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I'm going to be the lone dissenter about who moves out. I agree with OP that, given the fact they rent and the kids wouldn't have to be uprooted as much since wife will probably be primary caregiver, that wife should be allowed to stay. If kids weren't involved, I'd say kick her out. Also, what he said about there being eyes all over the neighborhood......that will probably deter her from bring home men to the apartment. If she lived somewhere new where no neighbors knew her, that probably would not be the case and the kids would suffer more than they are already going to.

OP, you sound almost relieved that she has cheated. I suspect you may be happy to have a reason to exit this marriage and not have it blamed on you. That leads me to surmise this marriage has been bad for a long while, so the girls will probably be better off in the long run to not be living in dysfunction.
 

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I'm going to be the lone dissenter about who moves out. I agree with OP that, given the fact they rent and the kids wouldn't have to be uprooted as much since wife will probably be primary caregiver, that wife should be allowed to stay. If kids weren't involved, I'd say kick her out. Also, what he said about there being eyes all over the neighborhood......that will probably deter her from bring home men to the apartment. If she lived somewhere new where no neighbors knew her, that probably would not be the case and the kids would suffer more than they are already going to.

OP, you sound almost relieved that she has cheated. I suspect you may be happy to have a reason to exit this marriage and not have it blamed on you. That leads me to surmise this marriage has been bad for a long while, so the girls will probably be better off in the long run to not be living in dysfunction.
Agree with the air of relief in the story, that's why I brought up the 'avid golfing' :smile2:
 

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Hurr, Some have already mentioned it..

PLEASE don't expect her to be a decent human being as she wasn't one already by cheating on you.. If she's been lying to you and faking it all along, what makes you think in the slightest she will be nice and reasonable after you out her to family and friends..

My Ex as yours gave me no inclination of having an affair.. Sex was several times a week.. No fights.. no issues.. I found out by chance..

But once I told her I knew.. She became a different person.. The woman who loved her kids and did everything for them once outted left me and the kids for this other man.. Mind you she wanted custody but my oldest didn't want to go and such.. So I told her I would fight her in court if necessary.. End result I have physical custody of both kids.. Paid her 10,000 dollars to keep my kids in the end.. They cost me 5k each..

This is from a woman who would make cupcakes for the kids for school cook and bake fun things for them. Buy them more cloths than they needed. If you knew her, there would have been no doubt in your mind her life was her kids..

Up until I confronted her..

We barely fought before then..

She ruined our family, our friendship our lives.. I literally live my life with my kids like she doesn't exist.. She has zero input and when she does she minimizes it.. Son having trouble in school, needs a tutor.. I'm making a big deal out of it.. The day before I get a tutor the school offers for free 2 days after school to help with math and english.. I put him in there.. I was happy to save the money because I knew she wasn't going to help out with any money..

I cannot recall the last time we actually spoke to each other since the divorce.. But I remember telling her I loved her every fvcking day when we were together..

I hope everything works the way you want it to.. But trust me I would honestly prepare for the worst and hope for the best, because I honestly did not see any of this coming..

Mind you, you are clearly stronger than I was when it came to this.. I was utterly beside myself and a total wreck.. I couldn't even think straight at all.. I relied on other people to make sense for me.. I knew I wasn't right and I just had to listen to others to point me in the right direction.. Luckly everyone had sound advice for me or at least I was smart enough to understand what sound advice was..

But do NOT give anything away to her.. You think she will NOT Bring anyone over when you're gone..

I didn't think my ex wife would be grooming my youngest to accept this man MONTHS before she decided to leave, when I thought we were working it all out.

This is NOT the woman you think she was when you married her..

Keep posting.. Good luck..
 

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What is your wife getting out of church? Doesn't make much sense to be a churchgoer and a full-throttled adulteress.
Adultery is quite common amongst church goers and clergy. Humans are still human.

Perhaps she is getting relief from any guilt of the affair by going to church. Maybe she deludes herself by thinking she is a good person for going to church. Maybe she is using church as a cover so people won't think she is doing anything wrong. Maybe she compartmentalizes her affair from the rest of her life, so she doesn't see the contradiction.
 

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Hurr, Some have already mentioned it..

PLEASE don't expect her to be a decent human being as she wasn't one already by cheating on you.. If she's been lying to you and faking it all along, what makes you think in the slightest she will be nice and reasonable after you out her to family and friends..

My Ex as yours gave me no inclination of having an affair.. Sex was several times a week.. No fights.. no issues.. I found out by chance..

