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Discussion starter · #41 ·
These responses are helpful. I am pretty down about things today due to something he did that I was really clear about being an upsetting thing for me. I NEVER set big boundaries or tell him I would prefer he not do something...but I did in this case and he misled me to believe he wasn't doing it then dropped it on me the day before. So...I'm not in a great place.

That said, if we have sex it is at my initiation. Usually once a month or once every 6-8wks when I start to feel like I can't live without some intimacy. The rest of the time it's like he's kissing his mom goodbye. Not that I don't love EVERY kiss....but I miss the passion.

I don't think my husband would chase me if I was 110 lbs with DD boobs. I have no idea why. He had an affair with a woman who is a lotta notches down on the hottie poll in comparison to me. I was SHOCKED. She was everything he says he hates. Very strange.

If you have tactics or ideas...for enticing him, lay them on me. Because we've been on a weekend away in a hotel and he wasn't interested.

Deejov: I have tried cute underwear, being flirty, flashing him (which he used to love), I've been known to bring home toys and lotions and you name it. I will watch porn. I will do anything. He tends to laugh at me. Recently I got him to come to bed, and I was lotioned, very ready to go, and he spent an hour screwing around with the pets with a laser light. I was trying to get his attention to no avail. Problem with your suggestion is that if I don't initiate or even beg...he could live without it forever. I think he'd be happy with a blow job and go to bed (he works nights). And he'd never want anything else.

I have learned through different conversations that he's kind of like my teenagers. He thinks that I'm trying to manipulate him when I'm not. I'm crazy busy. I have a life. I DO NOT play chess games in my head regarding how to get him to do what I want. Unless you count cute underware, and trust me, they're a visual treat for him....hanes are more comfortable. He thinks I'm manipulating him when I'm not even thinking about him...I'm making a mental list of what everyone needs. Ridiculous. I'm an "on the table" sort. I'm all "I miss you....I'd like to...._______" and he laughs and turns on the tv.

I could try to manufacture deadlines...all of that...I feel like I'm just this ridiculous joke. I mean...I get it...I'm no Duck Dynasty or Nascar race, or lawn mower racing show...but wtf does this guy EVER get horny like he used to?

AAAHHHHHHH. Last night, I was so upset I didn't sleep in our room. It was his night off. I didn't want to discuss anything or argue. I just...hid out. And tomorrow I'm going to leave early to take the kids to breakfast. Then work. That should give him some time to watch porn or whatever he does.

....I guess I am resentful. He once told me he thinks I use sex as a strange way of getting back at him for the affair. Like I don't want it for the right reasons. I want to punch him. I want get him to understand....our kids are older, I have less responsibility, I have more time now during the day when the kids are gone. I feel like a teenager whose parents are out of the house. What the heck is wrong with wanting to get it on? I think...OMG Let's have a few hours together and I'll make you a sandwich!!!!

I'm 36. WTF.

So...advice so far:

~Don't ask for it.
~Make it a deadline thing, or a rush.
~Don't let him think sex helps me feel needed or wanted

One more question...how did I end up being the guy in this relationship. I don't want to talk it over. I don't care if you want it soft and sweet or want to throw down a blanket in the woods or in the living room. I don't care if you want it rough or not. I'm ready to go. Congrats. I finally have the time to set the sex kitten inside myself that YOU created...free.

And you're not interested.
 
Why was he in IC?
What were his alleged motivations in having an affair.

The three advice points, I haven't given those much thought. All I can say is I make it as clear as I can these days that I am ready to call it quits -- that the ties that bound me previously (not disrupting D10, D13's world) cannot be done -- I feel like staying is literally killing me (dramatic, perhaps, but how I feel), and that it is worse that our daughters only know how adults can flush their life down the toilet with fear and loathing, instead of live a life driven by love and seeking joy. It probably helps my wife feels the sane way.

Btw, just coming to TAM and doing IC have put my emotions in motion. There are bigger ups and downs now, but I think that is just a good sign something is changing and finally being felt. Still, it's difficult.
 
