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he is absolutely incapable of anything resembling emotion unless it's anger.
^^This is what would motivate me to start a full-on investigation as to whether or not he is cheating. I mean, he's being mean and abusive to you. You're not sure what is motivating him to behave this way, he won't tell you, so why don't you look into this to determine if there is another woman????

Okay, it COULD be something else ... but why not rule out adultery right now? I genuinely don't think this about you not being at the "snooping stage." This about you wanting to know where you stand, as his wife, and to at least determine if it's NOT another woman. I mean, c'mon, he doesn't give a good cahoot where you are? You need peace of mind. You are not going to have it unless you start digging into this.

SERIOUSLY.
 

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At this point you are training your daughter to stay with a man when he treats the wife like dirt. That’s the example you are showing her.

Since you don’t like the way he’s disrespecting you - a better example to set for your daughter would be to end the marriage when a spouse disrespects you and stops honoring you.

have an honest conversation with him and let him know he’s harming the whole family with his crappy attitude toward you - and you aren’t gonna take his crappy attitude anymore!

work with that counselor to learn what a healthy boundary looks like.
 

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Discussion Starter #225
Well keep your chin up. You are handling this your way. I do think you need to do some kind of snooping. But it is completely possible he isn't cheating but just feeling trapped or unhappy with life. It is not ok for him to be taking this out on you.

I think I'd be tempt to EVERY single time he treats you poorly just look at him and say I will not be treated this way. Then state what it is he is doing like being overly critical, cussing, trying to place blame. tone of voice or what have you. Then leave. You can leave the room or the house. Middle of making dinner doesn't matter. Just remove yourself.

If it was close to bedtime go to the bedroom and lock the door. When he wants in say 'no I don't think we should be in the same room and I'm in this one you need to choose another.'
YES to the trapped. I know he has said in the past that he feels that way, so that is definitely a possibility.

I like the idea of saying "I will not be treated this way" or simply removing myself or something similar.
I am also wondering if I am imagining some of the "cold shoulder" being directed at me...So while I thought the night before last he was being rather mean towards me, the next morning when I mentioned it to my daughter, she didn't think it was directed at me, and in fact thought he acted pretty decent in general. I was surprised that was her take on things.

So now maybe I'm LOOKING for it and SEEING it when it's not really there or aimed at me?

I will say, last night he suggested we go out to eat (our county is in phase 2 reopening) and they had a TV on, and he could just not help himself to watching the news and he kept getting angry at the news, as it was all about the pandemic. I actually suggested he ought to stop watching it since he was getting so worked up, but it was like he was unable to look away. He is so OVER the pandemic, if it gets brought up in conversation he immediately rants.
 

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Discussion Starter #226
Don’t stop talking to him. Whatever the reason is, talking will at least make him not forget that you are there. The key is to not make accusations. Using “I feel” statements puts the ball in his court. If he’s depressed it will show him that you care and may help him to eventually open up. If it’s something else then he will know you are aware of changes in his behavior and it will force him to remember that you have feelings. Maybe that will force him to be honest with you.
So are you suggesting that I use the phrase "I feel" or not? Sorry, I'm having trouble following. He does not appear concerned about my emotions AT ALL. I sat with my son in the ER the other night till 3am and not one time did my husband ask me how I was holding up. He didn't hug me, he did NOTHING but bring some items we asked for up to the hospital and then tell me I should get some sleep when I got home. He's concerned about our son, keeps asking me if I have had any updates, but not once has he inquired about me. (granted, I haven't asked how he's doing either)

Maybe that's part of the problem, I'm just so damned good at handling things and that bothers him too? LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #227
Are you cheating on him?
UM. NO. NEVER. I always remove myself from situations that could lead down that path. I never want to cheat, therefore I am careful about the situations I put myself in. His first wife cheated on him, and that has been a big thorn in our marriage that we have had to deal with the fallout of.
 

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Discussion Starter #228
Ok...I definitely understand, and I think you SHOULD mull that over and find an answer...I will get back to you about it...;)
Why am I not setting boundaries and Why am I accepting being treated as if I am of so little value?

I definitely need to set some boundaries, but I will say that my confidence level is pretty low. That's why I started dressing nicely and actually putting on makeup recently. Here is my thought process: I'm trying to give him the space he has requested to work through "this" all the while getting my ducks in a row so that when I do hit that wall, or something gives, or I'm done being patient, then I'll have the divorce papers to show him that I am dead serious. I'm not going coming to a gun fight with a knife.

NOW, why I do I think I can't set boundaries for now? For the "space" time. I like Anastasia's idea of stating "I will not be treated this way" or simply removing myself from the situation.

