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Discussion Starter #1
Frustrated at the lack of progress in my marriage I finally installed a keylogger. At this point I would like to find something. I do not care at this point. Evidence of cheating or evidence that she is trying to improve like she claims. Evidence that she is just buying time, anything at all, just not the same old please.

What I found is... well it is kind of hard to say, but fantasy land, like she never grew up. She does not look at anything sexual at all. All her male friends on Facebook are just that, friends. She looks at homes that no way we could afford. She looks at arts and crafts. She looks at complex recipes although she hates cooking and always wants to eat out. She looks up why our dogs breath smells bad.

I have forced her to MC twice. Thrown her out once. I have not seen any search about trying to fix a marriage. The only thing marriage related was when I forced her out she searchrd for "how do single moms make it on there own."

She promised me this time it will be different. It has been a few weeks since we had sex. She will have this totally shocked look on her face for the millionth time when she figures out I am not happy.

I am just dumbfounded how she can spend hours on the computer and never even take the time to do a search like "I do not want sex and my husband wants a divorce." I would even like a search "I do not love my husband anymore and do not know what to do." But there is nothing about what should be the most important thing that affects her life.

I know you guys can not help me, I am just ranting. Hopefully I will turn something up sooner or later. I got 7 more years to go until my son is old enough to be on his own.
 

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You really want to put yourself through this for 7 more years?

Your son will pick-up on the fact that you and your wife are not happy. He will assume that this is what marriage is supposed. Do you want him growing up with that view?

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times.....Kids would rather BE from a broken home then LIVE in one
 

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It sounds like you've spent a lot of time, money and emotional energy trying to fix your wife.

Have you figured out the secret to that yet?

Let me help you: You cannot fix her.

You can't change her, force her to change, make her better, or even make her different. You can only control, change, or fix yourself. She is the only one who can change her.

If she can't or won't after you've done all you can to address your side of the street and made your desires clear to her, then you will have to be the one to either accept her and your marriage - as-is - or leave. Trying to fix what you think is wrong with her is a frustrating, and in the end entirely futile, endeavor. People have to want to change. She doesn't seem to want to.
 

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Absolutely leave now. You are setting your son up to think this is what marriage is all about. I'm assuming he never sees affection or playfulness between you two. That's one of the happiest things I remembered about my parents who just celebrated 50 yeas together. Dad would smack Mom's butt as he passed through the kitchen and she'd squeal. I loved it. I assumed I would have a marriage just like theirs. :)

She is obviously not concerned about fixing things. As you pointed out she's more concerned finding a solution to dog breath than why her marriage is failing and what she can do about it. And she's sort of resigned to the failure aspect with the search on being a single mom (the wrong 'there' had me chuckling and shaking my head, tho).

Trust all of us - 7 years from now, you will wonder WHY IN THE HELL DID I STAY SO LONG?!?!?
 

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CrazyGuy, I get your frustration, and I haven't read your side of things, but if you're as judgmental about your wife in person as I saw in your post, I can understand why she doesn't want sex with you.

All the things you're griping about are NORMAL for people to do. They dream. They wish for things they'll never have. And it's not your place to determine that Google is the only acceptable source of information for her or that reading is the only acceptable learning source for her.

She may be asking friends. She might be giving it thought. She may turn to family. She may see the Internet as nothing more than a source of entertainment.

I hope I'm wrong, but your post struck me as arrogant and judgmental. If you want a BJ, take your wife on a tour of open houses over the weekend to let her indulge her fantasies.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
CrazyGuy, I get your frustration, and I haven't read your side of things, but if you're as judgmental about your wife in person as I saw in your post, I can understand why she doesn't want sex with you.

All the things you're griping about are NORMAL for people to do. They dream. They wish for things they'll never have. And it's not your place to determine that Google is the only acceptable source of information for her or that reading is the only acceptable learning source for her.

She may be asking friends. She might be giving it thought. She may turn to family. She may see the Internet as nothing more than a source of entertainment.

I hope I'm wrong, but your post struck me as arrogant and judgmental. If you want a BJ, take your wife on a tour of open houses over the weekend to let her indulge her fantasies.
Kathy I assure you I am a "Beta type personality, or as some would say a doormat." I was one of those guys that would always open and close the car door for her ect. Both cars we own are ones that she wanted, we did not even road test the one I wanted. I am not a pet person. But I allowed her to get, rabbits, seven cats, fish, hamster, bird, and a dog despite my preference to have a home without claw marks every place. Even my motorcycle is a few models down because she said that she wanted to learn how to ride one so I bought something smaller and easy for her. So I will take you calling me arrogant and judgmental as a complimant.... Thanks :) Because it takes a lot to change somebody's personality.

