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I'm not sure if i framed the question correctly; but the premise of it is, after reading the first few chapters of MMSLP, is that basically if the husband is now exhibiting alpha qualities and is only serving as the provider, the woman will wonder off to someone else.

A lot of this resonates with myself as I'm dealing with a WW right now.

I guess my question is, if neither understands the dopamine hormone and the science behind attraction, can you really fight biology? Perhpas the book goes into this later. Sure there is personal accountability and CHOICE in the mix as well...

Another question is how is the woman supposed to bring htis up to the man without him getting defensive about it?

"Hey, i think you're being a bit of a *****, you need to be more manly"...etc, haha. It just seems like without having the knowledge books like MMSLP and NMMNG offer, it can be tough for the pre-WW spouses to communicate this to the other.

Does that make sense?
 

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It's a bit difficult to understand due to the spelling mistakes. I don't think you meant 'now exhibiting alpha qualities' etc.?
 

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I'm not sure if i framed the question correctly; but the premise of it is, after reading the first few chapters of MMSLP, is that basically if the husband is now exhibiting alpha qualities and is only serving as the provider, the woman will wonder off to someone else.

A lot of this resonates with myself as I'm dealing with a WW right now.

I guess my question is, if neither understands the dopamine hormone and the science behind attraction, can you really fight biology? Perhpas the book goes into this later. Sure there is personal accountability and CHOICE in the mix as well...

Another question is how is the woman supposed to bring htis up to the man without him getting defensive about it?

"Hey, i think you're being a bit of a *, you need to be more manly"...etc, haha. It just seems like without having the knowledge books like MMSLP and NMMNG offer, it can be tough for the pre-WW spouses to communicate this to the other.

Does that make sense?
When using initials for long names, you should always write out the name the first time it is used followed by the initials in () and there after use the initials. At this point I have no clue what books you are referencing.
 

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Book are written to make money.

The betrayed spouse is never at fault for the wayward spouse cheating.

The cheater had the choice to either fix the relationship or leave it. They never have to cheat.

The biggest part is a lack of morals. People are told to do what makes them fill good. They deserve to be happy. This is true, just end the relationship before you find someone else to make you happy.
 

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No one HAS to cheat. If they are unhappy, then do something about it but cheating is not the answer.

As for telling your spouse? Yeah, it's going to be an uncomfortable conversation. You know what else is "uncomfortable" getting caught in an affair and going through MC and/or divorce for that. If someone is struggling to communicate with their spouse then they should find a proper third party to help.

When using initials for long names, you should always write out the name the first time it is used followed by the initials in () and there after use the initials. At this point I have no clue what books you are referencing.
Married Man's Sex Life Primer
No More Mr. Nice Guy
 

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I knew a couple now both dead where the wife basically stopped having sex after their children were born. He had served his purpose basically.
She threw him out of the bedroom. She said decades later that she thinks he may have cheated which sort of didn't surprise me really. They were of a generation where you just didn't divorce and in a sense I could sort of understand his affair if indeed he had one.
 

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100% of the blame falls on the cheater. Yes, you can 'fight' biology. Finding someone else attractive doesn't magically make your panties fall of and make you fall into bed with them and vice versa. Having poor boundaries leads one to that point. A series of premeditated and calculated decisions leads one to that point. A total disregard for the mental well being of you partner leads you to that point. A total lack of empathy and being completely selfish leads one to that point. Cake eaters to the max. Have some respect for your partner and yourself and leave the relationship if you want to fool around. I've noticed women often use 'exit affairs' to end a relationship instead of having the guts to do it the right way. That's what my ex did to me. Men seem to do it just because they want sexual variety and have no moral compass. Those are generalizations sure, but there's some truth in it.
 

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I guess my question is, if neither understands the dopamine hormone and the science behind attraction, can you really fight biology?
Long term? I don't know. Short term? Yes. It's called self control.

The real deal here is that we need to work with biology. For example, a woman might say "I found this great guy and I have warm feelings for him, but I am not very sexually attracted to him. However, I can see building a life with this man!" And then that woman might become more emotionally attached to the man, marry him, realize her sexual and related psychological needs aren't being met, and be tempted to cheat. Why? Because she wants both that warm, caring, stable relationship with her husband and sex that truly satisfies her mind and body. Trick is to work with biology and NOT get involved with someone you're only mildly sexually attracted to in the first place. Hold out for that best friend you want to jump every chance you get because their very way of being turns you on. Sadly, too many settle and then they or their spouses are on the internet wondering wtf because they're in a deadbedroom or someone cheated.

Hey, i think you're being a bit of a *, you need to be more manly"...etc, haha. It just seems like without having the knowledge books like MMSLP and NMMNG offer, it can be tough for the pre-WW spouses to communicate this to the other.
I'm going to level with you. Women don't want to explain to a man how to be masculine. First, we tend to not want to hurt feelings. Second, if you have to tell a man how to be masculine then there is a certain inauthenticity about it. So, a lot of women think it must be best to try to accept as-is and/or hope for spontaneous change.

The thing is, though, the cheating is 100% on your WW. WW could have A) chosen to hold out for a better match B) truly accepted her choice in mate and adhered to her vows, or ended the marriage. The choice to cheat is exactly that...a choice. She had other options, but chose infidelity.
 

