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And then I'll project my bug-bear - which is people who itemize bills. Okay, so if you're going dutch just split it down the middle. Don't itemize who had the steak compared to the salad, the whiskey compared to water, dessert and coffee afterwards or not... whatever... that kind of thing makes my head explode. Just go half and don't keep tabs. If you're hanging with people who would take advantage of this, then consider why you're choosing to be around them.
A friend of mine used to waitress in NY and she always claims that the worst customers ever are groups of young women and the best customers are groups of men (any age).
The women will ask for the bill and then out comes the calculator on their phones and everything is calculated to the last cent.
The men will get the bill, add the tip and then round it up to the nearest figure easily divided by the number of men in the group.
I’m sure she was exaggerating but I have heard restaurant staff saying that they hate serving a group of young women because they tip so poorly.
 

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I'm thinking a dating thread for married couples might be needed, for kicks n giggles. But aligned with Sebastian Maniscalco's hospitality - that is something I value. And I guess I would consider dating as being hospitality-related, in a sense. It's about sharing an experience, getting to know one another, and the social considerations make it special. As I've shared, I haven't dated as a single person in .............a very long time. Although I don't cook, or have interest in cooking, I do like hosting and considering others. That side of me has been influenced by the hosting experiences of my dad's wife, and really, through friends who are an Italian couple. Being on the receiving end had me recognizing that, oh yes, that's how I want to host. My friend's Italian husband, in particular, inadvertently taught me a thing or two about hosting through his behavior.

Having friends over, there's options of drinks, including the soda that I know you particularly like which we wouldn't normally get. Or I know you only drink wine from that region and from a certain year. Or you're visiting with kids? There's games and a space set up especially for them, so you can relax. If I'm picking up someone from the airport; I'm like an uber. Bottled water and a snack is at the ready after the flight. To me, these things signal, 'I got you.' Like I said, I've been on the receiving end and inspired as a result.

To me, dating is connected with hospitality and consideration. As a married couple, perhaps it's dressing well, being on time, the car is cleaned, arrangements sorted.
 

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Discussion Starter #364 (Edited)
Absolutely....no one likes surprises. I found the more mature older women (35 and over) really appreciated that and may of them went on to be either good friends or more. The one's that had a negative reaction (usually the younger ones...despite all the "strong independent woman" bull*hit).....never went anywhere and was a good way to weed through the good ones and the pure waste of time.
how do you tell her????

"hey we will go out together but make sure you pay your half!" ???? :rolleyes:

I would've dumped you before you even finished the sentence. 😂
 
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Discussion Starter #365
I am typically a fan of chivalry. I've mentioned before, that even friends and I are quite 'chivalrous' with one another. I connect it with consideration. Such as having a drink they'd like at the ready for when they arrive (sometimes), or saying 'this is on me..' without keeping tabs. Or better yet, my all time favorite which I learned from Batman, is the old taking care of payment without your guest realizing. Sometimes Batman and I will do this with each other... even though our money is shared. Settle the bill on the way to the restroom and return to the table without saying anything
Exactly!

I like chivalry among friends and I've learned it from my mother who is quite chivalrous with her friends (whether males or females).
My dad though was never a chivalrous type and whenever we'd go out as a family, either me or mom would always pay.

I also love it when the other person takes care of the bill without making it obvious - it comes an interesting surprise when he says "It's okay, I already took care of this". I love this, but hardly any man is like this nowadays. Such manners are usually rooted during the upbringing of a person so not everyone can do this.
 

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Didn't think this would be such a controversial topic, but here we go.

I'm always prepared to pay for the first few dates with a potential good match, even if she is the one who initiates contact (and that's not uncommon for me). Reasons:

First, it's gentlemanly. Ladies are attracted to guys who will put forth the effort to take care of an outing and make her feel special and cared-for. Second, I tend towards the generous side. I don't do blind dates - I'll have gotten to know a lady a bit and sometimes be acquainted with her prior to going out. So I'm already feeling some potential before even going out, and covering the bill is not a problem. I cover the bill for my regular friends too - just something I like to do.

Third, I might want something nice for myself and not care about the bill. I'm not going to do a nice teppan meal (yeah I like that) and then ask to split a $100 tab. Nor am I going to go somewhere I'm not really feeling just to keep a date under some specified threshold. It has nothing to do with being pretentious - just a matter of enjoying the fruits of my labor.

After the first few dates I do things a little differently. At that point, the mutual interest is there or it's not. If it's not, there's no reason to put any more effort than I'd do for an ordinary friendship. If the mutual interest is there and a relationship is a possibility, then our interactions should start to resemble what a workable relationship looks like.