I understand the dreaming part. During her stay at home years when I was working 12 hour days, I did the same thing. It set a goal. She always hated going to open houses. She always said what is the point? We can not afford this. And I always pointed out that hopefully someday we could and I was just trying to figure out exactly what I wanted when we got there. I think this caused guilt in her because of her lack at being able to hold a job. For me to dream now I would be looking at match.com. But that would be inappropriate.

As for other sources for marriage help. She quit counseling every time, not me. Her best friend gets drum lessons when hubby is not home because drummers are muscular and she flirts with them. Every body else that she knows is in the middle of a divorce or just now getting married after a long singles life. She thinks not having sex for a year and a half is normal because she knows somebody else like that. And yes they are getting divorced too. I have even gone to my Paster for help. She has not done any seeking that I can tell of. In mater of fact she has lied to me saying that the same Paster I had seen said he could not help since we are not members of that Church. Her family is not a source either since they are all always fighting with each other. She does not talk with her dad or mom. If one of her sisters numbers would show up on caller ID she would grill me if I talked to them.
 

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Crazyguy,

I have not read your story so i don't much at all. I will say that i am or went thru the same thing as you almost similar but not completely similar.

You see i keylogged the computer also hoping to find stuff that she was cheating, talking to someone, on her facebook she has nothing but family, i check her emails nothing there. I just hoped to find something that would push me over the edge to find a reason to divorce her.

I was looking for something to tell me why we haven't had sex (its been a month). Something to tell me why she always had an attitude with me, to tell me why she had so much anger towards me, etc.

But i didn't find anything at all and till this day nothing is there.

You know what i found.....That i was being paranoid for nothing. The problem and the solution have always been right in front of me but i didn't want to see it.

The issues between me and my wife is because i am not there for my family financially, we always struggled and i let her take the load of getting us help or borrowing money to keep us afloat for a week or two. I was not an attentive husband, i always ignored the signals she was trying to give me because i was being selfish. I wasn't being a good enough father because i was always out drinking and partying instead of spending quality time with my kids and as a family.

I was accusing my wife of having an affair or talking to someone because i made her be the way she was being because of all the hurt i caused my family. Honestly i was turning a blind eye to the situation because i didn't wanna hear that it was my actions causing all this turmoil.

But now i see it and im glad i found nothing to incriminate my wife. Yea she's not a perfect person but who is. All along it was me imagining things cause i didn't wanna face the truth. I was the one doing the wrong.

Becareful what you wish for because sometimes you might get it and then your gonna wish you didn't get it but it will be to late.

So stop judging your wife and trying to find stuff to pin on her. Instead really take a good look at your marriage and take a really good look at yourself to see if maybe what your doing may be causing a rift in your marriage.

As for me slowly little by little i see pieces of my old wife coming back. It will not be easy and fast to get her heart healed or knock down the wall she has around her heart to protect herself from pain of me hurting her again. Because she says she is afraid i will go back to my old ways, but i will never become my old self again after this weekend.

If you really love your family, your son and wife and you feel a small glimmer of hope then i will tell you not to give up and just fight to fix it.

Yes you can't change a person but if you change yourself the other person will see it and they will change with you.

I wish you luck and keep the faith and hope in you going.
 

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Kathy I assure you I am a "Beta type personality, or as some would say a doormat." I was one of those guys that would always open and close the car door for her ect. Both cars we own are ones that she wanted, we did not even road test the one I wanted. I am not a pet person. But I allowed her to get, rabbits, seven cats, fish, hamster, bird, and a dog despite my preference to have a home without claw marks every place. Even my motorcycle is a few models down because she said that she wanted to learn how to ride one so I bought something smaller and easy for her. So I will take you calling me arrogant and judgmental as a complimant.... Thanks :) Because it takes a lot to change somebody's personality.

I understand the dreaming part. During her stay at home years when I was working 12 hour days, I did the same thing. It set a goal. She always hated going to open houses. She always said what is the point? We can not afford this. And I always pointed out that hopefully someday we could and I was just trying to figure out exactly what I wanted when we got there. I think this caused guilt in her because of her lack at being able to hold a job. For me to dream now I would be looking at match.com. But that would be inappropriate.