I am also starting to think that I am hyper sensitive right now and interpreting some of his behavior as being aimed towards me when in fact, maybe he's just angry in general. He is giving most of his friends the cold shoulder as well, he is emotionally withdrawing from just about everyone. It's as if he can't handle anyone needing anything from him on an emotional level. If we talk work, he's absolutely 100% his normal self, but that's because there's no emotional crap associated with work.
 

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So how is your son doing? Are you allowed to see him now?
Once visits are allowed, suggest your H goes and sees him alone. Let him do some of the lifting in the family. Maybe you handle it all so well he feels like you don't need him.
He is definitely involved in an affair or considering a way out of the marriage though, his behavior all points to one or both.
Stop being so damn available and so apologetic too, (it comes across in your posts). You have to put on your big girl panties and stop worrying about your pain in the ass H, what he thinks, what is bothering him, how he is mean, etc. We told you already if you don't want to piss, get off the pot and investigate. You don't want to do anything suggested here and you are not doing the 180 as you are still very wrapped up in him, what he thinks, says, etc. If you were doing the 180 you would not be engaging with him at all, worried about how he treats you etc. You have decided to go on your own path, so be it.
 

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If you want this situation to change - it’s going to have to be you who changes it.

either approach him head on with calling out his unacceptable behavior or decide you aren’t going to live with his demeanor anymore.

in the end it’s just not right that you and your daughter are living with his bad attitude that makes it necessary to assess everything he’s doing and saying because you two are afraid to call it what it is - really bad treatment from him. I’d tell him it’s got to stop now or it ends the relationship completely.

hopefully you’ll help him understand it’s just not right to treat you so badly.
 

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Discussion Starter #231
If he wouldn’t treat your daughter as badly as he currently treats you that tells you he’s looking for excuses to be angry with you. He’s the only one who knows why that is and he’s likely not going to tell you so that leaves you waiting and watching. In limbo. He’s probably trying to decide what it is he wants to do with his life. Hopefully, this won’t take years (it unfortunately does with some). In the meantime, live your life.
YES, that's my plan and that's what I'm doing. I am living my life, meeting up with my friends, planning weekend trips without him. I do feel like I owe our marriage some time to go through rough patches, no relationship is always rosy, but I can't imagine I would put up with this for years either... it started in March and then really started getting worse in April, and I'm already struggling with waiting and being patient.

I found out some news yesterday that I think might be a catalyst for him. So I'm somewhat afraid for when he finds out. Our business partner, who also worked with his wife for years and have been married longer than we have, they are getting a divorce. I know this because my family is in HER circle of friends. Apparently she filed, she got fed up with him doing his thing and decided enough was enough.

My first reaction to hearing that news was OH ****, my husband will think that's a good idea and leave me too.

How pathetic am I? The person in my family I was talking to at the time said to me, "Maybe you will be the one to decide you don't want him?"
 

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Discussion Starter #232
Marriesnatlanta hit on what I have been wondering. Does he maybe think you are cheating when he is out on the road and he's doing the 180 no you?
I thought about this. But he said there was nothing I could do to "fix" what was wrong right now.
Is there a way to tell if my car has a tracking device on it? Since we quit location sharing on our phones and he said he didn't need to know my location, AND THIS IS REALLY opposite from who he normally is, I was wondering if he already has a tracker on the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #233
You need to understand, that if cheating is not a dealbreaker for you… Not sure why in the world that would be, but whatever… That it will be a greenlight for him to be a serial cheater, and he will do this to you for the rest of your life because you let him. He already brought others into your marriage previously, so you have already set that precedent. Is that the kind of husband you think you deserve?


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I don't know if it's a deal breaker or not, it depends on the circumstances etc.
And He did not bring others in to our marriage by himself, we discussed it, we planned it, we dabbled in it together. Like I said before, I would have been content to leave it as fantasy, he wanted to try and make it happen. AND some of that was ALL for me. I'm not going in to details. I'll save it for my "tell All" book later. LOL
 

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It’s really odd you are always on the defense with him. Who cares if he tracks your car? Why aren’t YOU tracking HIM? It’s HIS behavior that’s changed!

you’re so busy in the defense mode - that you haven’t even considered what actions you could be implementing to be in a more proactive/offense position.

you’re going to have to help yourself... he’s not going to magically change because you’re being too passive!
 

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Did he mainly invite men into your bedroom activities? Is that was you were saying?

did he ever give the impression he enjoyed men in your marriage?
 

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Discussion Starter #236
Why are you here....?

Why am I here on this site? To try and gain insight, advice, moral support etc.

