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"He" won't. Because, elite women will be the drivers behind the change, unless the wheels fall off completely before then, which is a real possibility. Look at how big alimony payments to men are covered in the NYT; when men are the recipients, the women attempt the usual shaming tactics, "he's not a real man." That might have worked 20 years ago, but now the guys just laugh. In the next couple of years, most medical, dental, and law students will be women, if they aren't already. So, it's not hard to see how this is going to go, if the trend continues.

Now, you might say that this situation will only apply to elite women and normal women will be hurt when the gimme store gets closed down, but it won't matter. Women will dance in solidarity to whatever tune the female elites call, just as they have done since Seneca Falls in 1848.
This is how I see it as well. More women are major breadwinners. They are the ones who will be paying more alimony soon. They will want the laws changed and it will happen.

Male pride is an obstacle in the divorce game that men will have to learn to ignore. And my feeling is that they increasingly will. Why be a 'man' when it means being left poor?

Many states are going to a strictly 50/50 split. With more women being the breadwinners, I also expect the marriage rates to decline among them, because they won't want to risk their financial security. Women generally don't feel the same responsibility to take care of a man the way that men used to feel about taking care of a woman. It is what it is. Men are supposed to be a man, after all, and that means not taking handouts from anyone...it's unmanly. That's not to say women don't care. Of course they do. But why risk your finances if you don't have to? Prenups galore.
 

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This is how I see it as well. More women are major breadwinners. They are the ones who will be paying more alimony soon. They will want the laws changed and it will happen.

Male pride is an obstacle in the divorce game that men will have to learn to ignore. And my feeling is that they increasingly will. Why be a 'man' when it means being left poor?

Many states are going to a strictly 50/50 split. With more women being the breadwinners, I also expect the marriage rates to decline among them, because they won't want to risk their financial security. Women generally don't feel the same responsibility to take care of a man the way that men used to feel about taking care of a woman. It is what it is. Men are supposed to be a man, after all, and that means not taking handouts from anyone...it's unmanly. That's not to say women don't care. Of course they do. But why risk your finances if you don't have to? Prenups galore.
Call me cynical but I don't see it happening. I think what will most likely happen is that judges and courts will simply award CS, alimony, and asset awards along gender lines, not income lines. Actually, that's already happening now. And a little research 'behind the curtain' reveals that states may claim they are going to 50/50 splits, but in practice it doesn't work that way. The system is so biased it's truly unbelievable.
 

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Many states are going to a strictly 50/50 split. With more women being the breadwinners, I also expect the marriage rates to decline among them, because they won't want to risk their financial security.
I'm guessing this is why states which were never under Spanish Law are adopting Community Property statutes. Previously, ComProp states were only in the Southwest, California to Louisiana, and they originally did not have alimony. I found it odd that so many states were adopting both over time, since they were actually two opposing solutions to the same problem.
 

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RE: 50/50 or presumption thereof:

Many a man has heard that judges have 'wide judicial discretion' in the family court system. Read: it's their way of continuing to screw men while simultaneously maintaining the pretense of fairness. There is no such thing in family court.
 

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"The Rules of Court", make it clear in my state, what is legal and what isn't. In the room alone with the master, there are things which can sway decisions and final judgments. There are also factors which make income look less, which are legal, but make the burden much greater on the parent paying child support. These factors are all legal. The master cannot break the law. In many cases, the law was determined as any other, with consideration of many factors, not just facts and figures.
 

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Ill NEVER marry again...and I tell every young single guy my story...it aint worth it

there is NOTHING positive I want or need from a woman that I cant get dating...nothing...except for negatives..
 

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Don't worry dudes, most of us don't fall into the top 20% of those whom women consider desirable enough to marry, so we probably won't have to worry about it.

Oh wait, I'm married....
 

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Don't worry dudes, most of us don't fall into the top 20% of those whom women consider desirable enough to marry, so we probably won't have to worry about it.

Oh wait, I'm married....
It would be nice though, not to fall into the top 10% of those whom women consider completely undesirable for marriage. :D Speaking of myself here.
 

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It would be nice though, not to fall into the top 10% of those whom women consider completely undesirable for marriage. :D Speaking of myself here.
Use a little marketing. Package yourself as a "bargain basement deal" and some woman somewhere will see your value. Make sure you emphasize that you're a low-maintenance prospect and that you'll never cheat (I mean, what woman would cheat with you anyway? Throw that out there as an honesty ploy.).

Throw some Bonnie Raitt her way, it'll put her in the right frame of mind.