And to me, that means having mutuality of effort. I don't mind doing the heavier lifting in a relationship. But ladies who expect to just sit back and have everything done are not for me. That goes beyond showing a lady that you got things handled, to reinforcing a sense that her time and resources are inherently more valuable than mine.

My approach is that any date is my equal - neither superior nor inferior. I bring a lot to the table and choose to be chivalrous and generous with what I have. But it's a choice not mandatory and there needs to be some reciprocity.

ETA: Lest someone misunderstand me, my ultimate goal is to have someone put in effort relative to her capability and show investment in the relationship. For a while I dated a lady with two kids who had family responsibilities and often not a lot of spare cash. With her, I was happy to split a pizza, or popcorn at the movies; it was what she could do and that was fine. With another lady (professional, good job, no kids) I expected a little more because she was able to do more. In fact, with her not having kids she probably could afford more than I did.

It all depends.
 

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Discussion Starter #368
@DTO your approach sounds fair enough. Depending on the woman your dating, your expectations vary when it comest to the amount she shall contribute but at least you don't rush to show her she'd rather split the bill or you're out.
 

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@DTO your approach sounds fair enough. Depending on the woman your dating, your expectations vary when it comes to the amount she shall contribute but at least you don't rush to show her she'd rather split the bill or you're out.
Hmmm, that sounds like a little bit of a backhanded compliment: "at least you don't rush" but not unfair.

I guess the best way to put it is (like I said) I don't mind doing the work in the beginning "getting to know you" first few dates. And at that point don't mind doing the heavier lifting from that point forward. But she does have to put in enough effort to demonstrate that she's willing to invest as well.

As far as my expectations varying depending on the lady, I don't think that's an accurate portrayal. I'm looking for a level of effort. But how that effort looks will vary depending on the lady. Not all have the same capability to provide and allowances need to be made.

Not too long ago, I dated a lady who was doing well. In fact, when we first met she was doing better than I was - really good job, no children. I paid the first few outings and still did the heavier lifting after that because that's just how I am. But it had gotten much more even than at the beginning; she wanted to show she was invested as well (which is how I want it).

Eventually that ran it's course. The next lady was still building a career, had two kids - much more going on. She's the generous type but just didn't have as much to give. I adjusted my expectations, because it would be foolish to expect something she didn't have to give. She did more than enough to show she was invested, and the sacrifices she made were as meaningful to her as those made by the first lady I mentioned, even if it didn't look like as much was done.

Hope that clarifies things.
 

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I'll say this.
Anyone who drops a hundo plus on a first date IMO is a pretentious clown.
The purpose of the first date or two (at least) is to determine interest and explore possibilities.
That is best accomplished by meeting for coffee, drinks, and other low or no cost activities such as that.
That's why I made the comment I did about how I deal with women who insist to pay their way on the first date. This type of activity does not merit that kind of response. I found that such a policy served as a useful tool in the vetting process.
My feeling on relationships was (and is) I want a woman that wants to be with me, not with my wallet.
In my life, I have turned down two marriage proposals (from women), an offer to shack up, been engaged twice, and married once.
The woman that I have spent the last 28 years with and I will be celebrating our 26th wedding anniversary tomorrow.
Never dropping a hundo plus on a first date worked for me.

That kind of 1st date would make me uncomfortable....I'd think there were expectations.

We went to a planetarium show for $5 each (he paid) and then had another date for lunch that involved $10 salads (he paid for that too).

We'd kind of known each other already (athletic club) so I knew we had chemistry and I liked him.

Four months later we went to dinner for valentine's day and that dinner probably cost $60...he paid for that too...but by this time we were regular and intimate.

We're a year and a,half in now and really don't eat out much, but when we do I don't mind paying (we take turns).
 

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Since the very beginning my girlfriend fights with me over who pays (EDIT: should clarify, we both want to pay!). We even developed a game out of it to stop the fighting, "shotgun" rules and scissors paper rock to break ties - sometimes in front of onlookers who impatiently roll their eyes at us. And she does this even while earning a fraction of my income.

I believe a man, as a man must volunteer to pay, always. But it is also up to the woman to show that she herself is willing to contribute. Even though I prefer to pay, I appreciate the latter even in the attempt, and in fact, if a woman doesn't show such initiative I must admit I would not consider a future with her. Money comes and goes but attitude, that's more permanent.
 

