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Discussion starter · #101 ·
What difference does it make at this point? Seriously? She tells you everything you want to hear...you are 100 percent right about her...then what? All the hurt goes away and everything is sunshine and roses? What is the end game for you?
The difference is that the Foundation of Trust cannot be rebuilt until the truth is told. Right now it's in shambles. The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why. Whether or not I will be accepting (probably not) only then can any type of rebuilding take place.
 
The difference is that the Foundation of Trust cannot be rebuilt until the truth is told. Right now it's in shambles. The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why. Whether or not I will be accepting (probably not) only then can any type of rebuilding take place.
Well I am here to tell you from experience that will just not happen. There will never be a reason why that will be acceptable to you. Never. She also will never tell the truth. They just don’t. If you want to move forward know those 2 things and work from there.
 
Having 32 within 9 years is mind-blowing to me, and it demonstrates the much greater access to sex that women have --and take advantage of.
I have always had a lot of guy friends because A) I lived in a neighborhood that was mostly boys B) my dad worked construction and our relatives were bikers, so I had a plethora of "uncles" who doted on me and taught me stuff and C) most of my passions are typically male pursuits. The vast majority of my guy friends I'd known since Jr High, High School, or met just after turning 18 and a LOT of them had verifiable numbers that blow mine out of the water.

I think we all just assumed that the partiers were there to party regardless of gender and the fella's (rightly) figured the ladies were there for the same reason they were. To laugh, talk, dance, be social, get a buzz, and get laid. So they went with "fortune favors the bold" and were bold.

I only knew about some of this stuff before marriage, and was quite frankly afraid to ask about the rest.
Sometimes it's best to just accept you know enough and don't need to know more.

I felt disappointed and depressed --part of me says I deserved better. I feel a bit humiliated and have a sense of FOMO
Deserved better than what? You seem to be happily married to a good woman. What better is there than that!?!? If I were a man I would prefer a partner who had been around the block a few times and had enough experience to know what they really want and what they really need vs what they thought they wanted and needed. I also think some sexual adventures are best had before getting into a serious relationship.

Humiliated why?

FOMO is a path that leads to ruin. You can't change the past and you can't have those experiences now because that stage of life has come and gone. At best, you could go out and have casual sex, but it wouldn't be the same as it would have been back then.

I was trying to be the good guy, treat women right, have LTRs, etc., while everyone else was piping down girls left and right with no intention of relationships.
So you never considered many of those women were out looking to enjoy some charming no strings male companionship and you were operating under the misapprehension that women don't have the same desire for sexual adventures men do.

One guy on the web says "there are no good girls. There are just girls who haven't been caught".
I just can't get this kind of thinking. "Good girls". What's a "good girl" and how does this in any way relate to her sexual history? Hint: It doesn't. There is nothing "bad" or "wrong" or "flawed" about a woman who enjoys her sexuality. A woman's body count isn't nearly the cause for concern that her, say, lying or being selfish and manipulative and/or lazy would be.

it is part of the reason I have a very jaded and black-pilled opinion of relationships in our current culture
I also don't understand this. Casual sex and "hook-up" culture isn't anything new. I'm in my mid-40's and hooking up for a night or few was definitely a common thing when I was young. My mom had some stories about her time out on the prowl with her friends in the late 60's and into the 70's. Hell, my exFIL and exMIL met in the early 70's because MIL and her buddies jumped in a car to take a trip to the coast specifically to spend a week getting laid.
 
The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why.
You know why. She did it for the same reasons everyone else does. She was young, single, horny, and wanted to get laid.

Well I am here to tell you from experience that will just not happen. There will never be a reason why that will be acceptable to you. Never.
Yes, this.

Trustless, you aren't the kind of person who has casual sex, seem to disapprove of casual sex, and I don't think anything she says will ever help you.
 
I'm not unsympathetic to your view. I personally would not prefer a guy with a promiscuous past, though I would consider it if I otherwise liked him and was convinced he was not that person anymore. And it would absolutely have to be behind him.....I'm very jaded from the fact that my ex talked about old gf's regularly in wildly inappropriate ways. I often felt like one in a long line and that he wasn't fully present with me.

I completely understand the lying part and I would have a problem with that too. You form a certain image of your partner and when you find out that image is wrong it can really flip you upside down. ....particularly when they flat out lie.

