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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This came up in a thread else where in the forum but it got me thinking and talking to my son's and grandsons over Christmas. It seems males today are much more modest around not only other men but it seem around women more so than they were back 30-40 years ago.

I am in my late 60s and though some men were modest in general most men were not as they are today. Nor was how society treated males and modesty. Example at the YMCA males we required to swim nude. It did not seem to be a concern and it was treated as normal. Based on what my grandsons tell me as well as my sons boys do not even shower after gym class these days.

I do not know they average age on this site but wonder, how many men here are modest when it comes to using public showers or going to the gym. Or in general, it was not uncommon when I was in my youth to skinny dip with my male buddies. There was nothing sexual about it, it was just easier to strip and swim in the lake than carry around swimming shorts or to get our clothing wet.

In my late teens early 20s it was common for mixed couples to swim together. Most times everyone would swim natural. I do recall some of the girls would wear bottoms but most were always topless. When I mentioned this to my grandsons as part of the discussion they seemed shocked.

I guess I am wondering if this is the new norm for men under the age of say about age 30? I have read a interesting analogy as to why by jaquen. I was just curious why males today are more modest. The thread was well viewed with over 43,277 looks, on something that in my past was seldom even talked about. Men just knew the answer for the most part since there was less modesty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think North American culture is becoming more modest as a whole, not just for men. From the little I know, it seems Europeans have far less hang-ups about nudity than North Americans.
There is no question Northern Europe is far less modest than Americans. Back when I was stationed in Germany they were more so but nothing like it is today. Last time I went on a business trip to Germany and visited a sauna it was coed and there was no modesty. Everyone seemed relaxed and no hang ups.

When I was young my Mom and the other ladies were more modest than men. But even they were more relaxed with themselves than women today. My wife was modest but did not worry to much around me in the bedroom. But it seems males today are on about the same level as women and that was never the case when I was growing up.

Seems like males and females get all there input as to shape and size of other people from media sources these days. From what I see online and in line at the grocery store magazine rack the people are not your average shape or size.

Hope do you think people today feel or have the desire to look like what they see in the media?
 

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I wonder if it has anything to do with how people grow up today versus how they did in the past. It wasn't unusual in the past for siblings to share bedrooms. Obviously you're going to frequently see your sibling getting dressed or getting ready for bed under those conditions.

Today, families are smaller and houses are bigger so many kids grow up having their own room and the sense of privacy that entails.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I wonder if it has anything to do with how people grow up today versus how they did in the past. It wasn't unusual in the past for siblings to share bedrooms. Obviously you're going to frequently see your sibling getting dressed or getting ready for bed under those conditions.

Today, families are smaller and houses are bigger so many kids grow up having their own room and the sense of privacy that entails.
That would make sense, when I was growing up my bro and I not only shared a bed room in a small house, we had to take bathes together till age 7 or 8. My Father was very cheap, a depression age man and cheap. Joint baths saved water, and only allowed 5" of water in the tub.
 

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Seems like males and females get all there input as to shape and size of other people from media sources these days. From what I see online and in line at the grocery store magazine rack the people are not your average shape or size.

Hope do you think people today feel or have the desire to look like what they see in the media?
Definitely.
 

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My father in law grew up in the Boy Scouts skinny dipping, but now the rules strictly forbid it for any Boy Scout swimming.

My youngest son is 10. For years my wife has gone into the bathroom while he showered to help him wash his hair (because he did such a bad job of it). About 2 weeks ago she went to help him and discovered the bathroom door locked. lol I guess he's found his modesty!
 

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That would make sense, when I was growing up my bro and I not only shared a bed room in a small house, we had to take bathes together till age 7 or 8. My Father was very cheap, a depression age man and cheap. Joint baths saved water, and only allowed 5" of water in the tub.
That kinda passed on to my generation as well. Mom took showers with us girls for the first few years, then we girls took baths together. LOL not saying it was only 5" of water, but we still had to share our baths until we got to about age... 9? 10? Anyway, even when we were kids, we never swam nude... not together, not with anyone else. Not even "just topless". But even our guy friends never did. One sister and I are mid-late thirties. Our guy friends are the same age group. My husband is on the edge of that "cut off" age you mentioned. And he never did either. So I can't say it's an age thing, really. I think it's more in how each family has raised their children.

