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Cold,
I agree her reaction was odd. And not kind. And hurtful. I also believe that for your marriage to grow the two of you have to be able to disappoint each other, and upset each other without the "injured party" going immediately to "is the marriage over"?

That question is incredibly aggressive.

Why not a kinder, gentler approach.

>>>>>>>>>>>
I missed you, I really enjoy being with you as a friend and as my wife. And while I was away I got the impression that you felt the same way.

It is ok for you to be upset with me. When you are, I need you to tell me and also tell me why. It is very painful to me to walk in the door after a 2 week absence, fully expecting a very warm welcome, and get instead a very cool vibe.

And that vibe was cool in and out of the bedroom.

I re-read your texts and they were loving and flirty.

Did I do/say something during the last days of my trip that upset or turned you off?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Cold,
If you do this, one of two things will happen:
1. She will point out something that is really, really obvious that you did near the VERY END of the trip and you will immediately see it and realize "ooops - yes I really screwed up"
2. She is going to invent an answer that makes no sense to you.

If (2) happens it will be because she is trying to conceal a lack of desire to have sex. You can approach that with hurt, anger, rejection and some level of questioning the marriage (which will come across as a type of threat).

OR you can take a completely different approach, and pick a quiet time when you know you will not be interrupted, maybe get her to have 1-2 drinks so she is relaxed. But this has to be a discussion, it can't be in writing - that just won't work".

Super soft tone of voice here. Gentle is the order of the day. The hours before this conversation have to be without conflict. She needs to start out relaxed and ideally stay relaxed.

Babe,
I have this friend who is in a tough spot. He asked me for some advice but hey, what do I know, so I figured I would ask the smartest person in my life for their input and so here I am.

There is a bit of background needed first, and then I will ask you the question, that needs to be answered.

This friend really loves his wife and he is pretty sure she loves him too. He and she are however tip toeing around each other a bit. She has a frightening secret, except it really isn't a secret any more. Because he knows her secret. He knows what is happening, but not why.

He accepts responsibility for the situation. Many years ago he made a choice to protect his ego at all costs. So when things got off track, instead of asking "What can I do to make things better, he pretended everything was ok". But now he is grown up, and is willing to trade some self esteem in order to help the two of them build a better marriage.

Her secret is simple. She hasn't liked having sex with him for a long time. Maybe from the very, very beginning.

He gets that now. He accepts that she doesn't really like it. He does however plan to ask her a multi-part question and this is where your advice is needed.

The question:
1. Babe, a long time ago I must have realized that you didn't really like having sex with me. I am sure I did a good job of letting you know I was unhappy about frequency. And just as sure that I chose to put my ego first and not ask why you didn't like it, and what I could do to make it better. Are you angry/resentful that I didn't ask you why you disliked being intimate with me?
2. Even though I should have asked many years ago, I am asking now. Will you teach me how to get you in the mood when you start out not feeling desire?
3. Do you understand that nothing you can say is going to hurt me all that much, since I already know you do not like it. Do you trust me to absorb the truth and make a sincere effort to try to improve so that our time together is something you enjoy not something you dread?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is where you stop and ask for "feedback" for your friend. Is that the right set of questions? If not, what are the right questions?

This is where she will give you a sense of whether or not she thinks it can be improved. And whether or not she is willing to answer those questions.

If she won't answer the questions, that means she believes there is some "core/bedrock" attraction stuff that cannot be fixed. And I think you can run that to ground if you wish by making that observation: My FRIEND and I believe that if it is core stuff that cannot be fixed, his W will avoid the conversation at all costs. But he isn't ok with that. Because the guy who really didn't even WANT to know, is no longer ok being in a situation where his W won't tell him why. He now NEEDS to know why.


Honey Bunny,
I'm at a loss as to how to proceed. I know that you have said that you're mine and that you want to grow old with me, but your body language when I am actually around says something different. I am getting the vibe that you are having to endure my pressence and that you really aren't sure about your feelings toward me.

