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Forgive me... I swore I would never start a new post here again, but...

Tonight, I sat down next to my wife (caught her serially cheating some years ago) and we watched the "special" on Oprah with Lance admitting to drug cheating during his years riding in the Tour. Did anyone else here watch it? It was surreal. The parallels to a cheating spouse were just to much for me. He was really in a fog. The justifications, the denials, he gave while he was cheating were word for word from the pages here at CWI.

The question from Oprah... "Did you never see this day coming?" was the most telling. He admitted that he was so caught up in the thrill of winning, the emotions, the shear excitement of the chase, that he was oblivious to the reality of TRUTH that would take him down.

As he answered this question, I just sat there in a gaze. I lost total awareness of myself. My wife must of called my name 1/2 dozen times, no response. I looked up and she asked me what was going on? The flashback to me asking the exact same question 3 and 1/2 years ago was the truth. Nothing was said. Nothing was needed.
 

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Before we separated, I had similar flashbacks with my stbxw.

Eg - We grounded our 14 year old daughter for one month last August, just before school started. My daugther lied about where she was going and got in trouble. My stbxw got SO upset. At that point, our long-term false R was rapidly breaking down and I had given up on being subtle. Listening to my stbxw complaining to me later, I finally said "REALLY?? You're THAT upset? Maybe now you know how I felt". Then I asked her to lecture my daughter on the dangers of lying. She had nothing to say to that. Finally, I told her that NOTHING our daughter did would ever phase me because I'd already dealt with every "teenage" problem being married to her.

Anyway, one month later we were separated and it turns out that my stbxw's toxic friends had been introducing her as single, in August and throughout the summer. Basically trying to match her up. My stbxw lied about it, as usual, even going on a great family summer vacation and walking hand in hand with me along various East Coast beaches.

Yeah, lying cheaters are something else....
 

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LOL, every single cyclist in that league is using the same drugs that lance Armstrong used. In a bizarre way it actually is a level playing field.
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LOL, every single cyclist is using the same drugs that lance Armstrong used. In a bizarre way it actually is a level playing field.
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They couldn't even give his titles to 2nd,3rd,4th from those races because they caught them too with Lance but they went after him because he is the biggest fish.
 

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What I find amazing is that people are surprised. Pro cycling has been powered drugs since at least the early 1950's
Tour De France
Year and Average speed

1903 = 25.67 kmh
2005 = 41.654 Kmh
2009 = 40.31 Kmh


This is average speed of the race over weeks of torturous mountains and brutal time trials.
Even with improvements in support and equipment that is pretty telling.
 

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My wife and I had the very same thought. He used the same mental and emotional mechanisms to do what he did that someone in the throws of infidelity does. Scary really.

And I have to agree that while he was cheating, he did win the TDF all 7 times because he beat a bunch of other cheaters. He was just a better cyclist and a better cheater.
 

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Wow! My STBXH is a HUGE Lance Armstrong fan! He swore up and down that Mr. Wayward Armstrong was being "wrongly accused". I always knew he had something to hide. I guess even WH/WW idols, don't fall far from the deception tree. \\m//
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Yes Lance now ranks with the Scum of the Earth:

He used Cancer to say because he suffered through it he would never use performance enhancing drugs.

He called others who spoke the Truth about him Trolls and still has not appologized to them.

He used his power to bully others on the tour to not report on Steroid use or to Use steroids so they were part of the team.

The only reason he is coming true is because he was caught and is trying to minimize the damage. Sounds like a lot of WS here.
 

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What shocked me the most about this story was the bullying. It was bad enough to cheat but to threaten others if they didn't keep silent? That lowered him to the level of scum in my book too.
 

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LOL, every single cyclist in that league is using the same drugs that lance Armstrong used. In a bizarre way it actually is a level playing field.
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I never like this argument " well everyone else is doing it so " like the saying if everyone else jumped off a bridge would you?
 

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I never like this argument " well everyone else is doing it so " like the saying if everyone else jumped off a bridge would you?
In the case of elite athletics, if you want to play you have to get in the game. The first guy I ever met who was on Dianabol was in the 6th grade.

Think of elite athletics as a swingers club and doping as adultery (to continue in this vein). If you're a guy who wants to participate in sport fvcking, adultery is pretty much required.
 