But once I told her I knew.. She became a different person.. The woman who loved her kids and did everything for them once outted left me and the kids for this other man.. Mind you she wanted custody but my oldest didn't want to go and such.. So I told her I would fight her in court if necessary.. End result I have physical custody of both kids.. Paid her 10,000 dollars to keep my kids in the end.. They cost me 5k each..

This is from a woman who would make cupcakes for the kids for school cook and bake fun things for them. Buy them more cloths than they needed. If you knew her, there would have been no doubt in your mind her life was her kids..

Up until I confronted her..

We barely fought before then..

She ruined our family, our friendship our lives.. I literally live my life with my kids like she doesn't exist.. She has zero input and when she does she minimizes it.. Son having trouble in school, needs a tutor.. I'm making a big deal out of it.. The day before I get a tutor the school offers for free 2 days after school to help with math and english.. I put him in there.. I was happy to save the money because I knew she wasn't going to help out with any money..

I cannot recall the last time we actually spoke to each other since the divorce.. But I remember telling her I loved her every fvcking day when we were together..

I hope everything works the way you want it to.. But trust me I would honestly prepare for the worst and hope for the best, because I honestly did not see any of this coming..

Mind you, you are clearly stronger than I was when it came to this.. I was utterly beside myself and a total wreck.. I couldn't even think straight at all.. I relied on other people to make sense for me.. I knew I wasn't right and I just had to listen to others to point me in the right direction.. Luckly everyone had sound advice for me or at least I was smart enough to understand what sound advice was..

But do NOT give anything away to her.. You think she will NOT Bring anyone over when you're gone..

I didn't think my ex wife would be grooming my youngest to accept this man MONTHS before she decided to leave, when I thought we were working it all out.

This is NOT the woman you think she was when you married her..

Keep posting.. Good luck..
Holy hell. You must have found my ex's long lost twin.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Adultery is quite common amongst church goers and clergy. Humans are still human.

Perhaps she is getting relief from any guilt of the affair by going to church. Maybe she deludes herself by thinking she is a good person for going to church. Maybe she is using church as a cover so people won't think she is doing anything wrong. Maybe she compartmentalizes her affair from the rest of her life, so she doesn't see the contradiction.
To her she has hoodwinked me. I often feel she has so little regard for my feelings, intelligence and respect. I mean how can she go sleep with the OM on Saturday morning and during the Sunday service she happily sits like next to me and starts furiously typing notes in her phone highlighting important Bible verses? I take solace in that even Osama Bin Laden used to pray 5 times a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I'm going to be the lone dissenter about who moves out. I agree with OP that, given the fact they rent and the kids wouldn't have to be uprooted as much since wife will probably be primary caregiver, that wife should be allowed to stay. If kids weren't involved, I'd say kick her out. Also, what he said about there being eyes all over the neighborhood......that will probably deter her from bring home men to the apartment. If she lived somewhere new where no neighbors knew her, that probably would not be the case and the kids would suffer more than they are already going to.

OP, you sound almost relieved that she has cheated. I suspect you may be happy to have a reason to exit this marriage and not have it blamed on you. That leads me to surmise this marriage has been bad for a long while, so the girls will probably be better off in the long run to not be living in dysfunction.
Thanks so much for your lone dissenting voice. At this point in my life, however, I know rationality may not be my strongest attribute. So I will seek those with varying opinions on this issue to guide me. My main worry at this point is just my children's needs. She knows that the children are her biggest bond to me and knowing her, she will not hesitate to use them to meet this need. She would love nothing more than to fight for their upkeep because through them she will get financial support. Also they are good kids and I can think her wanting to keep them to remind her of how a semblance of a normal life looks like. At least in the short term. She doesn't work, so she as the primary caretaker of the kids. Lastly, I relocated the family from my previous home to the current residence to be near my new business. Now that the business has stablished I no longer need to live here. I would love to relocate to my previous home.

You mention that I sound almost eager to be ending this marriage. That is true. We have had a lousy marriage. This woman checked out a long time ago, maybe 3 years into the marriage. This is going to be the second time I caught her in an affair. The first time we had false R. I really didn't know how to handle it then. And I was desperate to be married so as to "look normal" without knowing the toll this would eventually have in my life. Now that this is happening the second time, I see it as my opportunity to reinvent my self, work out my life afresh, look for someone whom we can have a normal true relationship, share conversations, hang out together, and truly care for each other. This type of marriage this woman wants us to have is simply not my kind of thing. This is an awful marriage.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
First off, Hurr, you must be feeling miserable. I am sorry you are going through this pain.