I still feel like I am in limbo and that I am an outsider visiting my own house. You seem to be taking everything that I do or say as an attack on you or that I have some hidden meaning behind my words/actions, but all I want to do is spend time with you and rekindle the flame that was once there. Do you think this is possible, or am I expecting too much too soon? From the text conversations and the phone conversations I was expecting a warmer welcome, but you seem distant. All I want is for you to be happy and if your happiness means us separating, then that is what we should do. I don't want to be forcing myself on you, or have you feel obligated to let me have sex. I feel bad for focussing so much on the sex aspect, but I love you and haven't seen you for two weeks so I want to be with you and touch you as much as possible. Maybe this is smothering you and you feel like I'm being clingy, but I just feel like you are slipping away from me and I don't know how to stop it.

You said that the two weeks has flown by for you and that it isn't so bad, you have surprised yourself as to how well you have coped with being alone. Does this mean that you are now ready for me to be gone? Is this how I made you feel for the last couple of years? It just makes me feel sick to think this is how you have been feeling...

Bottom line is that you said that you weren't happy, and weren't sure about how you felt about me anymore. Yes, I know that was over a month ago and things have changed, but have they? Are you happy, or happier now? I'm scared out of my mind and I don't want to say the wrong things to you, but I also don't want to not communicate. (I get flustered when we talk directly, so unfortunately I need to write it down...) I just feel like you aren't really attracted to me anylonger and that you don't really know how to tell me, or where you want to go from here. I know you are worried about how this will affect our kids, but either way, if you are not happy they will feel that too.

I really want to make this work, even if it takes me courting and winning your heart back...but I don't want to waste either of our time if you don't feel any spark. Please think about this before answering. I don't want any resentment or feeling that you sacrificed your happiness for the good of our family. That's not something I want to find out later in life. You are the best thing that has happened to me and I'm sorry it took THIS for me to realize how I truly feel about you. I can't stand the thought of losing you, but it would be worse to find out that you were not happy for any longer than you already have been.

I love you and I'm sure I always will, no matter how this comes out. But if you have felt unloved for the last few years as you have stated, I will understand if you don't want to continue.

Love always, Coldshoulder.


I wrote this letter earlier today with the thoughts of giving it to my wife...but she showed some genuine (or at least perceived genuine) affection this evening...I'm not quite sure where we stand. I thought all was going quite well, but when I returned from my shift away, she was distant and not that affectionate...I thought, the way she was responding to my text messages and phone calls that she was ready to "jump my bonz", but in reality I had to talk her into a quicky...which I found somewhat hurtful...I've been out of the house for two weeks, wouldn't you think that you would feel the urge to be sexual when the lights went out? I was a little put out. Maybe I'm being a little sensitive and should grow a pair, but I really thought I was in for a night of aerobic sex, and I got the carousel ride.

I was expecting some fireworks and thrills, but instead got the "well I guess, if I have to..."

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the action...but I was hoping to have my hair blown back...

Have I moved on and don't know it? or am I missing something?

Later.
 

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T2,
After 3 years of totally ignoring your needs, your W now knows with utter certainty that you have no boundaries.

Of course, since you have repeatedly given her "firm dates" to shape up, and then they pass with no consequence, you have made that message even stronger.



Liaten up from a guy at the end of this process...

DON'T SEND THAT WEAK LETTER! Quit calling her honey bunny she certainly isn't right now...quit looking pathetic.

ONE simple straight forward apology for anything you did then STOP!

Here's what you do...shut up... become a better man and suck it up.

Then later you bring it up ONCE per year sort of an "anniversary" event of the disconnect.

Year one...YOUR NEEDS tell her what you need in excruciating details...

Year Two... Done helping to trying changing your mind, you are on your own to figure things out..I'm done. Its up to you to figure your own self out and what you are willing to do for our marriage...I'm done!

