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Discussion Starter #381
The problem is that the affair may be a deal/marriage breaker for HIM...and he most likely won't care how YOU feel about it...
This is most definitely a possibility. He does not seem to care much about me or my feelings right now, even though occasionally he's considerate. At least he's stopped being down right mean to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #382
Yes, I recall the OP mentioning that early in this thread. However, that was years ago and this is now. I'm wondering if she's fine with opening up the marriage again. Since both of them agreed to it way back when, why would he be hesitant to tell her now that he's seeing someone else? (If he actually is ...)
Opening up the marriage is not on the table for discussion currently, but it has given me perspective on love, intimacy, and sex. The 3 don't always go together, and an affair might or might not be a deal breaker for me because it would depend on the reason, if there were any remorse etc.

I have decided that I am going to try and figure out the code to his phone...I have to slyly watch him "type" it when he thinks I'm not looking and then snoop when he's in the shower or something similar. I am coming to the conclusion that I need some evidence, or a more concrete way to rule it out, and it would be on his phone most likely, either text or whatsapp messaging.

He left his watch home the other day, but I couldn't figure out that code.
 

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Opening up the marriage is not on the table for discussion currently, but it has given me perspective on love, intimacy, and sex. The 3 don't always go together, and an affair might or might not be a deal breaker for me because it would depend on the reason, if there were any remorse etc.

I have decided that I am going to try and figure out the code to his phone...I have to slyly watch him "type" it when he thinks I'm not looking and then snoop when he's in the shower or something similar. I am coming to the conclusion that I need some evidence, or a more concrete way to rule it out, and it would be on his phone most likely, either text or whatsapp messaging.

He left his watch home the other day, but I couldn't figure out that code.
I would stand before him with his phone in my hand and say, "what's the code, I want to check your phone because you are acting so badly towards me and won't tell me why", and if he wouldn't do that, I'd LEAVE. I'd come back if he was willing to work with me and be honest, but "limbo" for me is painful, I can't just SIT in it.

But that's ME...I am willing to tear the whole thing down to get to the truth, because TRUTH MATTERS to me. I refuse to have any relationship without it. That isn't what matters to you as much (and that's ok) - but you need to decide for yourself what DOES, and work towards THAT.
You keep saying, you don't want to throw your long marriage away over his attitude, and that's a good perspective to have, as long as THAT is what's going on - that it's only his attitude/depression/mood. If it's something else, you need to know so you can choose your own boundaries with what's really going on.

For ME, if a man doesn't want ME or isn't sure if he wants ME, for ANY reason, I have NO problem stepping out of his way so he can MOVE the eff ON... Would I be sad...? YES, but if he can't see MY value, then he's going blind and I don't want HIM. I don't need that dead-weight holding me down!!

YOU are AWESOME!!! I can tell from everything you've written that you are an asset to him, a devoted partner, and an exciting woman! HE is the lucky one!! If he is losing his vision of your awesomeness, HE doesn't deserve the benefit of it!
 

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I forgot to ask my gynecologist when I went yesterday. POOP. Too much on my mind, however I do need to call them back to discuss scheduling my ablation and I'll bring it up then.
I hope your ablation goes as well as mine. I think it is awesome under advertised procedure. I had almost no after effects of the procedure and it completely cured my meningorrhea.
 

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Did I miss something and there is now proof of an affair ? Last I "knew" was just a bunch here trying to convince you that is was a fact even thought there is no proof of it or even half strong evidence - and you have pretty open access to his communications. Is living in suspicion making things better ?

I'm going to state and ask something I don't intend to be mean but may sound it. You are starting menopause - correct ? I went part way thru it with a partner who was in it's grip and it wasn't fun - it was all me not living up to expectations, "changing", being secretive even thou I felt I wasn't and really don't think I made any changes from the way things had been, etc. Fact was 85% of it was her changed view of me and life - not me. We didn't make it. I got to the point were I was unhappy and felt she never would be happy again so I threw in the towel.
 