Bonnie Raitt - Thing Called Love - YouTube


It"ll work, believe me. :smthumbup:
 

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There is no real conflict here. Both men and women have the freedom to make a choice and do so. Neither of us need to marry. It's just that women are now able, like men, to make that choice. Moreover, society no longer looks down women who chose to remain single.

These are the things that the stats don't show: IRL, don't men want to marry as much as women? Many men have a harder time being alone than women and want a relationship with someone who will love them and meet their needs.

Some women don't want to get married the first or second time or even date. My mother didn't after my father died. she said one was enough although she had more than one man who wanted to date her.

I think it's normal to have dire predictions with large social evolutionary change. Voting rights, birth control, SS and medicare, to name a few. Its a work in progress that has yet to reach a happy equilibrium for both men and women.
 

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►1912 – Mrs. C. H. Hughston – Suffrage leader

Many an American husband turns over every penny he makes to the woman he marries, receiving back from her a meager allowance for carfare and lunches. Perhaps she runs up extra bills; if she does, he struggles meekly to pay them, and consoles himself with the fact that Mary and the girls look ‘better’n any body in town.’ He breaks down from overwork in his early maturity, and nobody has anything but pity for his family.

[Marguerite Mooers Marshall, “Give Men Rights, Is the Doctrine of Suffragists – No Wife Should Take All of Her Husband’s Wages, Says Mrs. C. A. Hughston. - Wives Ought to Help. – They Should Not Keep Their Earnings Out of the Family Fund.” The World, Evening Edition (N.Y.), Jul. 6,1912, p. 10]


►1927 – Helen Rowland – journalist

“All that the modern girl asks of man is that he treat her with tenderness and chivalry – and the same time permit her to drive the car, run the house, swim the Channel and beat him at golf and tennis.
That he acknowledge her as his economic equal – and then marry her and pay all her bills for the rest of his life.
That he join her in petting parties and take her to night-club orgies – and, at the same time, respect her, love her truly, and regard her kisses as a romantic adventure or a 'sacred' privilege.
… That he permit her to go around almost as barely clothed as a savage and as gaudily decked out as a Hottentot – and at the same time reverently keep on his coat and take off his hat in her presence, as though she were a civilized woman.
That he allow her to make his social rules, choose his friends and censor his clothes – and at the same time think of her as a cute, lovable, little thing to be 'taken care of' – God’s greatest Gift to Man!
That’s positively ALL! And yet, men are becoming so woman-shy, that it is getting harder to lure a man into marriage than it is to get a golfer into church!”

[Helen Rowland, “Why Men Don’t Marry” (“Meditations of A Married Woman,” (column), syndicated, Miami Daily News (Fl.), Jan. 25, 1927, p. 4]

►1927 – Fannie Hurst – writer

Married women “have become parasites and consumers instead of producers, taking no share in their husbands’ burdens, and are worse chattels than their grandmothers,” Miss Hurst said. “The vast army of women seeking divorce are mainly after easy alimony from men they have ceased to love – surely one of the most despicable forms of barter that can exchange human hands.”

[“Two Prominent Women Differ Over Present-Day Wives - Fannie Hurst and Mrs. J.Borden Harriman Take Opposite Views in Magazine War.” syndicated (UP), Dunkirk Evening Observer (N.Y.), Jul. 12, 1927, p. 7]

►1929 – Dorothy Dix – journalist, “the world’s most highly paid woman writer”

I often wonder that the modern woman does not perceive that she is killing the goose that lays the golden egg by her attitude toward men. By which I mean to say that it is women themselves who are destroying the things that they value most in life. It is women’s hands that are tearing to tatters the chiffons of romance and sentiment and idealism in which men have always clothed them. It is women who are stifling tenderness and slaying chivalry in the hearts of men. It is women who are doing away with all the graces and sweetnesses that made charm in the relationship between men and women and that incidentally lured men into matrimony.
For women are making men afraid of them and what they will do to them and that makes men cold and cautious in dealing with the fair sex. Even Romeo watches his step and counts the calories in his sweet talk when he keeps a date with Juliet nowadays.
Women don’t like this. They complain bitterly that there are no impassioned lovers. They say that young men are so afraid they may compromise themselves by their attentions to a girl that ten minutes alter meeting her they serve notice on her that they have no intention of marrying and that even one’s fiance’s letters read like a communication about the state of the stock market instead of being an outpouring of burning affection. …
Worse still, women are keeping men from marrying by demanding so much alimony that it makes matrimony not only a gamble in happiness but the most risky financial speculation they can engage in.
Under the present laws a man can marry a girl who makes no effort in any way to be a good wife. She can refuse to keep house, refuse to bear children She can be lazy, extravagant, high-tempered, nagging and make his life a torment to him, yet she can force him to support her as long as he lives. And, such being the case, it is not strange that prudent men are shying of more and more from the altar.