A few observations and questions about your predicament.

1 - The friend who called you about this? May not be a friend. This person had a feeling that something funny was going on. But they "played dumb" and called and asked if you had changed addresses. This person MIGHT be the kindest soul on earth. But there is also a chance that s/he is a meddling busybody; and is thoroughly enjoying every minute of this. Just something to keep in mind.

2 - What does "severally" mean in this context? Sorry, just trying to understand.

3 - When your wife was gone 10x, for 2-6 hours; where were you? Who was watching the kids? Who was fixing dinner or getting the chores done - or how could she miss this much worktime?

4 - Why did you have to take drives and hide to be alone?

5 - If you were going to drop off your kids at the event; why did it matter that they missed the bus?

6 - What is your wife getting out of church? Doesn't make much sense to be a churchgoer and a full-throttled adulteress.

7 - I would get a PI to set up the cameras. Because what you know now is damning; but not proof positive.

8 - I agree with everyone else; she leaves, you don't.
intheory,

Thanks for combing through my post. Here are my answers.

1. Yes, I have myself thought the common friend is enjoying this too much. But then I ask, so what? Does it change or affect the facts? No it doesn't. Is it true that she visits the OM? Yes. Does she park her car there for the world to see? Yes. Does she spend hours with OM in his house? Yes. Also please remember that were it not for this friend, I would never have known about this A.

2. Severally parked means it was seen parked in the OM apartment Block a number of times in different days.

3. My W doesn't have a job perse. She does part time office supplies. She can stay for days just hanging around. She does not look for work. And she has househelps who come in and do house chores form time to time. Things like washing clothes, ironing,cleaning the house are done that way. So when kids go to school, she has the whole day to herself. And she can extend that to say 10-11pm. In the few days I have been out of town the phone records I have show her talking to the other man at 4.00am. Meaning she just got home and was alerting him that she is safe.

4. So why do I drive away as if am hiding. To read and interpret the phone records that I got from the PI has taken many hours. It has meant that I have to refer to my own diary to know where I was at particular times when she was with the OM. Also I have needed to true caller many of the contacts she has been talking to to know whom she has been talking to. To create a proper pattern of her movements and to map her meetings with the OM has been tedious. I can't exactly remove a 100page dossier and place it on the coffee table and start perusing her phone records, can I. Some discretion was necessary.

5. I was to drop the kids where the bus was to pick them. Being a Saturday this was not a normal school event. They were going on a school tour and both parents and teachers had agreed that we from them at a common pickup point.

6. Church. Hehehe, maybe she goes there for the purpose of repentance. Maybe she subscribes to the doctrine that she can sing the whole week and so long as she confesses to God on Sunday, her sins will be forgiven. Maybe.

7. Ultimately, the decision of whether it is me to leave or her should in my opinion be pegged strictly on my kids' welfare. This woman will create so much drama claiming that she can't be separated frome her kids and whatnot. My kids are innocent. For them I can leave them in this house. I will even pay for at least 3 more months so that they are not thrown to the streets. This woman cannot afford the rentals I pay for this house. Why punish my kids for the shortcomings of their parents?
 

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Why do you think your WW checked out three years into the marriage?

What were the circumstances around the first affair? Was it a PA?
 

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I agree with you that it doesn't matter what the motivation of the friend was (the one who alerted you). Maybe she likes drama and/or gossip, but so what?

You really need to see an attorney. She doesn't work (much) and can't afford the rent......she's going to be entitled to child support and probably alimony. If if the divorce isn't contested, you're not painting a picture of a woman who's going to take it easy on you, financially speaking.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Holy hell. You must have found my ex's long lost twin.
You have captured my fears very well. We have 3 beautiful dogs, but the more our marriage has deteriorated the more she has neglected them. She actually mistreats them as a way of getting at me. I can relate with your situation.

Chances are my wife will probably relocate to another country. And I don't see her going with the kids. The reason she keeps contacts with her exes is for this exact reason. One lives in UK, the other in Canada. And if it came to that, I would probably be the happiest man I can imagine. I would love to personally bring up my gals in a way I know they are not being brought up at this time. She is a good mother to the children, but sometimes she confuses her myopic worldview with reality. In a number of times when we have had differences I have seen her draw the kids into our fights in a way to win their sympathy. My kids deserve to be brought up to appreciate the true beauty of a woman is in her values, personality and character. Not in whorish and loose morals.
 