Year Three.... Single e-mail stating I left you on your own to figure out what it was that was your issue with xyz, we need to move forward and you are holding this marriage back.

There will be no year four because you will have fixed your marriage.


You have to let time take its course...there is no quick fix.
I will not endure a year 4.... my wife and I will be having lots of sex for the rest of our lives because I backed off changed and improved myself while she processed it all.

This is the method that is working for me.

Yes it's hard (virtually no sex at all...in fact up to 10 months without) but look at it as a three year prison sentence for rewards for life. It works because he further you get from the events/past/disconnect the better and you have a chance to tell her exactly what the terms of a happy marriage will be.... she needs time and space to process all of it.

Women's minds do not switch on a dime... you have to understand that. Yo have to put in the time so she sees that you changed and its not a mirage...the law of reciprocity will kick in

Just learn to admire all the other stuff she does in he meantime.... Return to normal is paramount....normal but better. Just act like nothing is wrong...move on and wait for her to catch up years later.
 

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Personally, I think the sentiments you wrote are beautifully expressed. The timing would be the delicate thing to avoid offering 'wimpy' perception opportunity
 

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I agree. This was a disrespectful tone for a simple message.

She had plenty of nice ways to do this such as: "Sometimes I like to have some "me" time when I watch my shows, is that ok"?

But here is what I don't get. In our house, "Don't stay up to late" just means get in bed in time to get a semi-decent nights sleep. There is zero expectation that she will be awake when I get to bed.

But maybe in Cold's house, "Don't stay up to late" means, come spend some time with me before I go to sleep.

As for "cuddling" I have a simple rule. We can "just" cuddle. Or she can flirt and little and then we tangle the sheets after a bit. There is no "flirting sans follow through" because that is TEASING. And TEASING is a non starter in the House of MEM.

I also think it is fair for Cold to respond to "don't stay up to late" with "Darling, hang the white towel on the door knob" if you wish a G rated experience tonight. That way I will know whether or not to unleash the beast on entry....



Forty-one, 25 pound weight loss, menopause, change of life, hormones changing. Be a wise man and spy on your wife. There’s something going in your wife’s life that she’s not telling you but may well be telling others. What with being a way for so long if I were you I’d set-up a sim based system that I can both record from and dial into and listen in on. Or put a couple of VARs in your home. Take it from me your wife is at a very dodgy time of life.



Your wife seems to me to be very controlling vis “"we don't need to spend every minute together, you do your thing & I'll watch my shows...". That alone would have bought the bad boy out of me. That sort of controlling stuff never did happen with my wife, but if it had of done I’d have teased her and put her over my knee for a play spanking. Do you always respond to your wife’s commands in such sheepish and mild ways? It sounds as though she were speaking to one of her children!

At the very least I’d have been out down the pub and quite possibly stayed out that night in a hotel or friends place. I’d simply stop that controlling stuff right in its tracks. My home, I’m the King of the Castle.


Put an immediate stop to all the lovey dovey stuff. Your wife is demonstrating a serious lack of respect for you and a lack of appreciation and you need to win that back. You don’t win it back by responding like a sheep to her commands and being lovey dovey.



Start behaving in unpredictable ways. Just get home late one night. Book a night out with a mate and stay out that night, just txt your wife you’ll see her tomorrow night. Get yourself new clothes and change your dress style. Always look as though you are going out on a date even when relaxing on the couch. Your wife is playing you and you need to take the ball and play your own game.
 

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I left out a bit of info...I've gotten in much better shape in the last 16 months, I have dropped 65lbs myself. Her friends are commenting, so that is also playing into this...

I don't believe there is anyone else...but I can't lie, it has crossed my mind...so it isn't impossible. We have been together since she was 21, so I'm not her only partner...in fact she had a few before choosing me.