As for other sources for marriage help. She quit counseling every time, not me. Her best friend gets drum lessons when hubby is not home because drummers are muscular and she flirts with them. Every body else that she knows is in the middle of a divorce or just now getting married after a long singles life. She thinks not having sex for a year and a half is normal because she knows somebody else like that. And yes they are getting divorced too. I have even gone to my Paster for help. She has not done any seeking that I can tell of. In mater of fact she has lied to me saying that the same Paster I had seen said he could not help since we are not members of that Church. Her family is not a source either since they are all always fighting with each other. She does not talk with her dad or mom. If one of her sisters numbers would show up on caller ID she would grill me if I talked to them.
Being a beta doesn't mean that you respect your wife or treat her well.

And being arrogant doesn't make you more alpha.

I'm glad you have been seeking help, but the bottom line is that your attitude and thoughts determine what you're feeling. You seem to have an attitude that she's not worthy, that you are somehow superior, and that you deserve better. As long as you feel these things, your marriage will suck.

I would encourage you to find reasons to celebrate your wife and all her eccentricities and flaws if you want her to be cooperative with you and seek counseling, too. If you want her to have sex with her, give her non-sexual affection at least five or six times for every time you do want to have sex - a foot massage, a shoulder rub, an arm around her shoulder, kind words. Find reasons to appreciate her genuinely instead of "caving in" to her whims, and be willing to take a firm stand on what's best for the marriage.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Life, thanks for your post. But I always blamed myself first. It is why I stayed for so long already. Married 17 years, known her for 20. Always trying to balance being a good provider and family time. I worked hard to be a provider but I was "distant and not home enough." Cut my hours back and now "not enough money." Trust me I beat the [email protected]@ out of myself always thinking it was my fault. And yes, some of it is my fault, I should have seen what was happening and stood my ground sooner. But I was always at work or home. I never hanged out with friends or did the bar thing. If anything I was too clingy.

I paid every bill that came through the door. Yet somehow she rang up an incredible amount of dept going shopping when I was at work. Just one of her credit card payments was $1600 a month when she finally came to me about the problem. I paid them off with my 401k. She now has more dept again.

Really I have a very strong since of duty. It is what is keeping me here yet although I am grasping for solid reasons to put that final nail in the coffin. My son is a very happy kid, I can remember those care free days from my life as a kid. I want them to last for him.

I started working on our marriage 11 years ago. I made it clear to my wife what I needed. Have been working on it ever since. Let me tell you sex one time in a year for eleven years is a living he!!. So you guys are seeing some of my drastic steps that make me look arrogant, they are the only things left to try. I tried everything. But as other poster said, I can not fix her. She refuses to see a problem. And for me doing the same thing over again is insanity.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm assuming he never sees affection or playfulness between you two. That's one of the happiest things I remembered about my parents who just celebrated 50 yeas together. Dad would smack Mom's butt as he passed through the kitchen and she'd squeal. I loved it. I assumed I would have a marriage just like theirs. :)
You are correct about the affection. Sounds like your parents have the marriage many people dream about.
 

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Life, thanks for your post. But I always blamed myself first. It is why I stayed for so long already. Married 17 years, known her for 20. Always trying to balance being a good provider and family time. I worked hard to be a provider but I was "distant and not home enough." Cut my hours back and now "not enough money." Trust me I beat the [email protected]@ out of myself always thinking it was my fault. And yes, some of it is my fault, I should have seen what was happening and stood my ground sooner. But I was always at work or home. I never hanged out with friends or did the bar thing. If anything I was too clingy.

I paid every bill that came through the door. Yet somehow she rang up an incredible amount of dept going shopping when I was at work. Just one of her credit card payments was $1600 a month when she finally came to me about the problem. I paid them off with my 401k. She now has more dept again.

Really I have a very strong since of duty. It is what is keeping me here yet although I am grasping for solid reasons to put that final nail in the coffin. My son is a very happy kid, I can remember those care free days from my life as a kid. I want them to last for him.

I started working on our marriage 11 years ago. I made it clear to my wife what I needed. Have been working on it ever since. Let me tell you sex one time in a year for eleven years is a living he!!. So you guys are seeing some of my drastic steps that make me look arrogant, they are the only things left to try. I tried everything. But as other poster said, I can not fix her. She refuses to see a problem. And for me doing the same thing over again is insanity.
I respect that and now see where you coming from on this. Yes its hard to leave when you have kids thats understandable.

I will only wish you luck from this point CRAZYGUY, i really hope that god gives you a sign and the courage to decide what to do in your life. And just keep being a great father for your son he deserves to be happy no matter if his parents can't get along.

He's the innocent one in the relationship.
 

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What I found is... well it is kind of hard to say, but fantasy land, like she never grew up. She does not look at anything sexual at all.

