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Keep the momentos?

  • BURN IT!

    Votes: 10 37.0%
  • I'll let them keep it as long as they don't look at it and over it.

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • I'll let them keep it, it's part of their life, I respect that.

    Votes: 6 22.2%
  • Meh, I keep my momentos too!

    Votes: 8 29.6%
  • Other...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Curious question, because up until the day of the breakup of my relationship, she was in tears non-stop, wanted hugs, pinned herself against me. She kept delaying what she wanted so I just helped her carry her stuff out the door and drove her home. She took her time leaving the car and was in tears. I offered her solutions but she would have none of it so ok.

After she left though, and I swung around, realising what I had actually lost, she had already changed. The tears were gone, face was different, hands, voice and tone cold as ice. Even a smile and smirk. That's when I realised she was gone. But looking back it sure makes me wonder though...

Has anyone else encountered this switch? When someone can do that, does this mean everything was fake, the entire relationship? I'm questioning everything now, how real was everything really? In fact, I may dig up everything just to chuck it if that's the case and don't want to remember how I was blindsided.
I think what happened is very common within relationships. What you saw was her hoping and hanging on...and then when you didn't respond to her, when you showed you were willing to end things with her while you saw she was broken hearted and wanting you to love her, the doors in her heart closed off to you. It doesn't mean anything was fake at all. I'm sure she is just as hurt by the loss of your relationship as you are!

What stands out to me is that the way she acted when she gave up (detached, uncaring, cold as ice) is the way you acted towards her BEFORE she gave up, even during your relationship when you guys were fighting...does that mean all your feelings of love that you showed her, or your feelings for her now, are fake? No, of course not.

It sounds like at the end, she became YOU. She accepted that you were never going to change (after you told her several times you wouldn't), and realized she had to harden her heart in order to let you go. You would harden your heart during your relationship, even though you loved her...she had to harden hers at the end, even though she loves you.

Her feelings and love for you were and are as real as yours were and are.
 

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The only momentos that I could see causing serious issues would be erotic letters or an old VHS of a guy's wife pulling a train on five guys during her college days. Some things you just don't keep. ;)
 

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I think what happened is very common within relationships. What you saw was her hoping and hanging on...and then when you didn't respond to her, when you showed you were willing to end things with her while you saw she was broken hearted and wanting you to love her, the doors in her heart closed off to you. It doesn't mean anything was fake at all. I'm sure she is just as hurt by the loss of your relationship as you are!

What stands out to me is that the way she acted when she gave up (detached, uncaring, cold as ice) is the way you acted towards her BEFORE she gave up, even during your relationship when you guys were fighting...does that mean all your feelings of love that you showed her, or your feelings for her now, are fake? No, of course not.

It sounds like at the end, she became YOU. She accepted that you were never going to change (after you told her several times you wouldn't), and realized she had to harden her heart in order to let you go. You would harden your heart during your relationship, even though you loved her...she had to harden hers at the end, even though she loves you.

Her feelings and love for you were and are as real as yours were and are.
🏆 💯
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I think what happened is very common within relationships. What you saw was her hoping and hanging on...and then when you didn't respond to her, when you showed you were willing to end things with her while you saw she was broken hearted and wanting you to love her, the doors in her heart closed off to you. It doesn't mean anything was fake at all. I'm sure she is just as hurt by the loss of your relationship as you are!

What stands out to me is that the way she acted when she gave up (detached, uncaring, cold as ice) is the way you acted towards her BEFORE she gave up, even during your relationship when you guys were fighting...does that mean all your feelings of love that you showed her, or your feelings for her now, are fake? No, of course not.

It sounds like at the end, she became YOU. She accepted that you were never going to change (after you told her several times you wouldn't), and realized she had to harden her heart in order to let you go. You would harden your heart during your relationship, even though you loved her...she had to harden hers at the end, even though she loves you.

Her feelings and love for you were and are as real as yours were and are.
Looks like I taught her well.

I just don't understand it, I offered solutions, counselling as well she didn't want anything to do with it, she already made up her mind. Why bother with the tears and stuff? In the end I was also exhausted - we have been fighting about this for 2 years, and I didn't want her either if she was just going to be unhappy all the time.