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Sorry didn't realize what forum I was on.
Didn't mean to imply anything incorrect or wrong with your post at all - my apologies if I did. I was just trying to continue the comparison of Lance's actions to those of wayward spouse. I'm really finding it fascinating.

IMO there is a difference. If you want(ed) to be competitive as a professional cyclist I think you pretty much had to do the things he did. As he said, he never ordered anyone to dope and I believe that - BUT - he expected the riders on his team be competitive at a minimum. If they could ride to the level he expected without doping I don't think he would have cared in the least, but if they couldn't doping was available for them and if they refused I think he would consider them not committed to winning and cut them from the team. As far as the lying and the bullying - well he was under a spot light like no other athlete, everyone in Europe was gunning for him years ago. He couldn't very well stand up and say "yes I'm doping" and continue to compete and I think he adopted the position that the best defense is a strong offense - even if the position he was defending was a lie. Doesn't make it right, just my forensic analysis FWIW.
 

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I think many cheaters are able to resist their natural urge to cheat because of outside pressure, i.e. the particular environment. Conversely, if the environment is toxic then it brings out the worst in the cheater.

Take Armstrong - competed cleanly as a youth and won against adults as a young teenager in triathlons. But when he rose in the world of cycling, all of a sudden he's in a place where "everybody" cheats. So he was "forced" to cheat. How many times have BS's heard THAT one??

Another example. Tiger Woods - serial cheater in his personal life, but plays in a game where the honour system requires you to call penalties on yourself - even if you were the only one who saw the infraction. (Of course, don't want to get into a discussion of how Tiger and other golfers have bulked out via off-season workouts or the many rumours of various golfers taking beta blockers to help their putting). For the most part golf is a game of honour and even when you play with friends - cheaters eventually end up playing alone (eg - people who fake their handicaps). My stbxw is a very good golfer, who NEVER cheats at golf. Yet she was a serial liar/cheater late in our marriage.

My point is the environment has a lot to do with pre-disposed cheaters being able to suppress their natural tendency to cheat vs expressing it via cheating.

To bring it back to the thread and this forum, my stbxw obviously has a pre-disposition to cheat. Yet for 18 - 20 years of marriage she was loving and faithful. It was only when she started a completely new group of friends and GNO's with these toxic friends that her natural tendency to cheat expressed itself. A brand new environment which accepted cheating as the norm. Of course, you also could argue that after 20 years of suppression, my stbxw SOUGHT new friends who would match her natural tendency to cheat.

Interesting thread.
 

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Didn't mean to imply anything incorrect or wrong with your post at all - my apologies if I did. I was just trying to continue the comparison of Lance's actions to those of wayward spouse. I'm really finding it fascinating.
Ah got it and yes I find it fascinating as well.

Could you compare it to say getting friends to cover for the affair? To lie for them? Or possibly just the sheer lengths that people will go through to keep their secrets lives secret including threats and bullying.

I've seen stories where someone is a stay at home parent (male of female) and the WS is the provider. The WS uses this power to cake eat and the BS feels powerless to stop them.

From what I've heard Lance had the power to destroy people and that was what he held over them for their silence.
 

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Professional cycling at that time had the same blind spot that Major League Baseball had during the steroid era. It looked the other way because popularity and profits were on the upswing. Unlike baseball, cycling is an endurance sport so doping is a huge advantage. The guy who takes EPO or transfuses his own red blood cells back in to his body has a huge advantage in oxygen carrying capacity. That's why I think it is likely that everyone on the USPS team had to dope to keep up and other teams had to dope en masse as well. I can almost see the logic of that arms race.

What surprises me is how Armstrong thoroughly destroyed people who testified against him. Wrecked their careers, filed lawsuits against them, got associates to make threatening calls. The guy seems like a sociopath.
 

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What surprises me is how Armstrong thoroughly destroyed people who testified against him. Wrecked their careers, filed lawsuits against them, got associates to make threatening calls. The guy seems like a sociopath.
Sadly, it's not really surprising when you realize how much of a "justification" fog he was in. As it relates to this forum, think of how a WS will willfully neglect their own spouse AND children during their affairs. It IS a type of sociopathy and requires a total lack of empathy (a trait of sociopaths). Not implying that every WS is a sociopath, but during the so called "fog" they are temporarily acting like a sociopath.
 
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