I think some of this is from all the positive response that I received when I lost the first 30lbs...many women commented, and some were with my wife standing there. I was gracious and kinda shrugged it off, but I think it made her feel insecure. She did comment a couple of times that she thought I was "done with her..." and that's where that comment came from in the letter. I think my relationship is stronger than I realize, but the talk rattled my confidence.

We talk every night and text pretty regular throughout the evening...even exchanging some sexy pics...

Today when she came home from work, she was really in the mood...good thing all the kids were at swim practice...

I do think it is a bit of a mid-life crisis, but it's more of a "I need to spice things up" than "I want someone else"...only time will tell. I think she is just wanting me to be less predictable...so I am working on that as well.

Later.
You may want to look into denial because it sure sounds like you’re in it.


After 20 years you will have become institutionalised. For example it seems you cannot see how controlling your wife is and how mild and sheepish your responses are. So yes you need to become less predictable and in that way more exciting, stimulating. A lamb doesn’t do it.
 

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I agree. This was a disrespectful tone for a simple message.

She had plenty of nice ways to do this such as: "Sometimes I like to have some "me" time when I watch my shows, is that ok"?

But here is what I don't get. In our house, "Don't stay up to late" just means get in bed in time to get a semi-decent nights sleep. There is zero expectation that she will be awake when I get to bed.

But maybe in Cold's house, "Don't stay up to late" means, come spend some time with me before I go to sleep.

As for "cuddling" I have a simple rule. We can "just" cuddle. Or she can flirt and little and then we tangle the sheets after a bit. There is no "flirting sans follow through" because that is TEASING. And TEASING is a non starter in the House of MEM.

I also think it is fair for Cold to respond to "don't stay up to late" with "Darling, hang the white towel on the door knob" if you wish a G rated experience tonight. That way I will know whether or not to unleash the beast on entry....
Yes, "Don't stay up to late" has a direct meaning...she knows that I will be "taking matters into my own hands" and doesn't want me up until 2am...she doesn't sleep as soundly when I'm not in the bed next to her (feels more secure)

And yes, the cuddling is fine in our house too...same rule, if she wants it to be more she can let me know, but I don't have expectations going to bed for cuddle time.

As for me being a sheep, I know it. I've messed up quite a lot over the years and she has alway forgiven me (not infidelity, just being an idiot...drinking issues when I was younger and didn't know how to deal with stress...anger management issues, nothing physical, but verbal...), so yes I have become more sheepish and I don't want her to worry that the old a$$hole me is ever coming back.

I would have to write a friggin book for everyone to understand the full situation, but I don't think the issue is her cheating. If that were the case our relationship would have ended in '99 when I was really having stress/drinking/anger problems...

It seems to me that most of you have been burned by your spouse cheating, and for that I'm sorry...but my wife has put up with a lot of crap over the years and is still here with me, for that I have a lot of respect for her and believe that she has high integrity. We made an agreement years ago (we had a time when we both thought about ending the relationship) that if we were going to be with someone else, we would end this marriage first. That way, it keeps it more civil for the kids.

You may want to look into denial because it sure sounds like you’re in it.
You may be right, but I do need to proceed at my pace. I don't want to jump to the conclusion that there is someone else, because that would mean that I completely don't trust her. If there is no trust, it should be ended.

I enjoy getting the feedback in here because it comes from many different angles...some I can relate to, others not so much.

Thank you for the input...

Later.
 

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T2,
After 3 years of totally ignoring your needs, your W now knows with utter certainty that you have no boundaries.

Of course, since you have repeatedly given her "firm dates" to shape up, and then they pass with no consequence, you have made that message even stronger.
MEM...

I know you have been following my progress and have often questioned me on my method because it certainly is new and different from the typical advice. You have to remember I research the hell out of this topic. I saw a connection in the female mind I could utilize.

Its a process that I have fine tuned..... the good thing is I know with 100% certainty it will work and I will be having the best sex of my life for the rest of our lives. My case was extreme too... only 9 times sex in that entire sexless period (about 3 years)... up to 10 months without. We will increase our output to its highest level ever. Guaranteed.