[Dorothy Dix, “Why Can’t The Modern Woman See That She Is Killing the Goose That Laysthe Golden Eggs When She Places a Commercial Value on Every Endearment a Man Utters, Cries Dorothy Dix,” syndicated, The Bee (Danville, W. Va.), Dec. 6,1929, p. 12]


►1937 – Lois Maddox Miller – journalist

Few people realize how easy it is to have a man thrown into jail for non-payment of money owed. A person who owes as little as $5 may be put behind the bars in New York City even before being tried and found guilty of not paying a debt. …
But let me tell you there’s nothing funny ahead for the man who is escorted to a county jail to serve three months or so just because he is unable to beg, borrow or steal enough money, to satisfy (temporarily, at least) some hysterical or vindictive woman who is his former spouse. If he has a job, he’ll probably lose it; if he has a business, it will probably go to pieces in his absence. He can’t earn any money while he is in jail, so when he is released three months later he will be broke” and jobless, and that Ol’ Debbil Alimony will catch up with him so fast that it is almost a sure-thing bet that his ex-wife will have him back behind the bars in no time.

[Miller, Lois Maddox, “I’m a Slave of His First Wife – Laments This Distracted Woman in a True-Life Drama that Bares One Side of New York’s ‘Alimony Racket,’ in Which Vengeful Wife No. 1 Can, and Often Does, Jail the Man She Loved, Until He is Down and Completely Out,” Billings GazetteMagazine (Montana), Jul. 25, 1937, Magazine Section]

The Unknown History of MISANDRY
 

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This is an interesting thread. Great posts by lifeistooshort and 2galsmom. I agree that men should look for a good woman with a strong character rather than just an attractive woman, and that women should favor character over earning potential in a marriage partner. I dislike belief systems which ascribe people lower value as partners based on age, etc. If you want to get married, rock solid character is the most important trait to look for.

Wilderness, you know I agree with you politically about a lot of things, and about the violence of government. I agree the state should not be a 3rd party in the marriage contract as it currently is. I would not call myself a feminist, I prefer the gender neutral term egalitarian, as in both genders are equally valuable, and one compliments the other. However, I take issue with your position that divorce courts always favor women in 100% of cases, no exceptions. This is an irrational statement, even in light of the fact that the system isn't what we would like it to be. I agree that family courts are biased towards women in general, but its not absolute. I agree with earlier posters that alimony should be phased out or only be temporary.
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Actually, the Pareto Principle is even worse than that.
I think if you turn this around though, men probably consider only 20% of women suitable for marriage too.

Its fine to be discriminating, otherwise you might end up with a partner with a sh*tty character.

More than 20% of people get married through, so I question whether these stats are even true.
 

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This is an interesting thread. Great posts by lifeistooshort and 2galsmom. I agree that men should look for a good woman with a strong character rather than just an attractive woman, and that women should favor character over earning potential in a marriage partner. I dislike belief systems which ascribe people lower value as partners based on age, etc. If you want to get married, rock solid character is the most important trait to look for.

Wilderness, you know I agree with you politically about a lot of things, and about the violence of government. I agree the state should not be a 3rd party in the marriage contract as it currently is. I would not call myself a feminist, I prefer the gender neutral term egalitarian, as in both genders are equally valuable, and one compliments the other. However, I take issue with your position that divorce courts always favor women in 100% of cases, no exceptions. This is an irrational statement, even in light of the fact that the system isn't what we would like it to be. I agree that family courts are biased towards women in general, but its not absolute. I agree with earlier posters that alimony should be phased out or only be temporary.
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I'm not basing my opinion on whim or sentiment. I'm basing it on real life experience. For example, I often watch the hearings for restraining orders at the court near my work. I have NEVER, ever, seen a judge turn down a woman asking for a restraining order. Not even one time. Yet in all my years of watching, I've only seen ONE man obtain a restraining order against a woman. ONE.
I realize this is only one aspect of divorce, but it's the most important aspect. Restraining orders are the lynchpin of favorable divorce settlements for women.
 

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I'm not basing my opinion on whim or sentiment. I'm basing it on real life experience. For example, I often watch the hearings for restraining orders at the court near my work. I have NEVER, ever, seen a judge turn down a woman asking for a restraining order. Not even one time. Yet in all my years of watching, I've only seen ONE man obtain a restraining order against a woman. ONE.
I realize this is only one aspect of divorce, but it's the most important aspect. Restraining orders are the lynchpin of favorable divorce settlements for women.
I don't disagree with this. However there are irresponsible, abusive, or drug addicted women who don't get custody.
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