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I understand your explanation and it makes sense.
but the truth is I am not happy and I think it's obvious and I don't think he cares.
This vacation isn't making me happy, so maybe it's all about OW and not me.
I'm not *****ing or complaining either, so maybe it's easy to ignore, but I refuse to follow him around demanding answers and begging for information.
Also, this vacation was NOT PLANNED....a different one was planned and it got cancelled.
This one was thrown together 20 days ago and I believe we are both exhausted just thinking about it.
seems dreadful.
 

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OP mentioned "if there's any remorse." I don't know. Let's ask men. Do you feel remorse about getting sex outside of whatever relationship you're in, or is it just fear or losing the partner?

Maybe it's just who is most vocal, but I've not noted a lot of remorse from men cheating for sex. So many of them justify it as their most important need not being met, a concept most women can't wrap their head around. Or "it just happened."

And then there's the whole "tip of the iceberg" problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #389
I would stand before him with his phone in my hand and say, "what's the code, I want to check your phone because you are acting so badly towards me and won't tell me why", and if he wouldn't do that, I'd LEAVE. I'd come back if he was willing to work with me and be honest, but "limbo" for me is painful, I can't just SIT in it.

But that's ME...I am willing to tear the whole thing down to get to the truth, because TRUTH MATTERS to me. I refuse to have any relationship without it. That isn't what matters to you as much (and that's ok) - but you need to decide for yourself what DOES, and work towards THAT.
You keep saying, you don't want to throw your long marriage away over his attitude, and that's a good perspective to have, as long as THAT is what's going on - that it's only his attitude/depression/mood. If it's something else, you need to know so you can choose your own boundaries with what's really going on.

For ME, if a man doesn't want ME or isn't sure if he wants ME, for ANY reason, I have NO problem stepping out of his way so he can MOVE the eff ON... Would I be sad...? YES, but if he can't see MY value, then he's going blind and I don't want HIM. I don't need that dead-weight holding me down!!

YOU are AWESOME!!! I can tell from everything you've written that you are an asset to him, a devoted partner, and an exciting woman! HE is the lucky one!! If he is losing his vision of your awesomeness, HE doesn't deserve the benefit of it!
Thank you. I am an asset, I am devoted, I can be exciting. Hopefully he finds his way back, but if he doesn't, I have the confidence that perhaps someone else might enjoy or benefit from my good traits. It is painful, the limbo...truth matters to me as well, hopefully I find my path back there too...just waiting for the right time, or if it doesn't present, maybe the right time to take my stand. It will eventually become clear to me, either because I know something concrete about what's going on, or because I've gained clarity to what I can or can't take.
 

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Discussion Starter #390
OP mentioned "if there's any remorse." I don't know. Let's ask men. Do you feel remorse about getting sex outside of whatever relationship you're in, or is it just fear or losing the partner?

Maybe it's just who is most vocal, but I've not noted a lot of remorse from men cheating for sex. So many of them justify it as their most important need not being met, a concept most women can't wrap their head around. Or "it just happened."

And then there's the whole "tip of the iceberg" problem.
You sound bitter. Why?
 

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Discussion Starter #392
Did I miss something and there is now proof of an affair ? Last I "knew" was just a bunch here trying to convince you that is was a fact even thought there is no proof of it or even half strong evidence - and you have pretty open access to his communications. Is living in suspicion making things better ?

I'm going to state and ask something I don't intend to be mean but may sound it. You are starting menopause - correct ? I went part way thru it with a partner who was in it's grip and it wasn't fun - it was all me not living up to expectations, "changing", being secretive even thou I felt I wasn't and really don't think I made any changes from the way things had been, etc. Fact was 85% of it was her changed view of me and life - not me. We didn't make it. I got to the point were I was unhappy and felt she never would be happy again so I threw in the towel.
There is no proof, still just red flags and worry.
I do have a lot of "insider" info as to his schedule and work, still think an actual affair would be a logistical nightmare.