On our last contact she told me her feelings are gone and she's happiest by herself or with someone who can give her what she wants from start to end. I've never spoken to her since. As hardened as I was, it could only be up to a point before I start to thaw again. For her it's just ice now, I've never seen it.

I just don't understand anymore, and if she became me, she became worse that me.

Sleeve Art Painting Cg artwork Cape


I guess the pupil became the master huh?
 

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Looks like I taught her well.

I just don't understand it, I offered solutions, counselling as well she didn't want anything to do with it, she already made up her mind. Why bother with the tears and stuff? In the end I was also exhausted - we have been fighting about this for 2 years, and I didn't want her either if she was just going to be unhappy all the time.

On our last contact she told me her feelings are gone and she's happiest by herself or with someone who can give her what she wants from start to end. I've never spoken to her since. As hardened as I was, it could only be up to a point before I start to thaw again. For her it's just ice now, I've never seen it.

I just don't understand anymore, and if she became me, she became worse that me.

View attachment 78396

I guess the pupil became the master huh?
No, not at all! It wasn't something she learned from you, to punish you with or to get back at you.
I didn't bring that up to point out that you deserved this, I was trying to explain so that you could see the parallel and understand what is happening.

It is an emotional DEFENSE MECHANISM that most humans use, just like it was for you when you would do it. She loved and loves you...she just had to close her heart off to protect it from the pain...the same way that you didn't want to deal with her emotionally and would shut down. The coldness comes from denying the attachment you feel, not from a lack of love.

When you acted that way during your fights, you were protecting your heart from a perceived danger from her. Now she is doing that. You were able to "thaw" as you say, once you felt emotionally safe again...but she has decided that she will never be emotionally safe with you...so she won't allow herself to thaw.

And you aren't seeing her right now, she could be crying and struggling every day as she let's go of her hope and love for you...do not doubt that she is grieving for the loss of what she dreamed of with you.

Her feelings and love were all VERY genuine and real, just as yours were very real.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
No, not at all! It wasn't something she learned from you, to punish you with or to get back at you.
I didn't bring that up to point out that you deserved this, I was trying to explain so that you could see the parallel and understand what is happening.

It is an emotional DEFENSE MECHANISM that most humans use, just like it was for you when you would do it. She loved and loves you...she just had to close her heart off to protect it from the pain...the same way that you didn't want to deal with her emotionally and would shut down. The coldness comes from denying the attachment you feel, not from a lack of love.

When you acted that way during your fights, you were protecting your heart from a perceived danger from her. Now she is doing that. You were able to "thaw" as you say, once you felt emotionally safe again...but she has decided that she will never be emotionally safe with you...so she won't allow herself to thaw.

And you aren't seeing her right now, she could be crying and struggling every day as she let's go of her hope and love for you...do not doubt that she is grieving for the loss of what she dreamed of with you.

Her feelings and love were all VERY genuine and real, just as yours were very real.
I don't know, she's like a different person. How could she learn to become me... worse than me... so quickly?

Just her eyes, posture, face, words, I don't know. And if she was grieving for the loss I've already offered her a way out on day 5, solutions. All that came from that was a very respectful F off.

So right now the image I have of her is joyful and happy, probably messaging the guys lined up for her who if it wasn't for the lockdown would probably be having a party going
"SHES FINALLY SINGLE! OMFG! FINALLY! WAAAA PARTY!" :LOL:

🤦‍♂️ Hell I don't know anymore.
 

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I just don't understand it, I offered solutions, counselling as well she didn't want anything to do with it, she already made up her mind. Why bother with the tears and stuff? In the end I was also exhausted - we have been fighting about this for 2 years, and I didn't want her either if she was just going to be unhappy all the time.
From what you wrote about how things ended, it sounds to me like what she wanted was for you to respond to her out of love when she was showing you she didn't want to leave...but that was when you kept pushing her away. So she gave you what you said you wanted. And that is what changed her mind finally, I believe.

You only offered her those things AFTER you knew she was pulling her heart away and you were really going to lose her. I think she got that message from you (that I bolded), and decided you were right.