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Discussion Starter #34

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Sounds to me like you disconnected from her the first time she cheated on you and the two of you just never reconnected on any meaningful level. What I think it boils down to is for you to choose whether or not you want a wife or a live-in babysitter who you have sex with every once in a while.

Me? I would want a wife who is faithful, loves me and desires me and who would be a mother who would offer a good role model for her daughters.

Your wife is none of these things.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Maybe it would be better to move them NOW, so they can get settled in a new place and be better prepared for the new school they will eventually find themselves in. You know, since she can't afford that house, and you won't be able to afford two households for the next 15 years.
Moving now can only happen after I confront her, something that almost everyone here has advised me not to do until the lawyers give me proper advice how to handle this. And after I confront her, I expect at first (for at least one week) she will be ****y and appear like she can move on. In fact since I believe her sister knows about her A very well, I expect they will gang up and even undertake to pay for this house for the foseable future. Such future will at most be 3 months. After that she will probably relocate to a cheaper house.

About my kids education, that I will continue to pay in full. So it doesn't matter that we divorce as far as their education is concerned. Even their school bus and general upkeep is something I will do with love. What I can't pay, however, is the rent where their mother stays.
 

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Sounds to me like you disconnected from her the first time she cheated on you and the two of you just never reconnected on any meaningful level. What I think it boils down to is for you to choose whether or not you want a wife or a live-in babysitter who you have sex with every once in a while.

Me? I would want a wife who is faithful, loves me and desires me and who would be a mother who would offer a good role model for her daughters.

Your wife is none of these things.
Hehehe bandit.45, can't agree more. The thing with false R is that the cheater goes underground in a lot of levels. In her case, she tightened the loopholes which had made me catch her in the first place. She stopped using home computer, she put passwords on her devices, hid every possible thing that could enable me know what she is doing. To add insult to injury she looked for, found and destroyed all the backups I had saved of her cheating emails. The net effect is that this created a distance between us, suspicion grew and the marriage became poisoned. Then she refused to work, preferring instead to do small time businesses of selling office stationary, handbags, wallets, shoes etc. Call it hawking. I believe this is how she met the OM.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I agree with you that it doesn't matter what the motivation of the friend was (the one who alerted you). Maybe she likes drama and/or gossip, but so what?

You really need to see an attorney. She doesn't work (much) and can't afford the rent......she's going to be entitled to child support and probably alimony. If if the divorce isn't contested, you're not painting a picture of a woman who's going to take it easy on you, financially speaking.
I like your analysis of her situation but let me tell you something interesting. In my first post I wrote that my new business which I moved to our new position to setup is now at least giving me some money. Because she doesn't like the business, or me for that matter she doesn't know this. To her, the business was a bad idea, it translocated her from her social circles, it's not prestigious for her to brag about and it looses me money instead of spending on her. I really struggled for the first two years as any new business would, but now I can see returns starts to trickle in. She doesn't know this. Actually to her I have lost the plot, and I think my paying of school fees for my kids will be good enough for her. But again who knows. As many have already pointed out, she might change to some animal I cannot recognise. But I think that even if any court was to demand of me to pay her alimony and/ or upkeep it would have to be proven that I can afford the amounts decreed. She knows am broke. She doesn't expect much. If she asked for anything like that she would have a hell of time proving that I can afford it. She many times sympathises with my foolishness of running a business without a future. She is that gullible.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Why do you think your WW checked out three years into the marriage?

What were the circumstances around the first affair? Was it a PA?
It's actually 4 years, not 3. And that's about the time I caught her in her first A.

The circumstance in her first affair. I then ran a business with her and she was the face of the business. The OM man was a customer of ours. That was a truly painful experience. In a way it has acted as a pain cushion for the current A. I can at least now rationalise that this marriage will never get well. It's death is imminent. A man can only fight for so hard for so long. There comes a time to say bye.
 

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Talk to an attorney. Depending on what state you live in, child support and/or alimony may not be up for compromise. Many places award the non-working spouse a minimum of 3 years of alimony to get on their feet.

I think you are doing great, being very rational about it. But go in with your eyes open, knowledge is power. Once you serve her divorce papers, she will try to tell you how it is going to go.....what she wants, expects, and feels entitled to. YOU can have control by educating yourself beforehand. You could look up the divorce laws in your state.... it's all broken into categories and easy to read so you can click around and learn a few things.

Good luck.... see an attorney!
 
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