Living in suspicion SUCKs. But the reality is that it's hard some days that my imagination gets the best of me. Oh wait, there are red flags too.

Not 100% sure what you are saying about menopause? Can you clarify?
 

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OK so you say you know his schedule. So you are saying you don't think a woman could be meeting him at his hotel and spending the night?
 

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You sound bitter. Why?
I've just hung out on boards where there was a lot of cheating talk and not enough sex talk, and remorse isn't something I've seen a lot of there, but of course, the forums attract people who have problems more than people who don't.
 

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Discussion Starter #396
OK so you say you know his schedule. So you are saying you don't think a woman could be meeting him at his hotel and spending the night?

No, he works in multiple cities in multiple states, I'm saying it would be hard to plan, not impossible. A woman could very well have the flexibility to meet up. I just think it would be difficult.
 

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Discussion Starter #397
I've just hung out on boards where there was a lot of cheating talk and not enough sex talk, and remorse isn't something I've seen a lot of there, but of course, the forums attract people who have problems more than people who don't.
It just doesn't fit...I'm not saying he couldn't justify cheating because I've taken the sex life for granted and low priority, I'm saying he's had integrity and standards. Also, I'm not the type to take that lightly, so it's hard for me to wrap my brain around a person justifying that behavior to themselves.

Does that make sense?

People have integrity and standards and a moral code. Or they don't. If they do, then surely they have remorse? Remorse for breaking their own moral code?
 

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It just doesn't fit...I'm not saying he couldn't justify cheating because I've taken the sex life for granted and low priority, I'm saying he's had integrity and standards.

People have integrity and standards and a moral code. Or they don't. If they do, then surely they have remorse? Remorse for breaking their own moral code?
I think a moral code and integrity is on a scale, not an either/or situation. And as for remorse for breaking their own moral code? People can justify anything if they want it bad enough.

Gently, you are being incredibly naive when it comes to your husband having opportunities for cheating. His traveling as much as he does is a cheater's paradise.
 

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I'm saying he's had integrity and standards.
Remember this, he is not the same person right now and he does not think of you the same way that he did. Who knows if it will ever return to what it was? He probably did treat you well when he cared what you thought but once his thoughts towards you shift in his mind, maybe he starts acting with 'integrity' towards someone else.

People have integrity and standards and a moral code. Or they don't. If they do, then surely they have remorse? Remorse for breaking their own moral code?
People are relative and capable of explaining their own actions to themselves in a way that allows them to live with what they've done. Take me, for example, I've done things that I knew that I would regret even as I was doing them. Only at the time, that didn't matter. I'm basically a 'good' person, I have a moral code, I have standards, but I was selfish, thought only of what I wanted and deluded myself into justifying doing what I wished.

Do I have remorse? Of course! I have spent three times as long regretting it as I spent doing it. Would I do it again? I'd rather die. None of that changes the fact that I did do it and this is what I deserve.

Neither of you are stable right now, he's living in a dream land and you are desperately trying to make sense of what is happening. Maybe he's cheating, maybe he's depressed, maybe he's going through a mid-life crisis. Whatever it is, it is important that you recognize he chose to withdraw from you, blame you and hurt you instead of draw closer to you during his time of struggle.
 

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I was given some advice once from my mother actually. I was going through a lot of stress the first time with my now ex-husband. I wanted to know the answers, I wanted to know the truth.

She said you always find the answers it just takes time. I have to admit she was right. Answers come to you in many forms if you pay attention and listen. There is no rush, you don't have the answers you need yet and that's ok. Spyware does help speed things up a bit ;)

Go on your holiday, why not. You seem calmer than an anxious wreck to me. Also, people on here seem to freak out about STD testing. I'm not sure why, most can be pretty easily cured, and if not then it's a bit late.

This is just another chapter in your life. No matter what you will learn and grow from this experience. Enjoy your holiday and your friends. Observe your husband, just don't look for hidden meanings in things you will go nuts.
 
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