She will have this totally shocked look on her face for the millionth time when she figures out I am not happy.
Brother I feel your pain, for my wife is the same way. I've moved out twice and hopefully I'll have the nad's to file after the holiday's like I plan and she will do just what you said...a deer caught in the headlights thinking "What? Where did this come from???" when I've told her a dozen times I don't want to be married to her any more.

Like another poster said, you cannot change her. Took me a long time and a lot of frustration to realize that and just stop trying. I just treat her like a roomate now until I can get out for good. She's treated me like her daddy ever since our first was born 13 years ago.

Good luck to ya.
 

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Join the crowd...

I'm in a three year sexless marriage after 17 years, I asked my wife recently....

"have you read, visited any sites, talked to anyone about our issue we are having during the past three years?"

She answered NO I just try to have fun. (This was said while still texting the OM daily)

I think women sometimes just don't want to know. Because they don't want to be proven wrong! They know full well what the experts would say about them. They justify their behaviors. Its like an alcoholic looking for ways to stop drinking... doesn't happen.

Seems to me at least they just wait for feelings to return and won't lift a finger to do anything about it until they are faced with divorce or undeniable proof they are the issue.

For me the biggest changes occurred recently when last weekend I gave her a marriage choice or a divorce choice all laid out with details including full exposure of her EA and a follow up letter about the telltale signs of being in an EA,

Now she is responding and OMG wait for it... she is actually doing something! Actually making drastic changes. She had been making small changes but now big huge ones.

It does boil down to HER finally deciding she needed to do something.


I think its safe to say... you will not see any change until you somehow affect change I've been on my wife in various ways for well over a month as we approached a year 3 of this . You almost have to wear them down and get then to look in the mirror when you aren't looking. They have to want to FULLY resolve the issue.

So for me it was essentially TWO over ONE hour talks with her in a very controlled fashion... and a letter.

That made the difference.

First talk... would not let her wriggle out and got her to state there is an ISSUE, it needs RESOLVED and done so in a TIMELY FASHION , I also made her commit to MARRIAGE.

Next talk...2 weeks later... SAT her down let her know based on obvious and overwhelming factors she was now down to TWO choices A or B.

She never chose, I asked next day about any concerns.. she said NO but I'm not giving up a "friend" I looked at her sternly and said that's your choice.

That night I gave her a top ten list identifying EAs she scored 6 of 10. 2 means EA. i also expressed shock that she would chose him over me and risk her marriage and family and shock that he would continue to contact her after he promised me not to. Told her its her choice and I trust she'll make a good decision. I said he was a THREAT and not worth any more of my time.

The next day she stopped texting him ... only short response
Next day after that NO TEXTS in fact cut entirely down on texting.

This is after her stating... I will not give up a friend.

First time in three years they have not been in daily contact via texts. 20-40 each day morning noon night to ZERO.


Affect change! Snap your spouse back into reality.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well I finally got something off the keylogger. A female coworker was chatting with my wife. They were making fun of me, Saying things like "yeah he is going to get a lot of sex this weakend.... not." Well at least I know what is going on in her head as she has promised me with tears in her eyes that she will work on the problem. Hope I can get more.
 

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This is why I warn people about key loggers even as I respect their usefulness.

Knowing what is going on in her mind *can* be useful information, but it can also be hurtful. This comment does not tell you what's contributing to her not wanting to have sex with you or what she's unhappy about, which is the *real* problem, but now you have two problems - why she's not happy AND the way you feel when you realize she has such disdain for you, even if it was just a temporary, fleeting thought that she typed out but doesn't normally feel.
 

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I think part of the problem is you. You've "accepted" this for so long that it has become the default living situation.

I'd tell her that there are one of two places she can go... marriage counseling or divorce court. She can choose.
 

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Both cars we own are ones that she wanted, we did not even road test the one I wanted. I am not a pet person. But I allowed her to get, rabbits, seven cats, fish, hamster, bird, and a dog despite my preference to have a home without claw marks every place. Even my motorcycle is a few models down because she said that she wanted to learn how to ride one so I bought something smaller and easy for her.
WTF dude. WTF...

If you roll over for all these things in your life, continually stuff "what CrazyGuy wants" for "what Mrs CrazyGuy wants", why are you acting surprised that Mrs CrazyGuy isn't doing what you want now?

Think about this: How have you trained her to treat you like this?

Sounds to me like every waking moment of your life further encourages your behavior.

When are you going to snap? What sort of destructive behavior do you think snapping is going to involve???

How happy is your son going to be in his marriage :(
 
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