not work out with you at least he will know why and may be MUCH better able to make some future woman happy.

At the least you will be doing him and some future woman a huge favor in the passion department if he can learn to grow a pair.

I actually resent the fact that evolution made men and women this way...as a man Id like to just love my wife and expect her to be in love with me...but ALAS, I know, no matter what she says...the things that she HATES about me....are often ALSO the things that keep her attracted to me...

Not catering to her whims. Calling her on her crap. Being moderately controlling and demanding of her. Occasionally making negative comments...(not ALL the time). Occasionally blowing my top...complaining....being broody....making decisions without always involving her....generally "putting my foot down" when I expect something to be a certain way...going out once in a while and coming home "late" and pissing her off. Again not ALL the time..SOMETIMES...

pushing her a bit in bed beyond her comfort zone...


The problem for us guys is its a FINE LINE BETWEEN ALPHA AND *******.

And SADLY ******* still works with you women better than nice guy.

Its really unfair...personally Id rather just be a nice guy all the time...let her plan things....relax...watch TV....let her run the show around the house...Ahhhhh....that would be so nice...BUT

I know it would make her lose a lot of attraction for me.

So Im a part time moderate jerk, expect to be the ultimate boss in the marriage and say so....which often makes her mad...etc etc....but I also bring home a lot of bacon, am good with the kid, clean up, fix things..etc...and remember a good spank on the butt and yank the heck out of her hair while doing her...and whisper nasty things in her ear while we do the deed...call her a you know what...

IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME....

UGH it sucks to be a man.

YES trying to read my ex I may as well have been reading yiddish now about 3 days a week I call gf "what's up? You want to come by she'll say either yes or ehh no you come over."I'm 2 years out so I like simple right now

 

[firebelly]

But fetishwife...we don't like jerks. There's a difference between being a jerk and being assertive or being fully present in the relationship. I don't want a jerk AND I don't want a wimp. I want a fully actualized, lovingly assertive partner.

 

[firebelly]

If you want your man to change, promote the environment for change. And do it from a singular thought process. For instance, you want your man to start taking more control, teach him through YOU refusing to take control. Like if you're going to have a date night. Ask him to "take you out on a date." Then don't give ANY hints or make ANY decisions. The first date night will be very awkward. The second will get a bit better, but by the fourth or fifth date night, he'll start actually planning them. See the trick?

I think I"m going to try this. Next time he says "What's on the agenda for this weekend?" I'm gonna say, "I don't know. What have you got planned?"

 

[fetishwife]

Firebelly,

Of course of course....but it IS be a fine line...its really hard...some of us ARE TRYING and not quite making it....

I'm telling you I TRY.....I REALLY REALLY want to be a "fully actualized, lovingly assertive partner" to my wife....I want to look good for her, be in shape, make lots of money, support her emotionally, be her rock while also exciting her and rocking her world....NOT TO MENTION of course giving her her freedom and her own time to herself and letting her BE HERSELF and loving her the way she is....etc etc etc.

TRUST ME...this is WHAT IS WANT TO BE AS A MAN...and I agree with you 100%...

Unfortunately IN REAL LIFE....one screws up and sometimes a guy who is PART of the ideal man you want...(me haha) is also PARTLY A JERK (me haha).

Because none of us are perfect.....

Maybe you will find one...

TOO MUCH JERK...BAD NEWS!

But a little jerk might also be a little actualized and lovingly assertive....

I wish my WIFE would be a

(1) Fantastic supportive loving nurturing perfect mother type
(2) A great co-breadwinner
(3) An incredible porn star in bed while also being totally LOVING and considerate during the love making..and be up for it WHENEVER IM IN THE MOOD...
(4) Totally focused on making me, her man, the number one thing in her life and always building me up. Always trusting me...always looking up to me.
(5) A spectacular mother
(6) Totally beautiful and healthy
(7) Absolutely NON FLIRT with ANY other men EVER at all....totally NON SEXUAL EXCEPT WITH ME!

Guess what..welcome to reality...if I get some of these things some of the time Im a very very lucky man.

Same goes for you..

Unfortunately if you have a gamma man...not enough alpha and not enough beta....he needs to go through some major changes....agreed, him becoming a jerk is not what you have in mind and not the answer...

He needs to become a MAN for you....imperfect..but still clearly a MAN...so you can WANT him.