Let's be honest here, if my marriage was in a good spot I wouldn't be here, which means for 24 years, through all the ups and downs, it never got to this point to where I was at a real loss for how to deal. That means, that I was content and happy for most of 24 years with some tough patches, but those were and seemed manageable and something we could work through.

For 24 years, I have been one of this man's most favorite people, needed, wanted, desired, complimented, given lavish gifts, a trusted business partner, encouraged and admired by him etc. Right now you are only getting one tiny view of him and our marriage, not the whole story. I wouldn't be trying to be patient if I didn't think I had something worth fighting for.

That's why I am here, on this site.
That's why I am not ready to snoop and may never snoop.
That's why I am not sure cheating is a deal breaker.
 

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Discussion Starter #237
At this point you are training your daughter to stay with a man when he treats the wife like dirt. That’s the example you are showing her.

Since you don’t like the way he’s disrespecting you - a better example to set for your daughter would be to end the marriage when a spouse disrespects you and stops honoring you.

have an honest conversation with him and let him know he’s harming the whole family with his crappy attitude toward you - and you aren’t gonna take his crappy attitude anymore!

work with that counselor to learn what a healthy boundary looks like.
I am showing my daughter not to throw in the towel right away on a marriage and life built together over 24 years. His bad behavior has only been around the last 4 months give or take... (I mean, we weren't perfect before, and we used to bicker about stupid stuff, but the past several years have been on a high note, I thought)

AND at some point, if nothing changes, I will have had enough and I will be showing her how to handle that as well. I have a plan, it includes drawing up divorce papers.

I think that's an excellent idea, I will ask my counselor how to set boundaries for the meantime. Thank you for that suggestion.
 

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Discussion Starter #238
So how is your son doing? Are you allowed to see him now?
Once visits are allowed, suggest your H goes and sees him alone. Let him do some of the lifting in the family. Maybe you handle it all so well he feels like you don't need him.
He is definitely involved in an affair or considering a way out of the marriage though, his behavior all points to one or both.
Stop being so damn available and so apologetic too, (it comes across in your posts). You have to put on your big girl panties and stop worrying about your pain in the ass H, what he thinks, what is bothering him, how he is mean, etc. We told you already if you don't want to piss, get off the pot and investigate. You don't want to do anything suggested here and you are not doing the 180 as you are still very wrapped up in him, what he thinks, says, etc. If you were doing the 180 you would not be engaging with him at all, worried about how he treats you etc. You have decided to go on your own path, so be it.
Thanks for asking about my son. He called yesterday and sounded much better vs. Friday when he called. I handed the phone around to my husband and daughter so they could say Hi etc.

Husband has mentioned separation, so yes, he is considering a way out of the marriage.

I am apologetic, it's pathetic. I agree. It's part of my personality, I am a people pleaser, always have been.

I thought I was doing the 180? Just because I'm changing my actions doesn't mean I'm not still worried about what's going on. I'm going to re-read my list I wrote on my phone right now and see if I am following it:

Stop Chasing - check (I haven't asked him to do anything with me & I stayed out Friday & Saturday)
Stop Texting/Calling - he's initiated almost all the texting unless it's work related
Stop saying I love you - check
Have/get a life - check
Be Mysterious/short answers/Vague - working on this one, did not tell him what I was doing Friday or Saturday afternoon (normally I would give him a run down)
Be Unpredictable - check - I need to work on this one more, some of this is about opportunity
Look Good/Be Confident - working on this one as well

Also, as for having my husband go see the son alone to do some of the lifting in the family, my husband appears to be in a really crappy place right now, is that the healthiest thing for my son? My husband actually said to me, "doesn't everyone think about suicide?"
 

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Discussion Starter #239
It’s really odd you are always on the defense with him. Who cares if he tracks your car? Why aren’t YOU tracking HIM? It’s HIS behavior that’s changed!

you’re so busy in the defense mode - that you haven’t even considered what actions you could be implementing to be in a more proactive/offense position.

you’re going to have to help yourself... he’s not going to magically change because you’re being too passive!
I care if he's tracking my car because how the hell can I be unpredictable and mysterious and vague if he knows exactly where I am all the time?

Also, we invited both.
 

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Discussion Starter #240
If you want this situation to change - it’s going to have to be you who changes it.

either approach him head on with calling out his unacceptable behavior or decide you aren’t going to live with his demeanor anymore.

in the end it’s just not right that you and your daughter are living with his bad attitude that makes it necessary to assess everything he’s doing and saying because you two are afraid to call it what it is - really bad treatment from him. I’d tell him it’s got to stop now or it ends the relationship completely.

hopefully you’ll help him understand it’s just not right to treat you so badly.
You are correct.
I need to work on setting this boundary NOW, not put up with it till something gives.
 
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