For about 4 years, we shared a bedroom with our children. That's not just one child at a time...that's all three of them. So, the personal space idea doesn't always apply either. As I said, I think it's more about how the parents raise their children, rather than the ages. For instance, I breastfed all three of my kids. I have shown my son that it isn't something to be ashamed of, and that if he sees a woman doing it, to not shame her in any way. At the same time, I also have expressed my displeasure (as has his dad) at women who parade around in virtually nothing, purely to get attention. Anyway, that's just my opinion on the subject.
 

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In the US, I think it has alot to do with how easy it is to be "accused" of something and/or have your actions or lack of modesty misinterpreted. You can't say or do anything, much less wear anything, without someone acting as the morality police and quickly involving the real police as a result.
 

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As a parent I think it's fear based. The news is filled with stories of child abuse and molestation. Pull up the register and there is a sex offender in every neighborhood. Teachers, bus drivers, pastors and yes other kids.

I'm married to a cop so I know what I speak of. So yes we teach modesty because we think it offers some version of 'safety' even though it probably doesn't.
 

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Our first place only had a bath. I used to have to sneak up to the bathroom because as soon as my son and daughter discovered I was having a bath they would immediately strip off and jump in with me. Bath time with dad seemed to be fun time.
I have bathed with my grandsons but not with my step granddaughter as that did not seem right.

Is that my hangup or proper prudence do you think?
 

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As a parent I think it's fear based. The news is filled with stories of child abuse and molestation. Pull up the register and there is a sex offender in every neighborhood. Teachers, bus drivers, pastors and yes other kids.

I'm married to a cop so I know what I speak of. So yes we teach modesty because we think it offers some version of 'safety' even though it probably doesn't.
I agree with this.
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My youngest son is 10. For years my wife has gone into the bathroom while he showered to help him wash his hair (because he did such a bad job of it). About 2 weeks ago she went to help him and discovered the bathroom door locked. lol I guess he's found his modesty!
It's funny how this happens. One day they'll change right in front of you without a second thought...the next day they have their bedroom door locked with a chair wedged against it. It's almost as though a switch gets flipped.
 

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As a parent I think it's fear based. The news is filled with stories of child abuse and molestation. Pull up the register and there is a sex offender in every neighborhood. Teachers, bus drivers, pastors and yes other kids.

I'm married to a cop so I know what I speak of. So yes we teach modesty because we think it offers some version of 'safety' even though it probably doesn't.
I believe it's perception. I think just as much, if not more, inappropriate behaviour occurred in the past. Back then though it was considered shameful..for the victim as well as the perpetrator...and was often hidden.

I recall as a kid creepy guys in the neighbourhood who would give candies to kids to go to their houses. All us kids knew who these guys were. Some kids went and others didn't. I never thought much about it at the time...just that the guy was strange. I don't recall any fuss ever being made about it. When I think back on it it's scary what potentially happened. I wasn't one of the kids who would go so I don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
That kinda passed on to my generation as well. Mom took showers with us girls for the first few years, then we girls took baths together. LOL not saying it was only 5" of water, but we still had to share our baths until we got to about age... 9? 10? Anyway, even when we were kids, we never swam nude... not together, not with anyone else. Not even "just topless". But even our guy friends never did. One sister and I are mid-late thirties. Our guy friends are the same age group. My husband is on the edge of that "cut off" age you mentioned. And he never did either. So I can't say it's an age thing, really. I think it's more in how each family has raised their children.