I am at the end of this process and the final pieces have been put into action.

It does not involve a 180, it does not involve MMSL it is something completely new and different and bold. It s a complete mind re-engineering so that you can both be happy and return to better versions of yourselves at the end of the process. A win/win

I fully expect 2012 to be my very last sexless year AND will have completely changed my wife's mind over this whole issue..... I will fully disclose the method once I have verifiable results which I do believe will happen as early as tonight or tomorrow night. Actually i could have had sex with her last night but we both were tired and I took that into account. My wife is ready to move forward. So am I.

I will not hail victory until its evident it worked fully for us.

That's it I do believe it took me 2 yrs 10 months to finally switch the lightbulb in my wife's mind once and for all. The whole system is acting in stages.

Many men will benefit from my story. Its hard but can be done.
Ultimately a win/win. The best thing is I think the time frame can be shortened as I made
key mistakes along the way.... i believe that the process could be shortened to about half the time. Or roughly a year and a half process... if you avoid the mistakes I made along the way... but that is what happens when you are the first at something. I was absolutely committed to saving and bettering our marriage and to not waste his valuable opportunity t do so... look at everything as a new opportunity. I'm GLAD we went sexless...becuase I know I'll fully reap the reward for he rest of my life...Its a reboot of the marriage!
Version 2.0 we were beta testing it over the past three years.

I hope for all the sexless men... it works and adds to the possible solutions to a sexless marriage. What I like about my method is one does not have to change much and is organic. Allows you the man to remain normal mostly. But you have to fully commit to improving your marriage and making hard necessary changes and let time work.
 

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Super soft tone of voice here. Gentle is the order of the day. The hours before this conversation have to be without conflict. She needs to start out relaxed and ideally stay relaxed.

Babe,
I have this friend who is in a tough spot. He asked me for some advice but hey, what do I know, so I figured I would ask the smartest person in my life for their input and so here I am.

There is a bit of background needed first, and then I will ask you the question, that needs to be answered.

This friend really loves his wife and he is pretty sure she loves him too. He and she are however tip toeing around each other a bit. She has a frightening secret, except it really isn't a secret any more. Because he knows her secret. He knows what is happening, but not why.

He accepts responsibility for the situation. Many years ago he made a choice to protect his ego at all costs. So when things got off track, instead of asking "What can I do to make things better, he pretended everything was ok". But now he is grown up, and is willing to trade some self esteem in order to help the two of them build a better marriage.

Her secret is simple. She hasn't liked having sex with him for a long time. Maybe from the very, very beginning.

He gets that now. He accepts that she doesn't really like it. He does however plan to ask her a multi-part question and this is where your advice is needed.

The question:
1. Babe, a long time ago I must have realized that you didn't really like having sex with me. I am sure I did a good job of letting you know I was unhappy about frequency. And just as sure that I chose to put my ego first and not ask why you didn't like it, and what I could do to make it better. Are you angry/resentful that I didn't ask you why you disliked being intimate with me?
2. Even though I should have asked many years ago, I am asking now. Will you teach me how to get you in the mood when you start out not feeling desire?
3. Do you understand that nothing you can say is going to hurt me all that much, since I already know you do not like it. Do you trust me to absorb the truth and make a sincere effort to try to improve so that our time together is something you enjoy not something you dread?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is where you stop and ask for "feedback" for your friend. Is that the right set of questions? If not, what are the right questions?
Mem,

This is a great script. A very thoughtful way of approaching a sensitive issue
 

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Thanks Ten.

As for the "friend thing" it is optional. The only reason I suggested it is that it conveys the subtext that "this is hard stuff to talk about, I know that and am doing everything possible to make it easier for you".




Mem,

This is a great script. A very thoughtful way of approaching a sensitive issue
 
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