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she is not a feminist? she is independent, picking up a check, she works, she probably votes too. Hell, she is a feminist, that's all feminism is about.

You don't sound like you like women too much in general, do you?
I agree. But, I am more sympathetic (I am a man, so perhaps that is almost inevitable).
When people are being oppressed, they will want to over throw the system. After that, some will want a different oppressor, some will want to oppress themselves and others (a small minority) will want freedom and liberty for all.
 

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how do you tell her????

"hey we will go out together but make sure you pay your half!" ???? :rolleyes:

I would've dumped you before you even finished the sentence. 😂
If you can't pay for your own meal, or appreciate upfront honesty, then you don't deserve me. I'm not your meal ticket. The whole trick of rummaging through your purse pretending to contribute to the check doesn't fly with me. If you're an "independent woman"....then back it up.
I would have swiped left on your leech ass before even contemplating a date lol :unsure:
 

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I have to admit, I like to pay my portion on the first couple dates if it's with someone I don't really know. For example, I knew a guy from yoga and thought he was kind of cute...and asked him to coffee (this was like 20 years ago). I didn't expect him to buy my coffee--I invited him and it was just to start getting to know each other. So to me it's like one equal meeting another equal to see if there's anything there. If he paid, I believe he may feel "I owe him" and I won't put myself in that kind of position for someone I don't know.

If I invite out to dinner--I pay! And I don't invite to something like dinner until I know the man, like the man, want to date the man, and think there's the possibility of dessert. ;) If that is where the relationship is, yeah I might say "Want to go to dinner? I'm buying so let's go to my favorite...." And then after a bit if he asks me to dinner, yep he pays. And a bit after that, if we're getting serious, we switch to letting him pay for dinner, and I chip in for something else like gas or a bottle of wine, etc. Finally, with EB and I we have joint accounts, both have access to each other's accounts, and just pay for almost everything together.
 

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If you can't pay for your own meal, or appreciate upfront honesty, then you don't deserve me. I'm not your meal ticket. The whole trick of rummaging through your purse pretending to contribute to the check doesn't fly with me. If you're an "independent woman"....then back it up.
I would have swiped left on your leech ass before even contemplating a date lol :unsure:
Most women can pay for their own meal, and aren't looking for a meal ticket when they go on dates.

They are looking for other qualities, and being calculative isn't exactly an attractive quality, nor is a good trait to have when married. A woman doesn't want to have to argue over money and contributions all her life. Just as a woman who takes takes takes, and doesn't give back is unattractive, a calculative man is as well.

Just my two cents.
 

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I personally think it’s unattractive to always split the meal. I am so generous. Extremely generous with other things, that I don’t think expecting the man to pay for my meal is bad.

I think that how generous the person is to you matters. If the man is buying my flowers, and jewelry and little gifts, and taking me on different adventures and other dates that he pays for/or plans, I have no problem splitting the meal, or paying every other turn.

Personally, it’s expensive to be a girl. It’s expensive to look nice, and keep up with our “maintenance”. I also always have my refrigerator stocked, and purposely buy the kind of beer/drink my partner likes.
 

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If you can't pay for your own meal, or appreciate upfront honesty, then you don't deserve me. I'm not your meal ticket. The whole trick of rummaging through your purse pretending to contribute to the check doesn't fly with me. If you're an "independent woman"....then back it up.
I would have swiped left on your leech ass before even contemplating a date lol :unsure:
I certainly didn't see my now husband as my 'meal ticket' when we met or went on our first date. I was working full time, had my own home, two cars, I could easily have paid for our meal. What I wanted was to feel special, taken care of, treated a little. A bit of old fashioned romance. I wouldn't have cared whether our first date was for coffee, or lunch at a nice cafe. I never expected it to be a fancy, five star restaurant.

And, further - since marriage we have sold our other home (imo when we married it became ours, as opposed to mine), and he has benefited greatly financially from that, so I'd say he did alright in the end wouldn't you? Even though he paid for all of our dates. He also got a loving, proud, devoted stepmumma for his beautiful daughter thrown in just for fun.
 

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how do you tell her????

"hey we will go out together but make sure you pay your half!" ???? :rolleyes:

I would've dumped you before you even finished the sentence. 😂
It's simple.....it's on my dating profile. First date, mutual / equal ground I will gladly pay for my own meal. I've had female friends brag about how they never paid for meals when they were single and using guys for free meal and dates to save money.
This BS is real........unfortunately it's easy to play it of....but it ain't working on this guy. If you expect me to pay on day one...what else will you be expecting.
 
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