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Cheating happens because of a character flaw. That's it. There are lots of other ways to deal with being unhappy. If a book says otherwise it's full of ****.

That being said, a good marital strategy for a man is to be the man your wife respects.
 

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I knew a couple now both dead where the wife basically stopped having sex after their children were born. He had served his purpose basically.
She threw him out of the bedroom. She said decades later that she thinks he may have cheated which sort of didn't surprise me really. They were of a generation where you just didn't divorce and in a sense I could sort of understand his affair if indeed he had one.
That's an interesting point, @Diana7.

I think that by throwing him out of his own bedroom and denying him any loving intimacy that she actually cheated him out of the marriage that he and she had signed up for.
 

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I'm not sure if i framed the question correctly; but the premise of it is, after reading the first few chapters of MMSLP, is that basically if the husband is now exhibiting alpha qualities and is only serving as the provider, the woman will wonder off to someone else.

A lot of this resonates with myself as I'm dealing with a WW right now.

I guess my question is, if neither understands the dopamine hormone and the science behind attraction, can you really fight biology? Perhpas the book goes into this later. Sure there is personal accountability and CHOICE in the mix as well...

Another question is how is the woman supposed to bring htis up to the man without him getting defensive about it?

"Hey, i think you're being a bit of a *, you need to be more manly"...etc, haha. It just seems like without having the knowledge books like MMSLP and NMMNG offer, it can be tough for the pre-WW spouses to communicate this to the other.

Does that make sense?
If you couldn't fight biology, half the horny 19-year-old boys in the world who weren't getting laid would slit their wrists. Everyone can override impulses if they want to. There's no scientific reason for cheating. It's just someone doing something in the wrong order that's going to hurt someone instead of doing it in the right order trying to minimize that.
 

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I knew a couple now both dead where the wife basically stopped having sex after their children were born. He had served his purpose basically.
She threw him out of the bedroom. She said decades later that she thinks he may have cheated which sort of didn't surprise me really. They were of a generation where you just didn't divorce and in a sense I could sort of understand his affair if indeed he had one.
He should have talked about the problem. If she still said no to sex then talk about options for him. Than at least she knows what is going on.
 

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Cheating is a character issue, not a biology issue. The ''ww'' could have chosen to separate, or divorce you. Cheating is something usually done when spouses don't want to leave the marriage, but they don't really want to make the marriage work, either. So, unless your wife shows remorse and truly changes, there's no hope for a fruitful marriage, in my opinion. Of course, it takes two to make a healthy marriage, but sleeping with other men usually won't help a struggling relationship. lol
 

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I don't think anything is black and white anymore. Here's a situation that happened with some people I know recently.

Long term relationship but not quite married. The couple almost never has sex anymore. Like going 6-8 months without doing anything sexual at all. The boyfriend has brought up his frustrations to her but she just kinda ignores his pleas and still doesn't have sex with him. She also doesn't show much affection, not much kissing, hugging, etc. A few years of that sort of thing. One day the guy goes out with a group of friends without his GF and kinda hooks up with one of the girls in that circle of friends. The couple immediately breaks up and he eventually gets with the new girl for real.

So, is the guy at fault for cheating? Sure, he shouldn't have done it. But does anyone seriously blame him for everything? I think his GF had a huge part to play in all that. Basically shutting him down for years and then wondering why he found someone else.
 

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If you couldn't fight biology, half the horny 19-year-old boys in the world who weren't getting laid would slit their wrists. Everyone can override impulses if they want to. There's no scientific reason for cheating. It's just someone doing something in the wrong order that's going to hurt someone instead of doing it in the right order trying to minimize that.
Absolutely. There is such a thing as self control.
 

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I guess my question is, if neither understands the dopamine hormone and the science behind attraction, can you really fight biology?
In my opinion it's a deep philosophical question. Stand by for a lecture. I understand the position of the many who have posted "100%", and they are right. We have to take responsibility for our actions. It's what the whole of our society is built on. If we start saying "hormones did it", and there's no free will, then there is no basis for laws, for contracts. If someone comes up and punches you in the face, they can't be punished, because hormones, and "they were angry and they can't help it". I've had clients tell me that.

At the same time, humans are also animals. I'd make the analogy with obesity. Scientists and doctors tend (not always, but tend) to view humans like lab animals. You give them this kind of chow, they get fat. You give them different chow, and make them run on a treadmill before they get food, then they don't get fat. The humans are basically 100% driven by their environment. "Willpower" is simply not a thing. And in a society where a particular behaviour is regarded as meritful, people will tend to do it. They may think it's their choice, but to an observer it looks entirely environment-driven. If eating confectionery all day every day is a socially acceptable thing, a lot of people will be fat. If eating tide pods is "cool" then, amazingly, children will do it. Or try to.

It looks to me like if we were simply driven by our rational minds and not hormones, very few people would choose to have children, for example. Leave that to other people.

So we are this tricky mixture: a rational mind, perilously perched on top of an animal system over which we have very little control. Usually the best we can do is to circumvent it by not putting ourselves in the way of temptation, but that's not always easy.

Returning to the original post, it would be an interesting conversation with the wife. "Wife, I forgive you, for you are just a robot driven by hormones, with no free will, no rational agency, and cannot be said to have made a decision about what you did. It's not your fault, it's mine. In recognition of this, I now require you to wear a burqa...."
 
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