But at this point you have to think carefully about what you end goal is. You already know she's lying so the way I see it here are your options:

1. Let it go and make peace with it.
2. If you just want to form a more accurate image of her and want truth you'll have to create a safe place for her to do that. I know it sounds like I'm putting this all on you but realistically she has no incentive to come clean. She might though if it was phrased in a way that conveyed that you want truth and to understand her better.
3. Divorce her if you can't make peace with it

Where would you lean?

I don't want to get too much into my own story but my ex kept an ex gf on the side our entire 13 year relationship. I only had concrete proof of some level of emotional affair but given that he lied about absolutely everything and changed his story multiple times I assume there's a lot more to it. He also dropped that his first thought when confronted was OMG what does she know.

At a certain point I accepted that he'd never come clean because there was no incentive for him. I divorced him for a number of reasons beyond that but I understood that if I remained with him I'd probably never get the truth. Possibly if I assured him I wasn't going anywhere, but that would've been a lie and he was too image conscious and conflict avoidant to admit what he didn't have to. And he wasn't a good hb.

So where do you lean?
 
I have always had a lot of guy friends because A) I lived in a neighborhood that was mostly boys B) my dad worked construction and our relatives were bikers, so I had a plethora of "uncles" who doted on me and taught me stuff and C) most of my passions are typically male pursuits. The vast majority of my guy friends I'd known since Jr High, High School, or met just after turning 18 and a LOT of them had verifiable numbers that blow mine out of the water.

I think we all just assumed that the partiers were there to party regardless of gender and the fella's (rightly) figured the ladies were there for the same reason they were. To laugh, talk, dance, be social, get a buzz, and get laid. So they went with "fortune favors the bold" and were bold.



Sometimes it's best to just accept you know enough and don't need to know more.



Deserved better than what? You seem to be happily married to a good woman. What better is there than that!?!? If I were a man I would prefer a partner who had been around the block a few times and had enough experience to know what they really want and what they really need vs what they thought they wanted and needed. I also think some sexual adventures are best had before getting into a serious relationship.

Humiliated why?

FOMO is a path that leads to ruin. You can't change the past and you can't have those experiences now because that stage of life has come and gone. At best, you could go out and have casual sex, but it wouldn't be the same as it would have been back then.



So you never considered many of those women were out looking to enjoy some charming no strings male companionship and you were operating under the misapprehension that women don't have the same desire for sexual adventures men do.



I just can't get this kind of thinking. "Good girls". What's a "good girl" and how does this in any way relate to her sexual history? Hint: It doesn't. There is nothing "bad" or "wrong" or "flawed" about a woman who enjoys her sexuality. A woman's body count isn't nearly the cause for concern that her, say, lying or being selfish and manipulative and/or lazy would be.



I also don't understand this. Casual sex and "hook-up" culture isn't anything new. I'm in my mid-40's and hooking up for a night or few was definitely a common thing when I was young. My mom had some stories about her time out on the prowl with her friends in the late 60's and into the 70's. Hell, my exFIL and exMIL met in the early 70's because MIL and her buddies jumped in a car to take a trip to the coast specifically to spend a week getting laid.
I understand what you are saying, and I am not casting judgment

but ...

for people like me,companionship, connection, meaning, sex, authenticity, all that stuff goes together. I want real relationships that involve risk, not easy hookups that involve treating people like objects.

it isn't even because I am some romantic --I'm just a guy that doesn't like fake, shallow things.

and can a couple have a meaningful, yet very short encounter? Sure. It happens. But you and I know that is not how it normally plays out.

we all need to have hedonistic sexual adventures? Give me one girl who is sweet and the apple of my eye, and I will hand back every jaded sex goddess right back to you. I'd rather go out hiking in the woods with a girl I love than spend 20 nights banging porn stars or hotties from some nightclub.

but that is how I roll
 
for people like me,companionship, connection, meaning, sex, authenticity, all that stuff goes together. I want real relationships that involve risk, not easy hookups that involve treating people like objects.

it isn't even because I am some romantic --I'm just a guy that doesn't like fake, shallow things.
Say you were really into tennis. You go out to a festival or party and meet someone who is attractive, fun to talk to, and who likes tennis, too. They invite you to spend the afternoon playing tennis with them, so you accept. Why not? You enjoy this persons company, they seem like a good tennis player, and you both want to play. Does that sound somehow shallow to you? Fake? Not at all. It's just a couple of people who met, had a good vibe, and spent some time together enjoying each others company. Nothing inauthentic about it.