And there is nothing wrong with this, I am NOT saying you are to blame!! But I think she is trying to do the mature, best thing for both of you - she is trying to let go so you can both move on to better partners who will meet both of your needs in a way that you couldn't for eachother.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
From what you wrote about how things ended, it sounds to me like what she wanted was for you to respond to her out of love when she was showing you she didn't want to leave...but that was when you kept pushing her away. So she gave you what you said you wanted. And that is what changed her mind finally, I believe.

You only offered her those things AFTER you knew she was pulling her heart away and you were really going to lose her. I think she got that message from you (that I bolded), and decided you were right.
Why do women do this? If you say you want to leave, as guys what are supposed to do? I DID offer solutions before I took her home but if it's all rejected what else can we do either than give you what you want?

And there is nothing wrong with this, I am NOT saying you are to blame!! But I think she is trying to do the mature, best thing for both of you - she is trying to let go so you can both move on to better partners who will meet both of your needs in a way that you couldn't for eachother.
Yeah, and this why I defend her and say that she was not a child despite her age. What she lacked in life experience she had maturity beyond her years.

sigh
 

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I don't know, she's like a different person. How could she learn to become me... worse than me... so quickly?

Just her eyes, posture, face, words, I don't know. And if she was grieving for the loss I've already offered her a way out on day 5, solutions. All that came from that was a very respectful F off.

So right now the image I have of her is joyful and happy, probably messaging the guys lined up for her who if it wasn't for the lockdown would probably be having a party going
"SHES FINALLY SINGLE! OMFG! FINALLY! WAAAA PARTY!" :LOL:

🤦‍♂️ Hell I don't know anymore.
I really doubt she is messaging guys -- that is YOUR coping strategy, not hers. I think her heart is wounded, she was more needy than you were emotionally, and I think she is going to be very cautious going forward. Her relationship with you probably taught her alot about herself and what she wants. I doubt a line of new guys offers anything of any value for her.

I think on Day 5, she was done. The person she was before was open-hearted to you and loved you and trusted you. This new person has closed her heart to you and is protecting it from her feelings for you, so she can stay strong in breaking away from you.

What you offered on Day 5 had no more value to her, because she needed it on Day 0, but you refused her then. So most likely, she sees you as unreliable emotionally, and she is believing what you told her when she first left you -- you will not change, and if you don't make her happy the way you are, you guys don't belong together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
I really doubt she is messaging guys -- that is YOUR coping strategy, not hers. I think her heart is wounded, she was more needy than you were emotionally, and I think she is going to be very cautious going forward. Her relationship with you probably taught her alot about herself and what she wants. I doubt a line of new guys offers anything of any value for her.

I think on Day 5, she was done. The person she was before was open-hearted to you and loved you and trusted you. This new person has closed her heart to you and is protecting it from her feelings for you, so she can stay strong in breaking away from you.

What you offered on Day 5 had no more value to her, because she needed it on Day 0, but you refused her then. So most likely, she sees you as unreliable emotionally, and she is believing what you told her when she first left you -- you will not change, and if you don't make her happy the way you are, you guys don't belong together.
sigh Yeah, QFT.

Fine, if this is true, think I'll keep the momentos then. It was real after all, kinda makes it quite a lot more depressing you know.
 

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Why do women do this? If you say you want to leave, as guys what are supposed to do? I DID offer solutions before I took her home but if it's all rejected what else can we do either than give you what you want?
Well, from what you wrote (and I don't remember exactly), I think most of the solutions were, I'm ME and I can't change.
You said she was standing there crying, and YOU took her stuff out to the car so she could leave you...is that what happened?

I do believe she needed more from you emotionally than you were willing to give her, and you didn't sound like you were willing to even TRY, which is ok, no one should change if they don't want to, and maybe you are totally correct about your emotional needs just being too far apart...BUT then what you are seeing in how she acted with you, and how she is acting now, is just her attempts to let you go and break away. She HAS to become a different person, because the person you know would do almost anything for you and wanted you in her heart -- she can't feel that now if she is going to move on without you. She IS trying to be a different person to you.

