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After a heated exchange at the house, Ignored a text, and then responded to a 2nd text "need to know the kids are ok". I called, told her the kids were safe and sound but not OK, and when she started yelling, I hung up. She is taking 9-d to orthodontist first thing in morning, and I want to prevent an inquisition of my 9-d, so I have written the following letter to my ex "Shell" explaining what conversation I had this evening with the kids.

I don't know if this is tacky to share at this level, but I crave perspective and criticsm, and am not too proud to share. For background check my other posts.

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Letter to Ex:

So here is what has occurred this evening. Much of this happened in front of (18-d) so that she could see that I was not crossing any inappropriate lines. I will make sure that my perspective is clearly noted.

AFTER getting a call at 9:45 Sunday night from my sobbing 9 y/o and then a text from you saying “thanks for talking to her” and indicating it must be a broken CD or a new room or going back to school, I get to the house and ask how 9-d was feeling today, and she said better. I asked what had her so sad last night, and she said that OM was over and it made her miss me. I asked if OM was over with his kids, and she said no. I looked at 18-d and asked if OM was over last night without kids, and she said yes. I asked why, and she said that you had “had a really long day” and asked if he could come over and she had agreed. I told her that was an agreement between all three of us, and that was not acceptable. I immediately felt furious, but I did not want to make a scene in front of the kids, so I told them to go ahead and get their things together and we would head out for the evening. As they were getting their stuff together, you arrived.

My perspective - I had been there less than 15 minutes, and had just found out that you had gone specifically against a firm and clear agreement that you and I had, and now my 9 y/o daughter has told me that him being there made her miss me and led to a sobbing call the night before. How would YOU feel? I hope that explains why when you got to the house there was “a completely different person”.

Once I left the house, we went to Chick-Fil-A, and had dinner and played until we had to leave for scouts. AGAIN, in front of 18-d, I asked "So what has mom told you about OM?" 9-d responded that you have told her that he is a friend and you like hanging out with him. I said, so do you have fun when OM is there? She said no. She then explained (18-d even said this was the first she had heard 9-d explain her feelings) that she did not like it when OM comes over to the house without his kids because all he does is hang out with you and play with you and cuddle with you and you don’t spend time with them and when he is around it makes her feel like you don’t care about me anymore. I asked if she had told you that she doesn’t like OM at the house without his kids, and she said she had not. I asked why she hadn’t and she said that she didn’t think that you would make any other decision. I told her that you had already promised to 18-d and me that OM would NOT come over to the house without his kids. She said that she didn’t know that was the agreement. 8-s then piped up and said “well she certainly hasn’t been following that agreement”. I asked what he meant, and 9-d said that OM had been over a few times without his kids. I asked if it had been recently, and she said that he was at the house the day after they went to a friends for New Years Eve(Jan 1). 18-d was surprised to hear that, and said that she was gone most of the day and didn’t know that he had come over. I asked 9-d if she wanted OM over without his kids, and she said no. I asked 8-s, and he said no. I asked 18-d, and she said no. I told them that I would talk to you and find out why you were not following the agreement, and I would ask you again to follow that agreement, and they said OK. I clarified that they did not want him over without his kids, but with his kids is OK, and they said yes. I then told them that I don’t think that you don’t care about me, and in fact I believe that you still love me very much. I just think that you are confused as to who you want to be happy with. I said that I am trying very hard to work to be a better husband and father, but the decisions is an adult decision that we will have to figure out together. That seemed to calm them, and there was no additional conversation with them about OM. 9-d and 8-s went off to play and 18-d said there was something she needed to tell me about Wednesday night. I asked what, and she said that after your Wednesday outing, you had come home and pulled into the driveway with your lights off. She said when she looked out, OM was in the car. She said you popped your head in her room a little after midnight and told her that you needed to “take him home” and then were gone for an indeterminate amount of time (you texted me the next day that you were in bed by 3… sounds like a few hours). She said that she was VERY angry about that, and she let her 2 friends that were spending the night know exactly how she felt at that moment. When I asked her if she had talked to you, she said that she didn’t know how to talk to you because you have been avoiding each other, and she is so upset with your actions that she would only be able to scream all the angry and hurtful words that she feels, and words hurt for a long time, and she had done that to me before, and she didn’t want to do that to anyone else right now.

So, as things sit right now… OM was at the house without his kids 3 of the last 6 days (after-Wed payday party, Friday Wii playing, Sunday Wii Playing). In ALL of those 3 occasions, the fact that he was there has had significant negative impacts on one or all of the KIDS. 18-d can’t bear the thought of sharing anything with you at any depth. 9-d has no belief that you will make a different decision if she tells you she doesn’t like OM around. And it seems that every day that I’m not around, OM is, and every day that OM isn’t around, you want to do something with me (Thurs – your offer for NYE plans, Sat – Dinner and movie and snuggling, Today – our plans we had originally made for this evening, at your prompting). And on last Wednesday, you spent time with us both. By the way, this entire paragraph is my perspective.