Say you have a work friend, female, you know is having a hard time. So you get her a Valentines Day card to cheer her up. You write a nice message inside saying something kind and encouraging, maybe remind her she's a great person and is appreciated, yadda yadda.

You then get another Valentines Day card for your SO. You also write a message inside. That message is romantic, talks of loving feelings, etc. etc.

They are both Valentines Day cards, but the meaning behind them is very different. That's casual sex vs sex in a relationship. The act may be the same, but the meaning changes.

we all need to have hedonistic sexual adventures? Give me one girl who is sweet and the apple of my eye, and I will hand back every jaded sex goddess right back to you. I'd rather go out hiking in the woods with a girl I love than spend 20 nights banging porn stars or hotties from some nightclub.
You act like it's a choice between the two. I, personally, went the route of having hedonistic adventures while seeking my "the one".

Hedonistic adventure and a nice girl to walk through the wilderness with aren't mutually exclusive. Trust me, one can absolutely have both. I know a number of very sweet and amazing women who had fun catting around before they found their life partners.
 
The difference is that the Foundation of Trust cannot be rebuilt until the truth is told. Right now it's in shambles. The end game is I need to know the truth and then I need to understand why. Whether or not I will be accepting (probably not) only then can any type of rebuilding take place.
Because someone very close to me is bipolar, I did a lot of research on it. Manic states often lead to promiscuity, reckless spending, etc. It's a common condition of the disorder. So this behavior tracks.

She will need to get this under control to have a healthy marriage. Vraylar worked wonders for my person.

The lying is obviously a big concern. She likely doesn't feel safe from the consequences of full truth. Because of this, she's reluctant to be honest about this. You'll have to "pretend" there are no consequences or at least ones she can live with....or you likely won't get full truth from her.
 
I'm very jaded from the fact that my ex talked about old gf's regularly in wildly inappropriate ways. I often felt like one in a long line and that he wasn't fully present with me.
When did you realize that your ex was an insecure, lying blowhard? He knew you were the best thing that ever happened to him - he just didn't want you to know.
 
Discussion starter · #111 ·
I finally had a chance to talk to my wife about what was so awful that night (and a lot of other stuff). She continues to say it's because he was there and he didn't want him there - that was what was so horrible. She told him no in bed and because he was persistent she thought she needed to give him a chance even though she just wanted him to leave. She slept naked with him all night but claims she kept hoping he would just leave her alone (they had sex 4 different times). And when he never called her back it's only then she felt she was used even though this has happened many times before to her so I don't get it. She claims she was going to counseling for 2 years prior to this to try and understand why she was letting guys use her YET she let it happen again and said nothing to her counselor. I find this hard to believe.

I just don't know what to think. Just doesn't make any sense. She also mentioned she thought I was banging some chick and somehow that got into the equation of whether to have sex with him or not. That statement right there doesn't add up because she also said she wasn't thinking at all about having sex with him so exactly when did this thought come into play? At the end of the day she wants me to believe she was beyond shattered when I left, didn't want to be alone, was naïve, low self-esteem, no boundaries and was full of people pleasing syndrome which led her to not want to hurt this guys feelings EVEN THOUGH she claims she didn't want him there and didn't want to be with him EVEN THOUGH she was considering dating him because he liked her.

Again - I don't understand it but perhaps someone here can make sense out of it. Other than that, I am just going to have to try and process everything she said and take one day at a time.
 
I finally had a chance to talk to my wife about what was so awful that night (and a lot of other stuff). She continues to say it's because he was there and he didn't want him there - that was what was so horrible. She told him no in bed and because he was persistent she thought she needed to give him a chance even though she just wanted him to leave. She slept naked with him all night but claims she kept hoping he would just leave her alone (they had sex 4 different times). And when he never called her back it's only then she felt she was used even though this has happened many times before to her so I don't get it. She claims she was going to counseling for 2 years prior to this to try and understand why she was letting guys use her YET she let it happen again and said nothing to her counselor. I find this hard to believe.