Yeah, and this why I defend her and say that she was not a child despite her age. What she lacked in life experience she had maturity beyond her years.
I know, and to be honest (and examine this when you are more able), there were parts in your threads and posts about her where she sounded more emotionally mature than you did to me. But there is nothing wrong with that! You had your strengths too, because she loved ALOT about you.

I believe her love and care for you were deep and true and very real. You should treasure it because now you know what you want, and what is possible!

Fine, if this is true, think I'll keep the momentos then. It was real after all, kinda makes it quite a lot more depressing you know.
YES...I know, and I'm SO SORRY you are going through this. It's awful, it's like a death, it really is. You just keep trying to hide from the pain of it (which I understand), but you will just be postponing your healing if you do. Let yourself grieve, don't try and escape it, because you really can't.

I really do believe that if you feel you need to chat with people, you should find a Grief and Loss group - I'll bet there are some online - and talk to people who will be able to actually help you with this whole process. Chatting women up is diverting and slightly enticing for a minute, but it's so shallow right now and not at all what you need to accomplish any REAL healing.

Remember, you don't want to use a crutch...you want two healthy feet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Well, from what you wrote (and I don't remember exactly), I think most of the solutions were, I'm ME and I can't change.
My solution was to keep trying, and seek counselling. Guess it wasn't enough.

You said she was standing there crying, and YOU took her stuff out to the car so she could leave you...is that what happened?
I just packed up her stuff ready for her, and opened the door and led her out. Took her home to her parents, and told her if that's her decision not to keep delaying it.

I do believe she needed more from you emotionally than you were willing to give her, and you didn't sound like you were willing to even TRY, which is ok, no one should change if they don't want to, and maybe you are totally correct about your emotional needs just being too far apart...BUT then what you are seeing in how she acted with you, and how she is acting now, is just her attempts to let you go and break away. She HAS to become a different person, because the person you know would do almost anything for you and wanted you in her heart -- she can't feel that now if she is going to move on without you. She IS trying to be a different person to you.
But these lessons are wrong, if she becomes me she's just going to make MY mistakes in the future. I just hope she knows what she's doing with this new mechanism of hers.

I know, and to be honest (and examine this when you are more able), there were parts in your threads and posts about her where she sounded more emotionally mature than you did to me. But there is nothing wrong with that! You had your strengths too, because she loved ALOT about you.
Damn right she was. It's kinda amazing at the same time isn't it? You know she's not even 22 yet. As much as I hate what has happened you can imagine how blessed I feel to have met someone like that and shared my life with her for 4 years.

I believe her love and care for you were deep and true and very real. You should treasure it because now you know what you want, and what is possible!
YES...I know, and I'm SO SORRY you are going through this. It's awful, it's like a death, it really is. You just keep trying to hide from the pain of it (which I understand), but you will just be postponing your healing if you do. Let yourself grieve, don't try and escape it, because you really can't.
I really do believe that if you feel you need to chat with people, you should find a Grief and Loss group - I'll bet there are some online - and talk to people who will be able to actually help you with this whole process. Chatting women up is diverting and slightly enticing for a minute, but it's so shallow right now and not at all what you need to accomplish any REAL healing.
Remember, you don't want to use a crutch...you want two healthy feet.
I just get overwhelmed with regret each time I grieve. Then I keep reading that thread written 2 years ago, her needs, my needs, not good enough. Again and again and again, reminding me that it's just incompatibility and that it's for the best. Then I grieve again and repeat. This is my hamster wheel and I want out of it as well.
 

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Damn right she was. It's kinda amazing at the same time isn't it? You know she's not even 22 yet. As much as I hate what has happened you can imagine how blessed I feel to have met someone like that and shared my life with her for 4 years.
It is amazing, and you shouldn't regret what you shared, even if you didn't get the fairy tale happy ending...you should definitely feel blessed!

I just get overwhelmed with regret each time I grieve. Then I keep reading that thread written 2 years ago, her needs, my needs, not good enough. Again and again and again, reminding me that it's just incompatibility and that it's for the best. Then I grieve again and repeat. This is my hamster wheel and I want out of it as well.
I'm sure you do feel overwhelmed...it really sucks, I know.