I don't understand keeping him from seeing you need sex to feel needed and wanted. It's not like the his fire is still burning and you are just trying to fan the flames by being all mysterious and hard to get.

It seems like your marriage is in the worst crises ever -- perhaps more than during the affair? -- and so maybe being blunt about your needs/requirements that he must engage at some level for you to not just walk away, seems necessary.

WTF do I know, though. Except to say I am way past wanting to court her on a daily basis just in case it might be the right thing at the right time for her to reluctantly let me "mount" her for awhile (i feel like a dog sometimes). She must engage in the things that will address her anger/hurt/resentment -- like I am doing in myself -- or, what's the point.


Do you know why he is so resentful?

Have you spent time in the CopingWithInfidelity sub forum?

Btw, I don't ask for it now, except once every four months. But I emphasize in between that I WILL be having a full and healthy relationship, one that includes intimacy, eventually -- it's up to her if it will be with her.
 
If you make sexual overtures and he doesn't respond, how do you react?

Have you made it explicitly clear that you want to be desired?
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Sky,
When he left the kids and I suddenly due to the affair, I put the kids and I into therapy. He decided to go to when he realized he wanted to come home.

His motivations for the affair are fogged up. He said he hadn't felt happy in 10 years, that he and I did nothing but fight. Pretty much anything you can imagine to justify it....even when the evidence shows that these are kind of crazy things to think.

I think...he was almost 40, looked around at how tied down he is, and how his friends are/were all divorcing and had a ton of freedom, and here was this crazy woman with no kids, no responsibilities...and it just happened. He acted completely different.

I think he has a hard time not procrastinating. And he just zones out regarding emotions and regarding doing what he should. I wish he had stayed in counseling. I went for a while...and didn't have great results. I'm a "doer" and sitting there with a guy asking "why are you with him? Why do you love him?" I realized it wasn't helping. At some point during that...I had been laid off and couldn't find work, so used a full scholarship and went back to school. Will finish a BS in Psych next semester. It took me 3 years, now for a masters or psy-d. Not sure.

I worry...if I can't figure out what to do in my own marriage, how will I ever do this job (a job my H doesn't really respect). I really found my counselors awful over the years. I think I can do better.

My kids have started being very vocal about their thoughts on me and their dad being together. They think I should finish school and leave. My kids have said many times that their dad doesn't deserve me. Or commented on how much calmer things are when he's not here. I HATE that. Because I do love him and I wish he could invest in being happier. But I don't see it happening.

When he asked to come home we voted, and let him home. I wish I knew why he wanted to come home.
 
Creek, read your post again.

Why do you love him? Why did you let him come home? Why didn't you ask him?

Maybe read up on codependency....
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
I love him for a million reasons. I let him come home because he's my guy and I love him. He was hurting and vulnerable and needed me.

I was co-dependent for years. I'm not now. Though...I won't do anything to lose custody of my kids. I'm a 7 day a week mom and that is that. Anything (barring physical abuse) I might take...if it meant not going to bed under a roof without my kids. Today...I give a lot but I do for me too. I'm not co-dependent anymore. I do feel sorry for my husband and what he is losing out on. I have my own goals now. I don't worry so much about what others think (except for my adviser HA).

I don't know how anyone explains love. It's just love. I love him. When I close my eyes...I just do. I understand that when I need him most (like I did when he left-I was ill) I just...need to be strong for myself and not expect help...but I still love him. If I end up leaving...I'll still love him. I will never ever ever want to see him again because I'll love him. Lucky him I hope.
 
True that about love, but is love blocking out more or other feelings?

There is a practical aspect of self preservation and self sanity in all this. How much do feelings about someone else are worth relative to self preservation and sanity?
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
I probably do use love as a band-aid for other things. But...I am very dependent on him right now. When he decided to come back, I had a full time job and a house to rent lined up. I was ok. I didn't even take child support from him for 4 months he was not helping.

I'm the sort who worked 3 part time jobs to have money to buy our house.