I just don't know what to think. Just doesn't make any sense. She also mentioned she thought I was banging some chick and somehow that got into the equation of whether to have sex with him or not. That statement right there doesn't add up because she also said she wasn't thinking at all about having sex with him so exactly when did this thought come into play? At the end of the day she wants me to believe she was beyond shattered when I left, didn't want to be alone, was naïve, low self-esteem, no boundaries and was full of people pleasing syndrome which led her to not want to hurt this guys feelings EVEN THOUGH she claims she didn't want him there and didn't want to be with him EVEN THOUGH she was considering dating him because he liked her.

Again - I don't understand it but perhaps someone here can make sense out of it. Other than that, I am just going to have to try and process everything she said and take one day at a time.
It makes perfect sense to me honestly. Did you ever answer how long you have been married?
 
Prior to getting married, I broke up with my then girlfriend after 2 years of dating. A week later, she went bar hopping with a guy she had just met through a friend. Supposedly nothing happened. Two weeks later, she has a one night stand with someone she met at a bar. They went back to her apartment, partied with her roommate and her boyfriend and then retired to the bedroom. They had sex 4 times that night, including oral, and concluded with a romp in the morning. She said she asked him to wear a condom but only found one in the morning and thinks the guy took it off shortly after having intercourse for the first time.

My problem is this. Before we got back together, I said I would only take her back if she had not been with any other guys during our 4 week breakup. She denied ever being with someone else and she sounded convincing to say the least. Did she have the right to have a ONS? Sure - we were not a couple. Do I think she disrespected me, our relationship and herself by not only having a ONS but having one so quickly AND so intimately as she did? Absolutely - no arguing that. Because she did this within weeks of our break up and then lied about it, it has always felt to me as if she cheated on me. Not to mention she put my health at risk for having unprotected sex with a stranger and I not knowing anything about it. She cared more about giving this guy herpes then her or myself catching anything he had.

I found out about all this after she slipped up in a lie about her past. Then a whole can of worms came out including this night. Originally she said she never wanted any of it, that the entire evening was horrible (the worst night of her life), that she didn't want to be around the guy, that unknowingly he followed her home after the bar, somehow knew which apartment she lived in, somehow got through the security door, for some odd reason she said nothing when he came into the apartment (What are YOU doing here? How did you know where I lived? Nothing), that she told him NO in bed and that she felt like she was raped even though she "gave in". I never believed this story for a second because it had more holes in it than swiss cheese. Nothing she did that entire night fit with what she was "thinking and feeling". She had plenty of opportunities to ditch this guy yet she did nothing. Actions speak louder than words.

After denying that she was never looking to date anyone (you don't meet guys out unless you are looking to date) I finally got her to admit that she was "considering" (not "looking" lol see who I am dealing with?) to date other men. I also got her to admit that she DID, on her own will, decide to give this guy a chance and that by sleeping with him was her way of feeling accepted by him. It's all starting to make sense now and it's all what I suspected. For the past year she made up this story that was suppose to make me feel sorry for her when in fact it's starting to look like it was just the opposite. I believe she was a full participant of everything that happened that night and all this baloney about it being the worst night of her life is just a decoy. FYI she has yet to explain what was so horrible that night even though I have asked her many times.

This isn't the first thing she has lied to me about and I just think I made a mistake marrying this woman. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. She, in a sense, decided for me who I marry since she lied to me about everything I was looking for a woman. I know women often lie about their past but it doesn't make it right. I have given her plenty of chances to come clean but she is still fighting it.

Is this woman marriage material and take the chance she can change? Or do I find someone who I can trust?
She is not trust worthy. She is definately not marriage material, more like cheater material with that ability to lie. Jump in bed for sex romp a week after a 2 yr relationship. She was not very into you to get over you that quick.

Who broke up with who? Why?
 
You form a certain image of your partner and when you find out that image is wrong it can really flip you upside down. ...
This Really! Dealing with my wifes suspicious mind as result of her 1st marriage to cheating hubby, one day she was on my ass and was projecting her exes behavior onto me. She stated as a threat, "After my divorce i went hog wild"

I just went numb. I thought this woman i prized
1. just told me she was acting like a whor3.
2. We were together 2 months before her divorce was final.....so that means she had sex with others while we were together.

I had a thought of what i saw my wife as. Married at 16 to HS sweethart. Divorced him 10 yrs later. We met 2 months before divorce final(during Tx waiting period). So in my mind she had 1 partner i knew of(ex) and possibly 1-2 more depending on when she first started having sex.