For about 4 years, we shared a bedroom with our children. That's not just one child at a time...that's all three of them. So, the personal space idea doesn't always apply either. As I said, I think it's more about how the parents raise their children, rather than the ages. For instance, I breastfed all three of my kids. I have shown my son that it isn't something to be ashamed of, and that if he sees a woman doing it, to not shame her in any way. At the same time, I also have expressed my displeasure (as has his dad) at women who parade around in virtually nothing, purely to get attention. Anyway, that's just my opinion on the subject.
My father was very cheap, 5" of water was the max, less if you used hot water. Hot water cost money. He even would limit the amount of sheets of toilet paper. He never made much back in those days a civil servant but we always had food on the table and a roof over our head.

You make another good point, I recall my wife breast feed my sons and on more than one time it was done in public like the park. She would just drape a small towel or blanket over her shoulder. No one use to say a thing, no one use to care, it was natural. My daughter in law a couple years back was doing the same thing and two people said something and she was asked to leave the park. That is nuts.

My sons were telling me over Christmas that some of this started in the late 70s where we lived. Showers after gym were no longer required. They were use to taking showers and it was kind of expected so the boys did not smell in class. They told me most kids stopped but they kept on taking showers as did a handful of other boys. But my oldest grandson told me no one takes showers in school any more. Maybe gym is not the same as when I was in school but I and the other boys would seat a lot and I can not imagine just putting on extra after shave lotion and getting dressed to go to class. That is what I was told most kids now do.

I know I was a little apprehensive when I first had to take showers in Jr High but having taken public showers at the pool with my Dad and brother I soon got over the concern. A few kids would horse play and pick on other kids but it was not a big issue. It did allow me default to see other young men my age without clothing. I never thought much about it, other than I could see we all had a package and we all developed at different rates. I was late to puberty and worried about it, but saw that a few other guys were also late which made me feel normal.

My daughter-in-law was talking about this with us at Christmas and mentioned a study on increase steroid use. The article liked it to changes young men felt that had to do to be normal, which in this case was look like a guy in a media advertizement. Which I know is not the normal for how people look. The increased modesty seems to be increasing the misconception of what a normal body looks like, how else would a young person know these days.

In the prior thread I explained how our family always went camping and public showers were the norm. Now with my grandsons they were not sure if it was okay. There Father's my sons explained to them as I did to my sons as my Father told me, it is okay it is normal. You take your cloths off, take a shower using soap and then dry off and get dressed again. There is nothing wrong with doing that in a public shower. But now that is not normal, that concerns me.

I do not like looking at other guys naked, but frankly I do not care either way. I go to the Y, work out, hit the sauna, then shower and dry off. If there are other guys around to me there are just there doing what men do. What brought the topic up at dinner during Christmas was a young man a few lockers up from me that did some sort of kabuki dance under a towel to get undressed and dressed in the locker room. It drew more attention than if he just did what use to be normal.

There can be a happy medium between the modesty of Northern Europe and Americans. Only getting input about what people look like strictly from media sources is not healthy.
 

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Originally posted by Wysh:
Our first place only had a bath. I used to have to sneak up to the bathroom because as soon as my son and daughter discovered I was having a bath they would immediately strip off and jump in with me. Bath time with dad seemed to be fun time.
I have bathed with my grandsons but not with my step granddaughter as that did not seem right.

Is that my hangup or proper prudence do you think?
As she's your 'step', I think it's proper prudence. In this day and age, accusations fly thick and fast!

I'm glad you posted that because I was almost afraid to put that my daughter would occasionally take a bubble bath with her dad. She liked to put beards and bubble hats, etc on him.

We all used to swim together nude in our pool. We lived in the country and you couldn't see our pool (without trespassing). She was maybe 3-4 years old. We just treated it like 'no big deal' and that's how she treated it, too. We did ALMOST get caught one time....heard a strange noise, grabbed everyone's suits and threw it to them so we could get out of the pool and investigate. It was a hot-air balloon that soon flew right overhead (they would have had an eyeful!) so close that we could converse with them in a normal tone of voice. (the noise was the propane heater being turned on/off to heat the air)


BTW: I'm 56yo, STBXH is 64yo, and daughter is 15yo.
 