But right now I'm in school. I want to be able to support myself if he leaves again. So I'm workng towards that goal.

I just HATE not being wanted sexually.

I am able to put everything aside and just get naked and enjoy that time together. I think it goes a long way to healing a lot of things. It's so enjoyable. Why does it have to be such an issue? I don't get it.

Right now I'm pretty sad and upset over this weekend. So I am not being the huggy kissy snuggly woman. People here said not to seem too needy so....maybe that's a good thing. But...I live every day knowing he cheated because he didn't feel loved (according to him) so I try to show that love all the time. Who knows what the could shoulder will do.
 
I probably do use love as a band-aid for other things. But...I am very dependent on him right now. When he decided to come back, I had a full time job and a house to rent lined up. I was ok. I didn't even take child support from him for 4 months he was not helping.

I'm the sort who worked 3 part time jobs to have money to buy our house.

But right now I'm in school. I want to be able to support myself if he leaves again. So I'm workng towards that goal.

I just HATE not being wanted sexually.

I am able to put everything aside and just get naked and enjoy that time together. I think it goes a long way to healing a lot of things. It's so enjoyable. Why does it have to be such an issue? I don't get it.

Right now I'm pretty sad and upset over this weekend. So I am not being the huggy kissy snuggly woman. People here said not to seem too needy so....maybe that's a good thing. But...I live every day knowing he cheated because he didn't feel loved (according to him) so I try to show that love all the time. Who knows what the could shoulder will do.
With someone who doesn't like being "snuggly", does it seem like your violated if your husband might want to put his arm around you in the spoon position or something? Not all the time, but some of the time.
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
I normally am very snuggly. not in a strange forceful way...but I'm a physical person.

He just really hurt my feelings and messed with my head Fri/Sat. So...at the moment I'm taking space to think. This is new for me. But...I feel like if I address the issue...it will hurt more. Because I tried and it did and continuing that is not good. So for the moment I'm taking space. For probably the first time ever. He knew how I felt...I actually told him if he did this thing he wouldn't come home to me. He knew I couldn't leave...so here I am. But...part of me is broken...again.

He used to be more into sex. But he has never been a verbal guy. I had to guess a lot.

Very sad actually.
 
It's very hard to figure something like this out when you are forced the play the guessing game. It would be so much easier if your husband would open up and be honest about why he withholds sex.

You say you love him, you don't know why but you just do. I find it interesting that for such a smart woman as yourself, you weren't able to come up with a list of his qualities that you admire, a list of things he does that make you feel loved, something about him, anything. Instead your reply was, I just do.

People fall in love because there is a strong element of endorphins and pheromones and a chemical kick that happens when we click with someone we also find attractive and makes us feel loved. people stay in love when the behavior that prompted that mixed bag of reactions continues AND behavior that hurts us is infrequent enough that we recover.

Your husband hasn't done much these last several years to show his love, nor to reinforce your love for him. being financially dependent is NOT going to produce love, and you know this. He has done some major things that would kill love, hasn't done anything to encourage love... And yet here you are.

Youre a psych major and yet haven't been able to stick with therapy. I think that is because you are being asked to look inside yourself with clarity and you refuse to do that. If you do do that, what you will find is something that will topple this house of cards you've built around your marriage.

People post stuff on this forum and open their hearts to get clarity. You are trying to figure out why he isn't loving you when you should be trying to figure out why you love a man who treats you this way.

You are a doormat. You congratulate yourself for being low maintenance but you are just being a door mat. You have no boundaries, you put up with, ignore, and forgive behavior that would send the most starry eyed person out the door. If you don't respect yourself enough to put your foot down, how can you expect your husband to treat you better?
 
If you make sexual overtures and he doesn't respond, how do you react?

Have you made it explicitly clear that you want to be desired?
In hardcore LD Stage IV cases any moves that would result in action are generally met with absolute apathy and immediate and blatant rejection. Seems that their concern for not putting out overshadows and prevents any rational discussion potential.