Now being told she went hog wild....that hurt.
I was thinking the woman i married was not what i thought she was. I could not talk. She asked if i wanted her to take me back to my car and i could just nod. She spent the rest of day looking fir appartment thinking i was going to want her to leave. She said the look on my face and reaction made her feel like she had cheated on me.

Lated clarification of hog wild after divorce...
She had 2 ONS out of anger at ex and in her mind her marriage was over when she found the continued cheating and left him. Not after divorce was finalized. She stated she cried after both times. So now i had to reconcile her number in my mind and adjust it up by 2. That was much better than "Hog Wild" and those ONS did not happen while we were together.

So i had a blue eyed, brunette hottie with a known partner count of 3, 1st an ex hubby. But the package had damage from the 1st serial cheating hubby. Took 15yrs for me to repair that damage, but she is worth it.
 
So, why did you marry her despite all those waving red flags? Perhaps you are fascinated with drama in your life? Or, you want to fix her? I agree with the majority of opinions here that she is not a marriage material and she can't be trusted to be faithful with her marriage vow. But those are moot point now that you already married her. Now, you should talk to her heart to heart and tell her that you expect her to be faithful with her marriage vow. Make it very clear to her that cheating is not acceptable and it will definitely (emphasize definitely) break up the marriage. Now, if I were in your shoe, I will not rush into getting her pregnant for at least two years to see if she becomes mature enough to raise children. That way, divorce would be easier if she still acts 5hitty. Good luck and hopefully you won't be coming back here asking for advice on infidelity and divorce.
 
OK, this is going to turn into one of those "my wife lied 40 years ago and I can't get over it. Boo-hoo, woe is me" threads. Next.
This isn't even close to that. No, this is about keeping that from happening. The weird thing in this case is that both parties know they're at odds with the other; there's no longer anything hidden. Both parties recognize, early on, the incompatibilities. So why not move on?
 
Discussion starter · #119 ·
A couple days ago I asked my wife if she would take a polygraph test. I told her it would only be a few questions, questions that I have already asked her and it would be just a few minute test. I said in exchange, if she passed the test, I would be willing to bury everything and start afresh. Her response was she was upset, that it would take her a long time to forgive me for this "degrading" test but she agreed to take it.

I think I have the questions figured out - simple yes/no questions about things I do not believe happened and of course I would work with the tester in wording these questions. I will not tell her the questions before hand so she can think long and hard about anything she may be lying about hoping if she decided to come clean I may not have to schedule this test at all.

Today she sent me a text about something and at the bottom it said "And we need to talk again." I can't tell you how rare and unexpected this simple text was. I'm quite anxious about what it is she wants to talk about - actually scarily anxious. Could it be she will admit something she has been lying about after thinking about having to take this polygraph? If it is, I can only hope it's not something big - like having sex with this person and that person. That would crush me. Yet if it was about something small it could lead to bigger lies and snowball - also crushing me. Maybe she just changed her mind about taking the test.

I will soon fine out.
 
A couple days ago I asked my wife if she would take a polygraph test. I told her it would only be a few questions, questions that I have already asked her and it would be just a few minute test. I said in exchange, if she passed the test, I would be willing to bury everything and start afresh. Her response was she was upset, that it would take her a long time to forgive me for this "degrading" test but she agreed to take it.

I think I have the questions figured out - simple yes/no questions about things I do not believe happened and of course I would work with the tester in wording these questions. I will not tell her the questions before hand so she can think long and hard about anything she may be lying about hoping if she decided to come clean I may not have to schedule this test at all.

Today she sent me a text about something and at the bottom it said "And we need to talk again." I can't tell you how rare and unexpected this simple text was. I'm quite anxious about what it is she wants to talk about - actually scarily anxious. Could it be she will admit something she has been lying about after thinking about having to take this polygraph? If it is, I can only hope it's not something big - like having sex with this person and that person. That would crush me. Yet if it was about something small it could lead to bigger lies and snowball - also crushing me. Maybe she just changed her mind about taking the test.

I will soon fine out.
Oh boy. Well you should be prepared for the worst here and don’t assume you’re going to get the full truth if she does confess anything.

Let me ask you, what are you going to do if she has betrayed you again? You need to have a plan.
 
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