But what you don't see with your repeated turns around the hamster wheel is that your heart and mind are making tiny adjustments every time you experience your feelings and just SIT with the discomfort of them and process them -- you are learning a new way of coping with those feelings, and that's why it's important not to try and avoid it.

That's what the shutting down/detachment you would do during your fights was reinforcing for you - avoidance and deflection. But it's very difficult to maintain a positive relationship with another person while handling your feelings that way. You will be off that wheel when you are ready, but you can't rush it or force it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
It is amazing, and you shouldn't regret what you shared, even if you didn't get the fairy tale happy ending...you should definitely feel blessed!


I'm sure you do feel overwhelmed...it really sucks, I know.

But what you don't see with your repeated turns around the hamster wheel is that your heart and mind are making tiny adjustments every time you experience your feelings and just SIT with the discomfort of them and process them -- you are learning a new way of coping with those feelings, and that's why it's important not to try and avoid it.

That's what the shutting down/detachment you would do during your fights was reinforcing for you - avoidance and deflection. But it's very difficult to maintain a positive relationship with another person while handling your feelings that way. You will be off that wheel when you are ready, but you can't rush it or force it.
So this hamster wheel is healthy?



I don't know, but we'll see. Not much I can do anyway, this lockdown is forcing me to run the wheel whether I like it or not.
 

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So this hamster wheel is healthy?



I don't know, but we'll see. Not much I can do anyway, this lockdown is forcing me to run the wheel whether I like it or not.
Lol!!! YES, for now it is!

Like I said, try searching online for grief and loss groups, or divorce groups...I bet you would get alot of support and relief from talking to people struggling the same way you are right now.
 

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Not sure there's a right answer to this, as everyone is different. I can only say what we do in our relationship, and neither of us have any mementos from ex's. I do still have old letters from my school best friend, and certificates/assignments etc. But got rid of everything from my ex's. Not straight away, but once my husband and I became serious and decided to live together, it just didn't seem appropriate somehow to bring those things with me so I ditched them. I came across some small trinkets of his from his high school ex while clearing out a closet to make room, and asked him what he wanted to do with them and he didn't hesitate to say to toss them (good answer husband 😂 )

These were ex's though, we broke up. In the case of someone who's spouse has died, that's a different ballgame altogether. They didn't choose to leave them, they died, and the reality is that had they not died, they wouldn't be with their current partner. One of many reasons I wouldn't get involved with a widower, I just couldn't handle it, takes a very special person to do that I think.
We were going through some old photos once and ran across one of an ex i would have married had she not cheated and just used me as a play toy. I was young, 23. 1st time was late 22 or early 23....now i had ended up with a 34yr old red headed nymphomaniac so i thought i was in heaven as young man new to the sex scene with a 11yr older woman trying to kill me with sex.

Any how, wife said is this XX. I say yeah, throw it away. She said no we can keep it and stuck it in drawer with 1k other pictures. I do not want to see it again i dont know why she would say no to trash. She has nothing of her 10 yr exhubby. She walked away with her clothes and truck. She was DONE. Cattle was hers, his band equipment was paid for by her. She is like me, when its over its over. Thankful.
 

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Own the past and keep momentos to celebrate your life. There's no justification to throw away good memories.
My memories are in my mind. No need to keep trinkets of past lives. That is like keeping all your tax documents for the last 50 yrs. I live in the current life, not the past life.

My mom used to go looking for headstones of long since gone family in random cemetaries over several states. Took pictures. Yeah you found them....they are dead alright. Why waste time you have with the living kids/grandkids now, rather than wasting time looking to dig up the dead.
 

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My memories are in my mind. No need to keep trinkets of past lives. That is like keeping all your tax documents for the last 50 yrs. I live in the current life, not the past life.

My mom used to go looking for headstones of long since gone family in random cemetaries over several states. Took pictures. Yeah you found them....they are dead alright. Why waste time you have with the living kids/grandkids now, rather than wasting time looking to dig up the dead.
Everybody is different. And when you get old you'll be glad you kept some momentos because your memory won't be that great and they will bring back memories. It's really not up to one person to tell another person what momentos they can keep. That's pretty dictatorial.
 
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