You really have no good way to react that is constructive and conducive to improvement. It is that simple.

It is a no win situation for either partner.
 
In hardcore LD Stage IV cases any moves that would result in action are generally met with absolute apathy and immediate and blatant rejection. Seems that their concern for not putting out overshadows and prevents any rational discussion potential.

You really have no good way to react that is constructive and conducive to improvement. It is that simple.

It is a no win situation for either partner.
Exactly. It's a no win situation. I bet he really enjoys the way he can control her.

Tell me, how many husbands would be advised to stick with a wife who cheated on them, then became extremely LD during reconciliation? Answer, not a single husband would be counseled to try this or explore that to get her interested in sex again.
 
Lol I actually feel like I need to defend myself. I was willing to do it in the mini-van in a public...area. I've made him pull over to do it in the woods. I'll put porn on and molest him in the living room in the middle of the day. He works nights and I will make him breakfast and put him to bed with a BJ. Tuck him in and go about my day. I don't really have anything I'll turn down in the bedroom. Just please...please come to me when I have brushed my teeth and I'm not in hard core sleep mode an hour or two before the kid's school bus comes.
You don't need to defend yourself. He's your husband and sex is a need. If he's not willing to meet that need, that's on HIM...not you. Sure their can be some resentment due to some previous rejection that he got, but most men's libido is not silenced by resentment like it is for women.

Basically, we're still willing and able to go even though we've been hurt. I won't touch the cheating because it sounds like that isn't central to the problem here.
 
Stage IV LD is all about control.... And the only way you deal with control is with more control... Classic negative feedback loop.
john117,

Is "Stage IV LD" a term you are coining, or are there stages defined somewhere in a book, etc.

Either way, it seems useful to think in such terms. My wife and I's LD/HD (err, 0D/xD) troubles have gone through stages, or at least phases.
 
Tell me, how many husbands would be advised to stick with a wife who cheated on them, then became extremely LD during reconciliation? Answer, not a single husband would be counseled to try this or explore that to get her interested in sex again.
AP, your earlier post had much wisdom. But, this question makes me uncomfortable. I hope no one uses it to refocus this thread on discussions of alleged gender biases here on TAM.

Personally, at this point, I think the sex issues are the least of OP's relationship problems. The bigger problems are what have to be fixed -- IF she wants to try to save the marriage and build a better future with him. I have an opinion on whether that is a worthwhile endeavor, but am mostly keeping it to myself at the moment because I don't think me saying it will help OP; it's that and nothing more.

Btw, I am, so far, sticking with a wife who cheated (EA) and became LD during reconciliation, and have been counseled here on TAM to try this or that to get her more interested in sex again. So, it happens. (The counseling part, not so much her actually getting more interested. ;))
 
It is my own definition :) but one should strive to quantify what LD means in terms of some relatively standardized scale.

Stages I and II are likely the twice a week vs four times a week type issues fixable by the usual books, seminars, MC, and the like. III would be the once a week vs once a month or minor power struggles but still salvageable while IV would be anything from merchant marine up, intentional issues, etc.
 
AP, your earlier post had much wisdom. But, this question makes me uncomfortable. I hope no one uses it to refocus this thread on discussions of alleged gender biases here on TAM.

Personally, at this point, I think the sex issues are the least of OP's relationship problems. The bigger problems are what have to be fixed -- IF she wants to try to save the marriage and build a better future with him. I have an opinion on whether that is a worthwhile endeavor, but am mostly keeping it to myself at the moment because I don't think me saying it will help OP; it's that and nothing more.

Btw, I am, so far, sticking with a wife who cheated (EA) and became LD during reconciliation, and have been counseled here on TAM to try this or that to get her more interested in sex again. So, it happens. (The counseling part, not so much her actually getting more interested. ;))

Thank you for pointing that out, you are absolutely right. I don't want this or any thread to devolve into gender bashing. I was unaware of your situation, so please disregard my post.

FWIW, double standards really get my goat and I am quick, perhaps too quick, to call them out.
 
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