I have not asked 18-d to review this for accuracy and full disclosure, but I would certainly invite you to if you think any of this conversation was fabricated, guided, or otherwise inappropriate.
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Comments?
 

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Hey I think it is brilliant. it is really clear.

But honestly if your wife has lost her sense of judgement enough to be exposing her kids to this I am not entirely optimistic that you will get anything but a very nasty reaction.
So I think it is great that you wrote it down and didn't yell at her in frustration - but I wouldn't be hoping for a rational response should you decide to go ahead and give it to her.

If you do :
I would leave out the comment about this paragraph being from your perspective
technically speaking it is all from your perspective
we can't write/see the world any other way....

Also I would leave out comment about asking your d to review it - this wouldn't be advisable in any circumstance - and you don't want to encourage your wife to even consider using your daughter as some sort of 'impartial' judge - she isn't impartial - it is her life as well

If it were me I would simply write something like

"Can you help me to understand why you have breached our agreement about your bf's contact with our children?....
they have expressed some serious concerns to me. I am worried about their emotional well-being".

The reason why I say short and sweet is that oonce she is feeling angry she may not even read past the first few lines...

and also you are holding all the cards - she won't know the details that you have.

I just think you are being very open and honest - perhaps in the spirit of open communication but it won't go like that - can't see how it will.
 

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K: Has a point. Keep it short and sweet.

I'm not sure why (3) of you have an agreement and not the (2) of you. The kids should be thought of first (I know you do) and left out as many "discussions" as possible.

This is between you and Shell to decide what is right for you kids. The 18 year old can come and go as she pleases but needs to not be treated as an adult (even though she is). She is still a child to you and your wife. I say this as many folks want to defer comments/suggestions to their adult children and putting her in such circumstances is harmful.

Just an opinion here. You know the details and the relationship better than I.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
(0700-0730) Dropped Kids off at house. Talked to Shell. She said a few times that my actions were a result of my feelings and 18-d's attitude. I explained each time that my actions and feelings were because of 9-d actions and feelings, and 18-d only verified facts regarding actions. I explained that I did not try to lead the conversation, and I did not talk bad about OM or her. I explained that 18-d was present for all of the conversation with the kids because she wanted to be, because I wanted her to be a part of the conversation, and because I wanted her to see that I was not leading 9-d and 8-s in discussion. I also explained that 18-d and I talk about the situation because she won’t, and that 18-d is VERY hurt and VERY angry and doesn’t feel that shell cares even to listen, much less to make different decisions. Conversation ended with a hug, and stayed level and calm.

Texts:
S2B - 0905 (after ortho appt) – good movement with her teeth. 8 weeks until next appt. 2 loose teeth on bottom will free up a lot of space
B2S – 1023 – Your 905 tm just came through. Tyvm for the update.
S2B – 1036 – can I borrow the van. Found a dresser for 9-d's room and need to pick it up. Would need it for about an hour.
B2S – 1038 – When?
S2B – 1038 – the earlier the better. Could be there in 30 minutes.
B2S – 1045 – No. Can’t do it today
S2B – 1046 – Then I will find another way

How can she remove from her mind everything that had happened the last 12 hours? Is this the start of me realizing that I cannot win by competing with OM? How do I make the decision that I am not going to try anymore? Does her reaching out to me at all symbolize that she still wants to rely on me, or is she just using me?
 

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Knortoh & Corpus - thanks for the input and suggestions. I had already delivered the letter ( I assume she read it before she sent the texts above) before I saw your suggestions. The events of the morning thus far are above.

Thank ya'll for your input. It really helps me get this stuff off my chest, and none of you know me from adam, so I figure you don't have any ill-intent or ulterior motives. Just trying to help. That's AWESOME. I hope I can help at that level once I have healed.
 

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I'm not sure why (3) of you have an agreement and not the (2) of you.
The only way I can explain my decision to involve my 18-d at the level that I do is becuse she has a lot of pain and resentment, and she sees so many things going on, and she has reached out to me and told me that she feels in the dark and alone because Shell won't talk to her or respect her feelings. Before I started sharing and talking in more detail, she had bottled up stuff for a few weeks, and then lashed out. That is when she told me (and my suspicions about an OM were first confirmed) that Shell had OM at the house snuggling in bed watching a movie only 2-3 days after I stopped staying there, and she had told Shell it as inappropriate and uacceptable, and Shell did not respect her feelings and continued to have OM at the house without his kids. That is when I sat Shell and 18-d down at same time, addressed the fact that there was indeed an OM, and stated that I could either do everything I could to fight the relationship with OM, or I could do everything I could to ensure that if there was going to be a relationship with OM, the kids were ok with it. That is when I asked Shell if she would not have OM over to the house alone because of the way that it affected 18-d, and she agreed. So, it’s kind of an agreement between me and shell, based on the feelings (originally) of 18-d. NOW the agreement must be renegotiated and is between me and shell, regardless of what the 18-d feels at any particular moment.

Rational?
 
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