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As she's your 'step', I think it's proper prudence. In this day and age, accusations fly thick and fast!

I'm glad you posted that because I was almost afraid to put that my daughter would occasionally take a bubble bath with her dad. She liked to put beards and bubble hats, etc on him.

We all used to swim together nude in our pool. We lived in the country and you couldn't see our pool (without trespassing). She was maybe 3-4 years old. We just treated it like 'no big deal' and that's how she treated it, too. We did ALMOST get caught one time....heard a strange noise, grabbed everyone's suits and threw it to them so we could get out of the pool and investigate. It was a hot-air balloon that soon flew right overhead (they would have had an eyeful!) so close that we could converse with them in a normal tone of voice. (the noise was the propane heater being turned on/off to heat the air)


BTW: I'm 56yo, STBXH is 64yo, and daughter is 15yo.
I am 58 and when I was in HS you had to take a shower after gym class. The gym teacher was the health teacher and it was explained that is was good hygiene. My parents were not modest at home but they were not exhibitionists either. I recall bathes with my Dad and brother.

I think the young people are far more modest today than when I was in school. I know my sons age 20 and 22 have not been in a public shower since age 9 or 10 when on vacations. Neither played sports but their friends did and they showered after practice. Now most schools have private stalls.

Young men today view taking a public shower as in some way being gay. There are a lot of homophobic people. I am comfortable with my sexuality so being around other men in a locker room does not bother me. In general I see more guys under age 40 have seldom showered with other guys unless they played sports or served in the military. Taking a public shower and being clean is now seen as being gay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
My father in law grew up in the Boy Scouts skinny dipping, but now the rules strictly forbid it for any Boy Scout swimming.

My youngest son is 10. For years my wife has gone into the bathroom while he showered to help him wash his hair (because he did such a bad job of it). About 2 weeks ago she went to help him and discovered the bathroom door locked. lol I guess he's found his modesty!
I think that is kind of normal for a boy his age. He is likely starting puberty and boys become more modest around parents at that time. Moms in particular. Plus there hormones are starting to change. My sons as I recall got a bit modest around that age. They lost it in a couple years or less after puberty was complete.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
As she's your 'step', I think it's proper prudence. In this day and age, accusations fly thick and fast!

I'm glad you posted that because I was almost afraid to put that my daughter would occasionally take a bubble bath with her dad. She liked to put beards and bubble hats, etc on him.

We all used to swim together nude in our pool. We lived in the country and you couldn't see our pool (without trespassing). She was maybe 3-4 years old. We just treated it like 'no big deal' and that's how she treated it, too. We did ALMOST get caught one time....heard a strange noise, grabbed everyone's suits and threw it to them so we could get out of the pool and investigate. It was a hot-air balloon that soon flew right overhead (they would have had an eyeful!) so close that we could converse with them in a normal tone of voice. (the noise was the propane heater being turned on/off to heat the air)


BTW: I'm 56yo, STBXH is 64yo, and daughter is 15yo.
Our house where the kids grew up is like your in the country and if you could see the pool you were trespassing. My sons often skinny dipped as did my wife and I late at night when our sons were in bed. We just made sure the pool lights were off.

Please do not get me wrong mix couples skinny dipping in my teens and 20s was not common. The lake and streams where I grew up were very secluded. But when we did do it it was not a big deal. 4 of the people ended up getting married to each other.

Some modesty is a good thing, but I think in general the pendulum has swung a little to far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Our first place only had a bath. I used to have to sneak up to the bathroom because as soon as my son and daughter discovered I was having a bath they would immediately strip off and jump in with me. Bath time with dad seemed to be fun time.
I have bathed with my grandsons but not with my step granddaughter as that did not seem right.

Is that my hangup or proper prudence do you think?
It would see to be proper prudence in today's world. My sons often would jump in with me but not their mother. We had a 2 head shower in the basement and mom would use the upstairs bathroom while the men got ready down stairs if we were in a hurry.
 
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