Sorry Im taken...hahaha

 

[firebelly]

I wish my WIFE would be a

(1) Fantastic supportive loving nurturing perfect mother type
(2) A great co-breadwinner
(3) An incredible porn star in bed while also being totally LOVING and considerate during the love making..and be up for it WHENEVER IM IN THE MOOD...
(4) Totally focused on making me, her man, the number one thing in her life and always building me up. Always trusting me...always looking up to me.
(5) A spectacular mother
(6) Totally beautiful and healthy
(7) Absolutely NON FLIRT with ANY other men EVER at all....totally NON SEXUAL EXCEPT WITH ME!

Ok. Ok. Good point. No one can be all things. But you are also right...he needs to be a MAN. I get that being a MAN can also mean sometimes being an accidental JERK, but I'm just saying one shouldn't ASPIRE to being a jerk or think that's what they've got to be in order to inspire their woman to want them. "I don't agree and I won't back down on this one" would get me hot enough. That's not being a jerk. That's having a spine.

 

[fetishwife]

agreed 100%....

personally Im really trying to eliminate the jerk part.

let me give you some of the man side though...again...its really confusing...

My wife has specifically been mad as heck about the EXACT same things that she tells me at other times she likes about me.

A great example one time during sex with her bouncing on me....she said to me and I quote...

"you are bad, bad, bad...why do you have to be so bad?"

and fake slapped me across the face while smiling....."

Go figure.

 

[barcafan]

For the whole dynamic to make sense, you must look at it from an anthropological viewpoint. Being too nice and available makes a lot less valuable and attractive, but I hear you! I would love to just be a nice guy for one day but meh...somebody's gotta be a d!ck I guess.

 

[barcafan]

What Women Want - Comic Brian Scott McFadden on Letterman - YouTube!

 

[Gunthar]

Firebelly,

Of course of course....but it IS be a fine line...its really hard...some of us ARE TRYING and not quite making it....

I'm telling you I TRY.....I REALLY REALLY want to be a "fully actualized, lovingly assertive partner" to my wife....I want to look good for her, be in shape, make lots of money, support her emotionally, be her rock while also exciting her and rocking her world....NOT TO MENTION of course giving her her freedom and her own time to herself and letting her BE HERSELF and loving her the way she is....etc etc etc.

TRUST ME...this is WHAT IS WANT TO BE AS A MAN...and I agree with you 100%...

Unfortunately IN REAL LIFE....one screws up and sometimes a guy who is PART of the ideal man you want...(me haha) is also PARTLY A JERK (me haha).

Because none of us are perfect.....

Maybe you will find one...

TOO MUCH JERK...BAD NEWS!

But a little jerk might also be a little actualized and lovingly assertive....

I wish my WIFE would be a

(1) Fantastic supportive loving nurturing perfect mother type
(2) A great co-breadwinner
(3) An incredible porn star in bed while also being totally LOVING and considerate during the love making..and be up for it WHENEVER IM IN THE MOOD...
(4) Totally focused on making me, her man, the number one thing in her life and always building me up. Always trusting me...always looking up to me.
(5) A spectacular mother
(6) Totally beautiful and healthy
(7) Absolutely NON FLIRT with ANY other men EVER at all....totally NON SEXUAL EXCEPT WITH ME!

Guess what..welcome to reality...if I get some of these things some of the time Im a very very lucky man.

Same goes for you..

Unfortunately if you have a gamma man...not enough alpha and not enough beta....he needs to go through some major changes....agreed, him becoming a jerk is not what you have in mind and not the answer...

He needs to become a MAN for you....imperfect..but still clearly a MAN...so you can WANT him.

Sorry Im taken...hahaha

:iagree:

Yep...takes 2 to make a relationship and both parties wish to find that one in a million person who is everything they want with that perfect balance that is present at all times.......

Why does it seem in many instances when a relationship starts to become troubled one party then focuses on why that person is not perfect and that this "flaw" then is turned into fuel to either have a EA/PA or end the relationship.....interesting.

I guess a lot of people cannot stay being happy with having some good qualities in their spouse some of the time.......

 

[MaritimeGuy]

I think what all of us on both sides hate is when a partner leaves the decision making to us (acts passive) then turns around and criticizes our decision. I think we all want our partner to be clear about that they want so we can try to provide it and don't waste time trying to accomplish something that won't be appreciated anyhow.

 

[Jellybeans]

Tell him, "Baby it really turns me on when you stand up to XYZ. It makes you seem like ALL MAN in my eyes and makes me want to jump all over you." Say it wit a twinkle in your eye.

Positive feedback for what you like.

He sounds like a good guy that a lot of women would be happy to date.

You said you are usually the one doing the chasing so maybe that is why this relationship feels weird to you. Or could it be you just like jerks? If so, that is a whole 'nother ballgame.